Malign Portents

[Turgol]

Just a few points:

-Disappointment is expectable, but also lack of miniatures reveal (Nurgle yet to be released). It was hard to get out of the tension between spoiling Nurgle and disappointing people. I do think that a simple phrase such as “rest assured death players, you will be well served” would have at least neutralized the disappointment generated by frustrated death players.

-Site is cool, though without much new. Still a few gems there. Mainly the traveler’s guide.

 

-The campaign and narrative seem to be built around exactly what most of us wanted, which is a major investment on making the realms understandable and experienciable.  Great prospects here.

 

-The big question is, of course, what new armies models can be expected. From the looks of this, I think we can discard aelves 2018. I initially thought that is lead to a new edition and starter set, but I think now it will not be the case (because of the book). What I do think is that we are getting four armies in short/mid term: moonclan, darkoath, ruination Chamber and nighthaunt/deathcast.

[Turragor]

9 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

AoS was on the verge of collapsing the whole company before Matched play came in

This isn't 100% true I don't think.

If I recall right, AoS was still doing better than WHFB as an open and narrative only experience.

Matched Play, however, really did kick things into a gear and I'm glad it did.

[Killax]

1 minute ago, Turragor said:

As I watched the behind the scenes vid (great) I noted that one of the chaps said "[the knights of shrouds] they've been authorised by Nagash to offer the living people of the realms a deal - join us or die" and I think that's cool. Will this follow through into models of any kind? Troops fighting to the death so they don't become undead?

This will follow through with some models. They will likely get the option to trade their soul, live forever and become part of Nagash' armies  

What is also kind of cool is that this too comes from way back Warhammer Fantasy where Skeleton Champions where part of Chaos more or less.

Just now, CJPT said:

Out of genuine interest, do you have a source for that? I remember talking to my local independent store owner prior to the first General's Handbook who said that AoS was already selling really well. Might be a local phenomena, but my understanding was that AoS has always done pretty well.

It has done well with the younger audience regardless. The easier the models are to build the more likely young ones will pick it up. The thing is that there are adults who want to have this game be applied for competitive play aswell. While at the start (and in large part still isn't) designed for.

[RuneBrush]

Just now, Turragor said:

As I watched the behind the scenes vid (great) I noted that one of the chaps said "[the knights of shrouds] they've been authorised by Nagash to offer the living people of the realms a deal - join us or die" and I think that's cool. Will this follow through into models of any kind? Troops fighting to the death so they don't become undead?

I think it's a real possibility that we're going to see this part really pushed through the whole campaign.  Huge swathes of the cities and towns will throw their lot in with Nagash because Death is the antithesis of Nurgle's life - and surely it's better to have everlasting unlife than perpetual rebirth   #moraldilemma

[Killax]

Just now, RuneBrush said:

  #moraldilemma

#mortaldilemma  

[Austin]

I remain hopeful for this release, but I do think once again they overhyped and under delivered a reveal. 

The community site has up a good description of the new book, and it seems like it’s just a campaign book with no new models in it. I mean come on....I have already bought the death start collecting box a while ago...and then realized it was just about all the models available for deathrattle. 

Fingers crossed for Malign Portents, but I’m not on the train yet. Hopefully soon!

[Riluo]

On the facebook page they stated that new models would be released, not just a book after a ton of flaming by people. So at least we have that even if no defined dates were stated yet.

[Ar-Pharazôn]

If we shuffle through all the noise, let's look at the hard facts:  

1) Malign Portents is a book designed to reinvigorate the narrative, provide new rules for all play formats, put the focus on death, and is the setup to a major event. I feel a desire to compare it to Gathering Storm for 40K, a book/book series before something huge( which for 40K was 8th edition and all it had).  

2) The four heralds will all have named charaters in the lore enacting their Grand Alliance's plans. These plans center on Shyish, which we now have a map for, and presumably this will all end with Death rising as a true force. As Elias said, Death will engulf us all.  

3) We have new information on the realms, upcoming short stories which I'm assuming will include more than the ones in White Dwarf, and a behind the scenes which states the heavy integration of lore and rules for Malign Portents.  

