AoS Cities of Sigmar Battletome 2023 Discussion

[Asbestress]

29 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

They generally like to throw one non-spamable kit in there. I could imagine a Castelites box with the Major, Fusiliers and Cannon. Or maybe a box that includes the Freeguild General/Marshal/Karl Franz if they want to shift some old kits.

My problem with the Castelite idea is that it is something I'd get like 2-3 of and not have any other kits and I don't want that to happen because I actually want some variety 😛

[The Lost Sigmarite]

When the vanguard drops I'll try to create with you guys' help a "budget", beginner friendly list at 1000 pts using it as a core, to help newer players get started with Cities. And I'll also try to get a buying guide on what to get next to go to 1500, then 2000 pts. 

A bit like what happened previously on the thread with the army set, except with more thought put into it and more complete.

[Lord Krungharr]

I would totally buy the old Volkmar the Grimm on War Altar....would be a great proxy for the new palanquin lady.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

In this case the ward is not achieved via a prayer to Sigmar - Volkmar's epic moustache just gives the ward to nearby sigmarites.

[Doko]

hard to know what gonna have the vanguard box,some as vampires had all new models but the seraphon had the trex that was old.

also who know if gonna be only humans or a mix,because i dont think we gonna get more than one vanguard as we did with the start collectings.

i would love if the box is fussiliers+new canon+steamtank. or karl franz+fussiliers x2

usually the new army get also a battleforce,but being to close in date i dont think we get it this year

[Draznak]

50 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

When the vanguard drops I'll try to create with you guys' help a "budget", beginner friendly list at 1000 pts using it as a core, to help newer players get started with Cities. And I'll also try to get a buying guide on what to get next to go to 1500, then 2000 pts. 

You already have a reader who'll be looking forward to it. 😉

[Ejecutor]

I've been listening to a video analysis and it feels we are in good shape. Zenestra is a good!, but I see a problem. As 4th edition is not that far from the official release on the battletome, maybe what we see now as "OP" has been done looking for into 4th than 3rd and we would be in the average placement again?

[ColsBols]

Dwarfbros how are we feeling about this? I get that we seem to have gotten the short end of the stick (pun intended) but I am so excited at the chance to stick my old cannons, cannonball holders and other skull pass bros on a 50mm round and call it a greatcannon. Also looking into 3d printing some shields/barriers to use the old thunderers as fusiliers

[Doko]

i have a mixed citys army,but it is mostly dwarfs(2,5k from my 4k points of cos are dwarfs).

i think me and every dwarf player have the same feeling with this book: DWARFS HAVE BEEN FORGOTTEN BY GW,in the lore we have been forgotten with 0 focus on this book,also in the art,in entire book outside of the warscrolls we have 0 pics or pictures(oniy in the 2 pages speaking about factions we get ONE old picture of belegar,omg they havent even draw a new picture and in entire book we only get a reused  phantasy picture). also in rules we have been forgotten,with half or 1/3 options and enhacements than humans and our warscrolls if we ignore hammerers and lomgbeards the others are the worst scrolls of this book

we lost 9999999 buffs availables and rigth now we have only two or so and nerfed versions(as the rend of runelord).

also our irondrakes went from be great with full buffs and setup to be garbagge umplayable.

the gyrocopter lost its trademark weapon that was a flamer and now is only good for collect dust untill old world.

only hammerers are good,and even that unit got a errata and is missing captain,standard and musician.lol that answer us the attention that gw have gave to dwarf on this book when they forgot event the stats of one unit.

 

in general the feeling as dwarf is fully neglected,seeing as the humans have multiples combos and buffs to choose and elfs are plain better in everithing than us and also have many combos and buffs meanwhile dwarfs havent combos neither buffs.

only a glance to our KING! and that gives us??? the single worst buffer hero in entire aos,only a joke skill for one time per game and even then is useless and worse than a +1 hit. our king must be huge and gives us a +1 atk armywide one time per game,inmune leadership or somethimg big.

i have for building and get ready to some dwarfs kits yet but i have lost all the motivation and i have bougth the anvilguard start collecting(before they remove it) a box of pirates and a sorcerer that i gonna build now that i have put in hold the dwarfs.

i hope old world gives us justice and dwarfs be good and playables.

 

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Doko

[Lord Veshnakar]

I'm just honestly so disappointed that there isn't a generic hero option for the new manticore. I suppose I can just get creative and "use as" though but it will make playing Lethis weird. Thrilled about the rest of the range though and excited to play them.

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Lord Veshnakar

[Beliman]

10 hours ago, Doko said:

then why remove this and not general on gryfon?

 

I suppose that they are the next ones with elfs and dwarfs to be removed.
I would never suggest to buy any of this kits, unless you love their design and/or you plan to play TOW.

