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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

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Thanks for that - I was a bit baffled about how you are to get models for things like hag queens etc without the kit being actively available! 

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Ahh the Blood Cauldron kit itself won't be discontinued*, that's just out of stock for a fair bit. 

It's only the combined Blood Coven (cauldron and witches) kit that is going away .

 

 

*If it were it would only be because GW put it into a starter kit only; much like they've done with a few other big monsters from fantasy. However I think that because of what the Cauldron offers to players I suspect it won't be in the new getting started kit; I suspect the new getting started might be something like two units of witches and then some harpies or snakes. 

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And upon that day much blood was spilt upon snake booty

 

In other news what you guys using to transport Khinari? I thought they'd be fragile, but having put one together my GODS are these going to be fragile models! Really beautiful but gods spears and tails they are thin!

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8 hours ago, Overread said:

And upon that day much blood was spilt upon snake booty

 

In other news what you guys using to transport Khinari? I thought they'd be fragile, but having put one together my GODS are these going to be fragile models! Really beautiful but gods spears and tails they are thin!

I've not bought any myself yet, but the Prosecutors and Aetherwings I picked up last month and assembled make me shudder every time I move the box they're in. I think the solution for me is to manufacture a series of metal shelves that I can put into a plastic storage box (father in law works in metal works, he can get me the sheets cut) and just magnetise my entire collection. 

I've seen people use large fishing or tool boxes that are very simple and metal.

I've got a 1k list ready to build, but not sure on temples, spells or artefacts, so advice welcome. Not played with the Daughters of Khaine yet - initially bought the Sisters/Medusa to ally to my Order Serpentis but also got my hands on two Doomfire Warlock kits so 1k list just happened...

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
Bloodwrack Shrine (220)
- General
Hag Queen (60)
Slaughter Queen (100)
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
5 x Doomfire Warlocks (160)
- Lore of Shadows: None
5 x Doomfire Warlocks (160)
- Lore of Shadows: None
Quicksilver Swords (20)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 63
 

 

I need to pick up the Battletome at some point to have a proper read through (only had chance to browse a store copy and look at stuff online). 

Edited by syph0n

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8 hours ago, Overread said:

And upon that day much blood was spilt upon snake booty

 

In other news what you guys using to transport Khinari? I thought they'd be fragile, but having put one together my GODS are these going to be fragile models! Really beautiful but gods spears and tails they are thin!

I dont have any foam trays that fit my daughters of khaine at the moment (and it doesnt look like Battlefoam is producing any special trays anytime soon… ) so I just take a cardboard box, throw as many foam pieces and bubble wrap in there as possible and pray to Khaine. 

But I have to say: Witch Aelfs/Sisters of Slaughter are surprisingly sturdy. No deformations or broken parts yet! 

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2 minutes ago, Gecktron said:

but I have to say: Witch Aelfs/Sisters of Slaughter are surprisingly sturdy. No deformations or broken parts yet! 

The only thing on them I'd worry about are the whips, but even they are small (the worst are whips on Slannesh chariots). The worrying models or Daughters are, in my view, the Cauldrons and Khinerai (one day I'll learn how to spell that word without having to look it up). Both feature a lot of small contract area parts and both feature some thinner details; plus cauldrons are big! Khinerai are also pretty big (actually just compared it, they are nearly as big as an angelus heavy warbeast from Hordes) so even when one has a stable storage its going to take up quite a chunk of space! 

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52 minutes ago, syph0n said:

I've not bought any myself yet, but the Prosecutors and Aetherwings I picked up last month and assembled make me shudder every time I move the box they're in. I think the solution for me is to manufacture a series of metal shelves that I can put into a plastic storage box (father in law works in metal works, he can get me the sheets cut) and just magnetise my entire collection. 

I've seen people use large fishing or tool boxes that are very simple and metal.

