The Great Gnaw- Skaven release?

[Skreech Verminking]

5 hours ago, Rogue Explorator said:

I think Pestilens being playable solo was only possible for some time in the WHFB lifecycle (I think the 6th edition army book had themed clan army lists?), but at least as far back as the 4th edition army book (which is when I got my start in the hobby) Pestilens where very much a force for itself in the lore, being one side in the propably most brutal civil war Skaven have gone through and only somewhat quieting down after. It took a long time for them to be playable by themself (though they too had a number of client clans later on).

 

I think future support for factions old and new is a big question mark for the future right now in general. Even if GW only plans to give continued support for faction they newly created for AoS they have a lot on their plate already.

It does not help that there used to be lots of rumors floating about that GW had completely given up on supporting existing factions and would instead churn out all new factions all the time. This was somewhat supported by the release pattern for the last few years, even when the faction that saw a release was not nearly all new, it was still a new sub faction (like a new Stormcast Chamber, in the case of Order Draconis with its own battletome, or Primaris Marines). However, since the end of the Kirby era, GW has made a number of shows of support for old faction, via GHB/Chapter Approved and no model battletomes/codices and smaller splashes like the heralds and Firestorm, even if the release of actual miniature waves still seemed to corborate the notion. I think with Idoneth we see the release of the last army that started developement in the Kirby era and we already got some different signals from LoN and DoK and (I believe faster to develope) single character releases for older stuff.

Unless some very deep insider openly blabs, we will never know if this was ever truly the plan (it fits in its aweful shortsightedness, but that is no proof), but what does seem obvious is that:

1) The plans for future support and army release pattern saw a massive shift a few years back when we started seeing an influx of new factions in 40k and the release of AoS, while classic wave releases for existing forces simultaniously dropped

2) When we got the switch to "new GW" the release pattern and future support plans changed again, at first only visible in rules releases, with all the no new model "releases" that before where quite rare. But we still have no idea how that affects future plans, since likely every bigger release we have seen yet had entered developement and planning in "the old days".

 

Right now the best guess is a middle ground between all new stuff and support for existing ranges/collections. But since we can not really reliably draw from the past to predict the future at this point and GW still being prone to showing behavior that does not exactly seem intuitive, we actually have no idea how much support beyond rule updates any AoS faction that is not Stormcast will see in the future.

 

And not knowing how much support GW plans for "established" AoS factions, we can thus also draw no conclusions how many Factions AoS will eventually see blessed with a release.

If the plan indeed is "one miniature full release for everyone and that is it" (something that would ultimately burn out the hobby, I believe), GW very much could get around to every Clan type and then some.

But if we ultimately move back to there being a bunch of staple Core armies, many factions will need to be left in the Dust and it is hard to see how more than one clan could ever be sustained. Just offering continous support to all four mono god armies, plus Sylvaneth, Stormcast, the two new Duradin and 4 new Aelven factions is a tall order. And that is only two (incomplete) GAs accounted for.

 

One thing I could see is GW doing more "splashes" of thematically linked units for various factions like they did with the heralds. There already is some talk that the Stormcast mages come as part of the magic expansion and not a Stormcast Wave.

If we get a wild mix like that a few times a year and it moves up to include bigger units and behemoths, everyone can always expects the possibility of some new goodie without having to wait on a full release (that leaves you knowing that your favorites will not be seeing anything new for the next few years). And that even if there ends up being a large number of factions on some level of support.

I think this would be my favorite solution, particularly since we have digital warscrolls, so scattered rules are not as big a problem.

Well a rat can dream right?

anyways even if Gw won’t support my beloved Verminus Army, I will probably stay playing them for more or less ever.

so don’t worry I will probably make every single person on the next Tournament mad with my 320clanrats?

[Naflem]

On 4/13/2018 at 5:04 AM, S133arcanite said:

Any thoughts on new skaven?

 

Naw.

