Can you rate 'start collecting boxes' ?

[RuneBrush]

The issue with rating the starter boxes is more that they're great for starting or expanding an army, but not that great if that's all you're going to purchase.  The boxes contain between 450 and 600 points worth of models at the present time* so nowhere near a tournament ready army, in fact they'll form a pretty small part of a 2000 point army.

I think what people are trying to say is you need to pick a flavour that you fancy playing or favours your playing style. Unlike WFB, there isn't one Grand Alliance that isn't capable of winning games, if you look at the winners of recent tournaments you'll see a real mixture of army composition, proving that it comes down more to being a good general than your actual army.  Additionally most of the starter sets should be able to compete if you use Open Play scenarios, which have specific objectives or scenarios.

Once you've decided which of the four Grand Alliances you fancy playing, then your best bet is to head over to one of the forum areas on here and have a read through of what's currently popular to give you an idea of units and combinations that perform well and others that people struggle with or don't get on with.

To determine points for an army, you either need to pick up the Generals Handbook, or use a tool such as Scrollbuiler.com to work it out.  This will give you an idea on what you're going to need to aim for model wise.  The get started sets are really good value so even if you only use two of the units, it's cheaper than purchasing them on their own.

Sorry if this sounds a bit defeatist, it's great that you're coming over to AoS from a gaming perspective but unlike WFB there genuinely isn't a winning formula or "best" army in the game.

 

* Points are not set in stone and may change in the future

[Aeonotakist]

I think a fair way to comment a starting box is 'if you want to play this army, how useful/needed are those models in the SCB.' If they re dramatically needed that you want to buy more then one box, then it is definitely a good box.

 

So far I woulds see most of the box are designed fairly well. Maybe FEC the best.

For the SE box, the librators inside can be eaisly converted to Protectors if you buy a boxed Paladin. So with one more Paladin box you have both Decimators and Protectors for Skyborn that's the reason makes me think it is not really too bad.

 

 

 

 

[MikeGreen]

2 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

Sorry if this sounds a bit defeatist, it's great that you're coming over to AoS from a gaming perspective but unlike WFB there genuinely isn't a winning formula or "best" army in the game.

 

Apologize appreciated Maybe not defeatist but a bit disappointing.

Many reviews nowadays are sponsored this way or another. The only review of AoS boxes on the net seems to be too much enthusiastic for me. Writing at every entry :  fantastic value,  bargain, great set is kind of a red flag for me. Significantly bigger battalions (even 50models) were sold 5 years ago for roughly the same price as start collecting boxes today (20models tops) . Not all of them were worth buying then... but maybe the community was healthier. That is why I ask people on forums, because I believe they are honest and capable of not only praising but criticizing openly.

So what that I "save 20$" by buying this set in one box than separately. I can save 55$ by not buying it at all And I'm affraid it will end like this.

[RuneBrush]

35 minutes ago, MikeGreen said:

So what that I "save 20$" by buying this set in one box than separately. I can save 55$ by not buying it at all And I'm affraid it will end like this.

I think some of that is still shock from however many years GW haven't had any discounted bundles available  

So going a little back to your original question - do you have a favoured playstyle?  I seem to either play pretty aggressively, trying to charge across the table and engage my opponent as quickly as I can or play a defensive long game.  Do you enjoy playing the long ranged game, trying to join up particularly devastating combos or something else?

[Chris Tomlin]

20 hours ago, MikeGreen said:

From best to worst, or with school grades or whatever you like 

I am interested in how powerful they are.

Yo Mike, which models do you like best?

[BrAiKo]

41 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

Yo Mike, which models do you like best?

Havent you heard? He doesn't care one bit whether he actually LIKES the army or not.

[Gaz Taylor]

I'll just echo what @Chris Tomlin has said - what models do you like.  The start collecting sets are aimed at giving you a starting point with some models you like. You tweak and change it depending on how you want to play but this is after you have got a set  

[arnoldrew]

7 hours ago, Aeonotakist said:

I think a fair way to comment a starting box is 'if you want to play this army, how useful/needed are those models in the SCB.' If they re dramatically needed that you want to buy more then one box, then it is definitely a good box.