4) This event is called Malign Portents, a phrase which means dark or evil signs, an indication this is the, ahem, 'gathering storm', from which something much bigger will arise. We are still in the early stages of whatever GW has planned, and I'm sure they don't want to play their hand too early. 

[silverstu]

I think this looks like its going to be massive over the year and this is just the very start. I agree with those saying its a soft reboot - it looks like they are making the setting darker and bringing in new elements [those "portents sound a lot like 40k stratagems ]- thats from reading the community post and stuff reported on facebook. I think Death will get a lot - I wonder if we will see the new construct zombies like the ones in the corpse cart - apparently models were designed but they weren't released as it was thought they were too much for the Old World setting - they would work in AoS. 

I was of course hoping for more sneak peaks of models of course but Nurgle is next - after that I expect more models. Looking forward to them moving the lore forward - the book sounds a lot closer to the old style  rule book - thats one criticism I have of AoS there isn't a single book which sets out the lore alongside the rules so it can be hard to get a good feel for the overall setting. 

 

Optimistically looking forward to this year and getting my forces of Death back into shape [I can't make head nor tail of the various sub-factions - it looks like a mess]. 

I like the sound of a Death themed boxed set...

[Menkeroth]

 

[Twitch of Izalith]

The website has a lot of cool content for day 1. They have almost nothing to say about Hysh and Ulgu so I think they are still figuring out where tyrion, teclis and malerion fit into things. No elf stuff for a while I think.

6 minutes ago, Caladancid said:

I have already bought the death start collecting box a while ago...and then realized it was just about all the models available for deathrattle. 

You can create a really good looking Grand Alliance army though - get some crypt flayers, Morghast Archai, cairn wraiths, banshees, Nagash, hexwraiths a terrorgheist - there's loads of stuff to work on while you wait for new rules/models. And ok, you might not be winning any tournaments but Death can still be strong in a more casual competitive setting.

people who want to win tournaments should probably stick with Tzeentch or Fyreslayers for now - if they want to win on easy mode anyway  

[Sete]

1 hour ago, Arkiham said:

but the fact of the matter is. the nurgle teasers teased death, nurgle isn't even up for preorder yet. And death players are expecting a full preview of upcoming death models and stuff when the nurgle range which previewed it isn't even released yet.

they're expecting games workshop to completely disregard an entire range of new models and jump ahead in the schedule.

that's so unrealistic it's insane, it's not being dickish it's being real.

You can be real and still be dickish. One thing does not exempt the other.

 

[WarbossKurgan]

4 minutes ago, Ar-Pharazôn said:

These plans center on Shyish, which we now have a map for,

*a map for some of Shyish.

The map is labeled as the Innerland Marches.  it's not the whole realm of death.

[Soulsmith]

I like the short story they have added of Slimux, sort of shows blightwar to be a precursor to all of this, or an intro story to the Malign Portents.

[Turgol]

13 minutes ago, WarbossKurgan said:

*a map for some of Shyish.

The map is labeled as the Innerland Marches.  it's not the whole realm of death.

True, but remember that we now know that only the middle lands of each realm are really fit for living. So those are the only real parts that do count. We have some sort of map of Aqshy, Ghyran, Shyish and Chamon, which should relate to at least a good part of the middle lands of each of those realms. I expect we will end having a map of each of those "known lands" of each realm. That would make the setting much more graspable but still does not preclude expansion, as the setting is clearly evolving and you always have the excuse of expansion of what is known in each realm. 

[chord]

Well since I'm in the states I've yet to read every post but I review the website here are my thoughts (Never played WHFB)

• Highly disappointed they are explaining the mortal realms so much.  I feel like they are ret-conning information they have put out before (need to look at older books after work to verify).   I'd rather they keep it mysterious, not so fully explained.  Sigh...Not needed
• Just one book?  That's a little disappointing was hoping for a series of books like the Realmgate Wars.   But glad it's a book and not just models
• New scenery!  yay,  hope it's priced fairly.  Poor Sigmar, his engineer can only build rickety looking stuff lol
• From the insights video on the Darkoath, sounds like it could be super awesome in the future!
• From the brief blurb on the community website the book sounds like something for everyone.  I fear that like most things now, I'll only ever see the matched play stuff since I can't get a group together to play narrative.  Bummer.

