Implications of the 8th Edition of Warhammer 40,000

[Greyshadow]

Firstly, I have to begin with a comment on the new 40K box set: astonishing. Even though I am a dyed-in-the-wool fantasy player, I'd describe it one of the best collections of miniatures ever made.

I am interested to hear what others think this may mean for the future direction of Age of Sigmar. Some of my own thoughts:

1. Return of the big book. Given that GW now have a huge catalogue of AoS art and background they could certainly put something like this together for the next edition. If we had 280 pages, there would be room to give detail about factions we haven't heard much about as well as including General's Handbook content.

2. Objective markers. How cool would an AoS objective marker set be!

3. Return to classic mechanics. Yes, they have never left 40K but could some of the classic mechanics be back in favour? Would a return to Strength vs Toughness rolls and/or alternating turn sequence be good for the game? (I might lean yes for the former but no for the later).

Plenty of other implications in there.

[Oppenheimer]

What do I think? You're going to regret asking. Warning, I'm super salty lol

1) 40k is the spoiled child of GW and I hate them for it.

2) I find it laughable that they are supposed to be slimming down the rules and yet have released one giant rule book and many supliments already

3) I hate that they basically tested out their ideas on WFB like blowing up the world and not using points and we all had to struggle through it and now 40k gets the benefit of it with a smoother launch.

Not fair that their galaxy didn't get blown up and we still have to live with the old world being thrown out for no reason.

[Chikout]

The new 40k is cool enough I guess, but every week of 40k releases is another week I am not getting new shadow Aelves.

[Greyshadow]

Good point Chikout!

[Helgrund]

I dont think the successes of 40k mean anything for AoS. Its the other way round.

AoS is for trying out ideas. If they are well received then they are safely used in 40k.

The only thing I'm concerned about is AoS becoming another game of gunlines.

[Dibdab]

Man you must love a

3 hours ago, Oppenheimer said:

What do I think? You're going to regret asking. Warning, I'm super salty lol

1) 40k is the spoiled child of GW and I hate them for it.

2) I find it laughable that they are supposed to be slimming down the rules and yet have released one giant rule book and many supliments already

3) I hate that they basically tested out their ideas on WFB like blowing up the world and not using points and we all had to struggle through it and now 40k gets the benefit of it with a smoother launch.

Not fair that their galaxy didn't get blown up and we still have to live with the old world being thrown out for no reason.

Man you must  ask for extra salt on popcorn at the cinema and then complain it to salty.

[Killax]

4 hours ago, Oppenheimer said:

What do I think? You're going to regret asking. Warning, I'm super salty lol

1) 40k is the spoiled child of GW and I hate them for it.

2) I find it laughable that they are supposed to be slimming down the rules and yet have released one giant rule book and many supliments already

3) I hate that they basically tested out their ideas on WFB like blowing up the world and not using points and we all had to struggle through it and now 40k gets the benefit of it with a smoother launch.

Not fair that their galaxy didn't get blown up and we still have to live with the old world being thrown out for no reason.

It's not false, though there is a reflection to that aswell.

1) Without 40K it would be very possible that GW dropped WFB and never created AoS to follow up with. The market for the Fantasy wargaming simply said is smaller. As to why this is the case, I'm uncertain. I think it has something to do with model differentiation. Paining up a tank or mech in between your regular smaller forces is 'more fun' because it's 'more diverse'.

2) I agree, I think that new 40K will not be drastically different from old 40K. It will be a better core rule system but I do not think armies will function in different ways. Now GW made a point clear that this also wasn't their intent. But for me it means it's further away from AoS as some might expect. With this I mean that 40K to me seems to be set up in such a way that competative games are still top priority in 40K. This is less the case with AoS.

3) Fortunatly for us it will also go back and forth this way. To me the best thing that happend to WFB is actually that it's universe expanded. I agree with you that there seemed little reason to blow up the Old World but I do think that WFB was becomming very stale. There simply said wasnt enough creative space left to make things drastically different.
AoS' models are bigger, more dynamic and completely in line with their art. Due to how WFB was set up as a system you saw how base sizes restricted model design, size and how art of WFB was always amazing but 9/10 models looked nothing akin to their art. WFB presented itself as something it couldn't ever become, by large how the game system restricted it's creative designs.

Also in a way 40K did get it's lore blown up. Primarchs returning (Mortarion incomming). Space Marines now becomming true-scale space marines. Certain impossible weapon combinations of the past are becomming possible...
There are enough 40K fans out there who don't like all of it. They don't cause massive hysteria because they too know that 7th edition wasn't all that great either and by comparison 8th seems to be setting up to be much better as 7th.