[JackStreicher]

12 hours ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Well guess who just got a headstart for the BT release by founding 5 Freeguild Cavaliers hidden in his bedroom ? 

I really do hope they're the same base size... Now all I gotta do is motivate myself to paint the last 3.

Nope, Cavaliers have 60mm ovals

 

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by JackStreicher

[JackStreicher]

5 hours ago, ColsBols said:

Also looking into 3d printing some shields/barriers

I‘ll be 3D modelling shields for my Handgunners. If you want the file (once it’s done) as well I will send it to you.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

I‘ll be 3D modelling shields for my Handgunners. If you want the file (once it’s done) as well I will send it to you.

That sounds super useful for people who want to keep using their old models. I still see a lot of people asking why the guns of the Fusiliers regressed in their level of technology. Personally, I find the explanation from the battletome very charming:

One Dawnbringer crusade makes improvised mobile palisades one time while under attack from some Kruleboyz. Azyrean burocrats hear about it and decide "Our armies shall be walking castles, armed with miniature cannons and carrying their own walls". The actual soldiers go: "Wait, that sounds super heavy and inconvenient for most environments." And the response is: "Well too bad, we have already implemented it as standard everywhere."

This is exactly the kind of ridiculousness I want from warhammer.

[dekay]

14 hours ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

I really do hope they're the same base size... Now all I gotta do is motivate myself to paint the last 3.

Bad news is, no, you need to rebase them to 60mm. Good news is, Demigryphs look perfectly well on 60mm bases. I've seen them mounted on old rectangular cavalry bases once (for use in Kings of War) i think, and if they fit those, 60mm should pose zero problem.

Also, guys, I've been thinking:

Freeguild Command unit as a standalone element. Let's ignore their buff potential for a moment and look at them in isolation:

They are a small, pretty low profile unit that's easy to hide (just 6 small models). They have 18 wounds and automatically regenerate d3 a turn as long as the surgeon is alive.  So pretty solid for holding an objective somewhere close to your friendly territory.

And here comes their ability to semi-reliably ****** up enemy commands. With unlimited range. Imagine doing this to heroes for whom powerful commands are like half a reason to take them, like Katakros.

I feel like taking those guys, even in a Duardin or Aelf based army, might be worth it just for that effect, they're not too expensive. Plus, if you take any steelhelms as a screen, or fusiliers for extra firepower, command team will provide them some useful buffs as well.

[Marcvs]

42 minutes ago, dekay said:

And here comes their ability to semi-reliably ****** up enemy commands. With unlimited range. Imagine doing this to heroes for whom powerful commands are like half a reason to take them, like Katakros.

that ability is so "4+ you win the game" in some matchups, I think they are worth their points even as allies in Stormcast 😅 my feeling is that at current points they will be worthy of consideration in any list which is not trying to go for 1drop

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

51 minutes ago, dekay said:

Bad news is, no, you need to rebase them to 60mm. Good news is, Demigryphs look perfectly well on 60mm bases. I've seen them mounted on old rectangular cavalry bases once (for use in Kings of War) i think, and if they fit those, 60mm should pose zero problem.

Also, guys, I've been thinking:

Freeguild Command unit as a standalone element. Let's ignore their buff potential for a moment and look at them in isolation:

They are a small, pretty low profile unit that's easy to hide (just 6 small models). They have 18 wounds and automatically regenerate d3 a turn as long as the surgeon is alive.  So pretty solid for holding an objective somewhere close to your friendly territory.

And here comes their ability to semi-reliably ****** up enemy commands. With unlimited range. Imagine doing this to heroes for whom powerful commands are like half a reason to take them, like Katakros.

I feel like taking those guys, even in a Duardin or Aelf based army, might be worth it just for that effect, they're not too expensive. Plus, if you take any steelhelms as a screen, or fusiliers for extra firepower, command team will provide them some useful buffs as well.

I like this perspective because I want to run these weirdos but could not really justify them for myself until now. I was thinking of them as support pieces for a block of infantry, but maybe just viewing them as an elite unit that self-heals and stops command abilities is the better way to view them.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

1 hour ago, dekay said:

Also, guys, I've been thinking:

Freeguild Command unit as a standalone element. Let's ignore their buff potential for a moment and look at them in isolation:

They are a small, pretty low profile unit that's easy to hide (just 6 small models). They have 18 wounds and automatically regenerate d3 a turn as long as the surgeon is alive.  So pretty solid for holding an objective somewhere close to your friendly territory.

And here comes their ability to semi-reliably ****** up enemy commands. With unlimited range. Imagine doing this to heroes for whom powerful commands are like half a reason to take them, like Katakros.