[Infeston]

I am also excited for this narrative book although I expected more. But I really liked the Behind the Scenes video and I hope this does mean that GW will force more on narrative play than matched play, because I find narrative games the most exciting to play.

But I don't like when people in this thread or other threads joke about the people which are disappointed by the lack of models or voice their frustration. Especially if there is such a huge crowd voicing disappointment. I think the people complaining make a valid point and should also be heard. And they also have a right to voice their opinion. 

GW overhyped Malign Portents a lot although they did know the reactions when they hyped up things before. On the other hand GW should have seen the reactions coming. But if you disregard peoples opinions nothing will change in the end. Only if people voice their opinion by saying "I don't like what you did" something can change. 

Other than that I really really like the Travellers Guide video. :-)

[Squirrelmaster]

1 hour ago, Turragor said:

This isn't 100% true I don't think.

If I recall right, AoS was still doing better than WHFB as an open and narrative only experience.

Matched Play, however, really did kick things into a gear and I'm glad it did.

"Doing better than this other product they discontinued" isn't exactly much of an achievement, though.

[Tonhel]

1 hour ago, wayniac said:

I am a little disappointed that it was basically "Cool things are coming, stay tuned" after all of that hype, but it certainly sounds promising.  People seem upset that it was a lot of hype that didn't give anything of any real substance, just more trickles of information.

Yes, that's my problem. I was more hyped when Warhammer community previewed the 4 heroes. So I don't think abnormal that when GW launches a countdown you except something more than the 4 miniatures already previewed and a glimpse of a scenery kit that will be re-released.

1 hour ago, Turragor said:

Just imagine the same scenario but with someone dressed as a member of one of the factions - Ogor, Freeguild general, Nagash, etc - and the mental image intensifies!

 

/Edit - though I have to emphasise, HERE (TGA) it seems like most people are pretty reasonable in why they're a bit let down. No AoS launch meltdowns. Still, I checked reddit (never a good idea for feeling hope for humanity) and had a chuckle.

I am disappointed, but I am still happy with AoS and it's miniatures. There is certainly no anger or whatever, but imo the countdown gave me the feeling that there was a huge preview coming of what we will see the next months. Alas that didn't happen. 

Imagine that the countdown let what we have now and a glimpse of Darkoath unit of a new unit for Death.. or some new artwork of possible new units. The overal excitement would have exploded, Now it didn't.

Although I wouldn't be amazed if GW show something soon, as they are probably aware of the disappointed that is displayed online.

58 minutes ago, Turgol said:

Just a few points:

-Disappointment is expectable, but also lack of miniatures reveal (Nurgle yet to be released). It was hard to get out of the tension between spoiling Nurgle and disappointing people. I do think that a simple phrase such as “rest assured death players, you will be well served” would have at least neutralized the disappointment generated by frustrated death players.

-Site is cool, though without much new. Still a few gems there. Mainly the traveler’s guide.

 

-The campaign and narrative seem to be built around exactly what most of us wanted, which is a major investment on making the realms understandable and experienciable.  Great prospects here.

 

-The big question is, of course, what new armies models can be expected. From the looks of this, I think we can discard aelves 2018. I initially thought that is lead to a new edition and starter set, but I think now it will not be the case (because of the book). What I do think is that we are getting four armies in short/mid term: moonclan, darkoath, ruination Chamber and nighthaunt/deathcast.

It would be fantastic if we would see four army releases for the 4 heroes. Although no new Elves / Aelves is a shame, as my regular opponent will only start an AoS army when there are Aelves... .

2 minutes ago, Infeston said:

I am also excited for this narrative book although I expected more.

But I don't like when people in this thread or other threads joke about the people which are disappointed by the lack of models or voice their frustration. Especially if there is such a huge crowd voicing disappointment. I think the people complaining make a valid point and should also be heard. And they also have a right to voice their opinion. 

