A discussion of the lore of AoS after 7 years

[Whitefang]

On 6/17/2022 at 2:11 AM, JReynolds said:

I'd love to claim credit, but the design studio had the same idea, as did Guymer and most of the other authors. It was only a few people in BL that held onto the idea of them as space marines, at least until just after AoS 2.0 launched. 

Don't know how you think about this information

But please know in the newest sylvaneth battletome there are lots of reference of your works on Ghyran culture, from Ghyranite Knight Order to cultist community of "old stag", almost everything got mentioned.

 

[Baron Klatz]

Not sure if they’re Josh’s work but the Sylvaneth tome also talks about the Rootking Duardin again which is very nice.

(alongside the Ironbark elders going up to Azyr in friendship talks with Grungni and the Oakenbrows having alliance accords with Fyreslayer Lodges. Duardin x Sylvaneth pairings are the best  )

@KingBrodd(you’ll probably like to read this bit next)

Also cool to see some nods to both the old Gargant empires in Ghyran and Sons being Bros in the new Sylvaneth Tome:

Traditionalists and other parts acknowledging their first big lore dump from the past:

“Others believe they are the descendants of Behemat, a Zodiac Godbeast rumoured to live in Ghyran. Once mighty forest-warriors and woodland kings whose empires stood in every realm and stretched over the horizon. Coarse and slightly bestial, their pursued civilisation up to a certain point as they weren't partial to excessive clothing and lacked personal hygiene.

-2016 Destruction Grand Alliance tome, Aleguzzler section.”

AoS3 has been really good on referencing and even expanding on stuff from AoS1 which includes Josh’s ideas(see my older post on the Krondspine Incarnate being just like his Ghur horror creatures) and it’s fantastic to see.  

[Warfiend]

On 6/16/2022 at 7:55 PM, Loyal Son of Khemri said:

So Stormcast Eternals were saved from becoming Fantasy-Space Marines due to one author's habit of improvisation..... You can't make this stuff up.

But they are space marines… how were they saved from it?

[Baron Klatz]

They’re not dogmatic Templars but heroic Paladins for one.(though ruthless Vindicators and Excelsiors are there to mix it up like Astartes have the Salamanders for merciful marines contrast, though neither is the norm)

They’re heroic, compassionate, even have cases when reforged countless times can hold onto their charismatic personality to be friendly and save the innocent of even different races and faiths, very big on accepting all peoples and beliefs(with many Stormcasts having gods besides Sigmar), know fear and can panic, and can take joy in drink, feasts or even love with some cases of having a spouse.

Tropes wiki has a good Foil example:

“

• Foil: To the Space Marines, while their scifi counterparts are made from children often forcefully taken to be psycho-conditioned and genetically augmented to serve a doomed dystopian Imperium, the Stormcasts are all heroes saved from last stands where they fought to the very end against Chaos, then are magically empowered, and their main goal is to liberate the Mortal Realms from the grip of the Ruinous Powers. The Space Marines play their transhumanism to the hilt in that they usually tend to be considered as removed from humanity (by themselves and others), while the Stormcasts were once normal people and in many ways remain so still aside from how they're a lot more powerful than they were before. Stormcast have lost everything, know full well of the stakes (since they have experienced them), the concept of losing what they hold dear terrifies them, unlike the Marines who will wantonly throw away their lives.”
• 
  I’d put them closer to DND Paladins + Order version Chaos Warriors + Dark Souls hollowed monster knights.

[Gitzdee]

I have a question that about king Throgg. Any chance that he is ever going back into Gloomspite Gitz as they are the Troggoth Faction? Any Chance he could not be aligned with Chaos as? Has he even been spotted in the mortal realms or are the Troggoths kingsless? Dont really know much about this character besides the wiki/fandom info. 

[Clan's Cynic]

2 hours ago, Gitzdee said:

I have a question that about king Throgg. Any chance that he is ever going back into Gloomspite Gitz as they are the Troggoth Faction? Any Chance he could not be aligned with Chaos as? Has he even been spotted in the mortal realms or are the Troggoths kingsless? Dont really know much about this character besides the wiki/fandom info. 

I'd assume Throgg is dead and buried, given his connection to WoC and his model no longer being sold even with a rename.

