Zeblasky

I actually do not quite understand as to why every (or at least every relevant) faction does not get its own subforum. We Cities folk are quite happy that we have one, but why our quite respected vampiric neighbours would not get their own subforum as well, with threads for every bloodline? Nevermind, I've just noticed that subforum has already been created x)

So, while I haven't seen all the leaks, I do have enough information to bring enough counter points about "Blood Knights are nerfed or overpriced". I personally believed them to be around 250 cost when I've seen their profile, they would be quite balanced at that price. But at 195 points they are actually a steal. Sure, 10 movement is simply standard for a heavy cavalry. And sure, Blood Knights do not seem super amazing as combat damage dealers and their rend is quite low. But for their points this damage is very, very good. They outdamage 2 Fulminators (220 points of a very good unit) on the charge (with Fulminators shooting included!) versus 4+ save. And, unlike Fulminators, they will get their charge bonus Every Single Charge Phase. (and too all "oh, but rules say they can't do that!", do you obviously believe that with the intent so clear this issue would not be at the very least clearly FAQed?) And then you add an ability to deal mortal wounds by going over infantry. Depending on number of infantry units in your way, it gives you an average 2-6 mortal wounds per movement phase, so the best way to run BK would be obviously in MSUs. It's a slightly situational ability, sure, but versus 4+ save single infantry unit it's almost 20% increase in average damage in your turn. Add 2 more nearby units, and your BK deal 60% more damage instead. So their actual damage in Soulblight player turn is even higher. And then there is their tankiness, which is frankly amazing. 15 wounds on 3+ save, D3 heal every combat phase with kills, 6+ Restless Dead and then potential 2-3 D3 healing-returning models from their faction gives them A LOT of staying power. But that's the thing - Blood Knights don't want to be staying in the same place! Unless you can kill them outright or block them with a huge conga line of your own cavalry, every movement phase they will choose themselfs a new engagement or will simply refresh their charge bonus. You cannot tarpit them. Infantry screens are pitstops for them and your backline mages and archers are always within their reach. This is kinda unique and again, amazing. So, new Blood Knights are tanky and moderately deadly anti infantry avalanche that you can only stop by killing them or drowning in cavalry. They won't like fighting cavalry or monsters, getting charged first (although for them it's much, MUCH less of an issue if compared to units like Wild Riders or Fulminators) or simply get shot by missile focus fire, so they will still have quite a few nice counterplays. It's not a unit you can take a whole army of (like Eels), it's a unit, that has a clear somewhat specific role that it exels at. But, other than that, all undead players should be very happy to have then at such quite low price point.

So, after doing a bit of mathhammering and thinking, I'd guess that Blood Knights are a great unit, probably costed around 250 points to be properly balanced. And I do find this unit true strenght to be quite interesting indeed. Blood Knights do not seem amazing as damage dealers. There are quite a few other units that can do good charge damage, even 10 Wild Riders (260pts) can outdamage 5 Blood Knights on the charge by 3 wounds versus 4+ save. Sure they will get their charge bonus every single vampire turn, but in the enemy combat phase they do lose almost half of the unit damage. So, their damage seems just quite solid, even if low rend. Their base mobility is also not impressive - 10 move for heavy cavalry is simply standart. But! Their tankiness is quite amazing. 15 wounds on 3+ save, D3 heal every combat phase with kills, 6+ Restless Dead (which probably can still be improved to 5+ and add rerolling ones...) and even probably healing/returning models from faction and heroes magic and abilities gives them A LOT of staying power. But that's the thing - Blood Knights don't want to be staying in the same place! Unless you can kill them outright or block them with a huge conga line of your own cavalry, every movement phase they will choose themselfs a new engagement or will simply refresh their charge bonus. You cannot tarpit them. Infantry screens are pitstops for them and your backline mages and archers are always within their reach. And this I like. New Blood Knights are tanky and moderately deadly avalanche that you can only stop by killing them. They won't quite like fighting a lot of cavalry, getting charged first or simply get shot by missile focus fire, so they will still have quite a few nice counterplays.

