Forgeworld in AoS tournaments

[Joshfz84]

So I’ve been trying to find the army I’m  willing to dump a boatload of cash into, I believe I’ve found a couple of prospects. The only catch is one of those armies is Forgeworld, Legion of Azorgh (chaos dwarves 2.0). The problem is the only way for me to play at the moment is a monthly tournament at my gamestore, at least until I start networking and find some people to play with on a regular basis with  at said tournament. I was the wondering the general opinion on Forgeworld armies at tournaments is? If it’s a problem, I’ll go with my first love which would be undead, otherwise I’ll be happy to pound people into the ground with half possessed artillery, while my troops hold the line. 

[GammaMage]

I've been asking around recently, and it seems not many of the AoS players have an opinion, because there are very few Forgeworld models actually playable in AoS at the moment. I know the Mournghul gets played a lot (though not here, as no one plays Nighthaunt) but most of the monsters don't have the right keywords to fit into allegiance-based armies. Those who play 40k, however, seem to think that Forgeworld is pay-to-win, and that people who play Forgeworld models end up not having any friends. (Do keep in mind that due to shipping costs Forgeworld is out of many people's budgets here in South Africa.)

[Joshfz84]

Thanks for responding gammamage, that is a very good point I certainly don’t want to alienate people while trying to make new friends, but the dwarves are priced to move, and while 40k Forgeworld is absolutely bonkers they seem alittle more balanced in AOS.  https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Blackshard-Warhost 

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

As far as I can tell, online and local scene in UK Forgeworld in AoS is in no way controversial so anyone complaining would likely be hung up from 40k. 

Even prior to AoS Forgeworld was well accepted but the important thing to note is that Forgeworld models have had rules in AoS since the start and have been in GW tournaments etc. Actually came seventh I think in the AoS GT the other week. 

So in short, you should have no issues using them locally or in wider community and tournaments. Anyone complaining has no leg to stand on in my opinion. 

[Qaz]

My local area has several players with Mournguls, Dread saurian, plague toads, troll hags and tamurkhan. Unlike 40k, forgeworld units do not make or break the army. 

It really depends on your local area.

[Arkiham]

The bossman @Ben plays them and there is a thread 

They most certainly are perfectly fine in tournaments, in store, where ever

 

[GammaMage]

Note that matched play has maximum limits for artillery units, like they do for behemoths and leaders. That might affect how many of the war machines you can field in a Legion army.

[robertxtrem]

I used a dread saurian in a proper tournament and everyone of fine with it. At the end of the days, it's a model made for warhammer and it's given warscrolls and points.

[Gothnomicon]

As a Chaos Dwarf army owner, the only caution that I'd mention is that you may not be able to take them into your local GW store, as odd as that may sound. My local GW store (Raleigh, NC, USA) doesn't allow anything into the store that they don't sell in the store, Forge World included. This hits 40k for a lot of the elite units and totally eliminates the Chaos Dwarves in AOS. I don't know if you ever play in a GW store (if you have any nearby), but it may be worth checking on that first if you care. 

As my local GW store is about my only local place for pick-up games and I don't frequent tournaments, I have 0 (zilch, nada) games with my Chaos Dwarf army. Great army, and the GH 2017 looks like it made the army feasible, but at the moment, I've got a nice dust collecting army. 

[The Stronghold]

3 hours ago, Gothnomicon said:

My local GW store (Raleigh, NC, USA) doesn't allow anything into the store that they don't sell in the store, Forge World included. This hits 40k for a lot of the elite units and totally eliminates the Chaos Dwarves in AOS.

That's super strange!

[stratigo]

4 hours ago, Gothnomicon said:

As a Chaos Dwarf army owner, the only caution that I'd mention is that you may not be able to take them into your local GW store, as odd as that may sound. My local GW store (Raleigh, NC, USA) doesn't allow anything into the store that they don't sell in the store, Forge World included. This hits 40k for a lot of the elite units and totally eliminates the Chaos Dwarves in AOS. I don't know if you ever play in a GW store (if you have any nearby), but it may be worth checking on that first if you care. 

