readercolin

You are putting a lot of faith in your rocket batteries. Which is concerning because in your setup, if they concentrate all 3 shots on a single target and are in range of the Cogsmith and Hurricanum they will do ~3 damage each before saves and assuming that there are no minus's to hit. With the battalion, that means that you can get out a total of 24 damage before saves on turn 1, and 12 damage each turn afterwards. And you are spending 700 points to accomplish this. Is that really worth it? To compare, for 710 points you could run a runelord, a battlemage/sorceress, a soulscream bridge, and a 30 man squad of irondrakes. Assuming that they aren't in range for the hurricanum, that squad of irondrakes is going to deal more damage if they have to waddle forward on their stubby legs and shoot (~14 damage before saves), and double that if you can get the soulscream bridge off or your opponent foolishly comes in range. Give them the hurricanum bonus you already have in your army and we are talking ~34 damage before saves. If you are dedicated that you really, really want to run the artillery, then sure, go for it. It is probably one of the better artillery focused lists available. I would consider swapping something out (maybe the hammerers) to also bring a Lord-Ordinator so that your guns are hitting on a 2+ instead of a 3+ (adds ~3 more damage for the guns on average). I would also consider bringing Ghoul Mere Ranger instead of Drillmaster, as your artillery already re-rolls 1's to hit for being near an engineer, which makes drillmaster kind of unnecessary.

While Chaos knights do have a large base size, I don't find them especially hard to get a unit of 5 into combat. 10 is usually a struggle though, unless they can engage multiple units. On the other hand, getting 6 demi's into combat isn't exactly difficult, so in larger unit sizes the base size does make a difference. As for damage wise, the two units are pretty similar from just the base warscroll abilities. While the Demi's can get a +1 to hit from a variety of sources, either as static abilities, command points, or their battalion, Chaos Knights can get bonuses pretty easily from spells, warshrines, and mark buffs. That being said, a unit of Demi's with lances isn't quite as pitiful off the charge as a unit of knights with lances. Also, fully buffed from their Battalion, a unit of Demi's with lances on the charge to slightly less than a unit of Chaos Knights with lances that got full re-rolls (and without any mark buffs). However, Demi's do have a 3+ save, not a 4+ save, so they are slightly more durable than the Knights unless the Knights get to re-roll their saves, but on the other hand the knights have a 5+ save vs mortals that the demi's don't have, and a unit has 3 more wounds for the points. So they are a fairly good comparison. However, when you look at meta play, the Demi-gryph knights don't see competitive play. They have a fun battalion that is great for casual play, but when you look at the cities and you look at their competitive lists, Demi's just straight up don't show up. All the competitive lists are focused on either leveraging the cities shooting power (which if you look at the raw numbers is the best in the game) or are leveraging the sheer magical power that comes from Hallowheart. It can clearly be argued that Demigryph Knights are overcosted and need a points drop. It can also be clearly argued that Chaos knights are overcosted and need a points drop. I would say that both knights can be fixed with a points drop, and they don't really need a rules change. But I would say that both units are overcosted for what they do at the moment.

There are only 2 "Competitive" lists for stormcast at the moment. By competitive, I mean something that can go 4-1 or 3-2 somewhat consistently. These lists are "shootcast", built around a block of 9 longstrikes + anvils of heldenhammer, and "starcast", which is built around 1-2 stardrakes and some other support elements. Neither of these lists run the Ballista+Ordinator combo. However, I would say that this isn't due to them being useless, just that they are a little short of viable at the moment. If you aren't competing at the highest of levels, the Ballista's + Ordinator can be very effective, and I would rate as a solid B tier option to slot into your force (as compared to the A tiered option of the 2 competitive lists). All this being said, this also depends on which points level you are playing at. At 1000 points, I don't feel the ballista's are worth it, as they are too swingy damage wise to be reliable, and the Ordinator doesn't really pull his weight only buffing 2 ballista's, but you aren't allowed to take any more artillery at vanguard point totals. At 2000 points, the package costs 560 points, leaving you just short of 3/4 of your army left to add in. Additionally, to make best use of them, ballista's work better if you can deploy them in Azur to call down within machine gun range of their targets, which means that you have 5 drops in the heavens and it is going to be VERY hard to get any more significant forces in Azur. This means that some of the usual units that stormcast likes to take (ex. Evocators + Gavriel) don't really work as you don't have the space in Azur for that. So you want to put something on the ground that has the mobility/range to touch your targets from a distance. Examples would be the various stormcast cavalry, Longstrikes/Judicators, or even stardrakes. However, you are still going to have to have your battleline, which unless you go judicators is probably best as 3 units of min sized squads of liberators.

I've tried playing undivided, and while having a 6+ from the general and then another 6+ from a warshrine feels really good... you don't do damage. Like, seriously, the damage output from undivided is pitiful. If you are determined that you want to try to play the objective game and control space, you are more than welcome to try. But be prepared to lose a lot of games. Next up, Theddra Skull scryer. She doesn't have Mark of Chaos, and she also doesn't have any of the chaos gods as a keyword. This means that if you run her, you don't get ANY aura buffs. She literally can't have the keyword for any of them. Similarly, the darkoath warqueen and darkoath chieftan are also lacking Mark of Chaos. This doesn't mean don't play them if you really want to. However, be aware that just like the warcry warbands, they can't get any buffs from Mark of Chaos, or carry the marks for other units. Also, be aware that mask of darkness affects a single unit, which means that you can use that to teleport either Thredda OR her band of warriors, but because they are two separate units you can't teleport them together. Lastly, taking a look at the list you posted, you said 2 command points. You are aware that you are allowed to buy a maximum of 1 command point, right?

