Lets Chat: Idoneth Deepkin

[Richelieu]

1 hour ago, annarborhawk said:

I'm a bit confused.

The command point leaks tell us we can use command points to use the command abilities of non-general heroes.  Yet the wording of  ID hero command abilities is: "If x is your general, then......"  This wording seems to imply that such command abilities CANNOT be used with command points on non-general heroes. 

Seems very significant with the Tidecaster. I'd like to use her command ability to reverse the order of the Tides of Death (great with Futhan) yet have Volturnous as my General (so I can give 3x units +1 attack on turn 2 in light of tidecaster ability).

The expectation is that there will be a clearly worded rule in the book that covers this case since it is quite common.  Currently it's just a spoiler without the requisite details.

[robinlvalentine]

2 hours ago, annarborhawk said:

I'm a bit confused.

The command point leaks tell us we can use command points to use the command abilities of non-general heroes.  Yet the wording of  ID hero command abilities is: "If x is your general, then......"  This wording seems to imply that such command abilities CANNOT be used with command points on non-general heroes. 

Seems very significant with the Tidecaster. I'd like to use her command ability to reverse the order of the Tides of Death (great with Futhan) yet have Volturnous as my General (so I can give 3x units +1 attack on turn 2 in light of tidecaster ability).

Important to note that the Tidecaster actually doesn't have a command ability - it's is just an ability that happens to require her to be the general. Which presumably means it also won't require a command point. 

[Austin]

2 hours ago, HadrielCaine said:

It sure was wasn’t it @Skyel... released 11 hours before first dice roll...

11 hours...wow.  I got my five boxes today and the thought of assembly, painting, and then being coherent enough to play in 11 hours seems a bit impossible.

[mmimzie]

5 hours ago, Namiriel said:

You take 2 formations :Ankhelion Corps and... Royal Court(?) 

Anlhelion core is alot more than a bunch of eels. Which is exactly what you said. You'd need a turtle and a shark.  Which is 600+ more points than the units you listed. 

 

5 hours ago, annarborhawk said:

I'm a bit confused.

The command point leaks tell us we can use command points to use the command abilities of non-general heroes.  Yet the wording of  ID hero command abilities is: "If x is your general, then......"  This wording seems to imply that such command abilities CANNOT be used with command points on non-general heroes. 

Seems very significant with the Tidecaster. I'd like to use her command ability to reverse the order of the Tides of Death (great with Futhan) yet have Volturnous as my General (so I can give 3x units +1 attack on turn 2 in light of tidecaster ability).

We will just have to wait and see. 

[Austin]

Obviously any list making right now is subject to change, but a two drop list I've been thinking about is:

• Volturnos
• Tidecaster
• Soulscryer
• Morsarr x6
• Morsarr x3
• Ishlaen x3
• Ishlaen x3
• Leviadon
• Allopex
• Royal Court
• Akhelian Corps

The Corps is much better than I thought with the multiple reroll per turn ability.  The question is if its worth the 140 Allopex tax.

edit- I particularly think this list is subject to change bc it is exactly 2k.  Today's preview makes it look like points are going to get much more granular (at least increments of 5s vs 10s).

 

[annarborhawk]

33 minutes ago, robinlvalentine said:

Important to note that the Tidecaster actually doesn't have a command ability - it's is just an ability that happens to require her to be the general. Which presumably means it also won't require a command point. 

Good point.  I’m guessing there will be no way around the restriction then.  Which is fine.  Reversing the tides of death SHOULD come st s great cost. 

[Jak Shadow]

8 hours ago, annarborhawk said:

Good point.  I’m guessing there will be no way around the restriction then.  Which is fine.  Reversing the tides of death SHOULD come st s great cost. 

Should be fine with Tidecaster as general so long as CPs can be used on Volt's command ability. I would definitely run that for the flexibility. But even that might not be an option. 

Some armies with multiple command abilities may do much better than others from this new rule. 

[robinlvalentine]

2 hours ago, Jak Shadow said:

Should be fine with Tidecaster as general so long as CPs can be used on Volt's command ability. I would definitely run that for the flexibility. But even that might not be an option. 

Some armies with multiple command abilities may do much better than others from this new rule. 

Does mean at that point you've got Reavers as battleline rather than eels, which will affect some lists 

[Jak Shadow]

1 hour ago, robinlvalentine said:

Does mean at that point you've got Reavers as battleline rather than eels, which will affect some lists 

Yes - that would be the price you would have to pay.  It may be worth it for the optionality, if it even works at all. At least Namarti are not quite the tax that some battle-line are.

