AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Carnith]

I’ve seen ard boys. 
Bravery 5 and their attacks went to 1” 3a 4/3/-/1

[Arkahn]

7 minutes ago, Carnith said:

I’ve seen ard boys. 
Bravery 5 and their attacks went to 1” 3a 4/3/-/1

From ? 

[Carnith]

20 minutes ago, Arkahn said:

From ? 

They are currently b6 and 2a 3/3/-1/1

[Boggler]

I think he is asking the source. Things don't look good for the Ironjawz...

MBMK still has utility with 12" move and fly. Obviously due to Mighty Destroyers. I don't think I would ever take even one Gnashtoof. I'd use the points saved on more Brutes! and more GG's until we see their new instructions that make them 4a / 4 / 3 / - / 1...

We'll have to see what is going on with the faction when the book comes out.

Edited September 5, 2021 by Boggler

[Vastianos]

1 hour ago, Carnith said:

I’ve seen ard boys. 
Bravery 5 and their attacks went to 1” 3a 4/3/-/1

I would also like to know the source, as that is a pretty big nerf.

[Carnith]

I was at my local games workshop, I asked if we could look at it. Manager was interested as he plays ironjawz as well so he was game to open his ardboy box. I looked at it and pulled up the app to check the differences. I obviously can't take a picture as it was in the store with their employee standing over me.  

[Boggler]

On 9/3/2021 at 8:57 AM, Malakree said:

Welcome to the destruction forum. Where desperate optimism is the only reason anyone still plays the grand alliance.

I imagine him opening the box full of excitement then going a full 180 of emotion in to the biggest disappointment of his GW career. It would have made for a great video.

The above quote is the still in full effect.

[Arkahn]

7 hours ago, Carnith said:

I was at my local games workshop, I asked if we could look at it. Manager was interested as he plays ironjawz as well so he was game to open his ardboy box. I looked at it and pulled up the app to check the differences. I obviously can't take a picture as it was in the store with their employee standing over me.  

do the same with gore gruntas ahah

[Malakree]

11 hours ago, Carnith said:

I’ve seen ard boys. 
Bravery 5 and their attacks went to 1” 3a 4/3/-/1

Holy gods, what on earth could have convinced them that any Ironjawz units need LESS bravery..? hopefully we get a corresponding points drop to ~75 for 5.

Big one I want to see is the Footboss warscroll. If he still has a 3+ save it suggests the riptooth fist is functioning like a shield, if not then at least kruelboys seem to be bonkers.

[PlayerJ]

The tomes on preorder next week.
Looks like MB keeps strength from victory ability, and Warchanters have Killa beat option still.

[Boggler]

The final countdown begins.

Maybe the lower bravery points to a MB ability like the Kruleboyz one that only allows one model to flee? It might be how people think that taking the foot MB would make him relevant again? He can keep his 3+ for narrative Riptoof purposes of course.

[Beliman]

On 9/4/2021 at 11:20 AM, Malakree said:

Would you trade a Mawkrusha for 2 Killaboss Gnashtoofs and 100 points in change?

That's an interesting question.

I never saw a Killaboss (or two) as a big thread, but I was always scared to phase a crusha. Maybe this 4+save will change that feeling (or maybe not).

[Celadoor]

On 9/5/2021 at 12:15 AM, Carnith said:

I’ve seen ard boys. 
Bravery 5 and their attacks went to 1” 3a 4/3/-/1

A guy on the Orruk Warclans Facebook group claims you've been proven wrong, and you opened a first edition box by mistake.  Can you provide any additional detail.  What did the box look like?  Was it just one weapon option? what was the weapon called?  Did you see the new stats on the build instructions, like we've seen in the leaks for the Maw Krusha & Brutes? anything like that. 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Celadoor

[Malakree]

3 hours ago, Beliman said:

That's an interesting question.

I never saw a Killaboss (or two) as a big thread, but I was always scared to phase a crusha. Maybe this 4+save will change that feeling (or maybe not).

2 killaboss on gnashtooth are.

• 20 wounds with a 3+ save.
• 8 attacks on 3+/3+/-1/2 that do 2 mortal wounds on a 6 to hit instead.
• 8 attacks at 3+/3+/-2/2

Meanwhile the Mawkrusha is

• 18 wounds with a 4+ save
• 9 attacks on a 3+/3+/-1/2
• 8 attacks on a 3+/3+/2/3

Statistically there isn't much difference between the two. If I wanted a direct comparision of what I'd take instead it would be a killaboss with stabgrot and 20 Gutripperz. You get a 3+ on the killaboss, he gets the lookout sir, there's 40 wounds of gutripperz which can only have 1 model flee from battleshock and it's 45 attacks which do mortals on 6s.

[Carnith]

1 hour ago, Celadoor said:

A guy on the Orruk Warclans Facebook group claims you've been proven wrong, and you opened a first edition box by mistake.  Can you provide any additional detail.  What did the box look like?  Was it just one weapon option? what was the weapon called?  Did you see the new stats on the build instructions, like we've seen in the leaks for the Maw Krusha & Brutes? anything like that. 

It was the new box. New style and everything. It’s just one weapon type no matter if you go two weapons or big weapon. 
 

also it’s hard to open a first edition box when I saw them take it out of their shipping box and go “oh new red boxing!” I’ve been in the hobby when they were in their old box, then the super boring all white box. 
 

also in new boxes, weapons aren’t named. It’s just pictures of what they look like. 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Carnith

[Beliman]

25 minutes ago, Malakree said:

2 killaboss on gnashtooth are.