I think that you may want to re-evaluate Darkshards. Yes, they lack rend, but they always get 2 attacks and with Tempest Eye you can run Hawk Eyed to have them hitting on 3+/3+ without even adding in a hurricanum. This will actually allow a unit of Darkshards to outdamage a similar number of Handgunners unless the handgunners get their General Buff - and importantly here, the darkshards can do this without being forced to sit still. Combining this with the sorceress's command ability, and you get a reasonable offensive unit that can run forward turn 1 11+d6" and still shoot afterwards without its shooting being hindered (note, this is the only decent shooting unit in the cities that can say that, as all the others get bonus's for sitting still). Once again, I think you might want to take a look at the warscrolls, the sorceress, and the city. The sorceress lets any Darkling Coven unit run and still shoot/charge. And the tempest eye city effect of giving +3" move on turn 1 (as well as always +1" to run rolls) gives the infantry heavy lists more mobility than you would expect. This means that the infantry from this army can actually pull off a turn 1 charge (9" move + d6+2" run + 2d6+1" charge gives 12+3d6" threat range on turn 1), while the darkshards can shoot something turn 1 (9" move + d6+2" run + 16" range gives 27+d6" threat range on turn 1). Nothing is saving those corsairs though (except their sculpts... they are pretty). Black guard actually don't really benefit well from the hurricanum. They already get a +1 to hit if they are near a sorceress, which means they will have a 2+/3+ without the hurricanum around. Which just means you can keep your hurricanum near something else. Darkshards can also put out a surprisingly heafty weight of fire, though you are still going to wish you had irondrakes and 2 runelords if you run across Petrifex Elite bonereapers. That being said, both of those units could use to have their numbers maxed out (ok, maybe use darkshards as 2 units of 20 instead of 1 unit of 40).

Is KO expensive? It can be. However, you can also get a 2k point list with the KO half of the Aether Wars box set, 2 start collectings, and your choice of either a frigate or ironclad. Ok, so if you take the frigate and everything from all of those, and then run a Grundstock Escort Wing, that is only 1900 points. But if you take the Ironclad you'll be at 2020 points without any battalions. Is this an ideal, competitive army? Nope. But it is a decent place to get started and decide if you like the army enough to collect some more options. At the moment if you are looking to have a more competitive force, I would recommend looking to build around one of the three battalions. The escort wing is probably going to give you the most general board presence with 3-4 boats going around as central to the build. Meanwhile the Iron Sky Command is the only list that you can effectively pull a 1 drop army off from. Lastly the Iron Sky Attack Squadron is the best for shipping arkanauts around for holding objectives, but definitely packs the weakest punch for taking the smallest available size.

If you are dedicating it solely to slaanesh, I think you are going to struggle to get super excited about it. Lets take a quick look at what StD gives a slannesh player: Exploding 6's near a hero. Lets take a quick look at the Slaanesh battletome. What's this? They already get exploding 6's? And in large groups, double exploding 6's? With no restrictions? Clear win for the Slaanesh book. StD Spells. Slaanesh gets spells as well, but the only one that you would consider going StD for is Mask of Darkness (aka, the teleport). While nice, it isn't exactly something that I'm specifically getting excited about, especially with how hard it is to get this spell off (goes off on a 7, and the only casting bonuses come from Cabalists or the Tzeentch Daemon Prince). StD Endless Spells. Bring a StD wizard. Cast them in Slaanesh anyways. Only real bonus is its a bit easier to bring Tzeentch spells into your StD list than your Slaanesh list. Summoning (marauders/warbands). How about instead of wasting command points (and your allegience ablity) to summon in 70 point bands of marauders once a turn, we summon in Daemon Princes. Yeah... that sounds a Lot better. Clear Slaanesh victory. Casting Bonuses. On a quick check, it looks like Slaanesh doesn't have any. On the other hand, StD only gets this from Tzeentch Daemon Princes (which only affect Tzeentch hero's) or from Cabalists, which in addition to costing you models, only happens on a 3+ (aka, never when you need it). You know... especially when you take a look at Hallowheart, you really have to wonder WHY they tied the Cabalist's casting bonus to a dice roll... Daemon Prince Healing. Cool, you can heal a d3 on a 4+. This again isn't really attracting me to StD. Especially when Slaanesh has sexier Daemon Princes. Archaon w/ battleline varanguard. Its a nice gimmic (that doesn't work at your points level). Heroic Varanguard. This is cool. It isn't something that you are going to find elsewhere. It also isn't particularly great, but you know what, its cool. Non-Slannesh Units. StD can take Khorne, Slaanesh, Nurgle, and Tzeentch units without even needing allies. Now, this has proven rather ineffective (aside from Tzeentch Wizards in an otherwise Khorne list) due to needing hero's for the extra effect bubble, and needing some redundancy as well, but it is available. Battalions. The Slaanesh battalions don't contain mortals (except the White Dwarf ones), so if you want to run a battalion other than the Pleasurebound Warband, StD is better. However, you do run into the issue that all the StD ones are rather overpriced, but hey, you can't have everything. So you go through this list and you ask yourself - am I actually gaining/losing something by going Slaanesh instead of StD or StD instead of Slaanesh? Lets be honest - in most of these cases, Slaanesh allegience is better than StD allegience. The real attraction to StD would probably actually be the ease with which you could play some Tzeentch or Khorne units alongside your slaanesh units. But if you are specifically looking at it as a solely Slaanesh army, the Slaanesh battletome is probably going to win every time.