If we saw a Troggoth special character they'd presumably be an original, AoS-only character with no real connection beyond maybe some design nods.

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Clan's Cynic

[Gitzdee]

7 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I'd assume Throgg is dead and buried, given his connection to WoC and his model no longer being sold even with a rename.

If we saw a Troggoth special character they'd presumably be an original, AoS-only character with no real connection beyond maybe some design nods.

 

If thats the case i would like Azhags crown to be picked up by a random Troggoth and kill 3 birds with one stone.

1. Get a new king for the Troggoths.

2. Resurrect Azhags spirit into AoS as his crown is literally put into the Temple of Sigmar for safe keeping.

3. Get a Wizard into the Troggoths subfaction.

Please do this to round out the Era of the Beast.

Edited July 12, 2022 by Gitzdee

[CommissarRotke]

So we got another SCRAP of lore/lore direction today 😭

"This harsh land has made the peoples of Ghur into hardy hunters who revel in battle. Sigmar’s Dawnbringer Crusades have made inroads, founding cities such as Excelsis and Colonnade. But even their sturdy walls are no guarantee of safety.***

With the Heart of Ghur boxed set you’re taking steps into a much wider fantasy world. Sign up for our newsletter to keep up to date with the latest news on Warcry and Warhammer Age of Sigmar."

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/07/14/heres-how-warcrys-gnarlwood-setting-fits-in-with-the-rest-of-ghur/

Not sure about the lore of Excelsis' founding that this may have 'retconned' but I love the map in this article and the declaration at the end seems to say "HEY we're just starting."

[Querl Dox]

Lots of good and interesting conversation. I think GW made a really big design mistake when it went ultra high fantasy. First, authors tend to stick to a version of medieval history on a planet similar to earth because you don't have to explain how physics or society works. I have no idea how the physical realm works in the mortal realms - are there tides and currents? Wind patterns? Growing seasons? There's just too much to fill in - and as a game company and not a writer's conglomerate it's never going to get adequately filled in (see Mr. Reynolds comments) - it detracts from the game for me so I just have to ignore the lore. Second, when you have your actual gods on the table, where do you go from here? How are humans or goblins supposed to matter when gods literally walk the earth? I did read where someone mentioned that we're in the era of Superhero-Hammer and I understand what they mean.

Everybody has their own tastes, and there are certainly many who enjoy this high fantasy approach - I'm just not one of them. So, I have to ignore the established lore and tell my own stories as I play.

[xking]

 Ultra high fantasy is why I like Age of Sigmar

[CommissarRotke]

4 hours ago, Querl Dox said:

First, authors tend to stick to a version of medieval history on a planet similar to earth because you don't have to explain how physics or society works. I have no idea how the physical realm works in the mortal realms - are there tides and currents? Wind patterns? Growing seasons?

Why does that ruin your enjoyment though..? Like sure having small things like these fleshed out is great! But why is it NEEDED to you? I could just as easily say sticking to pseudo/faux medieval history is extremely lazy for fantasy writers and is boring, because the writers did not put work into constructing their own world and its rules.

I'm just confused, we can clearly assume that most real world physics applies to Mortal Realms. Food is grown, water flows, wind blows. The main exception being if you get too far away from the core then "real" physics break down due to magic.

[Beliman]

4 hours ago, Querl Dox said:

Second, when you have your actual gods on the table, where do you go from here? How are humans or goblins supposed to matter when gods literally walk the earth?

Dark souls or eldren ring have "gods" walking around, and you can kill them. Imho, gods are not the problem, it's how they interact with our armies what matters.

#killyourgod

[Baron Klatz]

Give me ultra high cosmic mythological fantasy or give me death!

That comment is just the top level laziness I’ve been talking about all over this thread.

”Waaa! It’s not Earth, how can I possibly understand anything now? Having to spend 5 minutes reading a basic wiki summary of how a different world works takes too long.”

Like F. I get different tastes but come on with that, the Sylvaneth just got a whole article that explains the 4 seasons in the mortal realms that affects their bodies, the Deepkin literally use the tides as a weapon, Gloomspite Gitz show how gobbos can challenge the gods and warp entire continents thanks to their mad moon worship, the Lumineth have wheats all over their big bases to show how they’re healing the lands allowing food to grow and the Mega-gargant kraken-eater has a fishing boat with dead crewmen on him and Stormcasts & Kharadron are all about weather control with their storms and flying equipment.

