Let's chat Disciples of Tzeentch

[Shadowheart]

Pink horror issues aside, i'm quite liking the looks of all this. Its looking like you could do a tzeentch army that doesn't wholy rely on magic to get things done, which is pretty much exactly what i'd been hoping for out of this release

[Honcho]

I am ridiculously excited about this release. It's going to be my first big 2017 project, but I'm already torn.

I just can't decide on how to build tzaangors. Do I go with the 6+ Feel No Pain shield or a slightly better hit bonus? I'm leaning towards the double weapons as I don't think that FNP roll is going to trigger that often....unless there are spells or abilities to make the shields better. 

I'm just all over the place on this.  How are you building your tzaangors and acolytes?

[Changer]

In theory, what's the best setup going to be for 10 and 20 man units of Tzaangor?  Maxing out on Greatblades seems to be a must, but what about the rest of the unit?

[Goodwin]

Well, I tried to avoid buying or wanting any other Chaos factions, but the Changer is sucking me in.

I'm thinking of not worrying about the Arcanite Shields on the Tzaangors and instead hoping for Boon of Mutation to replenish guys. 

I have a lot of catching up in regards to this as I had basically ignored the release until I realized my sweet sweet Gor were playing a larger part.  What kind of Wargor would I be if I didn't embrace this stuff!?

[Arkiham]

1 hour ago, Changer said:

In theory, what's the best setup going to be for 10 and 20 man units of Tzaangor?  Maxing out on Greatblades seems to be a must, but what about the rest of the unit?

1 large unit an 2 smaller ones maybe ? 

If you're really concerned on maxing out on great blades damage I'd go dual hand weapons.

If you take smaller unit and want dmg dual hand weapons

but for a large unit (20 models) you want 1hw and shield as they gain attacks for every 9 models as its capped at 3.

I've not done the math but I suspect after 10 models it doesn't becomes worth it.

[kozokus]

Thoses Tzangors seems ridiculously powerful for what they costs. Mathammer tells me horrible things about them and they all owverpower khornate units in every way.

Did i miss something?

[Arkiham]

Even blood warriors? The synergy likely plays a huge factor.

Battleshock immune blood warriors doing 3 attacks each,  with unit champion doing 4 with the goreglaive, when they attack and when they die.

Compared to low bravery low armour tzaangors who have good damage output but collapse when attacked back. 

Seems fair enough to me.

[Gorthor21]

I made mine with arcanite shields because I thought it looked cooler but after reading the rules I wish I did the two hand weapons option.  

With the maxed out unit with paired weapons and a wizard nesrby they have 5 atracks hitting and wounding on a 3+.  They drown the target in attacks.  

I really wish the Tzaangors enlighten were better.  If I get the kit I would definitely make sky fires instead.

[Arkiham]

10 minutes ago, Gorthor21 said:

I made mine with arcanite shields because I thought it looked cooler but after reading the rules I wish I did the two hand weapons option.  

With the maxed out unit with paired weapons and a wizard nesrby they have 5 atracks hitting and wounding on a 3+.  They drown the target in attacks.  

I really wish the Tzaangors enlighten were better.  If I get the kit I would definitely make sky fires instead.

ah, i misread that. i read it was max 3 attacks per model. not max +3 attacks. that makes so much more sense now. 

[CJPT]

via Bell of Lost Souls

This is likely the closest we'll get to a points-efficient splitting solution, even though it's not technically splitting and you have to take all of your horrors up front. 8 units sounds like a lot, but if you go with the minimum unit sizes then it's less than you'd need to fully split two units of pink horrors. i.e:

- Herald

- Pink Horrors x10

- Pink Horrors x10

- Blue Horrors x10

- Blue Horrors x10

- Brimstone Horrors x10

- Brimstone Horrors x10

- Brimstone Horrors x10

- Brimstone Horrors x10

If you were planning to split the pink horrors anyway, this would give you 20 Blue Horrors left over for first-turn unit expansion.

All of this assumes that this batallion has a matched play points value, of course.

[FunkyPunk]

Just building up a unit of 30 tzaangors at the moment which I think will be fun (although needlessly complex) to play with.

I'm thinking that sword 'n board will be my go to - with a unit of 30 it's going to be hard to pile in much more than the greatswords & the mutants, and the extra damage from the rest is pretty negligible anyway. Might as well try to make the a tiny bit more survivable right? Looking at the rest of some potential list ideas, the rest looks a bit flimsy so something vaguely tough could be useful.

[Rogue Explorator]

Since Tzaangor can mix and match their equipment and the mutants are always dual wielders, I'll go for maximum greatblades and mutants and equip any remaining Tzaangor with shields, taking damage on shieldbearers first and battleshock casualties depending on the units they face.

I am aiming at building a full unit of thirty first, the bonus from high numbers is to insane not to.

I certainly would not expect Boon of Mutation to do much in replenishing Tzaangor units. You get threeTzaangor at most per turn in matched play and that only if you target a one wound unit close enough to the Tzaangor (that those Tzaangor may very well eradicate on their own), make the casting roll and your enemy has nothing to prevent mortal wounds. It is a cute little boon, but it guarantees no extra staying power for the unit.

[Goodwin]

I think I like @FunkyPunk idea much better then my own.  Preserve all the nasty hard-hitting things, and let the shield bearers soak up the wounds, since it'll be unlikely you'll get everyone in combat anyway.  Dig it!

Gotta find a way to get a unit and a Tzaangor Shaman into my Brayherd list.  Or just buy an entire DoT army.  Whichever.