[Mayple]

2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Well a rat can dream right?

anyways even if Gw won’t support my beloved Verminus Army, I will probably stay playing them for more or less ever.

so don’t worry I will probably make every single person on the next Tournament mad with my 320clanrats?

Mad with envy

[Skreech Verminking]

On 4/17/2018 at 1:57 PM, Rogue Explorator said:

Not quite correct. Clanrats as military units where common to all warrior clans in the old world (which was all Clans but the "big four"). Skryre and Moulder might have had them, as certainly not every member of these Clans was a Warplock or Master Moulder/Handler. However, the basic members of Pestilens and Eshin where plague monks and nightrunners. It should propably be noted that Moulder, Skryre or Eshin where likely originally not meant to ever be fielded as pure forces of these Clans. They mostly existed to explain where the common clans got their weapons, warbeasts and ninja mercenaries from. In world, these clans where so wealthy and powerful they never had to field pure forces of their own, they had countless lesser client clans they could hire or coerce to do their fighting.

However, that was the old world. We now have an entirely different Clan system in AoS. There actually is no Skryre, Eshin, Moulder or Pestilence as singular unique Clan anymore. Instead each of the big four has spawned entire lines of Clans based on their MO, with the name now denoting a type of clan and traditional warrior clans, now called clans Verminous, still the most plentyful.

I am unclear wether the original four are still around. But if they are, they are no simply the biggest and most powerful among a great number of clans that act like them.

One thing this change has brought with it that the Clans spawned from the big four now all do commonly field entire armies unique to them. And along with that, their own Leaders and basic Troops. A Clanrat is only the basic member of a Clan Verminous. The basic member of a Clan Pestilens is a Plague Monk, the basic member of a Clan Eshin is a Night Runner and the basic Member of a Clan Skryre is a weapon team member or Skryre acolyte. This does raise the question what the basic member of a Clan Moulder is, they can not all be heroes. We might see eventually, but maybe they even have the luxory of most of their member being civilians? Granted, civilians that on a daily basis handle rabid monsters that murder and eat them given half the chance (knowing Skaven, they get the chance on a daily basis as well).

 

This also means that the power dynamics among Skavenkind  have massively changed. Before Skryre, Eshin and Moulder where nearly untouchable monopolists of fantastic power and they mostly stuck together and propped up the council of Thirteen. They gave the Skaven a small measure of stability only threatened by Pestilens, who at times fought the entirety of all other Skaven and always remained something of a renegade splinter faction within Skavenhood. This meant that not even Clan Morrs (the most powerful of the "traditional" clans) could go past the monopolists, resulting in the format that nearly every Skaven army consisted of a Warrior Clan units supported by specialists, no matter whose behalf they where fighting on.

This is now different as there are no countless Clans that can provide monsters, wonderweapons and assassins, some of them likely quite small and unimportant. Essentially, the monopolies are broken, a powerful Verminous Warlord can now likely subjugate one of the weaker Clans Skryre or Moulder to get his hands on their produce. Meanwhile, the weaker non-Verminous descendant Clans lack the power and wealth to have a Verminous Clan doing their bidding and are forced to field armies entirely of their own. This makes Skaven armies potentially very diverse, as each clan type could be leading an army composed of all elements of skaven society and each type of clan could show up as a "pure" force, with every mix in between thinkable.

The issue currently is, that this diversety is ill supported, with the only force halfway doable being a dedicated Clan force supported by an ally allotment from other clans or a GA Chaos army composed of all clans that could just as well include any other Chaos Model as well. All but Skryre and Pestilenz  Clans suffering from a lack of fitting allegiance abilities is propably the biggest roadblock

 

Well, Skavenslaves are a compendium unit, so it is unlikely they ever get to be part of any allegiance unless the unit gets redone. I would assume all Clans keep countless Slaves, but they might not be used as commonly on the battlefield anymore.

