Future Of AoS

[Gitzdee]

Ok im just thinking out loud here. If 3rd edition is finished a substantial part of AoS will have decent sculpts. After 4th edition all armies should be updated or have received a 2nd wave. What will they do after that? Release more armies? Start refreshing all over again? Another End Times? My guess is GW already has to be planning what they want to do in the future. Any ideas?

[Ejecutor]

4 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

Ok im just thinking out loud here. If 3rd edition is finished a substantial part of AoS will have decent sculpts. After 4th edition all armies should be updated or have received a 2nd wave. What will they do after that? Release more armies? Start refreshing all over again? Another End Times? My guess is GW already has to be planning what they want to do in the future. Any ideas?

I think we are too far in time to have all armies even close to be updated. I would say we need at least another 3 editions in order to be in that point. So we would slowly be getting refreshes and new units and sporadic new factions until 2032. Maybe then they would start over again.

[Daylight Sneak]

Games Workshop could also put greater focus and resources on the Age of Sigmar side games at some point, when they think that the main line is in decent to good and healthy shape, e.g. all the current factions have got their roster and ranges updated to modern standard. They could start expanding Warcry or Underworlds in surprising ways we'd have never thought of, or experiment with brand new Warhammer Quest board games, or something similar.

[Gitzdee]

I think they could also just get rid of older models. I also think its a necessary evil to prevent every tome to end up like Stormcasts. I think they took a step towards that with CoS. A lot of other subfactions are on the same boat. Like Spiderfang, Bonesplitterz etc. I wont like it if they get removed instead of updated but im not buying more 15+ year old models at this point. They also just look bad compared to all the new stuff they are putting out. 

[Daylight Sneak]

Oopsie, wanted to edit my comment but I was too slow. 

Adding in:

I, for one, would like if there was a new PvE board game system similar to some of the Warhammer Quests, but more theme-agnostic, or "generic", if you will. A core system that could work on its own, or be expanded with homebrew scenarios or pre-made supplements, narratives and scenarios, and you could use the miniatures from the main line, Warcry, or Underworlds. Not quite a RPG, but something board gamey with a possibility for quick play with friends.

[Gitzdee]

59 minutes ago, Snarff said:

I don't think all armies are going to be updated/have a second wave after 4th. That's quite an insane number of second waves. In order alone that's Fyreslayers, KO, DoK and IDK who have yet to receive a second wave, and CoS who just got their first wave. Then there's Lumineth which still need 2 temples worth of waves, Seraphon who still have quite a few outdated kits. DoK and Sylvaneth have a few kits that could really stand to be brought up to AoS standards too.

And that's not even mentioning the Thunderstricification of Stormcast.

Then Chaos has Skaven and BoC that need to be basically completely redone. Every chaos god army has at least a few resin kits that really need updates too.

Death has FeC which are in dire need of an expansion, and OBR which has yet to receive a wave 2. And SBGL for all its kits has mostly got named foot vampires with a lot of battleline still looking outdated.

Destruction same thing, with armies like Bonesplitterz literally just having an UW warband as new models for the entirety of AoS. Kruleboyz need a second wave, Ogors are in desparate need of quite a lot of kit remakes, Gloomspite could really use updates to Spiderfang, Troggoth expansions, some reworks of the more outdated kits etc.

That's a LOT to do in 3-4 years. AoS is waaaay too succesful for an End Times scenario, with GWs financials confirming the game to only be growing, which is an immesurable step up from how WFB fared for at least 3 editions before it got blown up.

I'm guessing that alongside the huge amount of updates to current armies that are still necessary there are at least a few more armies coming (Malerion, Grungi) and some substantial subfactions (Gitmob, Grotbag, more CoS, Gholemkind, Kurnothi, Lumineth River and Lumineth Sun, Stormcast chambers, etc.) which should be more than enough for at least 2 more editions.

Imho most of Fyreslayers, IDK, KO, OBR and DoK arent really in need of new models. It would be really nice if they get more tools to play around with. But its not the same as lets say Spiderfang and other whfb era miniatures. 

[Gitzdee]

51 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Here's one thing I believe, though: The old dwarf and dark elf kits are not leaving cities to go into another faction (Grungni dwarves/Malerion elves). They either stay in cities and eventually get replaced with new sculpts or they are cut from the game. Let's hope it's the former, somehow.

