Poll: SCE in every starterbox set?

[Chikout]

I think Stormcast make a good starter faction. They are a relatively low body count army that is easy to paint and should also be fairly easy to play. 

Here's what I'd like to see though. 

My perfect world is a new edition every 4 years with Stormcast in the box but a mid edition battle box with all new minis for two factions that aren't Stormcast. That way you get 4 factions with the big box treatment and Stormcast get updated every 4 years instead of the current 3. 

[Gitzdee]

4 hours ago, Chikout said:

I think Stormcast make a good starter faction. They are a relatively low body count army that is easy to paint and should also be fairly easy to play. 

Here's what I'd like to see though. 

My perfect world is a new edition every 4 years with Stormcast in the box but a mid edition battle box with all new minis for two factions that aren't Stormcast. That way you get 4 factions with the big box treatment and Stormcast get updated every 4 years instead of the current 3. 

I would love a 4 year cycle. Building a new army takes me so much time that when im finished the edition is almost over and my army list invalidated XD. This is also why im happy we are getting indexes this time.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

5 hours ago, Chikout said:

I think Stormcast make a good starter faction. They are a relatively low body count army that is easy to paint and should also be fairly easy to play. 

Here's what I'd like to see though. 

My perfect world is a new edition every 4 years with Stormcast in the box but a mid edition battle box with all new minis for two factions that aren't Stormcast. That way you get 4 factions with the big box treatment and Stormcast get updated every 4 years instead of the current 3. 

Would certainly have been nice to have a big Cities vs FEC box in the middle of the edition to go with the developing narrative (even though these factions only manifested near the end of the edition).

Or, to be honest, it would have been nice to have that Beasts of Chaos/Incarnate narrative actually go somewhere. Could have been Morghurites vs. Lumineth or whatever.

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

17 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

And not to mention mixed daemons of chaos!

(I’m not joking we genuinely have 5 new people (quite young even) who started aos with daemons of slaanesh and khorne mixed together

Oh, no. No, no, no. No. No. 

[Morglum StormBasha]

Generally starter boxes have always been a elite vs a horde

i think that’s generally a good idea

i think you do probably need a good human faction in the box which is either stormcast or cities.

you could however easily pair the horde of cities against say ironjawz or slaves to darkness etc as elite armies 

[Skreech Verminking]

22 minutes ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said:

Oh, no. No, no, no. No. No. 

I mean its not my taste, but apparently some people really like the mix of all daemons

[Sarouan]

"Daemon purists" always forget that at the beginning of times, chaos daemons were mixed. Because such is the nature of chaos, it follows no logic nor reason. These young people get it.

3 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Would certainly have been nice to have a big Cities vs FEC box in the middle of the edition to go with the developing narrative (even though these factions only manifested near the end of the edition).

Not especially. In second, we had multiple double army boxes with a narrative behind that usually followed a double battletome release (or at least close by). I believe it's more a question of production issues that kept GW from releasing that in 3rd as often.

I'm not sure that production problem will be resolved in 4th. But double boxes did happen in the past, I see no reason they can't happen again in the future. It was definitely not a question of not selling enough, they tended to be sold out quite fast every time they were on pre-order.

[Gaz Taylor]

18 hours ago, Howdyhedberg said:

But cities of sigmar have "sigmar" in the name ;)!

LOL very true  

But which force has a big statue outside GW HQ  

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, Sarouan said:

"Daemon purists" always forget that at the beginning of times, chaos daemons were mixed. Because such is the nature of chaos, it follows no logic nor reason. These young people get it.

Not especially. In second, we had multiple double army boxes with a narrative behind that usually followed a double battletome release (or at least close by). I believe it's more a question of production issues that kept GW from releasing that in 3rd as often.

I'm not sure that production problem will be resolved in 4th. But double boxes did happen in the past, I see no reason they can't happen again in the future. It was definitely not a question of not selling enough, they tended to be sold out quite fast every time they were on pre-order.

