angrycontra Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 I don't see those reavers being too bad. I see them as excellent filler unit that is far more threatening than some 10 guys with crappy survivability and meh combat ability. If your opponents shoots them death, so what, that was 60 points. If they can charge and kill something they basically got their cost back and if not... meh whatever. Stormcast ones I wouldn't rate that high though. 100 points is not really what I would call filler addition and they're not strong enough to warrant their poor wound count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernalslayer Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 3 hours ago, angrycontra said: I don't see those reavers being too bad. I see them as excellent filler unit that is far more threatening than some 10 guys with crappy survivability and meh combat ability. If your opponents shoots them death, so what, that was 60 points. If they can charge and kill something they basically got their cost back and if not... meh whatever. Stormcast ones I wouldn't rate that high though. 100 points is not really what I would call filler addition and they're not strong enough to warrant their poor wound count. Their survivability is worse than 10 Bloodreavers (5 wounds instead of 10 with the same 6+ save) or Khorne marked marauders (10 wounds with 5+ save if equipped with shields). Those 10 man options are usually better filler as they can hold some objectives that require you to have a bigger model count to score the point. They are ok if you only have 60 points left to spend and no other options. Otherwise for 70 points you can bolster an existing unit of bloodreavers with an additional 10 and make them deadlier, or for 80 points you get a killy Khorgorath. They are a unit that i could see being used along with the starter set Bloodbound in beginner games, where they could do some surprise damage, but they would quickly get tossed aside when said player gets a few new toys for his army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erasercrumbs Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I think it's totally okay if they're merely 'pretty good,' and not mathematically optimized to be the best unit choice in every situation. I don't play Shadespire, but I'll probably get the Skaven unit, just for variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Personally I'm liking the 'reavers for fulfilling things like battalion requirements, they're not so expensive that I wouldn't want to park them on an objective and deal out a decent amount of damage if attacked in combat. Low wound count is a bit of a bummer - would have been nice to have been able to fill the unit up with regular reavers but can see me fielding them in friendlies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Both units look cheap and cool to me, I really don't know what else people expected here, afteral in the size of Age of Sigmar armies they are special but nothing out of the boundries. We arn't talking about colossal Heroes here. Something the Age of Sigmar setting also has enough of. The downside of 100 and 60 point units is that they indeed die quickly, so do all 100 to 60 point units in a 2K game... I really like GW did make this unique Warscroll aswell. It means that there is actually a great added bonus for Shadespire players to look into Age of Sigmar and the other way around. Even as just a small Warband I personally like it that these units are small and stay small. The prime reason as to why I like it has to do with a nice soft counterbalance to rewarding big units in terms of cost. These Warbands come from a Skirmish (game) and still play like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Yes. After all, fighters in shadespire are mooks (except the fyreslayer, apparently, they are with a FREAKING RUNEFATHER), so they shouldn't be very powerful in a grand scale battle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 On 10/22/2017 at 12:49 AM, Spiny Norman said: It's suprisingly pitiful how people use a already out-of-context-too-strong-and-unbalanced- unit to declear another unit not crazily strong. SCE...ugh. I loathe SCE, but calling liberators and retributors "too strong and unbalanced" warscrolls is a real stretch. There are MANY units that are substantially more efficient than Liberators on defense, and their offense is distinctly mediocre. Their raw offensive efficiency is maybe a tiny bit above what you'd expect for their defensive efficiency, but that is mitigated heavily by the fact that they are on 40mm bases and fight with a 1" range. Large units of Liberators are incredibly awkward to use as you end up with huge numbers of idle models except in very narrow circumstances. There are plenty of warscrolls that look better on both defense AND offense than Liberators once you factor in their base size and range. Retributors are powerful on offense (their WDR is very good, but there are lots of examples of units that are better). Their defensive efficiency, on the other hand, is quite poor. It's not terrible or anything... but it's pretty bad. There are plenty of units across Grand Alliances that have comparable efficiency to Retributors. SCE may or may not be overpowered as a faction (I don't have a solid opinion on the matter), but if they are I think it has a lot more to do with their battalions, allegiance abilities and certain synergistic combos than it does with the basic warscrolls themselves being too strong. On 10/22/2017 at 2:40 AM, Mace108 said: Is there a WDR or DER calculator or formula I can use? Unfortunately no, there definitely isn't one for WDR. Defensive Efficiency might have a calculator out there but I'm not sure. The math isn't too hard to do and only gets complicated when there are lots of conditional abilities and rerolls to factor in. If you are curious about a specific warscroll PM me and I'll do the math for you if I have time. 13 hours ago, erasercrumbs said: I think it's totally okay if they're merely 'pretty good,' and not mathematically optimized to be the best unit choice in every situation. I don't play Shadespire, but I'll probably get the Skaven unit, just for variety. I completely agree with this. The sweet spot for these warscrolls is for them to be better in certain specific situations and worse in others than existing basic warscrolls. If they become auto-includes that will be a problem. It's also a problem if they are strictly worse than basic warscrolls. Sometimes better and sometimes worse, thus making them more specialized versions of basic units? Perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellalugosi Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 love how the appropriate keywords have been added to these units meaning well have a little more variety when fielding warscroll battalions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone2040 Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Have to say, I really like Ironskull's Boyz. They're a nice little tanky unit, that doesn't pay much more for their abilities. I think they're a cool little unit you could plonk on an objective