As my local GW store is about my only local place for pick-up games and I don't frequent tournaments, I have 0 (zilch, nada) games with my Chaos Dwarf army. Great army, and the GH 2017 looks like it made the army feasible, but at the moment, I've got a nice dust collecting army. 

Have you asked him why?

It seems like the guy is too focused on the bottom line of his store and begrudges any purchases that don't go through him.

[Kyriakin]

Ordering FW through a store should be an option, and count towards that store's sales targets.

Currently, I believe ordering from the GW webstore inside a shop does count, but they get no benefit from ordering from home and collecting at the store.

[spenson]

I've got quite the opposite situation at my local GW. They like playing against the chaos dwarfs because it's an army you don't face often.

[Arkiham]

9 hours ago, Gothnomicon said:

As a Chaos Dwarf army owner, the only caution that I'd mention is that you may not be able to take them into your local GW store, as odd as that may sound. My local GW store (Raleigh, NC, USA) doesn't allow anything into the store that they don't sell in the store, Forge World included. This hits 40k for a lot of the elite units and totally eliminates the Chaos Dwarves in AOS. I don't know if you ever play in a GW store (if you have any nearby), but it may be worth checking on that first if you care. 

As my local GW store is about my only local place for pick-up games and I don't frequent tournaments, I have 0 (zilch, nada) games with my Chaos Dwarf army. Great army, and the GH 2017 looks like it made the army feasible, but at the moment, I've got a nice dust collecting army. 

Pretty sure all stores were told to allow forgeworld models.

[Kramer]

Go for the Chaos dwarves, know a couple of guys who would like to but see the price tag as a big obstacle. (someone calculated 2K points would cost him about 250% more, so he dropped the idea).

And if you are worried about the concequences of the tournament... don't ask us, ask the organiser or better yet a couple of players  Just go to the next tournament even if you are not playing and say hi.  

 

[Gothnomicon]

{shrugs} 2017 Chaos Dwarf racism.

Local GW manager gets no profit from FW sales. GW Corporate still needs to fix a stupid outdated policy. Local GW store should get credit for FW sales tagged to the local GW store. Also, local GW store should get credit for internet purchases tagged to that store, instead of requiring me to physically go to that store to place an order. Problem solved. Until then caveat emptor.

 

[BunkhouseBuster]

I think that a major reason for why Forge World is more accepted for AoS is that the rules are easier to access.  When I first started the hobby, Forge World existed for fancier versions of models you could already get, bits to make units that didn't have rules, or 40K super-heavy vehicles.  The caveat was that many of the rules for their units existed in books that you had to order through Forge World.  While that's not a big deal if you order them and study them up, but for those of us who were not able to make many Forge World orders, it was all a fringe part of the hobby.  Something that all of us could see, but never really touch on our meager budgets.  If anyone wanted to get Forge World models for gaming, then you had to also get the books to see if you even wanted to play them.

But nowadays, with the AoS rules and warscrolls all being free, that layer of exclusion is gone.  I don't have to order the book and look at it first, then decide if I want that unit or army.  I can just download the rules, study them up, plan some lists and armies out, and then make the purchases I want.  The research portion of army collecting is now much easier and accessible for the common player.  (The fact that GW did not go this route with 40K is one of the reasons that I'm not jumping into 8th Edition 40K anytime soon.)

Plus, in my view, the Forge World AoS units are not completely broken in either extreme.  There have been so many 40K units from Forge World that were either over-powered cheesy units, or under-powered paperweights, and not much in between.  Sure, 30K/Horus Heresy has some better balancing, but that's because it's mostly just Space Marines versus Space Marines.  But for AoS, the units and models are not broken to either over- or under-powered.

I would play anyone who wants to use Forge World models and units in a game with me.

[shinros]

14 hours ago, Gothnomicon said:

As a Chaos Dwarf army owner, the only caution that I'd mention is that you may not be able to take them into your local GW store, as odd as that may sound. My local GW store (Raleigh, NC, USA) doesn't allow anything into the store that they don't sell in the store, Forge World included. This hits 40k for a lot of the elite units and totally eliminates the Chaos Dwarves in AOS. I don't know if you ever play in a GW store (if you have any nearby), but it may be worth checking on that first if you care. 