[HadrielCaine]

14 hours ago, Caladancid said:

11 hours...wow.  I got my five boxes today and the thought of assembly, painting, and then being coherent enough to play in 11 hours seems a bit impossible.

I did also win the speed painting competition at the event and there were two of us for the eels!

[Praecautus]

Knocking a couple of 1k lists together before spending the cash. I fancy having Akhelians as the backbone of my army - don't fancy thrall hordes. Any thoughts on the following 1k lists.

Thinking Briomdar for the deep strike ability.

List 1 

Akhelian king

Soulscryer

Soulrender 

Thralls (10)

Reavers (10)

Ishlaen guard (3)

Ishlaen guard (3)

King and guard form a hammer and anvil while rest teleport in using the briomdar ability.

List 2

Volturnos

Soulscryer

Thralls (10)

Reavers (10)

Morsarr guard (3)

Morsarr guard (3)

Volturnus and his guard wreck face while the rest teleport in to mop up.

 

So far I have not got any models and just wanted input before spending the cash ? Thanks

[Luke1705]

Played my first deepkin game last night with 24 guard

 

 Big V

Sea Eidolon

6 Morrsarr

6 Morrsarr

6 Ishlaen

6 Ishlaen

10 Eternal Guard

 

Was playing against stormcast. Totally forgot my re-roll to charge, which wound up being crucial, but not as crucial as that teleporting max unit of liberators. As it was scorched earth and I misdeployed, he did wind up winning, and I made multiple movement errors because I’m a noob from 40k. Movement seems similar but the finer details are very different!

 

One big thing I noticed is that the Stabby Eels hit like a TRUCK! And the Shieldy ones are super durable. Wound up playing through turn 4 and it was clear that I would have tabled him on turn 5. Still wouldn’t have won due to my deployment error but oh well. You live and you learn. Loving the eels though! And Volturnos is a BEAST! May have to pick up another regular king (or even another Volturnos - you can do that right?). I sort of want to try out 18 Morrsarrs and only 6 Ishlaen, but I think their durability is pretty important.

[mmimzie]

1 hour ago, Luke1705 said:

Played my first deepkin game last night with 24 guard

 

 Big V

Sea Eidolon

6 Morrsarr

6 Morrsarr

6 Ishlaen

6 Ishlaen

10 Eternal Guard

 

Was playing against stormcast. Totally forgot my re-roll to charge, which wound up being crucial, but not as crucial as that teleporting max unit of liberators. As it was scorched earth and I misdeployed, he did wind up winning, and I made multiple movement errors because I’m a noob from 40k. Movement seems similar but the finer details are very different!

 

One big thing I noticed is that the Stabby Eels hit like a TRUCK! And the Shieldy ones are super durable. Wound up playing through turn 4 and it was clear that I would have tabled him on turn 5. Still wouldn’t have won due to my deployment error but oh well. You live and you learn. Loving the eels though! And Volturnos is a BEAST! May have to pick up another regular king (or even another Volturnos - you can do that right?). I sort of want to try out 18 Morrsarrs and only 6 Ishlaen, but I think their durability is pretty important.

Morrsarr could replace your ishlaen of you ran nautilar and uses the barrier spell to reproduce the effect of the ishlaen  ignore rend, but still giving you some punch. 

 

6 hours ago, Praecautus said:

Knocking a couple of 1k lists together before spending the cash. I fancy having Akhelians as the backbone of my army - don't fancy thrall hordes. Any thoughts on the following 1k lists.

Thinking Briomdar for the deep strike ability.

List 1 

Akhelian king

Soulscryer

Soulrender 

Thralls (10)

Reavers (10)

Ishlaen guard (3)

Ishlaen guard (3)

King and guard form a hammer and anvil while rest teleport in using the briomdar ability.

List 2

Volturnos

Soulscryer

Thralls (10)

Reavers (10)

Morsarr guard (3)

Morsarr guard (3)

Volturnus and his guard wreck face while the rest teleport in to mop up.

 

So far I have not got any models and just wanted input before spending the cash ? Thanks

List one doesn't have enough punch.

[Luke1705]

It’s a nice idea. Ignoring -1 rend is nice. The problem is that my sea eidolon already has so many powers that he wants to cast. Both spells are kind of just watered down mystic shield. I think it just means I go with the cover spell from the lores of the deep. Turn 1 I can go mystic shield on the Ishlaen and have it be almost as good.

