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New warscroll for Shadespire!


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This is really cool but I am a bit disappointed they made them a separate unit. 

I have 35 Blood Reavers and was planning to use these 5 to make a full squad of 40 for the points discount. I suspect people may not let me do that now.

My Dad was planning to use the 3 Stormcast as liberator primes in his unites to differentiate the squads. I suspect he will be ok though because that Warscroll is a anwesome little unit.

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32 minutes ago, Carnelian said:

I'm really glad that they have done unit warscrolls rather than individual heroes. Good call!

I've got a hunch that the Fyreslayer, skaven and skeleton warbands' leaders will be fully fledged heroes an account of them respectively being a Runefather, a Warlord and the Sephuchral Warden, who's background makes him seem like a pretty big deal.

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2 hours ago, Arkiham said:

The liberators are so strong it's crazy.

 

The bloodreavers are actually worth it over the normal unit I think

I'm not seeing it. With Severin's ability active they have a weighted damage ratio (WDR) of .076. With Lay Low The Tyrants active it's .086. Their defensive efficiency without the shield ability active is 8.33/11.11/13.88/16.67 against rend 0/1/2/mortal damage. It's 6.95/10.18/13.42/16.67 with the shield ability. With the shield ability AND Heroic Guard active it's 3.7/6.95/10.18/16.67.

For comparison, regular Liberators have a WDR of .0533 without Lay Low the Tyrants and .0711 with it active, while Retributors have a WDR of .0904. 

Defensively, regular Liberators clock in at 4.17/6.1/8.06/10 and Retributors at 7.33/9.78/12.22/14.67.

Based on the numbers, Steelheart's Champions are offensively better than Liberators but worse than Retributors. Defensively they are a bit worse than Retributors unless they have their Heroic Guard ability active, in which case they become a bit better than Liberators against rend 0 but between Liberators and Retributors against rend 1 and 2 and worse than Retributors against mortals. 

 

TL;DR: based on the numbers they are strictly better than Liberators when the shield guy is still alive AND they are being charged. Otherwise in most situations their offense is a little better and their defense is a lot worse than regular Liberators. Their offense is worse than Retributors, and their defense is also worse than Retributors except against rend 0 when the shield dude is alive or when being charged. To me that doesn't seem crazy strong unless you also think basic Liberators and Retributors are crazy strong.

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14 minutes ago, Waizer said:

Just ooi are those new liberators hammers of sigmar only like neave blacktalon or can they be in any stormhost?

It doesn't say they can't be used in any Stormhost, and they're certainly not painted up as Hammers of Sigmar in these two examples of GW staff's Shadespire Warbands:

ShadespireWarbandsOct19-Image4uw.jpg

ShadespireWarbands-Oct20-Image3tr.jpg

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4 minutes ago, Double Misfire said:

It doesn't say they can't be used in any Stormhost, and they're certainly not painted up as Hammers of Sigmar in these two examples of GW staff's Shadespire Warbands:

Cheers, second picture certainly confirms it for me. First pic though has 2 changed weapons so not sure if they can even be used as the warband

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On 21/10/2017 at 6:40 PM, swarmofseals said:

I'm not seeing it. With Severin's ability active they have a weighted damage ratio (WDR) of .076. With Lay Low The Tyrants active it's .086. Their defensive efficiency without the shield ability active is 8.33/11.11/13.88/16.67 against rend 0/1/2/mortal damage. It's 6.95/10.18/13.42/16.67 with the shield ability. With the shield ability AND Heroic Guard active it's 3.7/6.95/10.18/16.67.

For comparison, regular Liberators have a WDR of .0533 without Lay Low the Tyrants and .0711 with it active, while Retributors have a WDR of .0904. 

Defensively, regular Liberators clock in at 4.17/6.1/8.06/10 and Retributors at 7.33/9.78/12.22/14.67.

Based on the numbers, Steelheart's Champions are offensively better than Liberators but worse than Retributors. Defensively they are a bit worse than Retributors unless they have their Heroic Guard ability active, in which case they become a bit better than Liberators against rend 0 but between Liberators and Retributors against rend 1 and 2 and worse than Retributors against mortals. 