 

So far I woulds see most of the box are designed fairly well. Maybe FEC the best.

For the SE box, the librators inside can be eaisly converted to Protectors if you buy a boxed Paladin. So with one more Paladin box you have both Decimators and Protectors for Skyborn that's the reason makes me think it is not really too bad.

 

 

 

 

The Stormcast box is great if you want the models it comes with, period. The Start Collecting is $85. Liberators are $50, Prosecutors are $60, Lord-Celestant is $35, and two Retributors is $10 or 15, I can't remember. Liberators are good to have and fun to paint, more Hammer Retributors are always useful (since you want to max Starsoul Maces if they are lone-gunning it, but if they get a bonus to hit from a Hurricanum or Lord-Celestant then you want all Hammers), I think Prosecutors with Javelins are useful. You probably only really need one Lord-Celestant. Basically, if you want Prosecutors getting the Start Collecting is a no-brainer (and really the only way to buy Prosecutors, in my opinion).

[Wraith01]

The Start collecting boxes are all good sets. 

 

 

[MikeGreen]

7 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

I think some of that is still shock from however many years GW haven't had any discounted bundles available  

 

Dark Vengeance, Deathwatch Overkill, Betrayal at Calth were all at least OK products. Not only in terms of value for money.

 

I've had too many armies in my life to get attached only because sth looks cool. Eg. I really don't like stormcast eternals because I connect this faction with revamp of WH universe (which was overall a huge failure for me). It didn't stop me from finishing WHQ Silver Tower playing stormcast eternal character - because it was the easiest way for us to win.

 

So you are dead set not to make this thread useful for new players with competitive background. But one last try just for my information :

which start collecting boxes have the most/least points ?

 

 

[rokapoke]

16 minutes ago, MikeGreen said:

which start collecting boxes have the most/least points ?

 

 

Use Scrollbuilder.com to point them. Otherwise, I'm sure Googling can be of service to you here, since civility hasn't availed you much.

[BaldoBeardo]

But one last try just for my information :
which start collecting boxes have the most/least points ?
 
 

There y'go...

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[BrAiKo]

Nurgle Daemons are 500 points

Skaven Pestilens  470 

Bloodbound  460 (remember these weaklings, above they were said to be the worst.  Look the points PROVE it...)

 

http://scrollbuilder.com/

You can do the rest with the link...

 

Not sure how this is relevant to you though, this is calculating the best points / dollar which is a metric you said didn't matter.  If you want to know which faction would give you the best chance of winning then you should be looking at tournament results, not points values in Start Collecting boxes.  Let me get you started

Warlords Tournament

First place: Bonesplitterz - no start collecting

Second place: Death alliance - definitely had the Mortis from the Malignants start collecting  <---- so there is your best SC box.  Beware though, this contains nice miniatures and god forbid you wouldn't want to run the risk of becoming attached to them.

Third place:  Bloodbound + WL cannons.  Miniatures from Bloodbound SC and Pestilens SC (but this must have been a lucky result, since you have been told that both these boxes are poor, they couldn't possible do well competitively).

 

[BaldoBeardo]

Seriously, with the possible exception of the malignant one, all the start collecting boxes contain units you will use.
In some cases, repeat purchasing of the boxes is sensible both from a game play / cost perspective.

Picking an army based on bang for buck or most overpowered will result in misery. You will have to paint them and expand on them. If you don't but into the imagery, that's a recipe for disaster.

Pick a faction that inspire you, and if they have an SC box, buy at least one.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[hobgoblinclub]

1 hour ago, BaldoBeardo said:

Seriously, with the possible exception of the malignant one, all the start collecting boxes contain units you will use.
In some cases, repeat purchasing of the boxes is sensible both from a game play / cost perspective.

Picking an army based on bang for buck or most overpowered will result in misery. You will have to paint them and expand on them. If you don't but into the imagery, that's a recipe for disaster.