If I remember correctly, the boxes in 2nd ed usually had new models for one of the two faction at most (outside of a new foot hero) and did not meaningfully advance the narrative. I think that's the proposed change that would make these boxes feel more exciting.

[Sarouan]

Just now, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

If I remember correctly, the boxes in 2nd ed usually had new models for one of the two faction at most (outside of a new foot hero) and did not meaningfully advance the narrative. I think that's the proposed change that would make these boxes feel more exciting.

Define "meaningfully". They tended to have hints about some events described in later books. All of them had a nice lil "personnal campaign" between the characters represented (they even had names, even if the profiles were "generic"). But true enough, each of these boxes didn't mean one of the Chaos Gods died or whole Realm collapsing. Not sure we really need ground-breaking changes with every box release.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

9 minutes ago, Sarouan said:

Define "meaningfully".

In AoS terms, an event that changes the state of the world on at least a medium scale. The fall of Anvilgard could be an example.

[Sarouan]

Just now, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

In AoS terms, an event that changes the state of the world on at least a medium scale. The fall of Anvilgard could be an example.

Anvilgard is just a named town on the map. So I guess the events in the box opposing flesh-eater courts and clan skryre skavens where it was about invading a whole ruined empire of ghouls by the skavens could be labelled as such - even if they were talking about a part of the realms that were never mentionned on the map before. To be fair, at that time, AoS universe was still growing.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

6 minutes ago, Sarouan said:

Anvilgard is just a named town on the map. So I guess the events in the box opposing flesh-eater courts and clan skryre skavens where it was about invading a whole ruined empire of ghouls by the skavens could be labelled as such - even if they were talking about a part of the realms that were never mentionned on the map before. To be fair, at that time, AoS universe was still growing.

A bunch of nobodies fighting over a place that was not previously described and never appeared in the lore again is not a significant change to the state of the world.

[GrimDork]

I'm not sure I really get the "easy to paint" argument. When I was younger I just wanted what looked cool and being "able" to paint it never entered my mind. Plus we now live in an age where GW sell contrast paint and have stores with staff who offer painting advice as well as a whole studio devoted to creating painting videos/tutorials. People have sited Island of Blood selling poorly as some kind of proof that boxes with detailed (harder to paint) models don't sell well, but IoB was more likely just a victim of timing and the success of LotR and general decline in WFB.

I used to love the WFB edition boxes, with different factions being given attention, the only format was "good" vs "evil".

The argument that stormcast are a more recognisable IP is fair enough. Today's news of Sacrosanct chamber & others being phased out just shows how arbitrary sticking to one faction in starter boxes is. You can't give one faction that much design/production space without having to make harsh cuts at some point. I wonder if it will make anyone think twice about buying the new edition starter? These minis may not be useable in 6/7 years?

[Clan's Cynic]

I'm neutral.

I don't mind Stormcast being in every starter set because, as others have already said, they're a very good 'starter' army and were clearly designed from the ground up to be exactly that. Plus the start of the new edition is their only real release wave, unlike 40k where you can expect at least half a dozen variations of Loyalist Power Armour to appear in an edition so the fatigue is real. True, Stormcast do get more in that way than most armies, but it could be a lot worse.

On the other hand, having two different armies back in Fantasy was something I actually quite liked. Variety is the spice of life as they say, so having two different armies getting big new releases/updates to older sculpts is certainly nothing to scoff at.

 

Edited April 4 by Clan's Cynic

[EthanolMuffins]

On 4/3/2024 at 3:37 AM, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

A lot to consider with this question.

From my own perspective as a selfish player: Please put two of the factions I already play in the starter so I can get their models for cheap. Awaiting Cities vs. OBR for 5th, please and thank you. But of course, that's not what the question is really about.

