mmimzie

Yes!! that's definitly the vibe i want, but i wish marauder had a new sculpt.

These are the stand out units to me: Daemon princes are really awesome now. They always fight at the top of the turn meaning you can use 2-4 as like a single unit fighting at the top of the order, or they can compete with salnnesh. The khorne one is even more nastey as an aura of halves charge ranges means they can take priority in picking fights. The other variants can also be used in conjunction with each other. ONly thing is to get a real power house killing force against some units you may need to bring all 4 into a fight, unless artifacts and command abilities can bring up thier damage some. Splintered fang + Darkoath chieftan +option warqueen is spooky. They play in the activation wars getting access to on death attacks, and can be made more deadly getting access to rerolls to hit with sorcerer to fish for 6s, potentialy +1 attack from the endless spell, and potential double pile in from the chaos lord. When used on a budget, just 1 CP and 1 Sorcer's buffs giving them reroll hits (meaning you can reroll all none 6s) you can get splintered fang throwing on average 13.44 mortals into a keeper of secrets if they are forced to attack last. If they get any other buffs and anything that touchs them is pretty much done. Knights with sorcerer and Chaos lord support: These nights get kinda nasty as 10 can roll around with a 4+ rerolling save. They have that reach to charge in hard, and the double attack works well on them as they'll likely live to utilize it. More over they are battleline, so they won't feel like a tax. Darkoath Chieftan lets any warcry warband or maurders unit play in activation wars, and do so better. Meaning you can get a whole units worth of attacks in when normal you'd only get 2 ranks worth of attacks (assuming i am translating right). This is pretty nuts on just about anything. Even chaos knights charging into attack first units can get some real damage in. This seems to be an aura and not a single unit meaning multiple units can fight and all of them can have models activate on death. Chaos lord: seems pretty decent. Good for buffed knights on the charge as them rerolling save lets them be really durable. His attacks aren't bad either. Darkoath warqueen: Lets your marauders and warcry warbands grow legs. You can hit 2 or maybe 3 units with this ability. Similarly this is a big aura ability meaning you can get a lot of units with this. More over the war queens job is likely done early getting your army up the table. Great because she's also a strong character sniper now with her buffed attack numbers and fights first ability. With alittle artifact or command ability help she could be a real force. Sorcerer got buffed: He lets you just flat reroll meaning modifiers don't matter and for abilities that work on unmodified 6s you can fish for them. gaunt summoner got his summoning rule updated: No longer do you need the portal, He comes pre packed with either a 10 squad of daemos or furies. The pink horrors would be a good idea giving you access to a another spell per turn and they get +1 to cast while hanging around the summoner, and great for chucking generic endless spells. Also with the pinks being summoned forward of the summoner, they can throw endless spells from the starting line accross the table more effectively. If he's under 250 he's a great include for a 2 cast wizard who splits into a 3 cast wizard. His spell got buff/nerfed. range is more forgiving, but less damage. Also if for a wizard list 4 gaunts and a lord of change wouldn't be bad start giving you tons of spells and the lord's command ability giving them all +1 to cast. Realmscorge Rupture: If you bring 2 or more cast in your list, realm scourge rupture seems like an auto include. It's always going the same way and can halve movement. It's a good spell and is tough to dispel. Though 7 is abit steep of casting cost, you'll definitly want a bonus. Eightfold doom-sigil: seems either amazing or terrible. It read to me as basicly if you opponent went last turn all models in 12" either didn't take damage or all have +1 attack. Your opponent has much of the control over this. The Darkoath Chieftan giving a attack again after death that bonus attack on your own turn can make units realy threatening even of defense. I had to translate though so i don't know if you can use it on your enemy's turn. It can be terrible as your opponent does get the option to either ignore you huge ball of units or tear into them. That said if they can break enough stuff, doing damage just means you'll have just about every unit in the area buffed up. Darkfire Daemonrigt: This is the endless spell you put in that wizard slaves to darkness list. With multiple wizard maybe 4 pink horror units and 4 gaunt summoners that's +8 mortal wounds alone. On top of stacking endless spells in the area you can have a powerful endless spell. More over double moving said spells will decimate large areas. This said your 2nd move will likely take you outside of 12" from your wizards as if it comes back your way you are in big trouble. Untamed beast, iron golem, and unmade: All seem great in thier own right, and i don't think need much explaining. I'm liking the idea of a ravager using knights, splintered ranges, and some of the other warcry warbands.

when models go up on pre-order general they release the war scrolls. Also the influencers are also allowed to show off the product, so likely tomorrow we will get ALOT of info.