Pick a faction that inspire you, and if they have an SC box, buy at least one.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
 

Sound advice. It's nice to see this thread getting back on track. Negativity serves nobody.

The Start Collecting boxes are great deals. 'Get the one you think is coolest' is the path of the wise hobbyist. 

[MikeGreen]

13 hours ago, BrAiKo said:

 

Skaven Pestilens  470

Third place:  Bloodbound + WL cannons.  Miniatures from Bloodbound SC and Pestilens SC (but this must have been a lucky result,(...)

 

Pretty funny I must admit

 

But pestilens box do not suck  as it initially seems... There are leftovers and you can have an additional grey seer out of it. And he is 120 points ! In a box vs box battle (as we plan to do it) it should be decisive.

 

Concerning warscroll : I can not find  Blood Throne in it.

How do you calculate points  for chariot or mount ?  (eg. ork warboss on a boar)

 

Flesh eater courts and Skeleton Horde have solid HQ (>400points). But the question is - are there instructions how to assemble eg. Manfred (460) when they put some meagre 340point guy on the box ?

>600 out of a box is solid, I'm impressed (of course if the units included are not overpriced). Like some of  WFB batalions in good ol' days !

 

 

 

 

[Spiky Norman]

3 hours ago, MikeGreen said:

Flesh eater courts and Skeleton Horde have solid HQ (>400points). But the question is - are there instructions how to assemble eg. Manfred (460) when they put some meagre 340point guy on the box ?

>600 out of a box is solid, I'm impressed (of course if the units included are not overpriced). Like some of  WFB batalions in good ol' days !

All the Start Collecting boxes include the full kits (& instructions) for the models - Which in case of the Skeleton Horde box, that you can build either Mannfred, Neferate or Arkhan, and choose between the Black Knights or Hexwraiths.

[RuneBrush]

On 15/10/2016 at 11:10 AM, MikeGreen said:

Concerning warscroll : I can not find  Blood Throne in it.

How do you calculate points  for chariot or mount ?  (eg. ork warboss on a boar)

Where were you looking for the Blood Throne warscroll?  It's in GA: Chaos, in the app and available to download on the GW website.

Chariots, mounts and wargear are all included in the points cost for the base warscroll.  So a unit of 3 Mighty Skullcrushers is 160 points, Juggernauts, horn blower and banner are included in that points level.  If a warscroll has an option (xxx may be mounted) then the cost with and without is the same.

As you're looking at playing only with the contents of the boxes, not all boxes are going to be equal at all - for example some have a Behemoth in which at under 700 points is likely to out perform it's points value.  Are you planning on playing battleplan scenarios or a simple carry on until no models are left?

[Age of The Erstwood]

On 14 October 2016 at 10:19 AM, Double Misfire said:

Fine @MikeGreen, you win. My 20 year Warhammer verterancy has informed me that the best Start Collecting set is:

  Hide contents

£11.50 cheaper than the other boxes and it contains all the models you need to enjoy winning games of Age of Sigmar. You can even use the leftover money to buy more warpfire throwers on a bits site!

If the Stormfiends box doesn't meet your requirements, not being an 'official' Start Collecting box, then Khorne Daemons, Nurge Deamons, Bloodbound, Slaves to Darkness and Pestilens are the only Start Collecting boxes worth buying, being the only boxes with models that can be used alongside Stormfiends in matched play (with Slaves to Darkness being the probable winner as the Sorcerer could probably be converted to represent Sayl the Faithless with a little effort).

 

There wasn't a single Stormfiend at the tournament I played in a couple of weeks ago. Maybe you should stop reading so much forum and go play a game or two, in my—granted quite limited—experience the hobby is not nearly as cynical as you let yourself believe.

To keep on topic; I think the best value boxes are the ones for smaller armies in which you'll definitely be fielding those units, for balance reasons or lack of options or what have you. With Flesh Eaters it would be hard to build a competive list that didn't include those models, same goes for Sylvaneth, pretty much every army is going to include a Treelord, some Dryads and a Wych, probably something similar for Iornjawz and maybe even the Daemon boxes too. Where as with say Stormcast you might choose three Judicator units as battleline, a celestant on dractorh and prosecutors with javelins and so without conversions that box would have little to no value. With Slaves to Darkness you might decide knights as battleline is more competitive or chose not to use the chariot. And so on and so forth. 