I've got a 1k list ready to build, but not sure on temples, spells or artefacts, so advice welcome. Not played with the Daughters of Khaine yet - initially bought the Sisters/Medusa to ally to my Order Serpentis but also got my hands on two Doomfire Warlock kits so 1k list just happened...

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
Bloodwrack Shrine (220)
- General
Hag Queen (60)
Slaughter Queen (100)
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
5 x Doomfire Warlocks (160)
- Lore of Shadows: None
5 x Doomfire Warlocks (160)
- Lore of Shadows: None
Quicksilver Swords (20)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 63
 

 

I need to pick up the Battletome at some point to have a proper read through (only had chance to browse a store copy and look at stuff online). 

I was thinking about a very similar 1k point army, at least for the core of it.

What is your reasoning behind the choice of taking a Slaughter queen on foot, rather than multiple Hag Queen ?

I think my list might feature 2x5 Khinerai Hearthrenders instead of one of your Doomfire unit.

I'm also thinking about bringing in a Celestar Ballista. Anyone have been wanting to try it ?

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Just now, Saiken said:

I was thinking about a very similar 1k point army, at least for the core of it.

What is your reasoning behind the choice of taking a Slaughter queen on foot, rather than multiple Hag Queen ?

I think my list might feature 2x5 Khinerai Hearthrenders instead of one of your Doomfire unit.

I'm also thinking about bringing in a Celestar Ballista. Anyone have been wanting to try it ?

Purely because the Bloodwrack Shrine leaves a Hag and Slaughter free! I have toyed with playing the Slaughter Queen as a Hag, saving me 40 points to use elsewhere, but not sure how. I've messed around trying different Cauldron combinations but I think if the Medusa is General, giving her the extra wounds on the Shrine is quite useful for 60 points difference.

At 1250 points I'd consider the Ballista. I have two on the way, but I'd use my Reaper Bolt Throwers anyway to keep in theme. I did also think about including a Hydra at that point level, or dropping a unit of Doomfires at 1k for a Hydra if I take out the Slaughter Queen for a Hag. 

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1 hour ago, syph0n said:

I've not bought any myself yet, but the Prosecutors and Aetherwings I picked up last month and assembled make me shudder every time I move the box they're in. I think the solution for me is to manufacture a series of metal shelves that I can put into a plastic storage box (father in law works in metal works, he can get me the sheets cut) and just magnetise my entire collection. 

I've seen people use large fishing or tool boxes that are very simple and metal.

I've got a 1k list ready to build, but not sure on temples, spells or artefacts, so advice welcome. Not played with the Daughters of Khaine yet - initially bought the Sisters/Medusa to ally to my Order Serpentis but also got my hands on two Doomfire Warlock kits so 1k list just happened...

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
Bloodwrack Shrine (220)
- General
Hag Queen (60)
Slaughter Queen (100)
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
5 x Doomfire Warlocks (160)
- Lore of Shadows: None
5 x Doomfire Warlocks (160)
- Lore of Shadows: None
Quicksilver Swords (20)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 63
 

 

I need to pick up the Battletome at some point to have a proper read through (only had chance to browse a store copy and look at stuff online). 

I would drop the second unit of of Doomfire Warlocks and the Quicksilver swords, change the Slaughter Queen to a Hag Queen and buff up one unit of Blood Sisters to 10 snakes. 

Doomfire Warlocks are a nice distraction but they also cost a lot. You can't even use their signature spell to its full effect when taking two units. I would instead focus on buffing up one unit of snakes as they can become really powerful with Witch Brew, Catechism of Murder and Mind Razor. 

I would also recommend using the Hag-Narr Temple as the command trait is really valuable when playing such a small/elite snake-heavy list. 

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1 hour ago, Overread said:

The only thing on them I'd worry about are the whips, but even they are small (the worst are whips on Slannesh chariots). The worrying models or Daughters are, in my view, the Cauldrons and Khinerai (one day I'll learn how to spell that word without having to look it up). Both feature a lot of small contract area parts and both feature some thinner details; plus cauldrons are big! Khinerai are also pretty big (actually just compared it, they are nearly as big as an angelus heavy warbeast from Hordes) so even when one has a stable storage its going to take up quite a chunk of space! 