Cities of sigmar

I think the exorcist with a spell portal and comet combines with woth a battlemage on a vortex from azyr with roaming wild fire. Giving you 4 spells that do d3 mortal wounds in an area.

Thanks alot for the input i appreciate. I'll run them as freeguild guard. Though the corvus cabal one work out for that. Maybe i swap them for splintered fangs. Gotta tinker the idea some.

Was wondering if you folks think of this as an acceptible flagellent unit for my cities army. I'm looking to using a combination of cypher lords, corvus cabal, cultist if the abyss, arkanaut company, and maybe some flagellent models to make a squad of flagellents. All based on 25s For the cypher lords im thinking of doing a few head swaps with some shadow warrior, sisters of the watch, and darkshard heads. As a small group of elven militia. Corvus Cabal some skin green stuffing to clean them up. Not painted with blood on chest. The head in the ladies hand will either be carved out of she will get a different hand. Otherwise i won't use the model. Cultist of the abyss. Grenades removed, pistol holders removed, hand and arm swaps for flagellent weapons or free guild weapons. Not using the respirator model. Arknaught company would have all guns removed and take dwarf weapons from warriors and hammerers. The few flagellents if any will have none of thier normal weapons and would get shadow warrior and freeguild weapons. I really don't like how think the shafts are on thier weapons. A little lore on my city is its deepkin who made a glowing city in ulgu. They draw in all races and aligences to join them with their guiding light. Do the city is jam packed with mercenaries. This army is a mercenary army, and the flagellents are apprentices to the mercenary company who are coming from various walks of life.

The number one is gonna be long beards. They allow you to out of sequence dispel endless spells. Meaning you can cast a purple sun then dispell it that same turn. They are also good tanks. Irondrakes also hit really hard and with the bridge or boat tr ou can move they into range. Gyrocopters and bombers are just good.

Depending on how you've built your list you can double pump the command ability for more bonuses to cast. The real fear is the knight incantor, and that's more an issue of out deploying them. Double command ability is less realistic if your opponent goes first as your heros might take some punches, but in that case likely you don't need to hop on the balewind.

@Rune @Grimaldus Famed spell hunter does not give you bonuses to unbind unless you are a wizard. Otherwise it only gives you an extra unbind. Just putting that out there, you might already know this.

Lets not necro off topic conversations that have open and active thread on more closely related subjects else where. I don't value unbind super super highly, but it is a really nice bonus on the magic low armies. Your usualy more likely to have your opponent fail to cast thier own spell than for you to unbind it with out some serious bind power at your back.

Yep but only one model can grab spell hunter and so your missing out on a 2nd unbinder.

Framed spell hunter should go on another model. Give that other model retinue so that other model can be the + to cast nexus, as the hero that uses the command ability can't benefitfrom the bonuses, and the retinue can eat some of the damage. More over if the incanter isn't the spell hunter your general can unbind 2 spells a turn instead of just 1. Meaning you can also recast gemnids/purple sun/pendulum which gives you a lot more milage.

PG effectively have 2 wounds as they half all damage they take via thier save. WHile it subject to some randomness the randomness can help as much as it harms. So this between the two is a none issue. This is ture but it helps as much as it hurts because unless you are bringing a pheonix in your army simply because you want the pheonix and you want it with an annoited, and you want it to be your general than the PG battle line can be consider free. However, if the above things aren't the case it is a cost to make the PG battle line even at just an annointed that puts the max unit cost at 500+pts vs 20 sequitors at ~400pts. Which is rather signifigant, but it does lessen if you take more PG. Either way we do have some very mean general options out there and the PG have to compete with this as well. I still thing PG are alittle better in my book than sequitors, but only by alittle over all. The main advantage being more damage all the time (vs the sequitor modes), and more models for objecting purposes, and if you want a pheonix general or your general doesn't matter than PG also edge out the sequitors a little more. I think you can make arguement for both, but i think both will cost you some where.