I feel like taking those guys, even in a Duardin or Aelf based army, might be worth it just for that effect, they're not too expensive. Plus, if you take any steelhelms as a screen, or fusiliers for extra firepower, command team will provide them some useful buffs as well.

If you take Banners Held High has your grand strategy and take a Command Corps, by keeping your Great Herald alive till the end of the game it can help you score your grand strategy. 

Still pretty niche though I think. I do think going for generic grand strategies will be better.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

36 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

If you take Banners Held High has your grand strategy and take a Command Corps, by keeping your Great Herald alive till the end of the game it can help you score your grand strategy. 

Still pretty niche though I think. I do think going for generic grand strategies will be better.

Banners Held High js my personal favourite among the grand strategies for lists that can support it. I think it's a good one because it is mostly in your control how many banner bearers you get at the list building stage. At worst, your opponent will probably have a similar nummer of banners compared to you if you lean into it, but many armies will run way fewer (hero, monster and elite-heavy armies).

Plus, the command corps can also do a battle tactic for you, so that's cool. My appraisal of these guys keeps goin up.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

A useful post from reddit:

Quote

Since I wanted to proxy a lot of new units, I needed to know the base sizes - and with the knowledge of the models we already know, a standard GW base height of 4mm and the pictures from the leaked battletome I was able to discern most of the base sizes due to their ratio width to height. Take these with a grain of salt as the pictures are bent and I probably didn't measure pixel perfect. If you think something is off or know some units I don't know yet, please let me know

Known from the Box:

Steelhelms (25mm)

Sergeant (32mm)

Cavaliers (standard 60mm oval)

Comparing pictures with side by side box models:

Fusiliers (32mm)

Measuring and calculating:

Warforger (32mm)

Command Squad (all 32mm, Soul Shepherd 40mm)

Zenestra (75mmx42mm oval - that surprised me but I think it's accurate)

Canon (should be 90mm round, Pictures are a bit too warped to discern it accurately)

Wildercorps (dogs 25mm, smaller men 28mm, normal members 32mm, Champ and big gun 40mm - wow, this unit's a mess!)

Shooty Ogre guy (not sure whether 50mm or 60mm round, tending to 50mm)

Cavalier-Sergeant (probably 65mm - no picture at all from the front, so no idea whether round or oval... I'd guess oval, but a friend of mine insists it's round)

 

[The Lost Sigmarite]

So we get different base sizes on the unit depending if the mini is a champion or a regular dude ? Talk about confusion...

Btw, I was asking myself about which cool centerpiece model to recommend/choose. We all love huge models to anchor our collection, so which ones will you choose now for Cities ? Tahlia and her manticore ? Griffon Marshall ? I'm going for Steam Tanks personally.

[Asbestress]

5 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

So we get different base sizes on the unit depending if the mini is a champion or a regular dude ? Talk about confusion...

Btw, I was asking myself about which cool centerpiece model to recommend/choose. We all love huge models to anchor our collection, so which ones will you choose now for Cities ? Tahlia and her manticore ? Griffon Marshall ? I'm going for Steam Tanks personally.

Spoiler

Sergeant is on a 25mm. Don't know where the 32 came from.

And of course Steam Tanks. And maybe that converted Pontifex 😛

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

16 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

So we get different base sizes on the unit depending if the mini is a champion or a regular dude ? Talk about confusion...

Btw, I was asking myself about which cool centerpiece model to recommend/choose. We all love huge models to anchor our collection, so which ones will you choose now for Cities ? Tahlia and her manticore ? Griffon Marshall ? I'm going for Steam Tanks personally.

In my opinion, Tahlia Vedra is the only choice. Everything else is just not impressive looking enough.

Sadly, she's no Megaboss on Mawkrusha (or even VLoZD) stats wise. Her Manticore being named Infernadine is very cute, though. Incinderella vibes.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

In my opinion, Tahlia Vedra is the only choice. Everything else is just not impressive looking enough.

Sadly, she's no Megaboss on Mawkrusha (or even VLoZD) stats wise. Her Manticore being named Infernadine is very cute, though. Incinderella vibes.

My problems with Tahlia is 1/she sorta orients you towards infantry spam (which i do not want to get into) 2/I really don't like Hammerhal Aqsha colour scheme and 3/she's more expensive than a Bloodthirster for worse stats. 

[JackStreicher]

3 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Comparing pictures with side by side box models:

Fusiliers (32mm)

Fusiliers should be the same as the Marshal‘s envoy which is 28mm according to the manual. Fudiliers are closer to the envoy’s than they they’re to the Marahal‘s base size (measured it). At first I assumed 32mm as well

 

It‘s really hard to tell from the warped pages.

Edited August 11, 2023 by JackStreicher