A few things: First of all, Chaos Warriors should either be taken as MSU sized with only 5 models, or in units of at least 15 models. Why? At 10 models, your opponent needs to do exactly 2 damage to remove their re-roll saves ability. This... is not hard to do for most armies. Additionally, offensively a unit of chaos warriors isn't really something that your opponent has to respect, as their damage output is pretty pitiful. This means that you either take 5 to get MSU objective holders, or you take 15+ so that way you have a solid anvil that isn't moving without your opponent dedicating some serious attention to it (minimum of 12 damage to do to get rid of the save re-rolls). Second, I would not put Iron Golems into my main force, and instead leave them to the side as one of the units that can be summoned in on a table edge. Basically, they are a bunch of chaos warriors with worse damage output that can't take marks, and get their save re-rolls from not moving instead of unit size. They occupy a similar niche to chaos warriors as well. If you were to run 0 chaos warriors, I would consider bringing some in the main force as a somewhat durable screening unit, but with chaos warriors in your list they don't really serve a purpose. Third, the Gorebeast Chariot is terrible. I say this having 2 of them. Offensively, the damage output is truly mediocre, and the only thing it really has going for it is that if it charges multiple units it can do d3 mortal wounds to several instead of just a single target. The only way to make them semi-usable is to put them in a ruinbringer warband and use them as overly expensive mortal wounding cruise missiles. A purpose that is also better served by the basic Chaos Chariot. If you insist on running one, go for it, but just be aware that your army would likely be improved by taking a command point and still playing down 100 points. Fourth, Chaos Knights. They FAQ'd them. You have to chose either lances or ensorcelled weapons, and you cannot mix and match. From personal experience, I would say that 9/10 you will do better with ensorcelled weapons vs lances, but you do you. Fifth, from my own experience, ravagers are fun and fluffy and you would do better to drop them and run despoilers instead. If you insist on running ravagers for fluffy reasons, then go for it. But I've found that StD eat command points like candy already, and Ravagers just demand even more to get their summoning going. However, they have no real way to generate CP's, which means that you are asking even more from an already CP starved army. All this being said, if you are wanting to run around a Chaos Warrior core, I would look to run the Plaguetouched Warband, which requires 8 mortal units in your army and can reflect mortal wounds back before you even start saving against them. I would run something like this: Ravagers from Ulgu, all with Nurgle mark Chaos Lord on Karkadrak Command Trait: Flames of Spite Artefact: Dimensional Blade (on ax) Chaos Sorcerer Lord Command Trait: Bolstered by Hate Artefact: Mark of the High Favored Spell: Mask of Darkness Chaos Sorcerer Lord Master of Deception Spell: Mask of Darkness 15 Chaos Warriors 15 Chaos Warriors 5 Chaos Knights 40 Chaos Marauders Warshrine Plaguetouched Warband Command Point Darkfire Daemonrift Iron Golems would then be summoned in on a board edge. Warriors can be buffed by Warshrine to have a 3+ save and re-roll wounds, which gives you re-rolling hit and wound rolls with that backing them up. Note that this army is going to be dealing more damage by your opponents hitting themselves due to your battalion than due to you actually killing them. The only thing in this list that has good damage output is the block of marauders and the Karkadrak (note, the Karkadrak does almost as much damage as a block of 15 warriors to a 5+ save, and more to a 4+ save... which is either saying good things about the Karkadrak or Very, Very bad things about the warriors...)

If you are going to do something like this, I think it is important to consider bringing a Lord-Ordinator. Most of your guns are hitting on a 3+, and changing that to hitting on a 2+ is pretty strong. It will restrict your mobility some to try to get many of the guns in range of the Ordinator, but if you can get 4 in range of the ordinator then he will add more damage than a 5th gunhauler would.

Hey, hey, they still require you to roll dice if they are in melee, even if nothing ever happens from doing so.