They are great in concept, but for now I am quite worried about overwatch reaction. Having a generic CA that gives any ranged unit overwatch with only -1 to hit is a recipy for disaster. Besides the fact, that you can negate that -1, some very powerful ranged units (hello Kharadons and Skaven!) can become unchargeable. It's already not easy getting around screens and tying up ranged units, and this makes it even less rewarding and more risky. Unless you have a few Aeterwings or something simular to throw into overwatch first. And if overwatch reaction CA does stack with certain units own overwatch (and it should, otherwise it would be quite weird), then for those you won't even need screens... Just imagine handgunners under foot general CA or Sisters of the Watch under Hurricanum getting to overwatch twice in a row. That's basically 1 usual attack for Sisters or double shooting phase for Handgunners for a price of a good setup and 1 CP. Sure they will probably die after getting charged, but it will be very hard for them to not pay for themselfs after a single battle round. I actually like shooting armies in this game and I myself am a proud owner of 40 Sisters of the Watch. But I do not think that certain ranged units should become so much self reliant and that the only counter to them would be magic or, well, counter shooting. So I do wish that CA got reworked into something much less risky. But we'll see, may be 3.0 brings enough changes to make my fears irrelevant.

I understand your fears, but I'd say the last thing that can happen is GW killing off Wanderers. Sure, they've squatted good plastic models in the past (poor Empire Knights), but all remaining Wanderer kits are too good and too new. Killing off kits that can easily live for 10 more years without looking dated while you still have such outdated kits like Skaven ones... That would be quite crazy.

I am quite happy for Death players, they sure deserved such a release for quite a while. And while I have zero plans to ever go into any Death faction, I will buy one set of new Blood Knights without a doubt. They are too cool to not collect them.

Dreadlord on a Dragon for those fast flying charges right into the most vunerable unit my opponent has, Treelord for cost efficient tanky roadblock between my Sisters and the enemy, as well as Annointed of Frost Phoenix for being a general nuicance. Dreadlord and Treelord usually start in Hidden path and move after deployment with Living City CA, while Annointed starts in the middle of the field with "COME AT ME" sigh.

Sure, Ironrakes are more reliable in terms of damage, can get crazy buffed to kill half of your opponent table in one turn, and sisters are a bit more RNG dependant. One turn 20 sisters can roll 2 sixes, the other turn they can roll 8. It's not often RNG strikes that hard though, but it does happen. I woudn't say it's bad, it's just different. Sometimes they can be quite underperforming, sometimes they can be amazing and save you the game. But purely on average and unbuffed they still do deal slightly more damage than Irondrakes though. I do actually enjoy how both of those units are differently balanced - one is tanky and reliable with crazy buffing potential, while other is faster and more independent unit with better range and overwatch. Well, the Sorceress + 10 darkshards combo is interesting. Good magic plus some ranged fire support only for 180 points sitting on your backfield objectives. Bad thing is that you can't efficiently bring back sacrificed models here and 9 Darkshards do fall off a bit due to losing plus +1 to hit. You won't get an Honored retinue protection btw unless your sorceress is the General. And even then it's only for 1 Sorceress and, unless you need battleline unlocks, is kinda a waste. I've also run some simulations just for fun, and (without involving magic, all mages buff something else for simplicity) Sisters of the Thorn in Living City on average can take objective from Sorceress +9 darkshards after 2 turns of melee combat, even if Darkshards shot at them before on approach. And they claim objective in 1 turn if they did not. So, who's stonger now? x) On a more serious note, Sisters of the Thorn are more free to be where I want them to be, making my army extremely mobile overall, while still having magic support. Do I need all of firepower and magic on a flank, where I go all in in killing my enemy force? Sisters can make it there in time. Do I need Sisters to hold a backfield objective while casting spells on a unit on the other side of the board? They form a conga line to be in range. And amount of screening their bases provide feels pretty great. They can potentially even screen for deepstriked Sisters of the Watch if needed. Now, I do agree that their true potential lies in Hallowheart, where they get both a big bonus to cast and double the casting. Their tankiness gives you a lot of wounds for a magic heavy army, their mobility helps them to be in range for all of your spells past round 1 (taking first turn with them btw is such a waste) and having 5 models to cast from means that their spells have a bit more range as well. But in Living City having a mobile wizard to compliment a mobile army is quite nice as well.