[Karlbonner]

GW seem fairly committed to keeping and maintaining systems with varied entry level and complexity.

I think each system will learn from the mistakes of the other, but 40k will endure as the more complex and nuanced system, with AoS as the more streamlined and adaptable system. I think AoS provides a really valuable hobby entry for people who don't want or wouldn't read a 280 page rulebook. 4 pages, versus the 12 pages of streamlined rules for 40k is very substantial.

I think all we can be sure of from this release is that Nurgle releases are on the way, and that the next box set of AoS whenever it comes will continue to exceed the already remarkable standards that GW has when it comes to miniatures.

[RuneBrush]

4 hours ago, Oppenheimer said:

2) I find it laughable that they are supposed to be slimming down the rules and yet have released one giant rule book and many supliments already

Don't entirely agree with you on this.  The big book will contain the core rules (12 pages, available as a free download), the equivalent of the Generals Handbook (ours is 168 pages), some optional advanced rules and a decent section of background - probably 4-ish pages for each race.  Also, even if this were 280 pages of rules it would still be more streamlined than the current edition!

The five "Index" supplement books are equivalent to our Grand Alliance books - and we got four of them at release.

I can understand the frustration that makes some of us feel like AoS got the raw deal at launch, but I feel (and I don't think I'm on my own) that GW have made up for (and admitted) the mistakes made at AoS launch.  How much criticism would they get if they made all the same mistakes all over again?  and why would they not tap into the good bits from AoS - we've been telling them for almost two years that 40k would benefit from a ruleset similar to AoS.

[KnightFire]

5 hours ago, Greyshadow said:

Firstly, I have to begin with a comment on the new 40K box set: astonishing. Even though I am a dyed-in-the-wool fantasy player, I'd describe it one of the best collections of miniatures ever made.

I am interested to hear what others think this may mean for the future direction of Age of Sigmar. Some of my own thoughts:

1. Return of the big book. Given that GW now have a huge catalogue of AoS art and background they could certainly put something like this together for the next edition. If we had 280 pages, there would be room to give detail about factions we haven't heard much about as well as including General's Handbook content.

2. Objective markers. How cool would an AoS objective marker set be!

3. Return to classic mechanics. Yes, they have never left 40K but could some of the classic mechanics be back in favour? Would a return to Strength vs Toughness rolls and/or alternating turn sequence be good for the game? (I might lean yes for the former but no for the later).

Plenty of other implications in there.

To add my thoughts on this:

1 - AoS launched with a big book too, its mostly full of story, but has a load of scenarios etc, together with the core rules. I'm not sure that the 40k book is necessarily that different.

2- yes they are great, I would like to see some, although AoS has a great range of small scenery so you can create your own pretty easily.

3- Bleugh, I would just quit playing if we went back to that nonsense, AoS has an incredibly light rule set that makes it feel like you are using your army how you want to, rather than how the rules say you have to. When the new 40k rules were announced I was fairly interestsed, but the more that I see they have kept old hangups to the old editions the less interested I am in playing it. I think the streamlined nature of the AoS rule set is one of the biggest things going for it, and I don't think they will ever go back on that. In fact I think they would have done the same with 40k if they felt they could get away with it (maybe for 9th). 

[Percivael]

On the miniatures side I think the Nurgle figures are excellent but I'm not convinced by the Primaris Space Marines. They are too curvey for my liking, which gives them an inflated with air quality, particularly that hero one. For the biggest space marines yet, they ironically lack weight. But you know , that's just like my opinion man. 

[Greyshadow]

I think the Primaris look great. They are seemingly realistic and fantastic at the same time, and beautifully designed. The scale creep is a worry though, not sure how well they are going to mix with regular marines.

[cb_rex]

Implications... I think quite a few people will switch to playing 40k at least for a while, now they've made it straight forward to do so.  I pretty much rage quit 40k when 3rd edition dropped and movement values went away, so now they're back I'm all aboard again.  I'm not sure but it seems like the rules for the models aren't free only the core rules being so, which is a shame, (please correct me if this is not the case).

I was genuinely surprised and pleased when I saw the big book in the new boxed set, I think the lack of having the big book that released with AoS in the boxed set has really hampered the penetration of the AoS story to the detriment of the game.  Now the story for 40k is more generally understood but for new players getting in with a starter set it makes perfect sense to have the big book.

Having the big book in with the AoS starter set would have bumped up the price tag to the £90 mark and I'm not sure the quality and quantity of the minis would have carried that, (at the time).

40k is in a very appealing place right now, the rules seem detailed but refined to be slick to play with some really cool tactical game play options coming from the army building options and the command point stratagem mechanics.  I can't wait to play it.