Phoenix guard are excellent elite infantry. Arguably one of the best. As for how to use them? A single block of 30 makes for an excellent anvil. This is especially good when you are doing a deathstar with the soulscream bridge, as you can bridge forward, drop the guard as an extremely hard to remove defensive roadblock, and then have a ton of shooting hiding behind that. Here you aren't really doing anything specific to enable the phoenix guard, you are just using their raw warscroll power to allow you to focus much of the rest of your list on obliterating your opponent. That being said, you are probably running a hurricanum if you are doing this, and they still appreciate the +1 to hit. For a larger number, where you are using the guard as your primary unit (ex. you want a "phoenix temple" force), then using multiple minimum sized units moving around is a reasonable option. You can deploy 50-60 of them in 5-6 squads, and basically have extremely hard roadblocks for your opponent to deal with, while using something else to be the primary hammer for your force (ex. Phoenix's, or a bunch of mages + endless spells, or shooting units, etc.). This allows you to spread the board well and still be hard to move. This youtuber has a good intro to how he uses them in this way, as well as several battle reports that are focused around his phoenix temple force. If you want to go super heavy into a phoenix temple force, and field 3 blocks of 30 guard though, you are definitely moving away from what Cities is good at and starting to look more like a Fyreslayers army (except you have phoenix guard instead of hearthguard berzerkers). Here there are only 3 cities that I would consider running like this - Hammerhall, Tempest Eye, and Hallowheart (and probably in that order). Hammerhall gives you 4 things that are interesting. First, it lets you get a command point on a 6 for every unit you have with a banner, so you have a few extra command points floating about. Second, it lets you spend a command point to pile in and attack twice if it is wholly within enemy territory, which gets you some extra damage out of your large blocks of Guard. Third, it gives you the Twin Stones, which basically lets you turn 1 of your hero's into a hurricanum that only affects melee attacks (and hitting on 2's is soooo nice). Fourth, your general can take either aggressive general (do if you put your artifact on another hero) to let you get another +1 to hit bubble, or if you have your general carry the twin stones he can take blood of the twelve, and let your units re-roll wound rolls of 1, which means that around your general your guard are 2+/3+rr1 to hit/wound. This lets you save your command points so either another unit can use the annointed's command trait, or so you can use them for the pile in and attack again ability. Tempest Eye gives you 3 interesting things. The first is the turn 1 extra movement, which will allow you to get into position more quickly and the extra 1" to run rolls is also nice. The second is the Zephyrite Banner, so you can re-roll charges without needing a command point to do so. And the third is Aura of Glory, giving all your guard around your wizard +1 attacks. Lastly, Hallowheart gives you magical support. This is for when you decide that you really want to run wizards after all, even though you just spent 1360 points on 3 blocks of 30 guard and 1 annointed. But hey, wizards are cool, and potentially enough to carry the game by themselves, which takes some of the weight off of the Guard's shoulders. Overall, the only other thing that you should really be aware of is just how good the Phoenix guard are with the Emerald Lifeswarm. To the point where I would say bringing a wizard with that spell to support them should be mandatory. With a 4++ save, the guard are effectively 2 wound models that can still bring d6 models back from the emerald lifeswarm. It effectively brings back d6 * 2 models back.

I am not a particularly great player, though I like to think that I am decent. However, there is something that I've discovered through trial and error about list building and playing. You have to have a number of units that your opponent has to respect. What do I mean by that? Take for example, stormcast. If you drop a block of evocators (foot or mounted), they are strong enough that they can obliterate most units that they run into. However, at the same time, if I only have a single unit that my opponent has to respect, it is relatively easy to neutralize that one unit. They can blow it up with shooting, neuter its offensive power with magic, screen it with stuff they don't care about, etc. So you have to have multiple credible threats. And if you want to really make them work for it, diversify what those threats are. Having 2 threats on the board that are looking to run at your opponent, charge them, and plow through is nice, but it might be more effective to have 1 threat that is going to run them over in melee, and another that can kill off key support pieces at range, or blow apart screens to allow your melee threat to get at jucier targets. Next, you have to have to remember that this is an objective based game. You can, as a matter of fact, win the game without any models left on the board. Remember to always play to the objectives. If you have a choice between eliminating an opposing unit or holding an objective, evaluate which of those options is going to get you closer to winning the game. Is that a unit that can take you off objectives in the future and score more points? Or is holding the objective and getting those points going to bring you back into the game/seal the game away. Last, remember to keep the double turn in mind, and play around it. If you went first, there is about a 45% chance that your opponent will get two turns in a row. Can you do enough damage/are your units safe enough to survive that? If your opponent went first, you have about a 45% chance of going next. Can you use this to your advantage. Also keep in mind that you have to play to your outs. Is your only way to win to sit and hope your opponent doesn't get the double? Then play towards that and ignore the chance of your opponent going. Is your only way to win to play to the double yourself? Then play towards your outs. Hope all this helps. You are probably going to struggle with all of this to start, but time and practice will help you get better.

What are the base models used for those? At a guess, I would say Karic Acolytes with different shields and some maybe some weapon swaps? Also maybe some head swaps? Lastly, what are these guys supposed to be? Freeguild guard with sword+shield is what is popping into my head, but I'd be interested to know if you were planning them to be something else.

To go with what @Sttufe said, drops are units that are placed on the table during set up. So if I have an army of say, 1 Endrinmaster w/ Suit, 2 frigates, and 2 arkanaughts, I have an army that is 5 drops, because I must place each unit one at a time. However, battalions allow you to place any number of models in the battalion at once. This means that if I were to run the Iron Sky Attack Squadron, I can place the frigates and Arkanaughts into that battalion. This means that I can now put the endrinmaster down, and then both frigates and arkanaughts can come down all at once. Alternatively, if I know that my opponent has say, 4 drops, I could go ahead and put the endrinmaster down, then 1 frigate, and then the other frigate + both arkanaughts, and still be guaranteed to finish deploying my army before they can. Alternatively, if they are a 3 drop army, I can put my endrinmaster down, and then both frigates and both arkanaughts all at once, once again finishing deploying before my opponent. So why are drops important? According to the rules, at the beginning of the game, you and your opponent roll off to determine who gets to choose which side of the table they want to play on, and who gets to place the first unit on the table. Again, according to the rules, whoever finishes deploying first gets to decide who gets to go first/second. This means that if you have fewer drops than your opponent, you will finish deploying your army before they do, and you will get to decide who gets to go first/second. So how important is deciding who gets to go first? Well, that really depends upon your army. Conventional wisdom says that most armies want to go second, so that way they can try to get the double turn. However, some armies and some missions would rather go first - usually armies that have some way of eliminating much of the opposing forces before that player even gets to go. Because of the extreme mobility of Kharadron Overlords, strong arguments can be made that they want to go first, so that way you can shoot off all your opponents key pieces before they even get to move. However, equally strong arguments can be made that they want to go second, so that way they have a chance of getting in 2 turns of shooting before the opponents get to swing back. How does this all play out in the end? Generally, each player starts the game and shares how many drops they have. If you have fewer drops, you can be more/less aggressive in your deployment, because you know that you will be able to decide who is going first. If your opponent has fewer drops, you need to decide - do you want to drop your units right on the line to get in to the action right away? Or do you want to deploy farther back to prevent your opponent from going first and hitting you before you can do anything? But then if you deploy farther back, can you accomplish anything if your opponent gives you the first turn? And what happens when you deploy farther back, can't really affect much, and then your opponent gets the double turn and charges you anyways? All these questions are why drops matter, and how they affect deployment. And the fact that your opponent has to answer those questions if you have fewer drops is why most competitive players want the fewest, so that they can be the ones asking those questions, not having to answer them.