Rangers are pretty weak, sure, may be one of the worst units in the Cities. But complaining that one of the best (if not the best) of our ranged units price is unfair if compared to kinda broken and the most hated unit in Lumineth (aka fresh release) faction... is not a fair comparison. Sentinels must be nerfed, not the other way around. Maaay be, just may be Sisters deserve something to their survavibility, like +1 to their save (may be even conditional, active only if they moved this round (hello Living City CA)) but that's more of my wishful thinking instead of a good balance advice. They are 130 points 5 models (with big long bases) 10 wounds 5+ save 12 move wizard, that can actually do decent damage to enemies with weak saves (up to 26 4+/4+ attacks, 10 of which are ranged with -1 rend). You can't get cheaper than this for all that versatility and I am still really surprised that only a very few people use them as they can useful for so many things. Just compare them to Sorceress, our best cheap mage as of now. She costs 40 less, has great CA, can get +2 to casts with sacrifice, sure, that's all cool. But that's it. Her tankiness and mobility is much worse, her damage is non existant, she can't screen or contest objectives. Still, sorceress is a great pick. And only for 40 points more so are the Sisters. Sisters spell is very limited though, sure. Great for camping Eternal Guard or camping/teleporting Sisters of the Watch, but that's kinda it. But so what? Sisters still get great selection of spells from Living City lore (and every single one of them is worth casting) and a new Realm spell as well. Plenty of casting choices to go around.

That's why I have 3 fast behemoths in my Living City. Can't shoot or alpha strike Sisters if you're already engaged x)

Losing half of their attacks because of movement is no fun though.

Good thing is that I still have 15 sisters, 5 wild riders and 1 extra box. Bad thing is that if they will be suddenly discontinued for any reason, I will be quite sad x)

Honestly, I would not deploy Nomad Prince near Sisters in Living City in most situations. You need both your CPs and your deepstrike slots for other things, but CPs especially - Living City command ability is always useful, and your hunger for CPs will be insatiable. CP to move your shooting Behemoth, CP to move your Sisters to a new target or away from enemies after they shot, CP for Inspiring presence... Yea, Adjutant is a good idea if you can afford him in your build. Buuut! Sometimes using Nomad Prince CA with Sisters is a viable strategy, for when you really need something to die from your shooting at once. But that's usually when you deploy all of your Sisters in one place and just go all in. However, if you want a non CP support piece, Hurricanum or Knight-Azyros are both quite good options here, especially if they can support 30-40 Sisters that just deployed together.

Actually cost wise they are better than either crossbowmen or handgunners. While stationary they deal slightly more damage than crossbowmen versus no or low saves, much more damage versus high saves and they still have overwatch. They do have less wounds, and 5+ save does not help them much with that. But they still offer the best unbuffed shooting in the whole book, so if you can keep them safe, they will always pay for themselfs and more within 2 turns. As to how you can best use them... The Living City is the most obvious and safe choice - just deploy them from reserve already in range and shoot at whatever you need. Hallowheart and Tempest Eye are the next 2 choices. The most optimal way to move Sisters (potentially together with their infantry screen) without deepstrike is teleportation, so Hallowheart is great for always getting that 6 casting roll on the Soulscream Bridge, buffing your Sisters with spells and protecting them in a blob from your opponent spells and endless spells on 4+ if you so chose. 1-2 Sisters of the Thorn in support are very useful here, as, besides being a mobile wizards, their spell will make teleporting (thus unmoving) Sisters count as being always in cover for the whole game and throwing mortal wounds back in melee as a slight bonus. Tempest Eye instead offers + 1 to wound for Sisters missile attacks and enough mobility for the rest of your army to keep up with the Bridged Sisters. But you have no extra way to buff your casting rolls here, so Sorceress on foot with a block of Coven troops is a good idea.