Having said all of that the AoS miniatures will always shine through and be played with as they are truly fantastic fantasy models with a neat rule set.

[KnightFire]

15 minutes ago, cb_rex said:

Implications... I think quite a few people will switch to playing 40k at least for a while, now they've made it straight forward to do so.  I pretty much rage quit 40k when 3rd edition dropped and movement values went away, so now they're back I'm all aboard again.  I'm not sure but it seems like the rules for the models aren't free only the core rules being so, which is a shame, (please correct me if this is not the case).

 

From what I understand, the rules for the models are free, but the battalions (I know its an AoS term, but 40k players keep using 40k terms in AoS so I'm going to do the reverse) come in paid for supplements. The released "index" books are the equivalent of the grand alliance books that AoS got (but at release, rather than 6 months later), they will contain the battalions. 

The biggest implication for me personally is that it has reminded me that I bought a load of chaos marines a few years ago (when the helldrake etc came out) but didn't really paint many of them, and I got an airbrush recently. These two things combine nicely.

[Menkeroth]

Aye, all the changes are quite logical, we will see if they make it. But minis are really that great and I think it will be a new era for 40k as AoS was for fantasy.

[Tasman]

3 hours ago, KnightFire said:

using your army how you want to, rather than how the rules say you have to. When the new 40k rules were announced I was fairly interestsed, but the more that I see they have kept old hangups to the old editions the less interested I am in playing it. I think the streamlined nature of the AoS rule set is one of the biggest things going for it, and I don't think they will ever go back on that. In fact I think they would have done the same with 40k if they felt they could get away with it (maybe for 9th). 

Can only hope. SvT is not needed in AoS. The games fast pace would truly suffer for it.

[Zeratan]

I would say that general experiance of testers and designers is going to be the most important asset gained by AoS from 8th ed. 40k.

[chord]

AOS should stay as simple as possible. 

[kozokus]

I Love that.

I loathed on the 8th edition of WHFB with his stupid movement phases and overcomplicated rules. I played it a couple of times loosing entire afternoons on 2000 point games. Now i have AoS and i spend waaay too much time théorycrafting and make 2 games a weak easily.

I spite on the 7th of 40k with the stupidity of the (hidden)unbound lists, the bloat of rules, books, additions and badly-thought interactions. I played three games in 2016 and hated all of them. I cant wait for the new one.

[wayniac]

I like what I've seen from 40k thus far, but some annoyances:

1) The models (Death Guard especially) look TOO busy.  There's too much detail on them that it's just blinged-out and a little obnoxious.

2) They said "the rules will be free" and then backtracked to say "The CORE rules will be free" so only the most basic of rules, with everything else needing the book

3) They are NOT having the unit scrolls available on the website for download like they did with AOS, meaning you will no longer be able to print out PDFs of the units you need like most AOS players do.

[KnightFire]

31 minutes ago, wayniac said:

I like what I've seen from 40k thus far, but some annoyances:

1) The models (Death Guard especially) look TOO busy.  There's too much detail on them that it's just blinged-out and a little obnoxious.

2) They said "the rules will be free" and then backtracked to say "The CORE rules will be free" so only the most basic of rules, with everything else needing the book

3) They are NOT having the unit scrolls available on the website for download like they did with AOS, meaning you will no longer be able to print out PDFs of the units you need like most AOS players do.

For point 2 - this is the same as AoS

What is your source for point 3? It contradicts what they have said in the WHTV interviews so far.

[wayniac]

5 minutes ago, KnightFire said:

For point 2 - this is the same as AoS

What is your source for point 3? It contradicts what they have said in the WHTV interviews so far.

Pete Foley's twitter.

[KnightFire]

Ah ok, so they will still be available for free when you buy the miniatures, which is fine by me, so you don't need to print the PDF (and can scan and reprint it if you really want to)

[Furious]

6 hours ago, Killax said:

The market for the Fantasy wargaming simply said is smaller. As to why this is the case, I'm uncertain. I think it has something to do with model differentiation. Paining up a tank or mech in between your regular smaller forces is 'more fun' because it's 'more diverse'.
 

I'd like to point out the idea that 40k, with its dozens of factions of Space Marines, being somehow more diverse than any Fantasy game is very amusing to me. You literally use the same models for multiple armies.

[Mikester1487]

I think it's great that gw is releasing all of the rules up front this time.  Hopefully thats a sign of a lesson learned for future releases on both game systems.

For all you elf players maybe they will do an eldar/aos elf release in the very near future?  My thinking is that much like the compendiums they want to give races a new tome instead of being under 'xenos' or 'chaos.'