damage is in the math. blackguard math batter so pt for pt your getting more out of the damage even against various armor values. So if you can fit the guard in they are better. Lastly the executioners NEED that discount to be worth the take i think, where as a smaller BG squad is a thing. That said i'd almost always take the full squad because of that 2" range. This is sort of true, again you come to that thing you said with executioners where it depends on what you can fit as both are betting on the discount for relevance. PG also get easy access to ignore battleshock and can always clap back as hard as they take where as sequitors in CoS can only either be tanky or defensive. Sequitors also do poorly in the slannesh match up and in any battleshock match up. Also they don't have the same model count as PG. So i think it all depends on your general, or if your taking a castelant if your going to take either, both are quite the investment. The pheonix being a ~300 pt investment or a 100pt annointed or losing 2 units of SCE.

It's because one of thier major counters is skaven, with high numbers and shooting/magic. To the natural counter is already well represented. Similarly, with new cities we might be slannesh having more issues. That said slannesh stop most multi wound and melee armies from the word go.

As long as you've done something to make it different, iconic, or recognizable than it's genereally fine. Went to that first LVO event run by GW (i believe???) when the ghb first dropped with my big zombie army and they had none issues. My zombies are various foot droops, eternal guard/ironwarriors/flaggelents/witchelves/etc all painted to be ghost. SO as long as you go through an effort to make them different and look like what they should be i don't think any one would care.

tzneetch doesn't summon a lot off completed spells. Most of tzneetch summoning is most quickly gained by killing your own stuff. Otherwise the tzneetch summoning is very much secondary. Flying units do very well against tzneetch along side a very powerful shooting list work well against tzneetch. Tzneetch is made of tissue paper and they tend to put endless spells and summoner units from sacrifices in front of thier lines. Which means they are particularly good against all ground melee armies.

As with everything GW i wish we got more advanced warning and firmer dates.

i can get behind that one for sure. Yeah the PG can be super durable, and are tough enough to take a charge and then punch back abit on a keeper of secret or other spooky units similar to how fireslayer units can. That said i still like stuff like the dark shards as they give me the option of being assertive and get damage in before my turn, but still can be enough to hold the line for at least a turn. The rule is pretty clearly worded that a runelord would not get bonuses to unbinding a endless spell. It's not so clear on if it would give them one more attempt, but i'd doubt that as well.

I think i agree, but disagree that you need the pg unit. Certainly 4 wizards is about all you need to really get good milage out of what hollowheart brings you. I just think PG are a weird way to combat overwhelming aggression, while not answering models who can attack first. Edit: i suppose i should say pg can work with its own pros and con, but I'd prefer to have smaller chaffe units to abosorb a dangerous threat.

I think getting the balance right on new armies is just a bit tough. As they don't have literally thousands of players testing the rules before they come out. I think for new armies GW should take an aggressive points adjust stance on each new book for about 6 months. Tweaking the points of models every 2 months till they preform near the levels of other armies. The need to keep physical books relavent and as a product really slows down balance. I think stepping into something more digital and being more aggressive with pts changes is an important factor to balance.

This isn't the thread for this. If you want you can go see if that double turn thread and general is still up and unlocked. Otherwise hollow heart.

i've played with skaven endless spells. they are quite good. though the nerf to vortex makes it harder to set up. skaven only needs a few endless spells for a wizard heavy list to work.