This is an interesting idea for a way to play. However, I don't have any troggoths of any type. So, what do I have? Chaos Army: Warriors, Knights, Warshrine, sorcerers, lord on foot and daemonic mount, daemon prince, and some chariots. What comes to mind here would be instead of taking down a troggoth king, dealing with an incoming chaos warband. II think that for best results, I would replace the Rockguts with a unit of 5 warriors, the fellwaters with a unit of 5 knights, and the dankhold with a chariot, or maybe with a chaos lord (on foot or mount). Finally, I would replace the troggoth king with a Daemon Prince. To replicate the healing, I would have that on a 4+, another model can be added to the unit of warriors/knights if it is missing one. Order Armies: Stormcast Eternals: I could see running this if I wanted to run a chaos force to play this out, with the idea that instead of dealing with a chaos warband, chaos is dealing with a stormcast scouting party. Here I have Sequitors, Castigators, Evocators, Evocators on Dracolines, ballista's, fulminators, and a few different heroes. I could see doing the same as with the chaos force above, using sequitors in place of fellwaters, evocators (either) in place of rockguts, and fulminators in place of the dankhold troggoth. Then the troggoth king would be replaced by a lord-arcanum on gryph charger, and then I would let him in the action phase also cast a spell - either arcane bolt if he is unharmed, or his warscroll spell if he or a fulminator/evocator is damaged. Once again, to replace the healing, on a 4+ a model can be re-added to a unit if a model has fallen for foot units, while mounted units can get back d3 wounds. Kharadron Overlords: A irritating band of pirates has shown up and is now harrassing the area. Deal with them! Here I would look to replace the rockguts/fellwaters with arkanauts, thunderers and endrinriggers, and then replace the dankhold troggoth with a gunhauler. Then the troggoth king would be replaced with a frigate - loaded with arkanaughts when it comes in! However, I would say that the behavior table should change. In combat options should be retreat and hold (1-3 being retreat, 4-6 being hold), close rephrased to "in gun range", with options being hold position (and shoot), and charge (1-4 being shoot, 5-6 being charge), and far rephrased as "out of range", with options being hold and advance (1-3 being hold, 4-6 being advance). For healing, small models on a 4+ get d3 wounds worth of models returned to the unit, while ships heal d3 wounds. Cities of Sigmar: You have discovered a local city encroaching on your territory. Remove them - with prejudice. Here, I would look to replace the rockguts/fellwaters with any non-behemoth battleline unit, and the dankhold troggoth with a wizard/sorceress - with the emerald lifeswarm. Here, the wizard would attempt to cast the lifeswarm every turn to heal up the other units, and would always act first. Then the other units would look to either get in range and shoot, or get in range and charge. Between battle rounds, the emerald lifeswarm would act like a normal endless spell, and if it is on the table of their units are un-injured, then the wizard would instead cast arcane bolt. No other healing would be available to the cities outside of the lifeswarm. Then, the Dankhold Troggboss is replaced by one of the big models for cities - A phoenix, griffon, or dragon, depending upon what you feel like bringing out. Some work would be required for the behavior table though. I think that these are some interesting variations on this little campaign, while keeping a similar feel to it. No matter what forces you want to bring against them, I could totally see the narrative playing out when facing down a chaos warband (even if you are bringing your own), or dealing with some Kharadron Pirates, or some cities outcasts. Stormcast are a little harder to face off against and maintain a narrative if you are hunting them down with an order army, but I could totally see any other grand alliance taking them on. I'll have to test this out sometime and see how it plays out - after all, I can use some more excuses to bring out my pretty models, or finish painting new ones.

The list looks fine. However, I'm not really seeing what is attracting you to greywater fastness with this force. Re-rolling 1's to hit with ranged attacks is something that you can do with command points. You could get better shooting by taking this exact same force and going tempest eye with hawk eyed. Choking Fumes can also be replaced by another cities spells without any real significant change. Bringing your gunners in from the edge of the board with living city gives you more mobility. So why are you interested in running greywater fastness? If you were running around and trying to take advantage of Ghoul Mere Ranger, I could see greywater being useful. If you were running around with gyrocopters with 11" steam guns, I could see running greywater. If you were trying to push your ironweld arsenal war machines to new heights, I could see running greywater. But the benefits you are getting from greywater are fairly minimal, and don't really stand up when compared to running another city. So what is your reasoning?