I don't know that Stormcast have to be in every starter box like Space Marines have to be. AoS is not quite that polarized. For what it's worth, I think they have been doing a good job making Stormcast cooler with every starter, to the point that I will probably get into the army in 4th. So I don't feel the releases have been a waste. But it's a well known problem that the Stormcast range is bloated right now. Let's see if the upcoming index can fix that. But even if, I think that is a problem to be conscious of, and I think the AoS guys at GW are conscious of it. They are redoing some old kits this time around, after all.

I will defend Stormcast as being the best "default starter" faction out of all the factions that are currently in the game. It makes sense, since they were purpose-built for it. Big dudes, elite, easy to paint (getting easier, in fact, compared to the old Fatcast). Overall pretty cool guys, especially if you are into the superhuman divine warrior trope. But their fluff is actually interesting beyond that, as well.

I play Cities and I love them. They are currently my favourite AoS army. But they would be a bad starter faction. Too intricate models, of which you need too many to field an army. Cool in a downtrodden way, which not everyone likes. And the army rules are really atypical, too.

In my opinion, until they design another easy to paint, elite faction with wide appeal, Stormcast need to stick around in the starter. But I don't think that faction necessarily needs to be GA: Order. I could imagine something like Slaves to Darkness taking the spot. However, that still leaves open the question of who to pair them with, if not Stormcast. Certainly not Cities, IMO, unless the next Cities release looks quite different from the current one. And the other Order factions don't really have main-character energy.

 

Seraphon aren't the hardest to paint, so they could be stuck in a box

[Grimrock]

I've got two problems with stormcast in every starter. The first is the forced redundancy it creates. Due to the convention the starter box always has all new miniatures (which can be resculpts of previous miniatures). In addition because it's a starter box it always has to include basic troopers. That means that at the very least GW needs to sculpt a new basic trooper for stormcast every edition, which is why we're now essentially on our 4th iteration of a liberator and why they're already throwing out models from last edition. GW seems either unwilling or perhaps incapable of acknowledging that this is an issue and so there is no sign of it stopping. This is awful for everyone, a waste of precious design resources and a waste of customer time and money. 

The second is purely personal but honestly I find stormcast unbearably boring. They're literally all the same guy with slightly different equipment. Dude with a shield and hammer. Dude with a spear and shield. Dude with a small crossbow and axe. Dude with a slightly larger crossbow and no axe. Marginally slightly larger dude with a hammer and shield. There's some minor variation when you get to the characters (dude with horn and dude with bow!) but even then it's not really significant until you get to the unique named ones. They're just so repetitive to model and paint. I really don't understand how anyone can get through a whole army of them without pulling their hair out. I tried once and I got like 10 models in before I couldn't take it any more. I have the same issues with space marines though and given how popular they are it's probably just me. 

Edited April 14 by Grimrock

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

35 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

The second is purely personal but honestly I find stormcast unbearably boring. They're literally all the same guy with slightly different equipment. Dude with a shield and hammer. Dude with a spear and shield. Dude with a small crossbow and axe. Dude with a slightly larger crossbow and no axe. Marginally slightly larger dude with a hammer and shield. There's some minor variation when you get to the characters (dude with horn and dude with bow!) but even then it's not really significant until you get to the unique named ones. They're just so repetitive to model and paint. I really don't understand how anyone can get through a whole army of them without pulling their hair out. I tried once and I got like 10 models in before I couldn't take it any more. I have the same issues with space marines though and given how popular they are it's probably just me. 

It definitely ain't just you! I agree wholeheartedly. Even though I've played against them quite a few times, I've never been interested enough to learn the Thingicators from the Whatsiticators. They're dreadfully dull. But evidently that's what works for a lot of people. 

[Sception]

Stormcast in every starter box?  What?  I'm thinking back, and I'm pretty sure there weren't any stormcast in the 2e starter box already.

Do you mean the stormcast pictured on the box cover & rulebook?  I did think it was weird that they were pictured so prominently when there weren't any stormcast models in the starter box, plus it was a bit awkward to run demo games with only a single faction in the box.

So I guess I'd prefer stormcast in every starter box over that.