 

The bigger problem, though, with trying to boost the durability of the Morrsarr directly is that they’re glass cannons. Making them plastic cannons is better but still not what I want tanking

[mmimzie]

2 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

It’s a nice idea. Ignoring -1 rend is nice. The problem is that my sea eidolon already has so many powers that he wants to cast. Both spells are kind of just watered down mystic shield. I think it just means I go with the cover spell from the lores of the deep. Turn 1 I can go mystic shield on the Ishlaen and have it be almost as good.

 

The bigger problem, though, with trying to boost the durability of the Morrsarr directly is that they’re glass cannons. Making them plastic cannons is better but still not what I want tanking

Are they glass cannons though really. Ishlaen are only  more durable against enemies with rend.  With the nautilar spell the ishlaen are again only more durable against rend -2/3 right??? 

 

So glass cannons I mean the same number of them would stand up against witches or other similar killy units will both fair about as well, and the +1 to save on the charge  is only to make up for lack of cover.  Not to mention hitting harder is kind of like more defense in that the opponent has less stuff to kill you with. 

 

The list I'm running and i feel it's close to if not the one om gonna stick with and start running in tournaments is:

 

King

Tidecast x3

Soul scryer

Aspect of the sea

 

9x morrsarr

3xishlaen

3xishlaen

 

2x 5x heartrenders

 

Ionrach

 

And its basicly I make the morrsarr more cranky by giving several units -1/2/3 to hit.  Changes I might make is running 2x6 morrsarr and 1 ishlaen 3man. Which makes for a list with a similar concept of psuedo durable morrsarr. But my list has a little tidecaster mortal wound factory and karnarii to charge units and tie them into combat to protect my morrsarr more.

[valenswift]

5 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

Volturnos is a BEAST! May have to pick up another regular king (or even another Volturnos - you can do that right?)

No he is a unique character, you can only have 1 in your list

[Martainn]

Hi guys sorry for the long post but i have a upcoming battle with my full idoneth list against a stormcast list.

Its a sort of king of the hill campaign were u need to beat the current leading list in order to take the top until you get beat and that list takes the top.

The list i have to beat is a stormcast Hammerstrike force using:

- Lord celestant with hammercape

- 3x prosecutor (were 2x 5 retributors spawn near using hammerstrike)

- 10x judicators

- Knight- venator

- 2x Concussor

-2x 5 liberators

-steelhearts champions

i might have forgot something, dunno. but thats the main of his list. 

My list im using is the following.

Fuethan enclave

- Tidecaster general, Steed of tides (reversing the tides making 1st turn run/charge and 2nd everything attacks first )

- Aspect of the Sea

- 6x Morsarr eels (attack variant)

- 3x Morsarr eels (attack variant)

- 1x Allopex

2x 10 Reavers (battleline)

Gloomtide shipwreck

The idea of the list is that i hope to teleport eidolon as close to his army in my 1st hero phase to get as much units within 12" of his tsunami -1 to hit debuff. Then probably mystic shield him cause he could get some spanking on the next opponent turn being that close. Also on my 1st turn i plan to move 14"+ d6 "run eels and possibly even charge turn 1. then unleash the living hell on most of his valuable units if he doesnt bubble everything.  The best case scenario would be me killing his prosecutors turn 1 so he cant deepstrike the retributors near him using the battalion and has to use the longer distance deepstrike.

The Fuethan enclave lets everything attack first on the turn 2 so i can unleash more dmg on him and hopely cripple his army enough turn 2 to assure my victory. Problem is will the eels do enough dmg turn 2 because they dont have the -2 rend 2 dmg from the charge? Any tips on this? i also cant wait to charge if i get close enough turn 1 cause i cant let them get charged if i dont get priority turn 2 and be screwed anyway.

the fuethan enclave also helps this list cause it gives all mounts (so eels, allopex) reroll or 1's reroll to wound (not sure which of those it was) which should up the dmg of this list a little.

I took the allopex for this reason also, i know the eels are better but i like the model and with the reroll wound rule he could be potiontionally better with his 1 attack that has -2 rend 3 dmg both turns not only on charge.

Any tips on the list, tactics or playstyle would be most welcome since he has won 4 challenges already and i rlly want to be the one beat him and take the title

 

thx in advance guys i know its a big post

[Reezark_SP]

Hey everyone I'm in need of serious help.

