AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

[Honk]

34 minutes ago, Craze said:

the Vargskyr has any place in a semi-competitive list?

Two vargskyr cost more than a unit of bloodknights… (2x115 vs 195),
16hp vs 15 but 5+/5++ vs 3+\6++, which also favors the knights

8 claws + 2 maws  vs 16 lances, I dare say on the charge knights win and without the vargskyr are only slightly better (no math applied)

knights are faster and with Riders very mobile, but have a bigger footprint.

Soooo I think fluff list or maybe even better outflanking distraction carnifex 🤔

deepstriking in a Legion of Night list it should be able to crush objective babysitters

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, Craze said:

I was wondering if you guys think that the Vargskyr has any place in a semi-competitive list? From the first look it is fast, packs a decent punch for its points and thanks to its two quality attack profiles benefits nicely from e.g. "Call to then Hunt".

Any thoughts?

A big problem is that the Vargskyr does very little damage. He's fast and has some pretty good durability, but his output is low to the point that Black Knights do comparable damage:

Save	Vargskyr	Black Knights
2+	1.74	0.97
3+	2.52	1.94
4+	3.3	2.92
5+	4.07	3.89
6+	4.67	4.86
-	4.67	5.83

And this is without the mortal wounds on the charge.

[Wordy9th]

I've tried it a couple of times. It's a fluff piece or a fun piece, if you like a really cool model stalking the board doing little to no damage. 

The book has so many options so go ahead with it if you have the 115 points sitting around, but if you're putting together a serious list then you won't :). 

I mean you can take that or 20 bodies of zombies, or a corpse cart, or some bats, or... you get the idea.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

It might be interesting to look at the Cursed City models once more, since that game is getting re-released soon:

Radukar the Wolf is pretty good. He has the same 18" +1 attacks bubble that big Radukar has, but he is only 150 points and also a wizard (rerolling casts in Vyrkos). He could conceivably cast Amethystine Pinions on himself and be decently fast. His buff is notably good because it affects multiple units and non-SUMMONABLE, unlike the standard Vampire Lord. Since he is a Vampire Lord, he can also make SUMMONABLE units fight right after him with Deadly Coordination. I think this guy might be a bit underplayed in Vyrkos lists, he has some fun stuff to offer.

Torgilius is the cheapest wizards with the DEATHMAGES keyword at 115 points. He trades the Necromancer's bodyguard ability for a 4+ ward. He also generates extra command points in your hero phase if he is near Radukar. His warscroll spell is a big step down from the Necromancer, however, just giving you another way to get -1 to hit on an enemy unit. I think this guy is overall a step down from the generic Necromancer (who is already not that great). Being a named character without access to Arcane Tome really hurts him. He might be worth it in a full Cursed City Vyrkos list for the command points, though.

We all know that Gorslav is good. He is dirt cheap (75 points) and can resurrect Zombies and Wolves on demand. Not really much more to say about him. He can go in any list of any subfaction without support and probably still make his points back.

Of the four Cursed City heroes, Halgrim is the worst. He is not worth it for his stats at 80 points, and his command ability doesn't do anything useful. It allows up to 3 DEATHRATTLE units to auto-run 4". Even if you have a large DEATHRATTLE presence in your list, that just doesn't seem like something you would want to do very often.

There are also three troop choices in Cursed City.

The Vargskyr has already been discussed a bit. His 3d6" charge and high wounds with a 5+ ward are cool, but his damage is kind of lacking. I genuinely think that you are probably better off running Black Knights, who also have a huge threat range (12" move and auto-charge 6"), deal mortals on the charge and have better keywords (SUMMONABLE and DEATHRATTLE). They are also 15 points cheaper than the Vargskyr's 115.