GW overhyped Malign Portents a lot although they did know the reactions when they hyped up things before. On the other hand GW should have seen the reactions coming. But if you disregard peoples opinions nothing will change in the end. Only if people voice their opinion by saying "I don't like what you did" something can change. 

Other than that I really really like the Travellers Guide video. :-)

Exactly they overhyped it!

[Turragor]

12 minutes ago, Infeston said:

I am also excited for this narrative book although I expected more.

But I don't like when people in this thread or other threads joke about the people which are disappointed by the lack of models or voice their frustration. Especially if there is such a huge crowd voicing disappointment. I think the people complaining make a valid point and should also be heard. And they also have a right to voice their opinion. 

GW overhyped Malign Portents a lot although they did know the reactions when they hyped up things before. On the other hand GW should have seen the reactions coming. But if you disregard peoples opinions nothing will change in the end. Only if people voice their opinion by saying "I don't like what you did" something can change. 

Other than that I really really like the Travellers Guide video. :-)

I hear you.

I agree that they can and should learn about the project.  I also acknowledge that people can feel how they want about the reveal. They can be disappointed about no models for instance (we get 4 soon and lots more later I understand).

I disagree that the overhyping was solely GW. I disagree that what some are saying (and I'm not talking about TGA here, no one here needs to feel they're being barbed) amounts to 'voicing their opinion'. That's usually - not always - code for 'I ****** type whatever the ****** I want and call it c**ting [edit - this one slipped by the profanity filter! Oops haha!] free speech'. 

So my jokes are against overreactions - yes I make my own judgement where a reaction becomes an overreaction...  but my sense of amusement is my own!

I just fear they'll do what I'd do if I'd made something nice and ppl disliked it due to a hype they'd built themselves and then reacted in such a poorly raised, manchild fashion (again I'm not talking about anyone I've seen on TGA - it's mostly FB where I see some complete lunatics at the moment and it's just ridiculous all over the internet this weather in all sorts of spheres) - I'd not bother sinking resources into this kind of entertaining marketing again.

Luckily! I don't run GW so those that enjoyed this (like me) can hope they continue producing this kind of thing

[Turgol]

Just for the records:

-AoS did quite bad at the start, mainly outside of the UK (whose community pretty much held it alive). GW has hinted several times that the release was a "blunder" and it caused major, very positive changes in the company, which had already started with Rountree.

-It has also been stated that a drastic change of fortunes took place between May-August 2016, with Ironjaws, Sylvaneth and mostly GH 2016. 

-GW's actual, very overheated (and therefore both fantastic and risky) numbers show that it has become a major companion and prospect for 40k in GW's fortunes. So the future seems indeed bright, but it could not have been so. 

[chord]

2 minutes ago, Turgol said:

Just for the records:

-AoS did quite bad at the start, mainly outside of the UK (whose community pretty much held it alive). GW has hinted several times that the release was a "blunder" and it caused major, very positive changes in the company, which had already started with Rountree.

-It has also been stated that a drastic change of fortunes took place between May-August 2016, with Ironjaws, Sylvaneth and mostly GH 2016. 

-GW's actual, very overheated (and therefore both fantastic and risky) numbers show that it has become a major companion and prospect for 40k in GW's fortunes. So the future seems indeed bright, but it could not have been so. 

There is no data to prove it did quite bad.  It's #FakeNews.  Fact is we'll never know the truth.  

[Turgol]

1 minute ago, Tonhel said:

 

It would be fantastic if we would see four army releases for the 4 heroes. Although no new Elves / Aelves is a shame, as my regular opponent will only start an AoS army when there are Aelves... .

 

I think exactly alike: elves (mostly HE) were pretty much the main order army of WHFB. I know people will say: no, it was the Empire! But I am quite sure that if you look at the ranges and sales, HE were even bigger than Empire. Aelves seem to have such an amazing potential to attract new players that not having them is surprising. I guess this is linked to the fact that they had to focus and make SCE the main order faction now, but that GW is aware that aelves are a central endeavor in the future of AoS and will make a major release out of them. That is why I think it will not be 2018. 