Lets go over those units one by one. Darkshards are great. 20-60 of them are playable in basically any city, though they do work best in Tempest Eye because of "Hawk Eyed" giving a +1 to wound bubble. Note that the Sorceress can give them run + shoot/charge as a command ability, they don't need to worry about city provided effects to get that. Dreadspears are... ok. Not great, but at 90 points per 10, well, you get what you pay for. However, there are 2 things that they stand out for. First, as a unit of 20, they can be a general's Retinue, which means that the general can shrug wounds off on to them. Second, they are darkling coven, and relatively cheap, so you can sacrifice them pretty easily for the +2 to cast bonus, and you aren't losing overly much by doing so. If I was running a Darkling Coven based force, I would definitely be looking to bring a brick of 20 of them for those 2 purposes, and it counts as battleline as well too. Corsairs are terrible. You either have them built with 2 weapons, with one wounding on a 5+ and the other on a 4+, and they only get 1 attack each. Or you have one blade at a 5+ to wound and then a pathetic 5+/4+ ranged attack that you only get a 9" range on. However, with the right support they can actually be interesting. Notably, if you have them wholly within 12" of a fleet master, he can give them +1 attacks on their weapons, which if they are duel wielding is +2 attacks. Additionally, if you are running tempest eye and you have a wizard wholly within 12" who casts Aura of Glory, they get another +1 attacks on each of their weapons. Arguably, this is a waste of a command point and a spell, but if you like the models and want to experiment with them, giving a block of 30-40 of them (I would take 40 just because the last 10 only cost 40 points) unleashing with 6 attacks per model gives meaning to the phrase "Quantity has a quality all of its own". No, you aren't getting all 40 in attacking, but on 25mm bases they can fight in 2 ranks and getting 20 of them in isn't too tough. 20 guys attacking with 3 attacks per weapon is still ~34 damage before saves. If only there was an easy way to give them +1 to wound... Drakespawn Knights are terrible. I have argued that they are the worst warscroll in the book. That being said, someone did manage to take a block of 15 and place at a tournament back in... March? February? Its been a bit and this whole corona virus thing is really throwing off my timing, but someone did do well with a block of them in their army. About all that they are good for is running up and sitting on an objective and being relatively tough to move, because they certainly aren't dishing out the damage. But, 10 wounds on a 3+ save with a 10" move is tough for some armies to move, making them a somewhat expensive but premier chaff unit. Kharybdiss are... mediocre. But you know, for 170 points they aren't that bad, as long as you don't mind them occupying a behemoth slot. They also can get buffed by a fleetmaster (though it probably isn't worth the command point), but if you aren't worried about making a super competitive army, they can be fun. Also, I totally want to make an Anvilguard force that runs a few Kharybdiss/Hydra's for battleline, and then some black dragons for command, and just laugh at the monster mash. Would it be a terrible force? Yes. Would it be funny? Heck yes. Overall, you can get a few cities to work with what you have. My top recommendations are for Tempest Eye and Hallowheart, but you could probably get something interesting to happen in the living city, hammerhall, or anvilguard as well. What I would start out with: Sorceress General Sorceress Adjutant Black Ark Fleetmaster 40 Corsairs 20 Darkshards 20 Darkshards 20 Dreadspears Honored Retinue This gives you 1100 points and 3 battleline units, giving you a solid start to your army. How you fill out the rest depends upon which city you choose. If you want to go with Hallowheart, you are going to focus more on magic, and I would look to finish filling out your army with the following: Knight-Incantor Either Hurricanum or Luminark w/ mage (I lean more towards hurricanum, but luminark is a reasonable option) 5 Drakespawn Knights 5 Drakespawn Knights Everblaze Comet Emerald Lifeswarm Burning Head With this, you get the incantor + comet, and a large-wound wizard to use your command ability on to get +d6 to your casting rolls on, as well as the lifeswarm and burning head (optionally, swap those 2 for Soulscream Bridge). With other shooters, I would recommend the bridge, but darkshards can actually hit your opponents if they deploy on the line with run+shoot if you feel that is worth it turn 1. Because you are running Sorceress's and can get +2 to cast without the command ability, I don't particularly feel whitefire retinue is needed, saving you some points there. Then you have some points left, so I decided to just throw your drakespawn knights in to hold objectives, leaving the rest of your force to move forward as a deathstar. If you prefer to go for tempest eye, I would instead look to fill out the rest of your force with the following: Hurricanum 20 Darkshards (fill out a unit to 40) 30 Black Guard The key thing here is that you can spend a command point to let a unit of darkshards run + shoot, which is a range of 11+d6 movement turn 1 alongside a 16" crossbow range, giving you a threat range of 27+d6". Going with that, a command point would let your black guard run+charge turn 1, which is 12+3d6 threat range turn 1. Also, between Celestial Visions, Adjutant, and possibly the Seerstone Amulet (its either that or Zephyrite banner IMO) you will get 1-4 command points a turn.