Magna racks are an amazing storage and transport solution, I swear by this. I magnetized my entire army for zero breakage.

A 432 battlefoam pack size magna rack is sufficient to house a 2000pts DoK army. 1 platform can house up to 60 25mm models and adjustable height.

 

Edited by InSaint

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Curious how you all think this list would do in a competitive environment.  I'm trying to use what I have, but I'm not opposed to purchasing stuff if need be.  Think this comes in at 1990 currently.

Slaughter Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (330)

- General
- Command Trait : Zealous Orator
- Artefact : Thousand and One Dark Blessings - Prayer : Blessing of Khaine

Bloodwrack Shrine (220)

- Lore of Shadows : Mindrazor

Hag Queen (60)

- Artefact : Iron Circlet
- Prayer : Sacrament of Blood

Hag Queen (60)

- Prayer : Catechism of Murder

Bloodwrack Medusa (140)

- Lore of Shadows : Mindrazor

UNITS

20 x Witch Aelves (200)

-Pairs of Sacrificial Knives

20 x Witch Aelves (200)

-Pairs of Sacrificial Knives

20 x Witch Aelves (200)

-Pairs of Sacrificial Knives

15 x Doomfire Warlocks (480)

BATTALIONS

Cauldron Guard (100)  (think this changed in GH18? what should I modify to fit this in, or is it not worth it now?)

 

Thanks for the feedback!

 

Edited by LennyB

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Played a game against my buddy's everchosen list (Archaon, 9 Varanguard, Gaunt Summoner).  I brought:

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine

 - Temple: Hagg Nar 
LEADERS

Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)
- Lore of Shadows : Mindrazor

Slaughter Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (330)
- General
- Prayer : Catechism of Murder

Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- Artefact : Shadow Stone
- Lore of Shadows : The Withering

Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer : Blessing of Khaine

Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer : Sacrament of Blood


UNITS

5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)

5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)

30 x Witch Aelves (270)
-Pairs of Sacrificial Knives

10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)
-Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives

10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)
-Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives

5 x Doomfire Warlocks (160)
- Lore of Shadows : Shroud of Despair

Endless Spells
- Chronomantic Cogs (60)
- Geminids of Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Total Points 2000
Total Wounds 105

 

 

 

I ended up going second.  I dropped my Khinerai behind his lines to take out his sorcerer, they left him with 2 wounds remaining but finished him off next turn.  I was able to make a charge turn 1 into archaon due to the insane movement bonuses Cogs provide.  I ended up going 6" (base) + 6" (run from command point) + 2" (cogs) in the movement phase and another 9" in the charge phase (7" roll + 2" from cogs).  They had been buffed fully with mindrazor, catechism of murder, sacrament of blood, and blessing of khaine.  I was able to get 15 of them in base to base while using the remaining to conga line back into range of my slaughter queen on cauldron of blood.  They managed to deal a total of 12 wounds to archaon and only took 4 back.  I was able to finish archaon off in the following command phase using the cauldron of blood's command ability.  While that was happening on turn 1 the warlocks shot and managed to do a few wounds do a varanguard unit, morathi followed up with her gaze to finish it off.  Then charged into them and cleaned up the remaining 2 with ease.  At that point the game was pretty much over and we called it after turn 2.  We played the mission that has 3 objectives in the middle of the table, each is worth one point but you roll a d3 at the start of each battle round and the corresponding objective is worth 3 instead of 1 (can't remember the name of the mission).  Either way was a fun game (for me at least :P).  My friend has a much stronger list ready for next time now that he knows what to expect.  I was unable to get the geminids off that game however so I have no commentary on them.

 

 

Bonus! 