• 20 wounds with a 3+ save.
• 8 attacks on 3+/3+/-1/2 that do 2 mortal wounds on a 6 to hit instead.
• 8 attacks at 3+/3+/-2/2

Meanwhile the Mawkrusha is

• 18 wounds with a 4+ save
• 9 attacks on a 3+/3+/-1/2
• 8 attacks on a 3+/3+/2/3

Statistically there isn't much difference between the two. If I wanted a direct comparision of what I'd take instead it would be a killaboss with stabgrot and 20 Gutripperz. You get a 3+ on the killaboss, he gets the lookout sir, there's 40 wounds of gutripperz which can only have 1 model flee from battleshock and it's 45 attacks which do mortals on 6s.

Not sure that a comparison like that would be fair. Even between the big blob+killaboss, their role on the battlefield has nothing in common. Profiles are a bit misleading too: one has a lot of bodies, the other has a big base, one can fly and has Monstruous Rampage and Hero Actions, others need their 10" move Hero near them, etc...

 

[Gitzdee]

Also if u kill one killaboss u get half the numbers on the other 10 wounds. Comparing apples and oranges.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Iksdee

[Warmill]

54 minutes ago, Carnith said:

It was the new box. New style and everything. It’s just one weapon type no matter if you go two weapons or big weapon. 
 

also it’s hard to open a first edition box when I saw them take it out of their shipping box and go “oh new red boxing!” I’ve been in the hobby when they were in their old box, then the super boring all white box. 
 

also in new boxes, weapons aren’t named. It’s just pictures of what they look like. 

RIP my ironjawz at this rate, I love them for feeling like a smashy bashy army not a load of pillowfists. Hopefully the warscroll has some tasty abilities but I'm not sure it'll make up for the feeling of da boyz bouncing off chaff. At least in the 1.0 ironjawz book you could have them dishing out 7 or 8 attacks each to make up for the mediocre profile.

[Malakree]

42 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Not sure that a comparison like that would be fair. Even between the big blob+killaboss, their role on the battlefield has nothing in common. Profiles are a bit misleading too: one has a lot of bodies, the other has a big base, one can fly and has Monstruous Rampage and Hero Actions, others need their 10" move Hero near them, etc...

I don't disagree, the question was originally asked if I would rather have a Killaboss on Gnashtooth or an MK if his save was dropped to a 4+. That's the comparision on a pure raw stats, with the 2 Gnashtoof being 100 points cheaper and the big block being 5 points more expensive. Yes they fill different roles and have different purposes but in statistical isolation you would take the block of boys everytime. It has so much more board presence in the current 2+ unrendable save era.

32 minutes ago, Iksdee said:

Also if u kill one killaboss u get half the numbers on the other 10 wounds.

The mawkrusha would profile instead and can't be in two places at once. The point was that statistically the MK is just worse than 2 Gnashtoofs which are 100 points cheaper.

12 minutes ago, Warmill said:

RIP my ironjawz at this rate, I love them for feeling like a smashy bashy army not a load of pillowfists. Hopefully the warscroll has some tasty abilities but I'm not sure it'll make up for the feeling of da boyz bouncing off chaff. At least in the 1.0 ironjawz book you could have them dishing out 7 or 8 attacks each to make up for the mediocre profile.

God I hated it so much, with the exception of the klaw boss. I got dice cups which have exact numbers of dice just so that I could do the dice maths quickly. On the plus side Brutes look devastating now.

[C0deb1ue]

Out of honest interest, why are the brutes so devastating now? they literally got a single rend added to two weapon profiles so I am not sure what changed apart from Ard boyz being changed to no rend multi-attacks. I guess that pushes brutes into the limelight more but they are hardly massively different.

Edited September 6, 2021 by C0deb1ue

[Scurvydog]

3 minutes ago, C0deb1ue said:

Out of honest interest, why are the brutes so devastating now? they literally got a single rend added to one weapon profile so I am not sure what changed apart from Ard boyz being changed to no rend multi-attacks. I guess that pushes brutes into the limelight more but they are hardly massively different.

Rend is a big deal though, but it is not just one weapon, the Gore Choppa also got rend 2, even in units of 10 you will have 2 gore choppas with reach 2", 3 attacks with rend 2 dmg 2 base is a pretty good infantry weapon.

[C0deb1ue]

4 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

Rend is a big deal though, but it is not just one weapon, the Gore Choppa also got rend 2, even in units of 10 you will have 2 gore choppas with reach 2", 3 attacks with rend 2 dmg 2 base is a pretty good infantry weapon.

I get that, I just don't think it's particularly "devastating". Yeah its a good change and they were severely lacking before (especially vs ard boyz) but it's hardly game changing. Anyway still need the rest of the info.

[SunStorm]

[insert caveat of not knowing all the rules yet]

Seeing as Brutes were often considered a waste of points in previous editions compared to Ardboyz, it's got to be good if the suspected changes mean we see more brutes being used right?

 

[Scurvydog]

1 minute ago, C0deb1ue said:

I get that, I just don't think it's particularly "devastating". Yeah its a good change and they were severely lacking before (especially vs ard boyz) but it's hardly game changing. Anyway still need the rest of the info.

Well agreed, guess it is just hanging on to the one good thing shown for Ironjawz so far, otherwise no information has gotten out. The other rules really need to be good to make up for that 4+ save on the Mawkrusha, oh dear...

[C0deb1ue]

1 minute ago, SunStorm said:

[insert caveat of not knowing all the rules yet]

Seeing as Brutes were often considered a waste of points in previous editions compared to Ardboyz, it's got to be good if the suspected changes mean we see more brutes being used right?

 

I guess yes, if the plan is to make changes that give brutes a role rather than just making other units worse so Brutes look better.