Kosargi Nightguard are an interesting choice that you don't see a lot. They come in at 95 points for 2. They are decently tanky at 4 wounds, 5+ save, 5+ ward, but their damage output is usually low. However, if paired with Radukar the Wolf, they get +1 attack on their warscroll, plus another potential +1 from Radukar's command ability, which would double their damage output. Radukar benefits from bringing them along, too, since he has the ability to pass off wounds to the Nightguard on a 2+. I think a unit of 4 could be pretty decent if paired with the Wolf, but they probably don't do enough on their own.

Lastly, there are the Vyrkos Bloodborn. Their niche is probably as a fast harrassment unit. They are on very small 25mm bases, so you could reinforce them to 6 without having to worry about coherency. Their damage output seems fine, but they only have rend -1 and no mortals, so they won't break through high saves. They look frail at first glance, but actually have pretty decent "meat point" at 3 wounds per model with a 5+ ward. These guys probably won't replace Blood Knights in your list, which are just better warscrolls with more synergy within the army, but I think they are playable as a unit of solo operators.125 points for 3.

 

[Sutek]

10 hours ago, Honk said:

Two vargskyr cost more than a unit of bloodknights… (2x115 vs 195),
16hp vs 15 but 5+/5++ vs 3+\6++, which also favors the knights

8 claws + 2 maws  vs 16 lances, I dare say on the charge knights win and without the vargskyr are only slightly better (no math applied)

knights are faster and with Riders very mobile, but have a bigger footprint.

Soooo I think fluff list or maybe even better outflanking distraction carnifex 🤔

deepstriking in a Legion of Night list it should be able to crush objective babysitters

I've used him a couple of times, the best thing is the 3D6 charge but I've found he isn't that killy when he gets there.  I used him alongside Radukar the Beast so he got the extra attack when they both charged.

Unfortunately you can't deepstrike him in LoN because he has the Vyrkos keyword so can't gain the LoN one.  Would have been a good use for him, I used to use Morghast Harbingers as ambushers in the Legions of Nagash days. 

 

[vlad3theimpaler]

On 2/23/2022 at 5:44 AM, Wordy9th said:

I came third place overall at the London Open tournament last weekend with a Legion of Night list, thought I’d give you guys a run down!

The top five placements were:

1)     Seraphon

2)     Serpahon

3)     Soulblight (me)

4)     Seraphon!

5)     Legion of the first Prince

Here’s the list:

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Legion of Night
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs:
Mannfred von Carstein, Mortarch of Night (380)*
- Lore of the Deathmages: Decrepify
Necromancer (125)**
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
Vampire Lord (140)**
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)**
- General
- Deathlance
- Command Trait: Swift Form
- Artefact: Shard of Night
- Mount Trait: Foetid Miasma
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
30 x Deathrattle Skeletons (255)***
- Reinforced x 2
20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)**
20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)*
20 x Grave Guard (280)***
- Wight Blades & Crypt Shields
- Reinforced x 1
1 x Corpse Cart with Unholy Lodestone (80)*
3 x Fell Bats (75)*
*Battle Regiment
**Warlord
***Hunters of the Heartlands
Artefact

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 141
Drops: 7

Overall it was an amazing experience, with 1 loss to the eventual winner of the tournament which was really close (27-29 I believe). 1 draw and 3 wins – including the final game against an all dragon and bastion list! Here’s a very brief run down of the games, if people want an extended review or questions about the matchups feel free to ask.

 

Round 1 vs Karadron Overlords on veins of Ghur. 53-6 VP win.

A very brutal start as I kept most of my forces off the board (this will become a theme vs every army except OBR). He took first turn and failed his battle tactic to kill my block of 30 skeletons. I then double turned him, destroyed his ironclad with the Vlozd, skeletons and Mannfred and took every objective from there. Grave guard charged the Magmadroth and one shot it. Hooray.

Round 2 vs Seraphon Thunder Lizards, Apex Predators. 27-29 loss.

A very close game with an exceptionally good opponent. There’s so much to say about the game but highlights were him summoning 20 saurus guard for free with the engine of the gods, me managing to kill everything except the slaan and 3 big lizards but eventually running out of steam and losing to objectives. A very tough matchup with very tough terrain to work around. Excellent game which felt very winnable.