This is what i believe GW is doing at the moment to clean out the battletomes.

[novakai]

It would be nice to have more shows on Warhammer +, I know 40K is more popular but only having 1.25 shows and both done by the same hammer and bolter animators makes it lacking

[Snarff]

1 hour ago, Gitzdee said:

Imho most of Fyreslayers, IDK, KO, OBR and DoK arent really in need of new models. It would be really nice if they get more tools to play around with. But its not the same as lets say Spiderfang and other whfb era miniatures. 

They don't need updated models, but they really need new models in the sense of new units/heroes/behemoths. At leaast 6+ per army.

Spiderfang is a subfaction. They could use more, but not as much as the armies that are really lacking units since they also have access to the entire rest of the army. And since they are not their own army or battletome, I don't know if their existance is guaranteed from here on.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Snarff

[Chikout]

The New Ard Boyz are the 4th version of that unit. The Saurus are the 4th version of that kit. I do think they are plateauing. I'm not sure how they can improve some of the newer kits but there's still hundreds of kits for which that isn't true.

I think they'll redo all tha smaller deamons and the Bloodthirster in the not to distant future. We'll eventually get new Temple Guard new skinks, new stegadon, new Moonclan grots, new Gluttons, new Man-eaters, new Marauders (Darkoath), new Bloodreavers, new wrathmongers, new Korgoraths, new Graveguard, new Zombie dragon, new liberators, new Minotaurs, new Shaggoth, new Flaggellants, new doomfire warlocks, new Dryads and more. 

That's at least two editions of updates and that's not counting any added units or new factions. 

[madmac]

2 hours ago, Gitzdee said:

Imho most of Fyreslayers, IDK, KO, OBR and DoK arent really in need of new models. It would be really nice if they get more tools to play around with. But its not the same as lets say Spiderfang and other whfb era miniatures. 

At this point, I would honestly say that there's no meaningful difference in age or quality between late 8th edition WHFB models and early AoS models.  As AoS slides towards it's 9th year, the important distinction between 8-9 vs 10-11 year old plastic models becomes  vague at best. I expect old models will be replaced on a case-by-case as always. Even setting that aside, there's not that many fantasy holdover models left anyways. It's inevitable that GW will begin setting their sights on replacing and updating older AoS models, and I actually think we'll see the first major indication of this with 4th edition and the next wave of Stormcast.

[Gitzdee]

9 minutes ago, madmac said:

At this point, I would honestly say that there's no meaningful difference in age or quality between late 8th edition WHFB models and early AoS models.  As AoS slides towards it's 9th year, the important distinction between 8-9 vs 10-11 year old plastic models becomes  vague at best. I expect old models will be replaced on a case-by-case as always. Even setting that aside, there's not that many fantasy holdover models left anyways. It's inevitable that GW will begin setting their sights on replacing and updating older AoS models, and I actually think we'll see the first major indication of this with 4th edition and the next wave of Stormcast.

I agree with most of what u are saying and its not really the quality of the models thats the problem but the design. Some are clearly designed with rank and file in mind, like the Savage Orruks. As much as i love the whfb models they feel out of place in Age of Sigmar.

[SunStorm]

AoS will never be complete as such, it's a constant cycle. 

It will be a mix of range refreshes, smaller waves of new units, maybe occasionally a new army/sub faction. Secondary games will also be used to release interesting or niche units. Basically the 40/Killteam way of doing things now, but we have both Underworlds and Warcry to release smaller releases\alternative sculpts. 

To me, it feels like AoS is where some of the more exciting sculpts are coming from right now. The Mortal Realms really give the designers free reign to come up with fantastic ideas and this gives me hope it will continue to put out cool things for many years to come.

 

[novakai]

I mean careful where refreshing are going, most of the old models being ask to be replace are also relatively cheap compare to other battleline (daemons, clanrats, grots, and skinks) when termagaunts and hormagaunts where refresh they where price outrageously if not prohibitively high for a standard horde units.

of course in the end this may just be an inevitable as GW far as GW pricing structure goes.

[Acrozatarim]

I would be very surprised if Age of Sigmar got End Times'd any time soon. Even once all factions and their model ranges are fully updated, I expect that'll be more a case of AoS entering its prime than the beginning of the end.