Hey there to all Skaven players! I got a question for you. While not a Skaven player myself, I've been wondering one thing about Clanrats. Stat wise they look like the best chaff battleline in the game. When they have 40 models, they can have 4+/3+ attacks with their 2 reach spears, 5+ save and 12 bravery. And all that objective control power is only 200 points, which is, well, crazy. And all that without any buff investments. Sure, the more models you lose, the worse Clanrats stats will become, and if your opponent kills 21 Clanrats and you roll 5 or 6 on the battleshock, you will lose all 40. But so what? Your opponent just wasted a lot of his firepower on 5+ save to remove 200 gold from the table. That's like 25 Sisters of the watch shooting at your chaff (400 gold worth of the one of the best ranged firepower in the game). AND even then you can still do Inspiring Presense, if you really want to deny your opponent objective control his turn. So my question is this - is there a reason why Skaven players just don't go for a moving wall of 200 clanrats, flood objectives with models and simply win because their opponent can't kill all of them in time? I mean, sure, 200 clanrats cost almost 400$ and a huuuge time investment, but I'd bet it won't stop meta players from buying a lot of them from second hand. That's 5 units, 4 of them can dominate objectives, while 1 can congaline screen your backline in case of deepstrike threat. And your backline can be... Well, anything really. You still have 1000 gold for Warp Lightning Cannons, Ratling Guns, Stormfiends, anything that deals good damage (preferably ranged I'd guess). If your opponent rushes your backline, you win on objectives control, if your opponent focuses on your frontline, you just kill him with backline focus fire instead. Do I miss something here?

Nurgle mirror matches are the best. Greatly balanced, very friendly and caring.

Thanks! Just needed a conformation, that information I was told previously was incorrect. And yea, this makes Bastilladon (with his igroning rend 1+ save) and Leviadon seem like even more overpowered in my eyes, as their saves degrade only after all unit attacks, including MWs, are resolved. Oh boy...

So, once upon a time on this forum, while discussing Sisters of the Watch, that deal additional 1 MW on the 6 to wound, I've been told that the moment you roll 6 to wound with them, the defending unit immediately suffers a mortal wound. But the rule about MW states that "allocate any MWs that are caused while a unit is attacking at the same time as any other wounds caused by the unit's attacks, after all of the units attacks have been completed". It seems quite clear that in this instance you can't knock off armor from Bastiladon or Leviadon with Sisters MWs before the usual attacks do hit. Instead Mortal wounds get allocated after saves, together with the usual damage, correct?

While this post is a joke, the idea that Deepkin need more models is true. They do need more new models along with a much better internal balance. Eels need nerfs, turtle needs small nerf, thralls need small buffs, and different units may be need a bit more synergy between each other. The "charge it all" eels meta is as stupid as one teleporting frog army. The fact that Eels can be 2+ save now on the first turn... How do you even fight this in the first battle round if you're not Lumineth? You should not accelerate power creep with buffs only mentality, you fight it as best you can.

Btw, I just realised that this list puts Beasts of Chaos into... A tier? I mean, if you just spam Tzeetch beasts, then you can have a semi competitve build ( even thennot sure if it's an A tier material though), but the rest of the army is... Not that great as far as I am aware. But I will derail the conversation further with this, so it just adds to the fact that even tournament data should not be taken purely at face value.

Yea, for its cost and in that army the amount of damage and tankiness Turtle gets for for itself and surrounding troops is simply crazy. Who even thought that buffing an already solid monster so hard and indirectly buffing Eels was a good idea... And that is great! I would rather play with slightly underpowered fun Behemoths than with broken ones, that should be nerfed in the future.