And that’s just basics, just scratch the surface with something like Soulbound and you immediately see cities and farmlands(below Edassa) on the main Great Parch map.

 

Didn’t get Soulbound? Oh well the Corebook has it too.

 

Bother to look into the lore and you actually find things like holidays, the timeframes being longer than our daily time depending on Hysh’s rotation, how North and South work with the edges and gods affecting compasses on the planes, the tons of different currencies like common wood trinkets being a sign of nobility in Chamon and Aqshy, culinary practices like Aqshy bakers being famous as they have tunnels going straight to magma vents, Azyr known for it’s expansive Sky-fishing industry and the Ironweld have armored tractor threshers in Ghyran to harvest huge crops while warding off angered Dreadwood Sylvaneth attacks. 
 

IT’S VERY MUCH FILLED IN AND GETS EXPANDED ALL THE TIME!

https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cuisine_of_the_Mortal_Realms
 

https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Azyrite_Calendar
 

https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Realmsphere
 

https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Category:Currencies (as noted there’s over 50 types throughout the Realms with Aqua Ghyra being the universal pay)

I’m ranting I know but so much of the Mortal Realms lore is reflected in the models, their rules and in every book happy to point out a cool new twist on how people live there.

No excuse, saying “the high fantasy doesn’t make sense to me” is exactly no different than people back in the early 2000’s saying “Warhammer is just a World of Warcraft knock-off, I’m not wasting time scratching past the surface stuff.”

Doesn’t click for you? That’s fine, everyone’s got different tastes. But the fleshing out criticisms aren’t justified in the slightest when we have so much material now ranging from books, articles, campaigns, side-games, warhammer quest, magazines and rpg supplements that fill the lore out.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Baron Klatz

[Beliman]

9 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

But the fleshing out criticisms aren’t justified in the slightest when we have so much material now ranging from books, articles, campaigns, side-games, warhammer quest, magazines and rpg supplements that fill the lore out.

I think that's the main issue. If you need to read 7 books, 3 comics, 9 magazines, 6 interviews to understand one movie, then it's because the movie has a problem.

Fleshing out the universe is not the problem, not knowing enough about your army, your heroes, their stories or any interaction with other armies appart from maybe one battlebox that came 1 year ago, is something that I think it's missing from our battletomes.

I love Soulbound because it helps me to understand the basics of AoS, but just with the Core Book + KOs battletomes, I get more questions than answers.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Beliman

[EccentricCircle]

Precisely, it's not a question of whether the lore exists. It does. But it isn't accessible to a casual player, and that is the issue.

[Baron Klatz]

7 hours ago, Beliman said:

Fleshing out the universe is not the problem, not knowing enough about your army, your heroes, their stories or any interaction with other armies appart from maybe one battlebox that came 1 year ago, is something that I think it's missing from our battletomes.

This I can agree with. More meat on the battletomes is always a plus.

Seems they made a trade back in 2017, before the battletomes were more focused on introducing new heroes and big army battles that went with the Battleplan section in a Narrative story combo like the Bonesplitterz one which laid out a quick scenario story, told about the hero’s background, gave the battleplan so players could fight out the scenario and then told what happened at the end(this case after ambushing the Stormcasts and making them fall off their star road down into Ghur the orruks won and began dancing around the dying Dracoth and Stardrake bodies as they bolted back up into Azyr, hoping to be blessed by their monster energy. Zogruk himself headbutts a Stardrake in the skull which causes it to bemusedly accept defeat and bolt up with the rest of the army)

Now those battleplan are just tacked on little fight maps. 
 

BUT the Battletomes are now bigger on giving out sub-factions, the innerlands maps of their Realm, linking together the history of army with all it’s other stories and side games  and do delve on the backstory on major characters. The recent NightHaunt tome has been good on this with it’s updated map and talking about Olynder’s past which are huge step ups from the previous tomes of pre-2017.

 

reviewer on it:

“Speaking of Olynder, we get a two page spread called the Haunted Empire that shows where Sylontum, the capital of Dolorum, is, and how the Nighthaunt have spread across the realm from there. We also learn more about the kingdom of Dolorum before it fell to Nagash. It was founded in the underworld of those who saw injustice, but did not speak up against it. It also conquered much of the surrounding lands, including the island of Tzlid, the current home of the Unmade warcry warband. After Olynder's takeover of the kingdom, and its fall in the Age of Chaos, it became the new seat of power for the Nighthaunt forces.