Creating and building on an IP like this takes huge amounts of effort and money. I doubt anyone is in any sort of rush to move on from AoS unless the financials make it a necessary move for the company's health, as may have been the case with WHFB in the end.

[JackStreicher]

Invalidating Factions by Story Events. Killing them off or mixing them into new Factions.

the same goes for warscrolls.

[Chikout]

24 minutes ago, novakai said:

I mean careful where refreshing are going, most of the old models being ask to be replace are also relatively cheap compare to other battleline (daemons, clanrats, grots, and skinks) when termagaunts and hormagaunts where refresh they where price outrageously if not prohibitively high for a standard horde units.

of course in the end this may just be an inevitable as GW far as GW pricing structure goes.

Unfortunately that's definitely part of the plan. 

[Beliman]

3 hours ago, Gitzdee said:

Imho most of Fyreslayers, IDK, KO, OBR and DoK arent really in need of new models. It would be really nice if they get more tools to play around with. But its not the same as lets say Spiderfang and other whfb era miniatures. 

Imho, fyreslayers, IDK, KO, OBR and DoK need more basic and subthemed models. Each of this armies should have at least the option to build 2 to 3 armies of renown based on their subthemes.

That's the minimum to expect for a GW main game.

[KriticalKhan]

Eventually, we're going to reach a point where most of the units are redone or "good enough" and most updates each edition are nothing more than new books and maybe a hero model. It's the same standard 40k and Fantasy had for much of their lifetimes and it's reasonable to expect AoS to end up in a similar state when GW can't keep adding factions forever. They're also fine with keeping some models in production for 20+ years, so don't expect updates to 1e AoS stuff anytime soon.

My optimistic view is that we'll keep getting "second waves" to AoS concepts and maybe even new sub-factions for existing armies---ideas like the Kurnothi for Sylvaneth, or what the Witch Elves used to be for the Dark Elves in Fantasy: new units with new aesthetics and functions that still fit in the broader theme of their base faction. That would keep the overall number of factions to a reasonable level while still allowing new ideas and releases that might draw someone into a faction more than "old infantry but in a new pose with more greebly bits" updates might.

[Gitzdee]

3 hours ago, Acrozatarim said:

I would be very surprised if Age of Sigmar got End Times'd any time soon. Even once all factions and their model ranges are fully updated, I expect that'll be more a case of AoS entering its prime than the beginning of the end.

Creating and building on an IP like this takes huge amounts of effort and money. I doubt anyone is in any sort of rush to move on from AoS unless the financials make it a necessary move for the company's health, as may have been the case with WHFB in the end.

I also think AoS is a healthy game with almost limitless potential in the way the mortal realms are designed. Great stuff for this kind of hobby.

[Gotz]

remember that the main change between warhammer fantasy and AoS is that now they have an ongoing narrative. Each narrative arc kicks off with a new editon, gets expanded with some one shot books and battletomes and gets a finale in a series of campaign books. 

It really doesn't matter if they made up the stories because they designed some new toys or if its the other way around. We get the story to advance and new minis.

And inbetween all this releases we get more fluff, sidestories and explore the realms in the boxed games...

So as everyone has said, we'll get new models, range refreshes and at some point some housekeeping when there are too many references that can be handled/make bussiness sense.

 

[novakai]

I rather they focus on the narrative a bit more during the whole edition instead of sidelining it until almost the end of the edition.

at least with 40K they release crusade packs regularly during their codex release even if some of those narrative very inconsequential to the greater galaxy.

[Dawi not Duardin]

Boring point, but ultimately what lies in the future will depend on what makes GW money. They are a very profit-driven company.

I posted this in the rumour thread once and it was not a popular thought. But, as they did not shy away from an End Times before, I could see them End Times-ing AoS if it doesn't prove profitable enough over time. (It doesn't help that other systems I enjoyed way back when, including Warmaster and Mordheim, are gone too.) I think ToW is a bit of a test rocket here. It might well be possible that, in the light of the success of Total War, old-school fantasy proves to be more popular than AoS. Then I wouldn't put it past GW to nuke AoS to return to the old system.

But then, that is admittedly a pessimistic possibility. There are also many more positive ones. Perhaps they keep WHFB as a side game to AoS. Perhaps they alternate between which one of them is their main fantasy game. Or perhaps the TOW/WHFB experiment fails and they drop it instead. It is hard to say what will happen. I wish I could have more faith in them as a company, but fundamentally they are so profit-driven that they will just rush after whatever they take the market preferences to be. And where will they go? Good question...