in Matched Play, especially since Ironjawz don't have any cheap units other than their heroes to fulfil that duty. I'm not a huge fan of the Sepulchral Guard for a similar reason of the Bloodreavers. Since you can't add extra models to this unit, they're extremely fragile at only 7 wounds. Skeletons are awesome because you can take them in large numbers. In small numbers they're not super impressive. To be fair, they do have the basically the same number of attacks as a 10 man skeleton unit in 7 bodies with slightly better profiles. Who knows, since Deathrattle don't have battleline issues, maybe they'll find a place as a small 7 man objective holder. Personally I would've really liked to see the unit leaders with an extra wound. Would add a cool little touch to make them feel a bit more like 'semi-heroes'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrAiKo Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Hang on... an 8 wound orruk unit is nice and tanky but a 7 wound skele unit that gain regrow is extremely fragile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone2040 Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 40 minutes ago, BrAiKo said: Hang on... an 8 wound orruk unit is nice and tanky but a 7 wound skele unit that gain regrow is extremely fragile? Ironjawz have a 4+ save and a 6++ save. Skeletons have a 6+ save, 5+ if they're against the right opponents. So yeah, they're more fragile I don't think the regen will really kick in that much, it's only D3 and the unit is already pretty small. It's not like when you have 40 Skeletons regening D6 every turn, you're pretty sure you're going to get to regenerate some Skeletons and make use of that banner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 New warscrolls added to first post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 As before, all these units are kind of neat. It's very easy to dismiss the use of 60-100 point units because they cannot compete with 300+ point units. Sure, this is always the case but what I like about all these units in particular is how you can bubble-wrap them and thake them along with other units to deliver the 'glass cannon' or otherwise be a meatscreen for Heroes. Only because of the horde rules from GH2017 do I believe some can't see the functionality for this. I really like it all though, it isn't much needed for 2K but all these units are extremely relevant for newer players who more often play at 1K or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnelian Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 So I used Steelhearts Champions yesterday for the first time in AoS against Clan Skryre. They drop down and immediately get six mortal wounds to the face from a Warp lightning cannon ! Classic. Get thyself back to shadespire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunkhouseBuster Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 I have mixed, but mostly positive, feelings about the use of the Shadespire Warbands in regular AoS games. I'll start with my negative thoughts: First off, I am reminded of Warmachine/Hordes, and that's never a good thing. Adding in small units to the various armies where the models (or most of them) are named characters is very similar to the "triiumvirate" units published for Warmahordes armies. Granted, when I played Khador, the Great Bears of Gallowswoods landed me one of my three victories in that game, but anytime GW makes a move that Privateer Press did, I get a strange feeling in my stomach. Second, I'm not too excited for the their performance on the tabletop. If you want these models to be more than just a cheap filler unit, then let's make them more survivable. Increase the Wounds! Better Saves! Sure, make them more points to match, but if they go down quick, what's the point? I guess they would all be really cool in a smaller sized game, but still yet... Third, it costs money, and things are tight right now on the homefront for me. And with the holidays and cold weather coming up, it's going to be even tighter than usual. And now for the positives: More awesome models for the game! This is always good for the game. Adding in characters to the game and expanding the fluff! And not in a way that "fills in the maps", but exploring one area and adding further characterization to the setting. A new boardgame within the setting. This will help spread the game to other target audiences, and increase AoS's marketshare and presence in gaming shops. Representation. Yes, I'm aware what I sound like when I say that it's a good thing to have a female character in a wargame, but before any of you start labeling me, bear in mind that I have a wife, step-daughter, and my own daughter, who are going to someday look at my hobby, and have their own feelings about it. By giving them a character that they can more easily relate to, they have a better chance of enjoying the hobby as well. Granted, my wife is working on Sylvaneth, my step-daughter want's a Death army, and my daughter is not yet 8 months old, things are going pretty well for me right now. But my point stands! While it costs money, it's not breaking the bank. $60 USD and $30 USD for each army is a decent price, especially if the target market is spending hundreds on X-wing miniatures. I think GW has great potential with Shadespire. New versions of Old World models. I mean, look! More Ardboys and Deathrattle models! I bet nobody really saw that one coming. That right there kind of gets me excited for what's to come for other Old World WHFB armies... All in all, I haven't played it yet, nor have I seen a demo. I am excited for it, and it might become my next large hobby purchase. But I just don't quite have the mental capacities to learn new games right now, what with the baby, step-daughter's homework projects, and taking care of several familial matters. If only this had come out when I was younger, had more time, and more money, then I would be on board with this with the best of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 On 24/10/2017 at 12:28 AM, hellalugosi said: love how the appropriate keywords have been added to these units meaning well have a little more variety when fielding warscroll battalions! I want to check this as I did a bit of research as I was curious and concluded you can only include them if the KEYWORD BOLD is in the battalion rather than the unit/warscroll name. The FAQ cleared this up with: Quote Q: How do you determine what models and units make up a warscroll battalion? When is it based on a keyword and when is it a unit name? A: When a warscroll battalion is referring to a keyword, it appears in Keyword Bold. Otherwise, it is referring to the name of a unit. So for example the SCE shadespire champions, they've the 'liberator' keyword. However, all battalions for SCE that require liberators have the warscroll/unit name: 1 or 2 or 3 "unit(s) of liberators". There aren't any with "1 or 2 units of LIBERATORS". By contrast, there are battalions that require "1 or 2 units of PALADINS". Or am I incorrect here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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