I feel i'd make not the knight incantor my general, so that the wizard dispelling spells can break down 2 of them. The scroll can't be used on the comet, it's only good for stopping enemy spells. I think the knight incantor is chill, but you can get more mortal wounds out of the lard arcanum with prime electrictrid which isn't something to sneeze at. Though he has anti synergy with azyr battle mage as he likes to follow up chain lighting and roaming wild fire with arcane bolt for an average of 6 mortal wounds. I think i prefer a none incantor general. I'd like 2 spell unbinds for my famed spell hunter, or atleast a none endless spell flinging general. One who can use both of thier spell slots to constantly unbind endless spells. Letting you react the gemninds, pendulum, comet, or what ever multiple endless spell to get more milage out of them. Also the incantor won't get bonuses to cast if used to activate the CA meaning you have to standard cast out the comet. What's got you.... Broken Hearted..... friend?? Feeling the options are abit... Hallow?? *cough* It's a tough build as you have to make sure your getting enough juices for the squeeze on the wizard bump. Gotta budget for lots of wizards and endless spells while still packing a good melee unit and maybe some ranged units to make it worth taking the heart. Wizards: Sorc general with agraxi prism (90pts, general+artifact). As your general she can block CA damage allowing her to be a decent activator with the retinue. She can give her self bonuses to cast by eating a darkling coven model. Meaning if she doesn't catch the CA she's still ready to open a spell portal to support one of your wizards like and incantor/exorcist/cyclone caster/etc. Lastly, the spell is no slacker. This model banks your a d3 mortal wound single target with a tacked on -1 to hit. Support: Great spell portal set up, CA user, -1 to hit, buffs run/charge with darkling coven models Damage: Single target D3 mortal wounds Azyr battlemage with balewind vortex (130pts). This one is your go to power house. Turn one throwing out those 24" range chain lightnings and roaming wild fires. The vortex can let you sneak alittle close as well being more like 28" depending on how you deploy. Turn 2+ your also adding in arcane bolt throwing out d3 mortal wounds often than to CA. Or you can giving him seer wounds so he can heal models from accross the table. Support: Long range healer for large models Damage: possible 3d3 mortal wounds to a single target ~28" range , area 2d3 mortal wounds on 4+. Incantor with comet (240 pts). You bring this one for the comet and the once per game unbind to take out key spells. She needs to catch the CA so i don't recommend her being your general. A good candidate for cyclone as her other spell won't be as usefull most of the time, and she's likely just to try to stay back and out of unbind range with your azyr battlemage. Meaning she can look in the mirror all game. support: once per game auto unbind damage: 36" d3 mortal wounds (if going 2nd potentialy 2d3 with 2nd activation), With mirror caddy has free lot of cyclone. Hurricanum is weird (220 no wizard, 280 with wizard). It has a nice d6 mortal wounds spell and 3d6 shooting attack. It just has to move up to get into striking distance It does have +1 to hit which can work wonders for many of your shooting options, but doesn't play well with shadow warriors. It's battle mage is also azyr, but no vortex here. If your going to bring the azyr battle mage you'll have to find another spell from the lore for this model to take. When taking the model know your taking it mostly for the shooting attack as others might be using the mirror. support: shooting +1 to hit, +1 to cast battlemage/luminark/itself Damage: 3d3 mortal wound shooting attack at full health, d3-d6 mortal wound spell (needs mirror for turn 1 use). Support battle mages. Hysh and Ghur at the best 2 support battlemages and its all about what you need. Ghur gives you speed which works well for darkshards/blackguard running and shooting, while hysh works great for keeping tanky units alive like pheonix guard, liberators, sequitors, and phoenixs or with the help of a sorc also giving -1 to hit to melee threat can keep squishy units safe (black guard/morrsarr guard). They like taking ignite weapons and warding brand (mainly for melee) to further aid thier charges. Or they can use an endless spell. With ignax scales they become good CA users. Hysh can work Support: +2 run/charge or -1 to be hit. Nice to also have +1 to wound or 4+ thorn effect. Damage: Thorns or endless spell of choice, quick silver swords are a great choice here working well against chaos (15 wounding on 6s is better than d3 mortal wounds) I think outside of wizards i like: Shadow warriors 10 as strong suprize damage that doesn't need protection, and can hit a lot of targets, or atleast forces your opponent to manuever is a very different way. I like them as 10s as we aren't going first most times away way so why make big squads. This aren't likely to get buffed when you want them most (the first time they hit the table), they want to be wholly within cover, and you want multiple squads to snatch objectives. They do decent damage and each squad is effectively a celestart balista with a lord ordinator near by. 20 can kill most small characetrs 40 can drop a keeper (assuming you can get them all in cover