The best value boxes, both on and off the field, are the ones in which you're actually going to use the models. It doesn't matter if you make a huge saving on a Carnosaur if you're running an all Skink army or likewise if Arkhan the black has a really powerful spell but you're not using him.

 

 

 

[Double Misfire]

34 minutes ago, Age of The Erstwood said:

There wasn't a single Stormfiend at the tournament I played in a couple of weeks ago. Maybe you should stop reading so much forum and go play a game or two, in my—granted quite limited—experience the hobby is not nearly as cynical as you let yourself believe.

I'm sorry if that post came off too serious, when I made it I'd decided that this was a silly thread (the 'value' of the Start Collecting boxes is entirely subjective as determined by the player) and decided to give silly replies.

 

EDIT: Blimey, just saw the mod edit on my tier post! I'd like to apologise to anyone who took it seriously and got offended!  

[Chikout]

The best start collecting box is possibly the one thats not actually a start collecting box. The beastclaw raiders icewind assault box gives a very solid core to a powerful army at reasonable price especially if you can take of the 20% discount that some retailers offer. If you are looking for monetary value mixed with gameplay power that or the flesheaters is probably your best bet.

[Age of The Erstwood]

50 minutes ago, Double Misfire said:

I'm sorry if that post came off too serious, when I made it I'd decided that this was a silly thread (the 'value' of the Start Collecting boxes is entirely subjective as determined by the player) and decided to give silly replies.

 

EDIT: Blimey, just saw the mod edit on my tier post! I'd like to apologise to anyone who took it seriously and got offended!  

Concerning the apology, it's not necessary, it was obviously a joke. Just felt I should point out the lack of Stormfiends for those, like myself, who're reading the forums but not attending tournaments yet because they wrongly imagine everyone is using Clan Skrye or Kunning Rukk. Interestingly there were also no Kunning Rukks at the tournament I attended either. Neither army has a start collecting box either, so hopefully test won't become the case any time soon.

Anyway, back on topic; it's not necessarily a silly thread, in fact I think there could probably be a lot of value for new players, or indeed old players starting new armies, in knowing a little bit more about each box in terms of how it plays, how many points it contains, how much of that is viable—specifically if they are interested in playing competitively—or even, for those on a budget, a discussion about the most cost effective army, where to start and where to go from there. In fact I remember reading a post that I think was linked off War of Sigmar about exactly that—the cheapest way to field 1000 points, which I found very useful. If anything than perhaps it's the original poster's motivation, that seems to be to find the most most OP starter box, that takes away from the spirit of a thread like this, which is or at least should be additional information that GW don't provide as curated by and for the community as a whole

[Gaz Taylor]

I think this is what you are after for the costs of making 1000 point lists 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wl3zJzmXcXrievqvnoqtlOMHwG3-SCtRXMWfKFQ2ZVw/edit#gid=0

NOTE - The "effectiveness" of some of these lists is debatable. This is all to get you running a 1000 point army

[Wolden Spoons]

I like my Bloodbound box, lots of value in there. I can't buy anymore though as I already have four slaughter priests. 

If I had to pick one to play against all the others I think I would go for the Flesh Eater Courts cause Dragon.

[Dez]

1 hour ago, Gaz Taylor said:

I think this is what you are after for the costs of making 1000 point lists 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wl3zJzmXcXrievqvnoqtlOMHwG3-SCtRXMWfKFQ2ZVw/edit#gid=0

NOTE - The "effectiveness" of some of these lists is debatable. This is all to get you running a 1000 point army

Some of the suggestions too  For instance, the FEC line says to buy a Start Collection box as well as a box of Crypt Ghouls and Horrors...wouldn't you be better off buying another Start Collection box for the free Terrorgheist? Just saying. Good bones to build on I suppose.