Almost fully painted now, just finished up 5 Khinerai, have 5 left and 10 witch aelves and the endless spells.  Will post full army when its ready

i6yzv0upyu711.jpg

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After reading through this thread, I don't see anyone talking about using Draichi Ganeth combined with the Slaughter Troupe battalion. I've been looking at this as a potential base to build an army around, and wondered if anyone has any experience playing with them and an idea of how well they would do. It seems to me being able to retreat and run back into combat (or even attack a different target) would be very useful. I'm surprised I don't see anyone looking into this and I wonder if I'm missing something.

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5 hours ago, Lord_of_Khaine said:

Bonus! 

Almost fully painted now, just finished up 5 Khinerai, have 5 left and 10 witch aelves and the endless spells.  Will post full army when its ready

Your models look amazing. May I ask how you do your bases? What materials and colors are you using?

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Quick question regarding our Bloodwrack Shrines and Cauldrons: Do they benefit from Look Out, Sir? It seems wrong that they do, but as written I can't find anything to suggest they don't. My opponent wasn't super thrilled when I told him I think the Shrine technically does (didn't come up in the game though) but going through the FAQ's and errata we couldn't find anything that said Behemoths were disqualified from Look Out, Sir

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1 hour ago, Cinncinnatus said:

Quick question regarding our Bloodwrack Shrines and Cauldrons: Do they benefit from Look Out, Sir? It seems wrong that they do, but as written I can't find anything to suggest they don't. My opponent wasn't super thrilled when I told him I think the Shrine technically does (didn't come up in the game though) but going through the FAQ's and errata we couldn't find anything that said Behemoths were disqualified from Look Out, Sir

Neither the Bloodwrack Shrine nor the Cauldrons of Blood have the monster keyword.  So technically they do benefit from Look Out, Sir.

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I'm sure this has been asked in the aos 1 thread, but still. 
Do people find value in equipping with elves with bucklers? or is double weapon the better option? 
 

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12 hours ago, Mark Williams said:

Your models look amazing. May I ask how you do your bases? What materials and colors are you using?

Thank you! For the base I am using stirland mud.  Once it dries I drybrush it with longbeard grey.  Following that I do some random patches with static grass using white glue.  Lastly I put on a middenland tuft or mordeheim turf with super glue.

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How have you guys found DoK faring in 2.0 so far? My buddies are still screaming that they are overpowered and its a bit disheartening. I am curious what everyone else's experience has been. 

Edited by Lord Veshnakar

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12 minutes ago, Lord Veshnakar said:

How have you guys found DoK faring in 2.0 so far? My buddies are still screaming that they are OP and its a bit disheartening. I am curious what everyone else's experience has been. 

I can't speak to a lot of specific experience or anything, but based just on the numbers DoK are a bit OP. Witch Aelves and Sisters of Slaughter have absurdly good offense for their cost, and the various allegiance abilities, prayers, artefacts etc. can make their defense perfectly respectable.  Most of the other warscrolls are good to great, too. If your buddies aren't playing tournament caliber lists then it's understandable why they would be frustrated. 

13 hours ago, Mark Williams said:

After reading through this thread, I don't see anyone talking about using Draichi Ganeth combined with the Slaughter Troupe battalion. I've been looking at this as a potential base to build an army around, and wondered if anyone has any experience playing with them and an idea of how well they would do. It seems to me being able to retreat and run back into combat (or even attack a different target) would be very useful. I'm surprised I don't see anyone looking into this and I wonder if I'm missing something.

Are you talking about for competitive play or friendly play? For friendly games it'd be perfectly fine, no doubt. The reason why few people discuss the option for competitive play is that it doesn't really add much. +1 to hit on the charge is great, but DoK just doesn't really need the offensive help. For the retreat and charge ability to be relevant, your unit has to have already survived 1-2 rounds of combat without destroying the enemy unit or being destroyed and must want to disengage the current unit and engage a different unit. Given that your units hit incredibly hard and, if you go Draichi Ganeth, will be quite fragile you can imagine that this circumstance wouldn't be super common. And in order to do this you have to pay for the battalion (130 points) and take a sub-par artefact. If you want to go Draichi Ganeth, I'd consider taking a Blood Sisters focused force as those guys care more about the +1 hit bonus than most.