To add on to what @Boar said, it is about lowering drops, not ignoring battleshock. With the Iron Sky Command, you get the following: 1 Ironclad 3-4 heroes 1 unit of battleline Arkonaughts 1-3 units of potentially battleline endrinriggers This means that you can build the following: Endrinmaster w/ Dirigible Suit (general) Navigator Khemist Ironclad 20 Arkanaughts 6 Endrinriggers 6 Endrinriggers 6 Endrinriggers Which comes out to 1830 points, and only a single drop. It also gets us all of our battleline requirements (and then some), while having options for what hero's we want to bring in. We then have 170 points that we can fill out, probably with a gunhauler to give us a 2 drop list. Or we can swap the navigator for a 2nd khemist, and run a block of 40 Arkanaughts to have our entire army as a 1 drop list. Or add in an Admiral, and we have 30 points to spare. Meanwhile, if we wanted to run a Grundstock escort wing, we are forced to use Skywardens instead of Endrinriggers, which are mathematically worse in combat than the endrinriggers in any skyport other than Barak-Zon. Otherwise, we are adding to our drops. Additionally, we only have battleline in the battalion if we use skywardens and have a suit as our general (2 drops already), or if we run Barak-Urbaz to make gunhaulers battleline, or if we run Barak Nar we can get the thunderers to count as battleline (but still need 2 more units). This basically boils down to you being very limited with which skyport you want to take to get sufficient battleline, or you are looking at a minimum of 4-5 drops in your army. In general, the fewer drops your army is the greater your advantage in competitive play. Having 1-2 drops is giving you the choice of who goes first something around 90% of the time competitively. Having 4-5 drops drops this down to 50-60% chance of having the choice. If you want more exact numbers, I believe that Honest Wargamer did a review of what lists people were bringing to a tournament with more exact numbers.

If you like the look of the big chaos warriors and chaos knights, then keep an eye on StD when they come out with the points update this summer/next winter. At 100 points per 5, chaos warriors are overpriced garbage. At 80 points per 5, we are now looking at 20 of them being barely more than 40 marauders, and while the marauders are killier, the warriors will at least stand out as being the tankier option (unlike now, where 15 warriors take about the same number of wounds as 40 warriors do, even after taking saves into account). Similarly, while at 180 points per 5 Knights are overpriced, if they drop to 150 points per 5, then they start becoming more interesting to look at. Still not necessarily competitive compared to marauders, but I can already get Knights to do some work, and saving 120 points when running 20 of them opens up a good amount of space. Lastly, if they FAQ the warbands either to give them a god keyword, or the undivided keyword, or the ability to take a keyword, they immediately become a good bit better than they currently are. This might happen with the release of a new General's Handbook, though I would expect that this probably wouldn't happen this summer, but might happen the one afterwards. Alternatively, if they just decide to update the warscrolls to be a bit more competitive in a generals handbook, then they might become playable. Just some things to keep in mind if you like the look of the army but not the current playstyle.

For me, it has taken a little while to find an army that I like. I started off with a collection of high elves from 5th edition, and trying to use them in AoS lead to very poor gameplay experiences. So I went and build a stormcast army, because I decided to get the soul wars box and go from there. However, while that army worked ok, and was able to win me games, I wasn't really attached to that army. So I went for Order Draconis, because that let me use my old high elf models and let me get a few more... and then they were discontinued while I was in the middle of building them. So then I grabbed cities of sigmar just to continue using those models, but couldn't decide where to go with the army. Then I decided to grab Slaves to Darkness, because I liked the looks of the models, but was once again disappointed with the gameplay. Now I'm grabbing a Kharadron army as a hobby project that might end up making the table. But I keep coming back to the cities. I have a small Order Serpentis force (the leftovers of my Order Draconis list). I have a small Phoenix Temple force. I can bring in my stormcast as part of my army. I can bring in KO as part of my army. I am getting enthusiastic about my cities army, and what models I want to add to it next. The best part - I can totally run my army as a narrative force, or as a competitive list. However, it does mean that I need more models. Instead of stopping with a 2k list, I instead need something like 5k points of the army to be able to switch things around between the two types of play - and that isn't even counting the stormcast or KO units. I think that is what it all comes down to. If you aren't a dedicated "competitive only" player, but you still don't want to get stomped every game, you need to find an army that you like and collect more than just 2k points for it. If you don't find a force that you like, one that doesn't speak to you, you aren't going to want to collect more than the bare minimum for that army. However, if you don't collect more than the bare minimum, you will either have a competitive force, or a non-competitive force, and you won't be able to change that up. Additionally, when that army gets a new book, then your previous force will change, and then you will have to gather more units to maintain a competitive force, or sell it off and find a new army. But if you do find that army that speaks to you, and you are willing to collect more of it, then you can have your various fluffy portions that you pull out when you want beer and pretzels gameplay. And you have enough pieces you can put together an actually competitive army when the only people who want to play at the moment are running tournament lists.