The last time I've checked Idoneth Meta (like a few moth ago) it was Eels, then Eels, followed my... More Eels? Oh, and Aetherwings, of course. And no turtle in sight. Perhaps my knowledge if out of date... *looks up warscroll* oh god it's pure +1 to save now, how did I miss it, Turn 1 Idoneth must be so broken now. Yea, GW needs to nerf Eels, probably Turtle as well (2+save for first 8 wounds is crazy), buff Thralls, give Idoneth a few new inits and finally call it a day. Idoneth should not be a Khorne like but better charge it all army. This is not worth the memes anymore. And I'm not even talking about one teleporting frog army. Living City, not anvilguard. And if you would ask me, who's better in Living City without support, Durthu or Dreadlord, it's always Dreadlord time. Dreadlord is MUCH faster, flies, does decent damage and can threaten backline with ease (hello squishy archers and mages!) Durthu is good for the turn you've dropped him in, but the second he takes 3 wounds, he turns into a Treelord damage wise. Except he's also slower and it may be a while before he gets into combat. That's why I take basic Treelord instead btw, he's 1 inch faster, does not get crippled so hard by his damage table and has the same tanking potential, while costing 180 points. It's a steal for Living City, sure. Now if you would make Durthu a general, give him Ironoak Artisan, and Spear of The Hunt, take a Treelord Ancient for a Wyldwood, Knight Azyros for rr 1 to hit, Hurricanum for a +1 to hit, you get a tanky monster which in melee does almost guaranteed 30 damage with -3 rend on charge with always fights first. Terrifying? Sure. But overkill? Probably. Expensive setup? Yes. Quite a few things can go wrong? Also yes. So it's a Dreadlord for me, Durthu is too weak without guaranteed Wyldwood support. So yea, damage on paper is not everything, not even close. Comparing our Behemoths to S-tier Behemoths (Idoneth, Seraphon, kinda Lumineth) directly does not achieve much. Those needs nerfs anyway, CoS top monsters are not that weak as synergies boost them hard. And sure, most of CoS Behemoths do need big or small buffs. But it's not that huge of a problem.

On their own even the best CoS Behemoths don't look great. It's all about synergies and Command abilities with them. Frost Phoenix with Annointed is the least damage oriented. He instead has a pretty impressive tanking/roadblock potential, gives AOE melee defence and immunity to battleshock for Phoenix Guard near. Tanky model, good synergies all around. Fire phoenix is less tanky, more "running around, spamming MW and having a chance to start over". Still a very good choice, just more risky and requires certain gooning setup. General on Griffon looks... Okay. But add Hammerhall CP generator, artefacts and Command ability, and he becomes quite a great blender. Dreadlord... Well, you do forget about his Breath attack. Situational, sure, hard to use well, yes, but get into combat right near a horde unit of 40 models, pull them in, and you can do around 7 mortal wounds in your next shooting phase. Even if you get 10 models in range, that's still almost 2 MW on average. Oh, and in Living City only Dreadlord can fly 28 (or deepstrike +14) with a single CP, which is pretty great for threatening that squishy backline. I do completely agree though that after huge only self spell buffs from malign sorcery realms are gone, CoS wizard Behemoths need a buff. +1 to their saves and number of casts would be good. Some minor buffs to other Behemoths (may be some limited save rerolls on non Phoenix ones) could be good as well. They do feel a bit squishy for their points.

2x Tempestus Scions (for when I'll go for "The Wall of Guns!" army or may be for some cool handgunners conversions), Maligh Sorcery (because why not, having some endless spells could be worth it one day) and 3x Phoenix Guard (because I don't really want to buy those models, but damn they are strong! And I have a Frost Phoenix already to support them).

This new release really makes me feel cheated. Because I would have loved me a secondary 1000 points LRL skirmishing kangaroo army with those amazing new models as well, but... my wife called dibs on them.