TheKingInYellow Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 I think Prince V at 480 is a good value compared to the standard VLoZD at 440? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 From the wordings of the preview and reviews, gravesite summoning is not mix and match like old spell summoning. You don't put points in a reserve pool and buy qhat you need when you need it, you buy units up front, and deploy them into reserve to bring on via gravesite summoning later. So you cant just bring on dire wolves or spirit hosts instead if you realize during the game that the grave guard arent needed. ...................................................... I'm eyeing a grand host army based on the first cohort. Nagash, 4 archai, 2x40 spearletons, 20 guard (perhaps deploying from gravesites), and two hidden necromancers to round out nagash's spell list comes out to exactly 2500. Prob not competitive - too slow, too few units, too much weight on nagash's shoulders, etc. But might be fun to run if the first cohort's rules are any good, and a nice opportunity to highlight the big guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmir Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Looks like we'll be getting quite a few 2 digit battalions in our book. Almost feels like they forgot a 1 at the start of those numbers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailessine Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Any way to make the knight of shrouds into a viable list? Its a damn fine model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kaven5lave Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Now, where the hell am I going to get 10 Dire Wolves from? Out of stock online. Fenrisian Wolves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Knight of shrouds will get rules allowing its use in any death army out of malign portents, at least in games using the malign portents rules. And if you're using those rules you'll probably want him. Otherwise, he's better left to the dedicated soulblight lists anyway, so inability of legions to field him outside of MP isnt so much of an issue. Fenrisian wolves are much nicer models than dire wolves, though also much pricier. Dire wolf absence in the online store is likely short term only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageBoss Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 1 minute ago, 5kaven5lave said: Now, where the hell am I going to get 10 Dire Wolves from? Out of stock online. Fenrisian Wolves? I would take Fenrisian Wolves even if the regular Dire Wolf models were in stock. They are MUCH better models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kaven5lave Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Thanks for the replies, does anyone know if they’d fit onto same oval bases? Would they be a problem at tournaments you reckon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 7 minutes ago, Xasz said: The battalions are surprisingly cheap. Exciting! Very curious to see what they do now. 7 minutes ago, AverageBoss said: Just shy of 500 points for the named VLoZD is WAY too much imo. Vhordrai's charging WDR without Quickblood is .043. With Quickblood it's .071. VLoZD's charging WDR with his own command ability is .047, without it he's .033. Breath of Shyish is also TREMENDOUSLY better than Pestilential Breath. If you think the VLoZD is priced well but Vhordrai is overcosted I really don't know what to say. Vhordrai has a vastly better melee profile and ranged attack. His command ability is *really* powerful but only if you take another VLoZD with him. Taking him but not making him your general means you get a massive flying beatstick and still get your artefact and command trait somewhere else. You also don't lose the opportunity cost that comes with the VLoZD being your general and needing to use his own command abilities on himself. You can still get access to the excellent command abilities of a regular Vampire Lord or Coven Throne, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Fenrisian and dire wolves will fit on the same bases. Fenrisians are bit shorter, but not by so much that any tourney would care. Again tho, rather pricey for large dog hordes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWilddog Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Just now, 5kaven5lave said: Thanks for the replies, does anyone know if they’d fit onto same oval bases? Would they be a problem at tournaments you reckon? They are basically the same size so the bases are fine. Since they are GW models they should be golden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kaven5lave Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Cool. Well they’re twice the price basically. I’ll have a think, would be nice to pick them up with my book on Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 19 minutes ago, Undeadly said: Don't forget how the radius of grave sites; You have to deploy the whole unit within 9" while also staying away 9" away from an enemy unit; that can tricky with units like Skeletons or Dire Wolves which rely on big numbers to keep up the damage. A good point for sure. Luckily we have 4 sites to work with! 11 minutes ago, Sception said: From the wordings of the preview and reviews, gravesite summoning is not mix and match like old spell summoning. You don't put points in a reserve pool and buy qhat you need when you need it, you buy units up front, and deploy them into reserve to bring on via gravesite summoning later. So you cant just bring on dire wolves or spirit hosts instead if you realize during the game that the grave guard arent needed. Good call, although I can't find the actual official wording anywhere. I probably just missed it! Aside -- does anyone know where the new Coven Throne warscroll is? I can't find it anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Havent seen official wording on gravesite summoning, just goint by previews and reviews that all talk about setting units aside during deployment to summon later, which implies you purchased those units before rather than during the game. Final wording could be different, tho. We'll see soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drofnum Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 34 minutes ago, swarmofseals said: A good point for sure. Luckily we have 4 sites to work with! Good call, although I can't find the actual official wording anywhere. I probably just missed it! Aside -- does anyone know where the new Coven Throne warscroll is? I can't find it anywhere. They are all updated in my app it looks like. Have to delete the old ones and redownload though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrankar Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 With the grave sites, didn't you have to have a hero in the 9" range to summon something out of them? Or was this rule specific to one of the legions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 From previews/reviews, gravesite summoning works as such. 1: set a summonable unit in your army aside during deployment 2: at the end of any of your movement phases, any of your heroes may