[bsharitt]

Glad I'm over here in 'murica so I wasn't awake when it released and all of you on the internet can have all these varied emotions in the immediate lead up and right after release, because it sounds exhausting. Nice to see we'e got the extremes of some people expecting too much and some people white knighting GW a bit much. I'm with you those of you in the middle kind of feeling meh since while I had hopes, my expectations weren't all that high. Feels like GW could use a lesson in hype management. The actual order and ultimately timing they're using to trickle stuff out isn't that bad, but the count down may have been a bad move because it sort of set an expectation that there's going to be something big at the end, not, "Here's a bit more teasers and a the first scraps of info, continue to stay tuned for more". I don't think there would be hardly any angry people here all if everything leading up to today had been exactly the same without a countdown.

Now that we're firmly back in the wait and see phase again, here's to hoping(but not setting my expectations too high) for new death stuff. I'm starting a Path to Glory campaign soon playing death, and a little part of me was hoping that we'd see stuff soon enough that I'd get it in for that.

[Rogue Explorator]

Ok, first the good:

There is some truly awesome content on that website. The (somewhat misnamed, as it implies an in-setting view) travelers guide and other more in depth content on the realms is awesome. Also, the overall presentation and content of the narrative so far, particularly the videos, has been of excellent quality and it looks like there will be a lot more like it incoming, all for free. From a point of the lore being presented and developed more in depth, Malign Portents has seriously delivered and gives big promise.

I quite like that bit where Kelly descripes the story as "the worst possible cursed Halloween you could imagine". This tells me GW might have gotten a feel the role of Undead in a setting that also has Chaos, fokusing on the, borderline campy, elements of spookiness and not try to compete with Chaos for the spots of gross out and spikey evil look (hopefully future vampires will not look like Chaos Warriors anymore).

I really like that some of those old terrain kits might come back as well.

 

The bad:

I really would have liked GW being more concrete about where they are going and what is to be expected. I was not expecting new miniatures, but a lot of questions I did expect to be answered and cleared up are still up in the air. What sort of events can we expect to come with Malign Portents in the near future? How long (roughly) will Malign Portents run? Instead of teasing the old kits over and over, why not say they are coming back? The reveal was hardly emty, but it still does not feel like we actually know any better what is happening than we did yesterday. This leads me to:

 

The ugly:

The expectation management here has been really bad. I think it is pretty clear the harbingers are standalone miniatures and not heralds of soon to be released factions, as the Knight of Shrouds is a Nighthaunt, the Warqueen a Slave to Darkness, both factions that got a GHB 2017 update. GW openly said the GHB gave allegiance abilities to armies that would not see updates any time soon. Yet many now expect those armies the heralds represent from the presentation. I think they are more like the Silver Tower heroes, shows what the faurther future might hold. But by not clearly stating this, GW sets up their customers for disappointment. The handling of Death players and their hopes continues to be poor in this regard as well. Here we sit, with a big major event for Death, but still with absolutely no pointer where our factions are headed. It is very hard to get excited for such an event when I do not even know if I can build up a worthwhile army. I am in the process of building up Deathrattle, but I do not know how valid any units I collect will be later on, I do not know where I can take my models visually, I do not know if my chosen faction will be able to stand on its own anytime soon.

As I have said, I was not expecting any new miniature or army announcement. But I did expect a show from GW that they are conscious of the GAs issues and an aknowledgement that Death players are in an overall bad and uncertain spot. Standing where we are, being told to get excited and take part in upcoming events and nevermind the uncertainty is a bit of a kick in the teeth.

 

The first (and so far only) event announced so far is the assembling and painting of a start collecting. I own all three Death SCs and yet will not take part in this, because I do not want a FEC  force and the other two boxes do not build a cohesive force.

 

As things stand right now, Death players actually have little reason outside of pure hope to get excited or take part yet, even though the event is supossedly all about their GA. And there is not a word in the entire announcement material to aknowledge and aleviate that. And that is a pity, since I want this event to be a success from the start.

 

There is over all a lot of unreasonable reactions floating about, based on overblown expectations. GW is not to blame for that, but the bad vibes are based in real issues and GW could have seen it coming. They give of the impression of just wanting to ignore the existing issues and that does not make for good communication.