For the timeline we get 5 1/2 full pages of new entries! I particularly like the story about Vholdian Keranus, who became the first of Nagash's Lord Executioners during the Age of Myth. We also get the origins of the Quicksilver Dead in the ruins of Elixia, the origins of Awlrach the Drowner, and another of my favorites featuring the Scarlet Doom. In Khul's Ravage in Aqshy, a Dawnbringer Crusade is trying to reclaim the land. So much blood is spilled by the forces of Khorne and souls consigned to death, that the ghosts rise from the pools of blood scattering the land. They then proceed to completely slaughter the Khornate forces, before approaching the Dawnbringers in parley, allowing them safe passage back to their city. We also get all of the major events you would expect, from the Soul Wars, to the events of Forbidden Power and Broken Realms. We even get mention of conflict on the island of Tzlid and someone named the Flayed Prince, who used to be an ally of Olynder's. The final entry has the Nighthaunt instilling the fear of death into the Sons of Behemat after Olynder turns one of their number into a scattering of black rose petals. There's a ton to dig into in here in general.”

(That last bit was in the Sons of Behemat tome too. They couldn’t touch the NightHaunt as their fear from Olynder turning their leader into rose petals spread. It’d take getting taught from the Drakkfoot Bonesplitterz tribe who specialize in fighting the daemons & ghosts of Aqshy how they can physically stomp on the NightHaunt which lead to their “Sole Wars”.)

It’s a pretty good trade for how much it links the more nebulous parts of the setting together with all the other materials so there’s connections while also leaving everything open for whatever you want to put in.

Though I will say I find “battletomes not giving enough” a bit funny from a Kharadron player.

Kharadron and Stormcasts are blessed with the most filled out books. Just look how massive their lexicanum entry is:

https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Kharadron_Overlords
 

7 hours ago, Beliman said:

I think that's the main issue. If you need to read 7 books, 3 comics, 9 magazines, 6 interviews to understand one movie, then it's because the movie has a problem.

But to understand it you really only need the Corebook and your favorite faction tome.

The rest of the material builds on it and gives you a reason to keep collecting and diving in further to the ecosystem.

That’s pretty much been a Warhammer staple for decades now like a huge fishing net of scattered lore.

When I first got into it as a teen I just grabbed some Empire & Bret books from Barnes and Nobles.  The books gave fun stories but little info on how the world worked so I actually thought Brets were imperials in the past before gunpowder. Wasn’t until I got the BRB that everything was explained since warhammer books tend to be faction-only focused giving glimpses of the worlds through one view.(and God-king knows how hollow they’d all be without the RPG’s)

1 hour ago, EccentricCircle said:

Precisely, it's not a question of whether the lore exists. It does. But it isn't accessible to a casual player, and that is the issue.

They’ve been better about it with the community articles. The faction focus stuff and even videos to help.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/05/faction-focus-index/
 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/12/your-intro-to-the-mortal-realms-may-12gw-homepage-post-4/
 

https://ageofsigmar.com/explore-the-realms/order/

But more my rant was on that “I don’t get the world’s basics” part.

There’s two bloody AoS wikis that are a easy click and read away, that’s way more than people had in the distant past that had to juggle multiple books to figure these things out.  
https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Mortal_Realms

https://ageofsigmar.fandom.com/wiki/Mortal_Realms
 

and that’s not even getting into all the lore videos and blogs out there that have setting summaries to welcome new hobbyists.

[EccentricCircle]

12 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

This I can agree with. More meat on the battletomes is always a plus.

Seems they made a trade back in 2017, before the battletomes were more focused on introducing new heroes and big army battles that went with the Battleplan section in a Narrative story combo like the Bonesplitterz one which laid out a quick scenario story, told about the hero’s background, gave the battleplan so players could fight out the scenario and then told what happened at the end(this case after ambushing the Stormcasts and making them fall off their star road down into Ghur the orruks won and began dancing around the dying Dracoth and Stardrake bodies as they bolted back up into Azyr, hoping to be blessed by their monster energy. Zogruk himself headbutts a Stardrake in the skull which causes it to bemusedly accept defeat and bolt up with the rest of the army)

Now those battleplan are just tacked on little fight maps. 
 