 

TL;DR: based on the numbers they are strictly better than Liberators when the shield guy is still alive AND they are being charged. Otherwise in most situations their offense is a little better and their defense is a lot worse than regular Liberators. Their offense is worse than Retributors, and their defense is also worse than Retributors except against rend 0 when the shield dude is alive or when being charged. To me that doesn't seem crazy strong unless you also think basic Liberators and Retributors are crazy strong.

can you really compare the stats of a 100 pts/man unit with a 22O pts unit ?

 

the bloodreavers are pretty good. Well. Gorek is pretty good. Near a bloodsecrator,  it's 5 attacks 3+/4+/-1/1, for 5hp with a 6+ save  (The other guys are pretty much here to give him more hp ), with some mortal wounds (and khorne NEED mortal wounds).  For 60 pts

The liberators seems cool. A 3 man-version of liberators, worse defensively, but with better offense and with a better attack concentration (more easy to put 3 guys on the frontline than 5).

Both unit seems quite competent. Not uber-strong, but you can actually think of taking them instead of the classic unit

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2 hours ago, ledha said:

can you really compare the stats of a 100 pts/man unit with a 22O pts unit ?

That's what the stats I was quoting do. I forget that I need to explain WDR and DER every time I use them. 

WDR is basically the expected damage that a unit will do (with added value given to the different rend values and mortal wounds) divided by the points cost of the unit. A higher number is better. So if a unit has an expected output of, say, 5 rend 0 wounds and costs 100 points it will have a WDR of .05.  You can loosely think of WDR as "how much damage do I get for every point I spend on this unit?"
 

DER (or simply defensive efficiency) is just the points cost of the unit divided by the expected number of wounds of a given type that it would take to destroy the unit. Nothing weird or special going on here, just straight math. In this case a lower number is better.  You can loosely think of this as "how many points does it cost me to absorb a wound with this unit?"

 

So yeah, all of the statistics that I used in my post fully take the points cost of the units into account.

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15 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

TL;DR: based on the numbers they are strictly better than Liberators when the shield guy is still alive AND they are being charged. Otherwise in most situations their offense is a little better and their defense is a lot worse than regular Liberators. Their offense is worse than Retributors, and their defense is also worse than Retributors except against rend 0 when the shield dude is alive or when being charged. To me that doesn't seem crazy strong unless you also think basic Liberators and Retributors are crazy strong.

 

It's suprisingly pitiful how people use a already out-of-context-too-strong-and-unbalanced- unit to declear another unit not crazily strong. SCE...ugh.

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Gut feel is that I don't rate them in Matched Play.

Both look pretty fragile, coming in at 6 and 5 wounds for the entire unit respectively. As soon as Steelhearts champions take 2 wounds, they lose one of their abilities (Severin's reliability, Obryns super great-hammer, or Angharad's shield bonus). The Bloodreavers just look like they'd fall over to an aggressive breeze.

I guess overall, I don't think the extra few abilities the units gets makes up for the loss of wounds by having less unit members (and the inability to increase the unit size). Maybe Severin's could do some burst damage if they manage to make it into combat.

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7 hours ago, someone2040 said:

Gut feel is that I don't rate them in Matched Play.

Both look pretty fragile, coming in at 6 and 5 wounds for the entire unit respectively. As soon as Steelhearts champions take 2 wounds, they lose one of their abilities (Severin's reliability, Obryns super great-hammer, or Angharad's shield bonus). The Bloodreavers just look like they'd fall over to an aggressive breeze.

I guess overall, I don't think the extra few abilities the units gets makes up for the loss of wounds by having less unit members (and the inability to increase the unit size). Maybe Severin's could do some burst damage if they manage to make it into combat.

I think one should see this heroic units as a Hero with a "degrading" statline based in how many models he has lost. It lost habilities and damage.

But personally, I think you are right, those 5 Bloodreavers will die to just a bolley of enemy fire :D 

 

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Yeah Garrek's Reavers look very uninspired, they basically added the Bloodletters' ability to the chief's weapon. "Grisly Trophy" is quite  useless as well, since even if Garrek manages to kill a hero, which is quite unlikely, he will most probably die before his next turn comes so the added attacks won't be put to use.

 

They did a much better job with the Stormcast warband, it reminds me of Vandus Hammerhand and Khorgos Khul treatment all over again.

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