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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Seraphon Discussion

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Morning all,

Here is the new thread for discussing Seraphon. With the imminent release of AoS 2 (and a lot of the info already being out there), now is the time for us to start afresh on TGA.

Moving forward, this will be the main thread to chat about and discuss Seraphon in the new edition. I still wholly encourage people to keep their own threads/army blogs within this sub forum and I also think those are a great place to share some photos as I know not everyone frequents the Painting & Modelling section (like me!). But this thread is purely for discussion around the faction, things such as (but not limited to) tactics and list building etc. You all know the drill, we've been doing it on this forum since inception!

For newer players, I would say the older thread could still be worth perusal and whilst it is now locked for further replies, you can find it here - http://www.tga.community/forums/topic/11252-lets-chat-seraphon-2017/

Really excited to see what we can come up with as a community and I look forward to reading all your ideas and thoughts.

Chris

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Hail blot toad!

 

What do we think about firelance going up in points? Seems a strange one as it's only used because you have to for draco, on its own it's pretty weak. 

Edited by robertxtrem

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4 hours ago, robertxtrem said:

Hail blot toad!

 

What do we think about firelance going up in points? Seems a strange one as it's only used because you have to for draco, on its own it's pretty weak. 

Knights got cheaper, so you roughly break even.

They said there is going to be an FAQ/errata accompanying the new edition, and I expect to see changes to some warscrolls (like the Knight Heraldor) and battalions (notably Thunderquake) that might justify the seemingly non-sensical point cost changes.

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15 hours ago, robertxtrem said:

Hail blot toad!

 

What do we think about firelance going up in points? Seems a strange one as it's only used because you have to for draco, on its own it's pretty weak. 

I'm pretty sure a lot of battalions went up in cost to account for the extra command point they give. But otherwise I think your description of that battalion I accurate :)

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Is thunder quake pretty much standard in every list? Looking to start seraphon and don't see how an engine of the gods and 2 bastilladons rerolling all saves and wounds (and hits with an astrolith bearer) while healing each turn isn't an absolutely core part of any list. It even includes your Slan star master for summoning. 

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Guess I posted too soon. Thunder quake took a bit of a hit in the FAQ if I'm reading it right. 

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8 minutes ago, Scrags said:

Guess I posted too soon. Thunder quake took a bit of a hit in the FAQ if I'm reading it right. 

It's the same. The errata  just clarifies the duration of the effect (until your next charge phase), rather than not stating when it ends. You can still keep re-rolls for wounds and saves up from your first charge phase to the end of the game.

Edited by Asamu

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The way I'm reading the FAQ, Ripperdactyls can indeed do infinity hits- Kroak's "cast three spells" thing on his warscroll is used as an example of a warscroll overriding the core rules, so presumably Ripperdactyls are the same?

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2 hours ago, Kirjava13 said:

The way I'm reading the FAQ, Ripperdactyls can indeed do infinity hits- Kroak's "cast three spells" thing on his warscroll is used as an example of a warscroll overriding the core rules, so presumably Ripperdactyls are the same?

In my eyes, it's still unclear. There's another relevant question:

Quote

Q: The rules say that extra attacks gained by the use of an ability cannot themselves generate further attacks (so if a hit roll of 6 would generate another attack, it would not do so again if you roll another 6 for the bonus attack). Does this also apply to spells?

A: Yes.

 

So there is a precedent, within this document, that not all warscroll abilities overrule the Core Rules. It's a really strange situation they've created.

I also wonder if there'll be something within the Matched Play to fully clarify these types of situations... after all, that's where the Rules of 1 first cropped up.
 

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10 minutes ago, rokapoke said:

In my eyes, it's still unclear. There's another relevant question:

So there is a precedent, within this document, that not all warscroll abilities overrule the Core Rules. It's a really strange situation they've created.

I also wonder if there'll be something within the Matched Play to fully clarify these types of situations... after all, that's where the Rules of 1 first cropped up.
 

The matched play section of ghb is already leaked. It's very thin, a 2 page spread. Not much new and most of the old stuff rolled into core rules. You can find it if you try but you'll have it soon enough

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If they don't FAQ rippers quickly they're going to end up with another GrundstokThunderers catastrophe.  People will buy them in droves because they'll instakill everything but a buffed starDrake.  Nothing else can come close to putting out 20+ wounds for 140 points.  Compare them to the offensive powerhouses that are Blood Sisters.  For those same 140 points they would have to be 100% successful on hit and wound rolls to equal just an average roll from rippers.  And that's with a 6" shorter move characteristic!

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I would assume Rippers function like they did in the previous edition. They wouldn't cost 140 points if they did infinitely exploding attacks. It's ridiculous to even consider anything else.

Thunderquake is just as potent as it was before, but 40pt cheaper. I have no idea why they reduced the cost of this battalion, but between that and Knights getting cheaper I think it's time to run my 9x Kroxigor Thunderquake list :)

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Anyone have thoughts on Sunblood Starhost? I like the idea of giving my already solid warriors rend. It seems easy to build and extra command points seem good in 2E. 