Some points: Re-read the dracolines warscroll. Make special note of the accepted weapons loadout. Note that you are allowed a maximum of 2 grandstaves per 3 kitties. Second, a pack of 3 kitties is enough of a murder ball for meeting engagements, where the most you will face is 2x min sized units. However, from experience, they just don't do enough in larger games, and you are going to be disappointed in how they perform unless you get a block of 6 going. Additionally, having only a 4+ save, they just aren't resilient enough to take a hit, and having 2 units means you will attack with the first unit, and then watch the second get wrecked before it can go in combat. Third, cleansing phalanx exists so that you can have buffed blocks of sequitors. If you are doing that, why are you wasting your points on the more expensive evocators? If you are that desperate for a buffed block, you can also just swap your lord-arcanum for a gryph charger or astrea soulbright (note, she can't take artifacts or command traits, but she can get the mount trait). Then you can use that 120 points saved to get something else, like a knight-heraldor. If you are playing on TTS, and you want something that can handle, say, OBR, then stop messing around with sequitors. You aren't tied into models you own there, and you can easily swap those 640 points of sequitors + battalion for 200 points of liberators and 440 points of additional threats. Like evocators? 440 points is enough for 10 foot evocators, and then you can just swap the Castellent out for gavriel and have a double evocator threat. Want range to be able to punch out targets? For 340 points you can bring 6 longstrikes, and then use the 100 points remaining for Comet. Or drop the castellent as well and bring 9 longstrikes for 510 points, and have 50 points remaining to buy a command point - then switch to anvils so you can shoot in your hero phase. Alternatively, drop the Lord-Arcanum now that you don't need sequitor battleline, and run a knight-incantor + comet for only 20 points more than the lord-arcanum. Really want to try to make sequitors work? Drop the battalion, and take a block of 20 + 5 liberators, and use the 100 points remaining for a knight-heraldor so you can get them into position properly. Stormcast battleline units are easily the worst in the book. Yes, sequitors are probably the best battleline unit that the stormcast have, but that doesn't mean that they are good. Stormcast's strength is in their non-battleline units - the evocators, the longstrikes, the ballista's, etc. I recommend stopping trying to make the battleline into something more than objective holders, and instead put your power where it will actually hurt your opponents.

The easiest way is to use a calculator. I like https://aos-statshammer.herokuapp.com/ When you put in the stats for the ballista, add in a field for "exploding hits", and then say that it is exploding into d6 - 1 hits (it adds it as additional hits, so since you will always have at least 1, you just take the d6 and subtract the baseline one). So in rapid fire, a ballista w/out ordinator will do 3.11 damage to a 5+ save, while with an ordinator it will do 4.67 on average. Without rapid fire, a ballista does 1.56 damage without an ordinator, or 1.94 with one. For reference, a hellstorm that focuses on a single target with a +1 to hit and an engineer around will do the exact same damage as a ballista without ordinator support at short range. If you can give it a +2 to hit, then it gets to halfway between an un-buffed and a buffed ballista. However, it is doing this damage all the way out to 39" in grewater fastness, while the ballista is only doing that out to 18.

I've debated grabbing an ironclad + 15 thunderers + Celestial Hurricanum (general w/ thermalrider cloak + hawk eyed). However, while this is a neat idea, Ironclad + 15 thunderers is 870 points... that is a HUGE portion of the army. Knowing that you need to get at least 6 other units in the remaining 1130 points is also rather rough. Its doable, but I'm not sure that it is going to carry its weight. What I'm actually more interested in is grabbing a few gunhaulers. Load them with drill cannons and they can potentially do 3 mortals across the board. Load them with cannons, and at 24" they only need +1 to hit to hit on a 2+/2+. Also, if you take 3 of them, you still have 1500 points for the remaining 9 units that you will have to bring along. If you are going to run them though, there are 2 things that I am looking at to get good points and units coverage. The first is the freeguild general + 3 handgunners. For 400 points, this gives us a solid block for both shooting and screening. Additionally, that gives you 3 long rifles which you can use to pick off opposing hero's. The second thing I'm looking at is units of individual gyrocopters. At 70 points a piece, they are fast, and they give you a solid gameplan against hordes, while an ironclad or gunhaulers gives you pretty good damage against monsters/elite units.

The big thing for Hedonites is that they have a trait where 6's explode army wide. However, if you bring a unit of 20+, they don't explode into 1 extra hit, they explode into 2. Since the minimum size of a unit of marauder is 20... well, until they start dying, they always explode into 2 hits. This is on top of having a generally good stat profile (2 attacks, 3+/4+/-1), which means about 1/3 of the attacks you make are going to hit on average, and you get a unit that can throw a lot of flack downrange. On top of this, if you bring either the warshrine or a sorcerer, you can give them full re-roll hit and wound rolls. So what makes them good in StD vs other tomes? Std can give them a "bubble" of bonuses. For slannesh... this is probably worse, as that bubble is exploding 6's to hit. For Khorne, they can get re-roll 1's to hit, and if near your general +1 to wound, but if you are running them Khorne allegiance you can give them prayer effects (+1 save, +1 to hit, etc), as well as having easier access to +1 attacks. For nurgle, StD gives +1 damage on wound rolls of 6, while the nurgle allegiance gives them various effects from the Cycle of Corruption, as well as access to some reasonable spells (blades of putrefaction look great with marauders...), and they can run + charge if they start their charge near(ish) a feculant gnarlmaw. For tzeentch marked... StD gives nothing of note, while for Tzeentch allegiance, um, well, they can easily get the Reckless Abandon gifts of worship? However, beyond just the bubble of bonuses, the other thing that StD really gives the marauder is a single spell - Mask of Darkness. Why is this important? It teleports them anywhere on the board more than 9" away from an enemy unit. Remember, marauders are guaranteed a minimum 8" charge (lowest dice becomes a 6, and they get +1, so double 1's gives you 8"). This is the real reason why you want to be running marauders in Slaves to Darkness vs another faction. However, it is a casting value of 7, so it isn't all that reliable (especially in the face of counter magic). Basically, if you have a pack of marauders, they will pull their weight in basically any battletome. The "bubble" of bonuses + spells generally gives a little bit more power/flexibility in Slaves than in other factions. However, if you want to run them in another faction, they will pull their weight pretty well.

Here you are clearly wrong. Remember, Cities has the dead weight of its own poor warscrolls AND the dead weight of all the bad stormcast warscrolls. /s