Verminous has four units if you count heroes. Warlords are exclusive to the warrior clans as well (their equivalent being Plague Priests, Arch-warlocks, Master Moulders and unknown for Eshin). And then there is the Verminlord Warbringer (with all Clan types but Moulder and Skryre having a Verminlord representative).

This is a big problem with the way the factions where split up in AoS in general. In most cases the more special and unique units where split from the basic elements of armies. Naturally most hobbyists, but also GW, tend to gravitate towards the more interesting special units, leaving factions like Greenskins, Gitmob, Verminous, Deathrattle, Brayherd, Gutbusters or Freeguild somewhat in the dust. Since these tend to form the backbone and greatest number of their people (in the case of Deathrattle the entire GA really) this generates quite the disconnect, as bar Freeguild and Slaves to Darkness (who have the advantage of being integrated with more interesting stuff via Free Cities or Marks), these basic representatives are actually underepresented on the game tables, in the stories and are unlikely to ever get more extensive support from GW.

I am split on this developement. On one hand I really like some of these (Brayherd, Deathrattle, Verminous) and am rather irritated by how jarring it is how rarely the "normal ones" show up.

On the other hand I am currently struggling with putting together a full unit of Skeletons and realise once a again what a chore horde units are in reality (which, bar Gutbusters, all the above are made of) and that all intentions asside collected a full such army is of the table for myself. Add that I can fully understand most wanting the fancy stuff in general and particular the creators propably not being to thrilled with making general skaven variant mk x.y.

There are some signals towards these being somewhat supported (Shadespire Warbands for Verminous and Deathrattle) and at least Slaves to Darkness might see Slaves to Darkness supported via Darkoath eventually (though I fear these might flop, popularity of StD is propably due to being fieldable in multiple armies via Marks, which Darkoath lack).

 

 

For all my love for Skaven, I think Moulder or (more likely) Skryre are the only ones I think I could ever collect due to these being fieldable with a much smaller miniature count.

 

I think smart money is GW supporting Clans Skryre first. They already have a good basic of rather new plastic kits (Doomwheel, Warp Lightning Cannon, Stormfiends), they are already popular for a number of reasons (Stormfiends being top tier battleline for some time in the Competitive side, a diverse roster and great conversion fodder creatively), they can be played with a very small or very large model count, they really grab the imagination, are very markatable and have some absolutely classic units. They even have one of the few existing units I could see getting a new kit, as Skryre akolyte models are ancient, an absolute classic and can easily be expanded with more weapon options, giving people far more reasons to get a new kit for them than is usual.

 

If GW where to do an entirely new type of Clan, I think an (aero-)nautical "Clans Skurvy" one is the best bet, it is really the only basis not covered by the existing ones Clan types, offer great creative space for models and they fit in line with the other sea themed releases and lore bits.

Yeah that will be probably something, but from the way the short malignant Portent story goes, we can see a massive horde of clanrats stormvermins some Moulder units all lead by a Master Packmaster.

so literally said what I think is, that Gw was interest to keep the clans more or less together and wasn’t planing  in separating them .

there might be a possibility that skaven still would get they’re so called mixed skaven battle tome  (which I’m hoping for, but having some doubts)

 

 

(https://malignportents.com/story/the-great-gnaw/).  

 

 

[Kugane]

On 16-4-2018 at 1:17 PM, Kirjava13 said:

I dare-hope to dream, yes-yes!

As far as I know, AOS2 is one way people are referring to this "second edition" of the game that's supposed to be on the way in summer with a rules update and new Nighthaunt and Stormcast. Given that we are also apparently expecting Moonclan Grots and Darkoath at some point, I am struggling to be too optimistic about a release of a rattier nature... but it needs to happen!

I did not read any leaks about moonclan or darkoath being a thing. People heavily assumed it due to the releases of the darkoath queen and the moonclan w/e his name is the other day, but I think it'll take a while before we see those. I think skaven will come first :). And hopefully sooner than later.