As my local GW store is about my only local place for pick-up games and I don't frequent tournaments, I have 0 (zilch, nada) games with my Chaos Dwarf army. Great army, and the GH 2017 looks like it made the army feasible, but at the moment, I've got a nice dust collecting army. 

Man that sucks. My store is pretty much the opposite they are a okay with anything forgeworld. Seems really strange of him to do this.

 

[RuneBrush]

I've never had an opponent who has an issue with Forge World and the handful of Tournaments I've gone to don't either.  GW has done a really good job recently in breaking down some of the "them and us" barrier, especially since the new 40k dropped - I feel that AoS is even more integrated as you don't need special books or similar to play with FW models.

That said, my local GW store has banned FW models from Armies on Parade this year as the manager doesn't sell them in store.  This has actually resulted in me not only entering AoP at a different store, but also not going to my local one since the beginning of August.  Part of me wants to complain but the other part feels like it's just whinging!

[Sleboda]

There is a difference between whining and feedback.  Let your old store know why you've made the change so they can properly evaluate their policy. 

[arnoldrew]

20 hours ago, Gothnomicon said:

As a Chaos Dwarf army owner, the only caution that I'd mention is that you may not be able to take them into your local GW store, as odd as that may sound. My local GW store (Raleigh, NC, USA) doesn't allow anything into the store that they don't sell in the store, Forge World included. This hits 40k for a lot of the elite units and totally eliminates the Chaos Dwarves in AOS. I don't know if you ever play in a GW store (if you have any nearby), but it may be worth checking on that first if you care. 

As my local GW store is about my only local place for pick-up games and I don't frequent tournaments, I have 0 (zilch, nada) games with my Chaos Dwarf army. Great army, and the GH 2017 looks like it made the army feasible, but at the moment, I've got a nice dust collecting army. 

Is there any way to report them to Games Workshop for not allowing Games Workshop models? Seems like an issue with corporate to me.

[Trout]

59 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

Is there any way to report them to Games Workshop for not allowing Games Workshop models? Seems like an issue with corporate to me.

I doubt it. My local GW also limits Forgeworld models, although the limit is not zero. I believe the limit is 10% per army. Having a few Forgeworld models is fine, but a Legion of Azgorh army is out of the question.

 

The way corporate has built in their incentives encourages stores to place such limits.

[Drofnum]

2 hours ago, Trout said:

I doubt it. My local GW also limits Forgeworld models, although the limit is not zero. I believe the limit is 10% per army. Having a few Forgeworld models is fine, but a Legion of Azgorh army is out of the question.

 

The way corporate has built in their incentives encourages stores to place such limits.

But store rules like that encourage me to go to a non-GW store to play so is it really worth it?

[Trout]

18 hours ago, Drofnum said:

But store rules like that encourage me to go to a non-GW store to play so is it really worth it?

Probably. I suppose it depends on the store. But GW stores tend to have 1 or 2 tables; they can't support a lot of gaming. So, thinking through this as if I were a manager, if you're going to be taking up space in my store with your a Forgeworld army that doesn't make me any money, I'd rather you go somewhere else so tables can be available for players who actually buy their armies in my store.

[Drofnum]

4 hours ago, Trout said:

Probably. I suppose it depends on the store. But GW stores tend to have 1 or 2 tables; they can't support a lot of gaming. So, thinking through this as if I were a manager, if you're going to be taking up space in my store with your a Forgeworld army that doesn't make me any money, I'd rather you go somewhere else so tables can be available for players who actually buy their armies in my store.

Sure but then since I cant play my army there I go to another store and any time me and my friends play we all play there.  I spend money where I play so I'm not going to be buying small items, paints or new armies from your store cause I cant play this one army at your store.  I can see some managers choosing to take that risk and depending on your playerbase it might not matter, I can tell you where I am, losing the 8 or so people I play with significantly impacts the only local store. So it wouldnt be best to alienate players that really are playing with GW models(We all know FW is basically GW other than for some silly things like this).  

 

Again its totally up to the manager, it just means if i have FW models in my army i'll take my business elsewhere.  Risk vs reward for the store and all that.