I'm fairly new to AoS and Deepkin is the race that I decided to dive into (sorry for the pun). At the moment I only have enough models to play 1000 point games but I'm building towards 2000. I have 4 games under my belt and so far 3 of them ended with me being totally annihilated from the table and the other one I technically won due to objectives but if the game went for 1 more round I may have been tables as well. In the 3 games I got crushed my enemies was Nighthaunt, which seemed to be able to 1st turn charge me with Spirit Hosts and Mourngouls were able to cause somewhere in the lower teens worth of mortal wounds to just about everything at once. The 2nd game was against a shooty Stormcast list where I kept rolling 1s for my run and charge rolls I actually didnt even reach him until turn 3 by which time I was shot to pieces and he teleported fresh units in. The 3rd game was against Sylvanith where I felt every unit he had simply outclassed mine is just about every way. I dont recall all of the rules for that army but just about all the time he was immune to rend, rolling 2+ armor saves or 3+ saves with rerolls, causing auto mortal wounds, self healing, caster healing, and rezzing. 

The only game I won on a technicality so far was against KO, and even then it was a tough match. I'd really appreciate some help or some advise. At the moment these are the models I have to work with:

Aspect of the Sea
Tidecaster
Lotann
20 Thralls (I run them as 2 groups of 10)
3 Spear Eels.

The Aspect and the Eels do ok. I'm beginning to think Aspect of the Sea really is for bigger games as he's got a lot of nice support but in 1000 there is not much to support. I will field him as Aspect of the Storm next time I play. Lotann has never done anything of note. The Thralls rarely benefit from his buffs because they get wiped out of the wind blows the wrong way and his own attacks have been petty meh. The Tidecaster has been pretty good, and I've tried her with different spells from the Lore, but haven't quite fallen in love with any in particular just yet. The Thralls have been a joke so far. Everything that touches them wipes them out.  Most of my enemies have 2-3 wounds each so the Thralls have very rarely gotten their bonus to attacks or damage. 

As as 2000 points go I suppose I can build towards a foot army or a mounted eel army. I kind of like the benefit of the battalions so right now I'm looking at this:

Morphann
Namarti Corps
Soulrender (General)
Aspect of the Sea
Aspect of the Storm

Battleline
Thralls x10
Thralls x10
Reavers x10
Reavers x10

Other
Leviadon

The 2nd list I'm considering is as follows:

Fuethan
Akhelian Corps

Voltrunos (General)
Tidecaster
Aspect of the Sea

Battleline:
Spear Eels x3
Spear Eels x3
Shield Eels x6

Other:
Leviadon
Allopexes


Of course the 3rd option is to copy the list that did fairly well at the GT that was posted about a few pages ago lol!

Anyway, I'd really appreciate some advise on what I could be doing wrong and what lists I should build towards since above I've described the kinds of armies I go up against. Thank you all!

[Luke1705]

I think you’re right that the Sea Aspect (or any aspect) is better at 2k than 1k.

Also, not a huge fan of the Leviadon. Prefer what the Sea Aspect’s spell does more. It’s 800 points tied up in 2 models for the Aspect and the Leviadon, when only 1 is really needed. And out of the 2, I’m picking the Aspect 10 times out of 10

[Sactownbri]

I like Fuethan, Akelian core with the Tidecaster as the general and a core of Namarti with a Soulrender. I haven’t been getting my points back for my Aspect of the Sea so I dropped him for now. Here’s what I’ve been playing:

Tidcaster General

Soulrender

Lotann

Volturnos

2x Thralls

1x Reavers

3x Morrsarr Guard

Leviadon

1x Allopex

Akellian corp

its 2k even. I keep Lotann with the reavers. Render with the thralls and then push the Corp towards the enemy with Volturnos in tow. I’ve flipped the tides most games to good effect. And the rerolls from Fuethan on the flood tide plus the reroll per phase has been tons of fun. I still have a lot to learn about proper positioning on timing but it’s coming along.

[mmimzie]

11 hours ago, Sactownbri said:

I like Fuethan, Akelian core with the Tidecaster as the general and a core of Namarti with a Soulrender. I haven’t been getting my points back for my Aspect of the Sea so I dropped him for now. Here’s what I’ve been playing:

Tidcaster General

Soulrender

Lotann

Volturnos

2x Thralls

1x Reavers

3x Morrsarr Guard

Leviadon

1x Allopex

Akellian corp

its 2k even. I keep Lotann with the reavers. Render with the thralls and then push the Corp towards the enemy with Volturnos in tow. I’ve flipped the tides most games to good effect. And the rerolls from Fuethan on the flood tide plus the reroll per phase has been tons of fun. I still have a lot to learn about proper positioning on timing but it’s coming along.

You need 2-4 separate units of akeliean guard to qualify for the corp.

Edit: which obviously you have via your formating ^.~ clearly <.<
 

13 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

I think you’re right that the Sea Aspect (or any aspect) is better at 2k than 1k.