What I hope will happen is however that they find some lore way to make WHFB and AoS compatible. In particular I hope they will write them as settings that are part of some sort of eternal cycle of worlds dying and repopulating. (They already hinted at that quite excessively in the End Times lore.) Then you would be able to treat both settings as living as a player, and I could have my classic dwarf shieldwall cake and eat my Kharadron spaceships too, while feeling that both of them are active...

...but then that's an ideal. My more realistic hope is that they at least could be more reliable. The End Times still make it hard for me to invest wholeheartedly in a GW games system, since I don't know if they will nuke it in a few years' time. I wish they would give players better assurances given how much investment the games require.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

That's quite a complex question for a thread. We're close to the 10 y/o mark for AoS, there's a lot of work that has been done but there's still much to do. AoS is, for me, still a WIP game and universe, even if the majority of that work is in the rear view mirror imo.

Let's start by an opinion of mine. To me, a healthy army is an army where you can buy on the GW store every single warscroll the army has (without spamming the same warscroll twice) and reach 2000 pts, and where you can buy every non-leader warscrolls on the webstore (units/behemoths/warmachines/invocations, excluding underworlds bands but counting warcry bands) and reach 1000 pts. As an example, Votann fail this test because if you buy every single one of their datasheets on the GW store once, you reach ~1700 pts. So far, the only AoS army to fail this test is Fyreslayers because they can't reach 1000 pts of unique, unrepeated non-leader warscrolls. The rest of the ranges are fine in that regard.

To me, there's 2 sorts of paths to expand AoS. One is replacing WFB era and FW resin minis, the other is adding new stuff to already existing armies. Replacing WFB minis is a no brainer, we already know who it concerns : Skaven, Ogres, Beastmen, half of Cities, Bonesplitters, Spiderfang, the vast majority of Daemons. All of those will get new minis at some point, because GW is known to replace older, out of date kits with new ones (the when it happens doesn't matter here). 
The "adding more stuff to already existing armies" is more complicated. To me, a close to perfect army is one that has between 25 and 55 warcsrolls (this is a totally personal and arbitrary limit), excluding underworlds band but counting warcry bands and endless spells/invocations. For example, using this model, Nighthaunt has 30 warscrolls, it is good. StD has 54 warcrolls, it's at the edge of bloat but still in my ok territory. IIn this model, doneth has 17 warcsrolls, which makes them an army that needs help because it's too small, and SCE have 79 warscrolls, which makes them bloated. because it's too big. Some armies will likely never reach these levels, like Sons of Behemat, and it's not neceserally a bad thing. as long as they respect my first rule of 2000/1000 pts of healthyness

That's leaves us with the future of AoS. It's either (because it is what's needed) :

• Refreshing : Skaven, Ogres, Beastmen, Cities, Warclans, Gitz, Daemons
• Release more armies : Chaos dwarfs, Malerion's shadow elves (maybed souped with DoK which I hope happens for my 25+ warscrolls rule)
• Additions: Fyreslayers more than anyone. After that, KO, IDK, Sylvaneth, Lumineth (even if they're good sized Tyrion needs to happen), OBR, FEC

Another End Times ? Never gonna happen. End Times only happened because WFB was a dying license that was falling into irrelevance (something die-hard WFB fans still can't grasp). AoS is doing better than what WFB ever did even in the 00s. GW won't kill their fantasy game to start all over again when same fantasy game has never worked better.

[Flippy]

37 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

To me, there's 2 sorts of paths to expand AoS. One is replacing WFB era and FW resin minis, the other is adding new stuff to already existing armies. Replacing WFB minis is a no brainer, we already know who it concerns : Skaven, Ogres, Beastmen, half of Cities, Bonesplitters, Spiderfang, the vast majority of Daemons. All of those will get new minis at some point, because GW is known to replace older, out of date kits with new ones (the when it happens doesn't matter here). 

GW is also known to cut some sub-factions entirely and/or replace them with something same-but-different (HE --> Lumineth). I'm specifically concerned with Bonesplitterz and Spiderfang. But it is safe to assume that even if these go, we will get something in return.