BUT the Battletomes are now bigger on giving out sub-factions, the innerlands maps of their Realm, linking together the history of army with all it’s other stories and side games  and do delve on the backstory on major characters. The recent NightHaunt tome has been good on this with it’s updated map and talking about Olynder’s past which are huge step ups from the previous tomes of pre-2017.

 

reviewer on it:

“Speaking of Olynder, we get a two page spread called the Haunted Empire that shows where Sylontum, the capital of Dolorum, is, and how the Nighthaunt have spread across the realm from there. We also learn more about the kingdom of Dolorum before it fell to Nagash. It was founded in the underworld of those who saw injustice, but did not speak up against it. It also conquered much of the surrounding lands, including the island of Tzlid, the current home of the Unmade warcry warband. After Olynder's takeover of the kingdom, and its fall in the Age of Chaos, it became the new seat of power for the Nighthaunt forces.

For the timeline we get 5 1/2 full pages of new entries! I particularly like the story about Vholdian Keranus, who became the first of Nagash's Lord Executioners during the Age of Myth. We also get the origins of the Quicksilver Dead in the ruins of Elixia, the origins of Awlrach the Drowner, and another of my favorites featuring the Scarlet Doom. In Khul's Ravage in Aqshy, a Dawnbringer Crusade is trying to reclaim the land. So much blood is spilled by the forces of Khorne and souls consigned to death, that the ghosts rise from the pools of blood scattering the land. They then proceed to completely slaughter the Khornate forces, before approaching the Dawnbringers in parley, allowing them safe passage back to their city. We also get all of the major events you would expect, from the Soul Wars, to the events of Forbidden Power and Broken Realms. We even get mention of conflict on the island of Tzlid and someone named the Flayed Prince, who used to be an ally of Olynder's. The final entry has the Nighthaunt instilling the fear of death into the Sons of Behemat after Olynder turns one of their number into a scattering of black rose petals. There's a ton to dig into in here in general.”

(That last bit was in the Sons of Behemat tome too. They couldn’t touch the NightHaunt as their fear from Olynder turning their leader into rose petals spread. It’d take getting taught from the Drakkfoot Bonesplitterz tribe who specialize in fighting the daemons & ghosts of Aqshy how they can physically stomp on the NightHaunt which lead to their “Sole Wars”.)

It’s a pretty good trade for how much it links the more nebulous parts of the setting together with all the other materials so there’s connections while also leaving everything open for whatever you want to put in.

Though I will say I find “battletomes not giving enough” a bit funny from a Kharadron player.

Kharadron and Stormcasts are blessed with the most filled out books. Just look how massive their lexicanum entry is:

https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Kharadron_Overlords
 

But to understand it you really only need the Corebook and your favorite faction tome.

The rest of the material builds on it and gives you a reason to keep collecting and diving in further to the ecosystem.

That’s pretty much been a Warhammer staple for decades now like a huge fishing net of scattered lore.

When I first got into it as a teen I just grabbed some Empire & Bret books from Barnes and Nobles.  The books gave fun stories but little info on how the world worked so I actually thought Brets were imperials in the past before gunpowder. Wasn’t until I got the BRB that everything was explained since warhammer books tend to be faction-only focused giving glimpses of the worlds through one view.(and God-king knows how hollow they’d all be without the RPG’s)

They’ve been better about it with the community articles. The faction focus stuff and even videos to help.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/05/faction-focus-index/
 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/12/your-intro-to-the-mortal-realms-may-12gw-homepage-post-4/
 

https://ageofsigmar.com/explore-the-realms/order/

But more my rant was on that “I don’t get the world’s basics” part.

There’s two bloody AoS wikis that are a easy click and read away, that’s way more than people had in the distant past that had to juggle multiple books to figure these things out.  
https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Mortal_Realms

https://ageofsigmar.fandom.com/wiki/Mortal_Realms
 

and that’s not even getting into all the lore videos and blogs out there that have setting summaries to welcome new hobbyists.

For sure. And you're doing a great job telling us stuff from all the books you've read. I'm just finding it frustrating that I can't keep up.