[Nico]

I'm seeing Tzaangor as being a solid two wound above average chaff unit - not a big hitting unit (although they will do pretty well against poorly armoured opponents), unless they have some combat synergies in the Battalions or Lore Spells. On that basis the Shield is the way to go. Don't forget that you can take Chosen or Chaos Warriors of Tzeentch as well, which provide other choppy/tough options. Relying on a 5+ save unit as your hammer is risky, even with 2 wounds each (except when the units are very cheap and have great synergies like Savage Orruks). Few things more more fun than taking first turn against a Bloodletter bomb, killing 14 of them with 2 Plagueclaw Catapults (obviously requires luck on the hit and wound rolls) and watching another 6 flee, even with Bravery 10. 

The Skyfires are in the app, together with a points cost in the Profile. Seem to be 160, but this might be a placeholder.

[FunkyPunk]

32 minutes ago, Nico said:

I'm seeing Tzaangor as being a solid two wound above average chaff unit - not a big hitting unit (although they will do pretty well against poorly armoured opponents), unless they have some combat synergies in the Battalions or Lore Spells. On that basis the Shield is the way to go. Don't forget that you can take Chosen or Chaos Warriors of Tzeentch as well, which provide other choppy/tough options. Relying on a 5+ save unit as your hammer is risky, even with 2 wounds each (except when the units are very cheap and have great synergies like Savage Orruks). Few things more more fun than taking first turn against a Bloodletter bomb, killing 14 of them with 2 Plagueclaw Catapults (obviously requires luck on the hit and wound rolls) and watching another 6 flee, even with Bravery 10. 

The Skyfires are in the app, together with a points cost in the Profile. Seem to be 160, but this might be a placeholder.

Yeah - and with the bravery 5 getting turn one bombed would be absolutely horrific. I might give it a go and then change to smaller chaff units as you suggest if it's not working well.

Did any of the daemon units (except LoC) get points changed? I'd love to use screamers and flamers but they're a bit inefficient at the moment.

[Nico]

Hopefully we can deal with one issue quickly. The Tzaangor Icon Bearer rule allows for a certain amount of Mortal Wound spam on the basis of the number of Wizards within 9". My view is that the purposive interpretation of this rule is that a unit of 1 Lord of Change = one wizard; and one unit of 10 Pink Horrors = one wizard - not 10 wizards (not least because the alternative view that it equals 10 Wizards would be an absurd interpretation). We don't need another Brotherhood of the Great Bolts with a single unit of 10 Tzaangor next to 30 Pink Horrors spitting out 15 mortal wounds (as opposed to 0.5 mortal wounds).

[CJPT]

12 minutes ago, Nico said:

Hopefully we can deal with one issue quickly.

Agreed. A unit of Tzaangor between two units of Pink Horrors and accompanied by a Thaumaturge and Shaman? That's a legitimate way to get 2 bonus Mortal Wounds a turn. Firing the Horror Cannon? No.

[Changer]

I've just put this up as a question on the AoS Facebook page.  Not sure if it'll get a response or not.  What do you guys think?

Just got a quick question in regards to the Acolytes and the Tzaangors. The Acolyte warscroll on the website shows that acolytes can have a cursed blade and arcanite shield. Thee in ten can a doubled handed glaive. However, you've got models showed equiped with a glaive and a shield. Is this 'legal'?

The Tzaangor equipment reads similarly. If Acolytes can have shields and double handed glaives, does this mean that Tzaangor can have shields and double handed greatblades?

[Alexxk]

2 hours ago, CJPT said:

Agreed. A unit of Tzaangor between two units of Pink Horrors and accompanied by a Thaumaturge and Shaman? That's a legitimate way to get 2 bonus Mortal Wounds a turn. Firing the Horror Cannon? No.

Make it 2 units of Tzaangors for double the fun!

[CJPT]

9 minutes ago, Alexxk said:

Make it 2 units of Tzaangors for double the fun!

That's an interesting tradeoff. I'm planning to get two boxes of Tzaangors, but not sure whether to run one unit of 20 (to get the bonus attack per model) or two units of 10 (to use the icon ability twice.) I reckon the former is more reliable, but it's cool that there's a genuine decision to be made there.

[FunkyPunk]

13 minutes ago, CJPT said:

That's an interesting tradeoff. I'm planning to get two boxes of Tzaangors, but not sure whether to run one unit of 20 (to get the bonus attack per model) or two units of 10 (to use the icon ability twice.) I reckon the former is more reliable, but it's cool that there's a genuine decision to be made there.

The scroll reads that you can have any number of icons (you still only lob one shot though), so you could potentially have 2 icons in your 20 man unit so that you've got the flexibility to try both sizes.

[daedalus81]

This will be my first goblin level leadership army.  Hopefully battalions ameliorate some of the issue.

[Malakithe]

Does the Gaunt no longer get a flying option?

[Shadowheart]

1st block of tzaangor built, gone for 20, maxing out on great weapons and mutants, the rest have shields. I have another box to build yet, undecided if i want to up the unit to 30, or do a 2nd unit of 10.

 

[Aeonotakist]

Tzaangors  are still way better than most other battle line. First they are 9 points for 1 wound which is not expensive. While 5+ plus 6+ ward is not really bad. Second their weapon damage is fair especially at large number. But most important thing is they got a very useful range damage. imagine you have 4 wizard standing next to 3 units of Tzaangors. All the banner will do average 2 MW to enemy. They can kill a Lord Celestial if he is within 18', which is ridiculous for  a melee focused battle line troop.

 

Also there is one thing in Tz army that is crazy. They have 4 different spells that can damage enemy while setup something within 3' of them. This tactic will really bring a lot of trouble to melee focused army. Imagine Flesh Eating Court big zombie block or a Stonehorn got shot by fire and find a 50 points Blue horror is in his 1'. Next turn he can only waste time on this puny thing and got shot by enemy again.