Also, not a huge fan of the Leviadon. Prefer what the Sea Aspect’s spell does more. It’s 800 points tied up in 2 models for the Aspect and the Leviadon, when only 1 is really needed. And out of the 2, I’m picking the Aspect 10 times out of 10

That's pretty fair. I think thier are a few list that wouldn't mind the constancy of the turtle. More so if you take a tidecaster as your general and run fuathan.

[Keggers]

 

Originally, I wanted to run the Morphan / Render route but I'm probably the slowest painter ever and I've recently brainstormed some Akhelian lists.. My most recent incorporates two tidecasters so I can take advantage of the new edition of magic and because I feel dispels are important. Items aren't fleshed out yet. 

Volty General

2 Tidecaster

2 Allopex

3x3 Morrsar

1x6 Ishlaen

Leviadon

Akhelian Corp

Comes out to exactly 2k and 110 wounds. 3 drops. 

8 hours ago, mmimzie said:

You need 2-4 separate units of akeliean guard to qualify for the corp.

He's got three units. The way he wrote his list looks like he's only taking a unit of 3 but I'm pretty sure he meant 3x3 units. 

[mmimzie]

2 hours ago, Keggers said:

He's got three units. The way he wrote his list looks like he's only taking a unit of 3 but I'm pretty sure he meant 3x3 units. 

lol thanks. Yeah it was abit focusing <.< figured it was just three eels hanging out in a unit.  

 

2 hours ago, Keggers said:

Volty General

2 Tidecaster

2 Allopex

3x3 Morrsar

1x6 Ishlaen

Leviadon

Akhelian Corp

I feel like if you fanagled this some, you should be able to fit in a royal court, andm aybe to keep 2 tide caster you could run ionrach as it lets you bring an extra tide caster. You stilll get to run 2 drops. 

Also things that are stupidly strong:
Fuethan tidecaster uses command ability to flip the tide -> that new at the double to make your eels move 20 inch" and then charge turn 1. Then have a few kings use thier command abilities to buff up a unit???

Wonde if the rule of 1 will be in effect or not for command abilities, and how stacking will work.  Even then you could bring vulturnous and a regular king and just plow threw stuff on turn 2 with your high tide.  9 or 12 Morrsarr guard with 4 attacks each...... mmmmmmmm thats pretty fantastic. 

Edit: so in the nagash faction focus they said you have use your command abilites more than once....  meaning with just a regular king and a big morrsarr squad you could poost thier attack up to crazy levels..... 

That said i think our rules might have been made with some of this in mind as all our command abilities say "if this model if your general blah blah.  So for instance you can ahve a tide caster general to flip the tides, and then ahve a king on turn 2 buff the ****** out of your morrsarr.  Which seems fair as the power of extra attack on a big unit of morrsarr is relatively bonkers lol.  This also isn't to forget taht the eels themselves have that d3 damage attack that would also be swining 3 more times, and then the boring standing attack also attacking more. Seem like a big boost in damage out. Even with out a battalion your turn 3 can just go absolutely insane  but  also any battalions you bring can also be another +1 attack on turn 3 if you just horde up your command pts.  

Thinking about it i guess they really did make this army around the new addition where you could go the route of that god tier turn 3. 

[Reezark_SP]

Hey all I made a couple of tweaks to the lists I posted earlier. I am pretty happy with how the Akhelian list looks on paper. I wound up removing the Aspect of the Sea in favor of adding a tidecaster general, an akhelian king, and 3x10 reavers as battleline. Now it looks like this:

Fuetan
Aklhelian Corps

Tidecaster (General)
Akhelian King

Reavers 3x10

Morrsarr 2x3

Ishlaen 1x6

Alloplex

Leviadon

My other list, the Namarti list, also looks pretty good but I'm torn between Aspect of the Storm + Akhelian King OR Leviadon + Voltrunos. At the moment this is what I am looking at:

Morphann
Namarti Corps

Soulrender (general)
Aspect of the Sea
Aspect of the Storm*
Akhelian King*

Thralls 1x20
Thralls 1x10

Reavers 2x10

*Could be used as is or be replaced by Voltrunos and Leviadon.

 

[Drofnum]

11 minutes ago, Reezark_SP said:

My other list, the Namarti list, also looks pretty good but I'm torn between Aspect of the Storm + Akhelian King OR Leviadon + Voltrunos. At the moment this is what I am looking at:
 

AoStorm is going to do more damage.  If you have the points AoStorm+Volturnous would be the best bet for damage dealing.  The leviadon can soak up some damage but your Namarti are probably as good at it with models getting returned.