select one of the units you set aside and a gravesite within 9" of the hero. Set up the chosen unit entirely within 9" of the (center of the) chosen gravesite, and more than 9" away from enemy models. No die roll, no fuss, just have to get a hero in range of a gravesite that is simultaneously out of range of any enemy units. There is a supposedly a separate ability that allows your general to pull the same trick with one of your previously destroyed summonable units with the use of a command ability, but since that ability almost certainly takes reserve points, you might as well have just purchased a second unit to start and deployed it via the normal gravesite summoning ability. Sacrament gets a rhird ability that is the same as the "bring back unit" one, except triggered by an enemy unit dying instead of at the end of your movement phase, but since that will again almost certainly require reserve points, and require a long series of events to alighn in the proper order, it will likewise probably be just worse than just taking another unit to deploy by the normal gravesite method. That's based on paraphrasing from reviews, tho, so actual text could be different in the particulars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 I won't link for fear of breaking rules, but all rules from the book are leaked in the current main AoS thread on 4chan's /tg/ board, including points, scrolls, allegiances, & battalions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smucreo Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Really? Going to check right now thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 I'm digesting now. The sacrament formation offers less protection to arkhan than I might have hoped, just a save bump. But it's cheap, and an extra cast from each wizard is great. Then again, i thought sacrament wizards got an extra extra extra spell from the new lores, but no it's just the one., so rules of one might get in the way a bit. Still, decent. Nagash's formation is the most pricey, but it's a doosey. Maximized deathly invo from nagash to the formation's deathrattle units, and a 3+ look out sir to pass any wounds (including mortals) from nagash to the morghast unit. The spells are a bit less impressive than I'd hoped (at least in terms of direct damage and buffs, the necro lore has a bunch of good debuffs), so nagash doesnt get quite as big a boost out of them as one might have imagined, but the formation protection is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyMammoth Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Point costs are a colossal let down. Its insanely hard to value blood knights at 260. I can't imagine a world in which they are usable now. Nagash continues to be way overpriced. His new spells might make him playable to an extent that you could now have an enjoyable game with him, but that point cost is going to keep him far from competitive for sure. Grave Guard are also way too expensive. They are actually playable now with their incredible regen but you will have to baby sit the hell out of this unit. Most armies can burn them down easy and you'll lose way too many points when that happens. The only way I would play them would be to summon them, then have a Balewind push them forward about 3 1/2 inches to the point where their charge is guaranteed. Its a double edge sword though, they could have increased things currently at a good point cost. Skeletons and Spirit Hosts are starting to look exceptional. Corpse Cart is a great tool to have now. Black Knights are pretty cheap for what they can now do. Overall it looks like they just said - lets just leave the points as-is and see what happens, then we'll fix it in GH2018. If they were releasing some model updates, you can be sure that there would have been some point cuts to boost sales. Its possible they had already considered this in the GH2017, and that's why Nagash got cut ... but Blood Knights went up 20 points ... so why would that have happened if they knew they were about to cut their regen? For this reason it seems like they didn't want to get into playtesting too much and just said - lets wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 11 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said: Its insanely hard to value blood knights at 260. I can't imagine a world in which they are usable now. Even with all the numbers I've shown, it stuns me that you still think this. I can understand you not liking them, but I can't understand how you could think they are unusable. I don't understand how you could think that "Black Knights are pretty cheap for what they can now do" and think that Blood Knights are unusable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperkinako Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 So from all the leaks I'm list building already, how about anyone else? Currently planning a Nagash The First Cohort list as been looking for an excuse to get him on the battlefield. Nagash Supreme Lord Of The Undead (800)- General2 x Morghast Archai (220)30 x Skeleton Warriors (240)- Ancient Spear & Shield20 x Skeleton Warriors (160)- Ancient Blade & Shield10 x Black Knights (240)Mortis Engine (180) The First Cohort (160) Total: 2000 What do people think? worried it needs at least one more hero, don't know if the Mortis Engine is beneficial. Will likely expand eventually and switch Nagash for a Mortach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Blood knights look somewhat iffy to me out of the box, but there are options to stack on them. The new special character formation, in a legion of blood army, gives three units of blood knights +1 attack, outflank, and rerolls to hit if within 15" of the board edge they outflanked from. I dont know if that makes them good or not, but i could see it being playable. Shame they're not battleline for blood, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 19 minutes ago, Hyperkinako said: So from all the leaks I'm list building already, how about anyone else? Currently planning a Nagash The First Cohort list as been looking for an excuse to get him on the battlefield. Nagash Supreme Lord Of The Undead (800)- General2 x Morghast Archai (220)30 x Skeleton Warriors (240)- Ancient Spear & Shield20 x Skeleton Warriors (160)- Ancient Blade & Shield10 x Black Knights (240)Mortis Engine (180) The First Cohort (160) Total: 2000 What do people think? worried it needs at least one more hero, don't know if the Mortis Engine is beneficial. Will likely expand eventually and switch Nagash for a Mortach. I think the mortis might be overkill on nagadh's casting (though the healing pulse is admittedly great here), 2 wound knights are awkward with the maximized heals, and the skittles want to be max size. Try instead: Nagash, 2 archai, 5 guard, 2x40 spears, mortis Or Nagash, 2 archai, 15 guard, 2x40 spears Or Nagash, 4 archai, 2x10 guard, 40 spears Or my (current) preference: Nagash, necromancer, 2 archai, 5 knights, 2x40 spears Mortis is good, but i think necro for artefact, extra deathmage spell, and vanhels is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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