and in range). average dmg for 10: 4.07 vs 4+ save Darkshard 10-20 nice battle line that can turn on sorceresses giving you access to that the +2 to cast. They can spend CP to move quickly and work well with dark shards. average dmg for 10: 3.33 vs 4+ save Anointed on Flame Phoenixs can do free early mortal wounds with thier movement thingy. This give your a psuedo spell allowing you to work around units fighting first, but doing mortal before combat starts. The move mortals are tough to accomplish however as it's similar to reducing movement by 6. Its going to realistic be that you'll either do for the free move damage or go into melee. It's a tanky model that can sort of screen for your army, and you use mostly for the move mortal and possible combat damage. Can be swinging if revived. I don't rate the frost one because i think the main sell is the move over mortal wounds. The melee damage isn't there for these two and the frost one is more about melee -1 to wound and wants other melee untis around to support, but you can only afford to bring so many. That said frosty is tankier thanks to the aura. Average dmg possible 5 move mortal, 3.85 melee vs 4+ save Phoenix guard (30 models) these are also tanks and they can hit decently hard. I don't love these personally as they're mainly going to be hitting back. They are relatively slow compared to most meta hammer units that skate up the table quickly and charge. That said wildform can get them into battle from further than normal. These are higher damage versions of the flame/frost phoenix higher model counts. High max possible damage, but lack attack priority of the flame phoenix, and not as durable as the frost phoenix can be. These are take at 40 or not at all if you ask me. Also require a annoited general to be battle line. Gain easy immune to battleshock access. Average dmg for 30: 18.07 vs 4+ save Black Guard 30 models: these are fast and squishier phoenix guard. They'll be picking thier fights and hidden between your screen instead of being your screen. Meaning you'll want to invest in a screen to keep these safe. With possible 2cp help and wild form this can possible move 15" and charge with +3" making them super fast. WIth access to +1 to hit if they can manage to keep a sorc near by (tough without thermal rider cloak or the black dragon). While they might also like wild form to help them further. Benefits are picking your fights and move clear accross the table. Very battleshock vulnerable. average dmg for 30: 18.07 vs 4+ save Allied 6 Morrsarr guard: I point these out because i have and like them a lot. These combine the some of the flame pheonix and black guard into one unit. They start off moving 14" and with wild form can charge with +2 rerolling. They have a once per game lightning blast pre combat mortal wounds, allowing them to help against attacking first models similar to the pheonix, but they also have more melee bite. The lightning blast can also be used defensively to cut the damage from charging units. These are my favorite melee unit, but you can only bring one due to ally points. Average dmg for 6: 14.96 vs 4+ save, Once per game average dmg 5 mortal wounds Others: Pistoliers hit very hard and do it all before combat start. No run and charge sucks, but they'll beat out shadow warrior and dark shard numbers if they get all thier duck in a row for the charge. Thier movement make them rather ackward for turn 1 charging though, so they won't be in the fight till turn 2. They need a force that will help them with getting around alittle quicker. Sisters of the thorn: Good can use the endless spell boat to get into spell range turn 1. I jut haven't found spells worth having them do this. If you have some one else boat them they could throw a purple sun that will hit all of your opponents army easily, or give an important enemy a penedulum to the face. Along with some other point black spell. Wild riders. Actualy quite high damage but they have ackward range that make it tough for them to play like black guard or morrsarr guard who can be early threat, and no cheaty moves that let them fight sooner than they should. Again they do really good damage, it's more the execution like pistoliers. Crossbows/sisters of the watch. A great option but they want you to bring a boat or bridge to get them up the table with out "moving" them. They are the most math friendly shooting units and in max units with +1 to hit, maybe rerolls for transmute and other buffs they can be very spooky. They require investment, and they don't hit as hard as melee units. That all said they have a very large threat range and can put out damage outside of the combat phase avoid deepkin turn 2/3 stuff, flesh eater court attack first, slannesh attack first, and skaven death frenzies. Which has some real value. These should be up in the real consideration bracket, but i don't have my math on hand for them. I do know it's good though. These, bridge, hurricanum, and buff mages are a list ready to go and do great things just be sure to bring a screen and potentialy the battleshock protection artifact. Lord exorcist seems cool?? Spell portal hoting up and doing mortals. i just don't like the kind of high chance to fail to do any damage at all. In most cases it's like chain lightning but with out the inital hit, and against stormcast it's alot worse. That said he still load up the comet.