[Baron Klatz]

Haha, keeping up is a hobby in of itself.  

I got multiple bookcases for my library of warhammer books and even then some are out in storage.

I say if you’re having trouble then use the wikis, find lore blogs like Age of Miniatures or AoS Shorts has-

Or a surprisingly good one here on Beastgrave from a mostly 40k blog:

http://ageofwarhammer.blogspot.com/2019/09/beastgrave-lore.html?m=1
 

- sit back and listen to 2+Tough’s lore discussions on YouTube or go and ask questions on the AoSLore sub-Reddit.

 

I will say I hope GW do more lore tomes like with Thondia, I’ve been hooked on mine and I’d love it if they’d expand to more tomes that aren’t anchored by having rules but just go off on delving into the setting.

The Warhammer+ vault feels a bit like that with the tomes being all lore and no rules so if they wanted to recycle that content and publish it in Lore campaign omnibuses I’d be fully on board.  

Stuff like the River of Souls from the 2016 Ironjawz tome need attention again.

[derpherp]

8 hours ago, EccentricCircle said:

For sure. And you're doing a great job telling us stuff from all the books you've read. I'm just finding it frustrating that I can't keep up.

Mmm, as much as there are people like Klatz out there doing a lot to show people that the lore is pretty good it's never going to have the audience reach. Even SoulBound is quite limited as it is a niche within a niche, and the books are quite difficult to get people into as reading books isn't for everyone.

It circles back around to the idea that what AoS needs most of all right now is a good video game. A game that is good not just as an AoS game, but a good video game in general that you can point curious people toward. They get a complete experience from that game and get a full and fleshed out  grasp of the feel of AoS universe and become fans of Age of Sigmar for life. (probably)

It seems like we'll probably be waiting for that game for a long while unfortunately.

But maybe BlackTalon could help a bit in the meantime if it is more of a long form show. Will be interesting to see how it portrays AoS. Hopefully its not all empty vistas and some of the mechanics of the setting are shown.

 

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by derpherp

[Baron Klatz]

56 minutes ago, derpherp said:

It circles back around to the idea that what AoS needs most of all right now is a good video game. A game that is good not just as an AoS game, but a good video game in general that you can point curious people toward. They get a complete experience from that game and get a full and fleshed out  grasp of the feel of AoS universe and become fans of Age of Sigmar for life. (probably)

There’s the crux of it all.

Nowadays that’s Fantasy 101 to go from extremely obscure to worldwide reknown in a month like the Witcher franchise which even when it had books, an rpg and it’s first videogame trying to talk about it was like teaching people an alien language.(I still remember some repulsed by it because the game had some sci-fi DNA menus in it that fantasy fans didn’t bother to understand and got vocal about).

I’m rooting for Frontier but I’m hoping next year we’ll hear some announcements further down the line for an actual AoS RPG. If that can ever get nailed down then there will be something for new fans to really bite into.

56 minutes ago, derpherp said:

Hopefully its not all empty vistas and some of the mechanics of the setting are shown.

Going by that image I expect the classic 3 minute filler of the character running cross country as multiple vistas are shown to both give a vibe of the setting and it’s cheap to animate when it’s just beautiful still backgrounds being slideshowed.

Not that that’s a bad thing if they do it wisely.

A huge draw of Age of Sigmar is it’s crazy fantasy scenery so it’s good that they flair up people’s imaginations with what’s possible in the infinite:

 

 

A good note is she’ll have that Deepkin companion so we could get some underwater sights too.

 

I am happy they’re taking their time with the AoS animations. Hamilcar is widely praised as being one of the best animations on there and did a great job showing off the light-hearted side of the Realms with him and how he was able to barge his way into the Orruk camp and ask them directions to their boss plus the setting details of Ghur looking like even it’s rocky outcrops have teeth and the Lord-Celestant’s voice reverberating like thunder from his reforgings making him more Storm than human.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Baron Klatz

[Skreech Verminking]

On 7/24/2022 at 4:00 AM, Baron Klatz said:

2000’s saying “Warhammer is just a World of Warcraft knock-off, I’m not wasting time scratching past the surface stuff.”

 

Isn’t it the other way around where world of warcraft is in fact the knock-off version of the actual warhammer fantasy

On 7/23/2022 at 9:16 PM, Querl Dox said:

have your actual gods on the table, where do you go from here? How are humans or goblins supposed to matter when gods literally walk the earth?