Are any of the mega formations good? I was looking at Dracothian tail but don't know how good the Knight batallion (Blazing lance?) is. I see that knights are going down in points. 

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17 minutes ago, Scrags said:

Anyone have thoughts on Sunblood Starhost? I like the idea of giving my already solid warriors rend. It seems easy to build and extra command points seem good in 2E. 

Are any of the mega formations good? I was looking at Dracothian tail but don't know how good the Knight batallion (Blazing lance?) is. I see that knights are going down in points. 

A Fangs of Sotek list, which is sunclaw + a slann and an oldblood carno + whatever, placed highly at London GT - 3rd place or so; the formation is pretty excellent, with the carnosaur bloodroar improvement and extra movement on the first turn. The list was 2x40 saurus, 10 saurus, 40 skinks, Slann (Vast intellect, Rectrices), Oldblood Carno (Blade of Realities), Sunblood (Light of Dracothian), and a skink priest.

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FW new pdf up!

Dread Saurian is up in points but now summoneable for 40 celestial points.

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Has anyone used the Mierce Miniatures Krokodar models as Kroxigor? They look sooooooo much better, much more like the redesign Kroxigor got in Total War: Warhammer 2...

Edited by Kirjava13

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21 hours ago, PJetski said:

I would assume Rippers function like they did in the previous edition. They wouldn't cost 140 points if they did infinitely exploding attacks. It's ridiculous to even consider anything else.

Thunderquake is just as potent as it was before, but 40pt cheaper. I have no idea why they reduced the cost of this battalion, but between that and Knights getting cheaper I think it's time to run my 9x Kroxigor Thunderquake list :)

Well there is little logic to many of the costs as the costs are mostly based on what the units used to do in the AoS1 during the last "season". It's exactly the same thing as with e.g. the Engine of the gods. Points remained the same, but it sprouts a new unit of ~120-150 points every second turn on average.

Rippers don't actually change so much as they dish out amazing amount of damage even without the infinite attacks when you hit stuff during your turn close to the bloat toad. Apart from that, they die very easily and the single beak attack doesn't cause that much damage even with "inifinite" multiplying attacks. Without the shadowstrike warhost it can be hard to get them to the desired target intact so that the bloat toad is also there so the points are not necessarily so far off.

The faq answer for the spells is because there was uncertainity if spells are classed as abilities. In my eyes it's clear that rippers do extra attacks as it is written in the warscroll, but the clarification that the new attacks don't generate new attacks is for units such as Daemonettes where is only written that on a hit roll of 6+ they generate a new attack and no mention about what happens the attacks generated by this way. That said, it's very possible that they'll do an errata for the warscroll at some point.

 

Fun thing by the way in the errata and faq.In the faq it was said that the newest version of the warscroll is always used, but in errata for the grand alliance books, there is said that the scrolls for Seraphon etc. are superceded by the ones on battletomes. Now I'm sure that there are no differences between those, but the Grand alliance books are newer than the first battletomes :)

 

Edited by Jamopower

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On 6/29/2018 at 12:59 PM, Kirjava13 said:

Has anyone used the Mierce Miniatures Krokodar models as Kroxigor? They look sooooooo much better, much more like the redesign Kroxigor got in Total War: Warhammer 2...

Personally I'm waiting for Lost Kingdom Miniatures "lizardmen" models, they are going to do kickstarter in couple days...

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17 hours ago, Blueraven84 said:

Personally I'm waiting for Lost Kingdom Miniatures "lizardmen" models, they are going to do kickstarter in couple days...

It's up, in case anyone is interested. Amazing miniatures! The chameleon hero and cold ones are some of the best lizardmen I've seen...  

 

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I like some of the models they've got on there but most of them seem out of scale. I like the kroxigor and cavalry stand ins and some of the characters but I feel like the basic infantry are a wash due to size and style.

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Ooooh those are some really beautiful lizards... and are those turtle warriors I see?

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I'm not a Seraphon player (yet), but I really don't know what to make of the Ripperdactyl thing. Strictly rules as written I have no idea why it wouldn't go infinite. Previously the rule stated that an extra attack can't ever generate another extra attack. The Ripperdactyl doesn't function like that though -- it generates extra hits, not extra attacks. Was the ruling that extra hits can't generate more extra hits in the previous Seraphon FAQ? If so, it seems telling that the ruling is not included in the current version of the FAQ. While I agree that it seems crazy, the level of offensive efficiency attained by Ripperdactyls even with "infinite" hit potential isn't unheard of. Even with the swooping down bonus and the bloat toad bonus I calculated somewhere around an average of 9 beak hits per model. I could be off on that math but I doubt it's dramatically wrong. With those stats, the offensive efficiency is about the same as Hagg Narr Witch Aelves on turn 3+ with Witchbrew (and that's counting the cost of the Hag Queen but not counting any of the Hag Queen's attacks or other abilities). 

EDIT: So is 4x Engine of the Gods going to pretty much be an automatic thing now?

Edited by swarmofseals

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