The real issue, however, is the opportunity cost. DoK is something of a glass cannon army with incredible offense but mediocre defense. Two temple choices - Khailebron and Hagg Nar - offer bonuses that dramatically improve defense. Hagg Nar also offers a bonus that improves offense quite a bit as well, while Khailebron offers extra mobility.

When your army is already really good at something, it's often better to shore up a weakness than add on top of that strength -- and Hagg Nar both shores up the weakness and adds to the strength. I think that's why most of the competitive discussion revolves around these two temples, and especially Hagg Nar.

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DoK are a glass cannon army so they are nearly always going to hit very hard when they work as intended. The key of the army is to strike hard and fast and do maximum damage. However if your opponents learn to knock out or tangle up key units (like hags and queens) and to use screen units that are tough but perhaps not as damaging, but whcih can hold the line to block charges from Witches and Sisters - then your opponent can go some way to turning tables. 

 

Basically you need to either hit DoK faster and harder or have tougher units that can tarpit and out-last the initial hard hit. 

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The  real  issue, however, is the opportunity cost. DoK is something of a glass c annon army with incredible offense but mediocre  defense. Two temple choices - Khailebron and Hagg Nar - offer bonuses that dramatically improve defense. Hagg Nar also offers a bonus that improves offense quite a bi t as w ell, while Khailebron offers extra mobility.

I agree with the thrust of your point - DoK don’t need to lean into offence, they just need movement tricks and defence and possibly sniping.

However, I would add that DoK are ridiculously tough between the +1 armour buff and the Hagg Narr 5++ and the Prayer to reroll the 5++.

Once the Command Ability Spam issue goes away, I think DoK will be the strongest army in the game.

 

Edited by Nico

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18 hours ago, Mark Williams said:

After reading through this thread, I don't see anyone talking about using Draichi Ganeth combined with the Slaughter Troupe battalion. I've been looking at this as a potential base to build an army around, and wondered if anyone has any experience playing with them and an idea of how well they would do. It seems to me being able to retreat and run back into combat (or even attack a different target) would be very useful. I'm surprised I don't see anyone looking into this and I wonder if I'm missing something.

Personally, I found it a little redundant and not worth the points for that capability with that Tempe.

1) Sisters of Slaughter can already retreat and then 6'' pile in ~ so you can ensure that you attack first before they attack you. So charging is kinda useless except to get +1 to hit but with rerolling 1s and hitting on 3s  I found hitting on 2s not worth the entire build around that ability.

2) Heartrenders don't want to be charging ( unlike Lifetakers ) so it feels like a lot of inefficiency. Their shooting damage is low anyways so I wouldn't take em thinking they'll actually snipe any heroes, their value is objective contesters and more importantly screening enemies from moving onto objectives by deploying them down in enemies way. the 4+ roll lets you ensure you can move them exactly at that  6" out from an objective range, such that, when the enemy fights em and kills em, the enemy still doesn't get to score from that objective, that turn. an 80 obj denying road block of chaff. Very strong for that purpose.

3) Retreating is awesome. Still, not worth that many points, for meek shooting, I think ( with what I understand at this early stages of 2.0.) With LookOutSir! and the like, shooting damage is very very low with heartrenderes. I find them usually dealing 1dmg per shooting phase when I have all 5 girls alive. 

4) The extra artefact and 50pts of command you would spend ANYWAYS seems worth it for DoK. That said, I think we'll never really win deployments,  I think we have such efficient models so we can go second and do well. So I wouldn't really look at any battalion as "I'll win deployment" b/c vs a lot of top lists then 2 drops is about as low as you can go and what I've seen DoK can't be effecient ENOUGH  at 2 drops.

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