 

personally this is where I have to say the following:

dear gw where is my grimmblade.

the blade that killed nagash and it’s wielder.

shouldn’t that be back in the game?

let’s make the existence of a god a bit more terrifying.

[Baron Klatz]

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Isn’t it the other way around where world of warcraft is in fact the knock-off version of the actual warhammer fantasy

100% but back in the 2000’s Warhammer was so obscure and WoW popular that it was just popular consensus that Warhammer was the knock-off. Back then people on Reddit and forums would just agree “yeah looks like it” and move on because no one cared.(like seriously, googling “Warhammer empire” back then got you more Tau empire results than anything)

Massively different beast compared to today’s internet thanks to TWW actually making people know the fantasy side exists.

 

That’s why Age of Sigmar deserves it’s own break-out games like Dawn of War & Space Marine.

[Skreech Verminking]

14 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

That’s why Age of Sigmar deserves it’s own break-out games like Dawn of War & Space Marine.

Currently I have the feeling that aos, might be missing a lot of background.

especially when it comes down to factions.

Now I’m not saying that it is bad in any way, it’s just missing a good portion.

Especially when it comes down to total war warhammer, where special characters are the thing that currently makes every faction so interesting.

Unless we are talking about the stormy boyS who probably have more named characters then every faction from the old world combined, aos is lacking pretty much of that.

And that isn’t the only place.

We are definitely far away from a perfect aos background lore, but it seems to be establishing, especially with the help of writers going away from talking about the heroic deeds of stormcast and roleplaying games establishing themself in the aos system

 

[Baron Klatz]

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Especially when it comes down to total war warhammer, where special characters are the thing that currently makes every faction so interesting.

I mean, there’s three things there.

1. That kinda game is super far off if it even happens, easily between 2026 to 2030++ and farther if they don’t decide to do a Lord of the Rings game next.

That gives plenty of time to address that as AoS is constantly pumping out new named characters between the main game, side games and now Black Library special models.
 

2. Total War usually ends up making the names famous if anything. Look at friggin’ Ghorst and the CA OC opera ghost with only one goal that exist! (And that’s not counting all the new stuff made from scratch for game 3)
 

And then there’s the characters like DoW’s & Space Marine’s Gabriel Angelos & Titus who got their start with the games and became canon characters later too so the games can add to AoS like Stormground gave us Freya Skyhelm and the Lady of Ashes.

3. It could just be a Saga title and factions condensed into the 4 Grand Alliances so they wouldn’t need a lot of characters.

They could just take a strip of each realm that stretches from edge to innerlands and put them together (like a cosmic pizza) with the rift system and have each realm represented by two big heroes per Alliance that have opposite playstyles.

Like say the Ghur strip could have Yndraste and Krondys represent Order but Yndraste is super aggressive and wants conquest while Krondys is more reserved and spreads diplomacy as both try and unite the Grand Alliance by different means so gather up the Stormcasts, Seraphon, Fyreslayers, DoK, Sylvaneth and free cities “sub-factions” to form a diverse United army in that realm to win it over. The other 3 Grand Alliances do similar things there with their two opposing heroes each.

That way there’s lots of content to cover everything by combining it all together(for a Saga title).

But I’d also be happy to get a AoS version of Dawn of War, Stronghold or Age of Empires too(especially the last one. That new Royal Houses for AoE3 would be great as Realmgates for the eight realms to give upgrades and mercenaries from each as Kharadron trade ships go by.)

 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Baron Klatz

[Skreech Verminking]

55 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

3. It could just be a Saga title and factions condensed into the 4 Grand Alliances so they wouldn’t need a lot of characters.

Any skaven player hearing this would probably rather burn the game down.

then ever to consider playing it.

it is true that the stormcast have a good amount of special characters.

personally, I have a feeling that we might not see a aos total war game any time soon.

although I wouldn’t say never just not in the near future.

I really think that aos needs more time to establish itself.

especially when ti comes down to a identity.

some factions in the game feel more like:” let’s have a laugh when fighting against them”, thing going for them, where their only role is to die-die, while looking like clowns doing so, or never having been a real thread.

which is kinda sad.

I personally hope this will be adjusted at some point.