[Kugane]

On 17-4-2018 at 8:37 PM, Skreech Verminking said:

Well a rat can dream right?

anyways even if Gw won’t support my beloved Verminus Army, I will probably stay playing them for more or less ever.

so don’t worry I will probably make every single person on the next Tournament mad with my 320clanrats?

Please do! Including battle reports and pictures haha.

[Sete]

I was thinking on jumping into some skaven, (I have a new found love of rodents), should I wait for a new release then?

[Kugane]

8 minutes ago, Sete said:

I was thinking on jumping into some skaven, (I have a new found love of rodents), should I wait for a new release then?

Regardless of whats to come for Skaven, I'm certain it includes at least 60 to 80 clanrats. So do yourself a favour and start working on that as soon you can. Having to paint up 80 of those in short notice is burn-out material lol. Also once a release of Skaven goes live it'll be very hard to get a hold of cheap island of blood clanrats

[Sete]

4 minutes ago, Kugane said:

Regardless of whats to come for Skaven, I'm certain it includes at least 60 to 80 clanrats. So do yourself a favour and start working on that as soon you can. Having to paint up 80 of those in short notice is burn-out material lol. Also once a release of Skaven goes live it'll be very hard to get a hold of cheap island of blood clanrats

So is it too much to expect new clan rats minis?

[hughwyeth]

1 minute ago, Sete said:

So is it too much to expect new clan rats minis?

I usually say anything with a plastic kit isn't going to be replaced anytime soon, but the clanrats must be the most basic plastic kit there is and it's pretty old by now. I imagine if there's a new Skaven tome there will be a new kit for clanrats or whichever unit is the pan-skaven battleline. 

[Kirjava13]

We have seen three different plastic Clanrat boxes since the Globadier models were released, I would very much like some of them first. The Clanrats still look good, they're fine. When you need 80 of them in your army you don't want them being too complicated anyway.

[bonzai]

Who else is amazed that Seraphon were kept whole? If it were any other faction, it would have been split into 4 different factions. Saurus, Skinks, Kroxigores, and Slaan. I shake my head and wonder how they excaped that fate.

 I would love for Skaven to follow in the footsteps of chaos and stormcasts, and get a compendium battle tome. Things like masterclan will probably never have enough to field enough to have their own army, so why not combine them? Same thing with Verminus.

That being said, moulder could use heroes with a big wound pool. Mounted packmasters, and a vermin lord would be great. Verminus could use ranged infantry as well (like slingers).

 

[Kugane]

3 hours ago, bonzai said:

Who else is amazed that Seraphon were kept whole? If it were any other faction, it would have been split into 4 different factions. Saurus, Skinks, Kroxigores, and Slaan. I shake my head and wonder how they excaped that fate.

 I would love for Skaven to follow in the footsteps of chaos and stormcasts, and get a compendium battle tome. Things like masterclan will probably never have enough to field enough to have their own army, so why not combine them? Same thing with Verminus.

That being said, moulder could use heroes with a big wound pool. Mounted packmasters, and a vermin lord would be great. Verminus could use ranged infantry as well (like slingers).

 

They need to become 1 united army. Clans are cool for fluff reasons, but everything is extremely scattered without named heroes.

[Kyriakin]

3 hours ago, Kugane said:

They need to become 1 united army. Clans are cool for fluff reasons, but everything is extremely scattered without named heroes.

Options for united and options for thematic, with Pestilens perhaps remaining somewhat on the periphery.

[Kugane]

5 hours ago, Kyriakin said:

Options for united and options for thematic, with Pestilens perhaps remaining somewhat on the periphery.

I think pestilence can be a part of it too if they make it so your other rats arent damaged by their aura.

[MightyMetro]

6 hours ago, Kyriakin said:

Options for united and options for thematic, with Pestilens perhaps remaining somewhat on the periphery.

 

1 hour ago, Kugane said:

I think pestilence can be a part of it too if they make it so your other rats arent damaged by their aura.

Personally, Id rather that Pestilens maintained their damaging aura / negative synergies.  They are a clan of outsiders for this reason. They would quite happily infect other clans while serving in a larger warhost.  This is also a issue for nurgle  units in a mixed chaos army.

In these situations, battalions  can be a great way to introduce new depths to gameplay.  Players are rewarded in someway for dealing with specific synergies, whether they are positve or negative.  Some battalions could help units become more effective.  Others could help remove some negative synergies.  As an example, Emissaries of the Eldritch Council ability for the elves in Spire of Dawn  allows keyword sharing.

I want to see what happens when rival mini factions work together. Especially, our back stabbing rats

[DinoTitanedition]

Same here. I can see clan Pestilens being a rather unique thing, while I feel the other clans always work together. A Greyseer would most likely hire from various clans to his specific purpose. Verminous is pretty much the "army" of the Skaven. The muscle if you want to call it like that, while Skryre provides all the machinery and so on. You get the idea. Building a theme inside of a Skaven force ain`t too hard.

 

What I could see though, is a more specialised release for Eshin and a changeof name. Their craftsmanship strongly hails from the World that was, so a more modern take on assassination or infiltration is likely.

[Kirjava13]

Do you mean to imply spec-ops rats with steam punk night vision goggles?

Because I didn't know I needed that until I just typed that sentence.

[Jamopower]

21 hours ago, DinoTitanedition said:

 

 

What I could see though, is a more specialised release for Eshin and a changeof name. Their craftsmanship strongly hails from the World that was, so a more modern take on assassination or infiltration is likely.

Their models strongly hail from the ancient times also  The current Deathmaster Sniktch is very much in line with the AoS range in my view.

[Mayple]

1 hour ago, Kirjava13 said:

Do you mean to imply spec-ops rats with steam punk night vision goggles?

Because I didn't know I needed that until I just typed that sentence.

[DinoTitanedition]

2 hours ago, Jamopower said:

Their models strongly hail from the ancient times also  The current Deathmaster Sniktch is very much in line with the AoS range in my view.

Yeah, he`s quite dynamic, but that`s not what I meant In AoS magic shooty shoty and some fance steampunk like equipment seems much more "normal". So the design and overall equipment options could vary depending on what clan paid for their services. Most modern troopbixes do have multiple weapon and head options, so that could be a way to go. Sigh....wishlisting...I`m good at it, ain't I?

 

[Rogue Explorator]

Finally read the Kharadron Battletome and there is an interesting bit relevant to this thread. One of the shortstories is about Grundstock fighting very shooty Skaven. There is, I quote, "small arms fire". Though skaven always had pistols and rifles, these where always reserved for heroes and right now there are no skaven units with small arms firepower. What I am saying is, there is a precedent in AoS for shooty skaven units.

 

Now, these might be a far bit out (just as we have not heard of Grotback Skuttlers in a while) but I think we will eventually see skaven rifle troops.

Most likely Skryre, but the entire story has a trench warfare vibe, so I now have the image of a WW1 soldiers themed skaven faction (which, with their artillery, Poison Gas, rattling machine guns and Doomwheel "tanks" could still be Skryre).

[elfhead]

I think the malign portents story ties in with te idoneth deepkin fluff. On war of sigmar some fluff bits were posted about archaon ordening skaven to drain an ocean to expose the idoneth. I think that is what happens (accidentaly) in this story. 

[Kyriakin]

6 hours ago, Rogue Explorator said:

Most likely Skryre, but the entire story has a trench warfare vibe, so I now have the image of a WW1 soldiers themed skaven faction (which, with their artillery, Poison Gas, rattling machine guns and Doomwheel "tanks" could still be Skryre).

Death Korps of Squeeg

[Jator]

I step out of my lurking because I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet: We do know how the new skavens will look (and there are "small arms fire"):

Spoiler