Round 3 vs Lumineth. Power struggle, 10-10 draw.

 A stressful game that only got to the bottom of turn 2 before we ran out of time and ended up (with some stressful discussion) in a draw. Loremaster took the middle objective and landed the mortal wound rock endless spell in the middle of my skelton blob. Mannfred and GG killed the big mountain dude and a bunch of stuff, the Vlozd took out some hammer units on the right until we had to end it. Probably would have went on for another 2 hours before resolution but end of day fatigue was kicking in for both of us.

Round 4 vs OBR. Tectonic interference. 20-0 differential victory.

A matchup I have played many times and played out as well as it could have for me. Only kept the GG off the board who eventually came on to kill Arkhan who had miscast his first spell. Overran all the objectives, he failed his battletactic to kill the Vlozd and I ran away with the game.

Round 5 vs Stormcast Dragons. 34-27 victory on Feral Foray.

The game of the weekend for me, and one of the reasons I brought LoN to the tournament. He gave me first turn, seeing only my chaff on the board. In response I move up an inch and ended the turn, won priority and gave him the double turn to his horror. He then moved in with everything, toasted 20 zombies, 15 skeletons and another 17 zombies, my corpse cart and 3 bats. I took the turn, bats came back, vlozd and mannfred came on and killed bastion, burned the objectives on the back. Got the double, charged in with everything and killed a bunch of dragons. The 30 skeletons held on the entire game against 4 dragons, proving pivotal to the victory of the game.

 

Overall it was amazing for a first tournament and I didn’t expect to come third overall against some very good players and lists. I Believe LoN was instrumental in helping against some of the lists that the other SBGL players really struggled with, and it has a lot of play in the future. PS: I love my skellies!

I know I'm late to the party here, but I just wanted to mention how funny it is to see roughly a page worth of "skeletons are garbage" followed by "here's my list that took 3rd place with a block of 30 skeletons."  🤣

[Wordy9th]

I couldn't have my skelly boys being slighted so, therefore the only option was to take them to a tournament!

[HollowHills]

Hey vampire friends.

Ive just picked up a battleforce to play a more casual army (as opposed to my Idoneth).

I'm thinking of converting the vengorian lord kit (as I think they look kinda wacky and I'm not keen on the rules). 

I'm pretty confident it will be easy to grab some legs for Luaka Vai and make her into a nice lil vamp lord.

Anyone made the monster body into a vlozd? I've seen some pics but would like some advice on parts used etc.

Thanks!

[Liquidsteel]

Just be wary that the Vengorian Lord is on a bigger scale than regular Vampire Lords.

[HollowHills]

38 minutes ago, Liquidsteel said:

Just be wary that the Vengorian Lord is on a bigger scale than regular Vampire Lords.

True. I could use sigvald bits and magnets to make her float beside the dragon and then I have a vlozd. Just need a sigvald kit and a head option to add to the beast then.

Maybe something to show her with a Lance so I don't have to use the crappy sword haha

[Honk]

5 hours ago, HollowHills said:

I could use sigvald bits

There is a Sigvald goes Vampire customization video on YouTube…

some paldrons and other stuff, but looked awesome 

[Honk]

found it…

 

 

[Zaerion]

Hi , im back on Aos 3.0 since a while and i would like to know how is the command point generation on the gravelords , we just get 1 per turn like in the old days of LON? or there is something i am missing because with all the new rules and all new command habilities i think we should have a better way of generating CP no?

[Craze]

It depends a little bit on the subfaction you use. Vyrkos for example has the command trait "Pack Alpha" which lets you use a comand ability for free per turn, which equals - if you use a command each turn - 2 command points per battle round, which is one of the better command point engines in the aspect of raw CP you get, but is of course limited to your general.

[Honk]

19 hours ago, Zaerion said:

should have a better way of generating CP

rule 4.1.1 on pg.7 (9 pdf)

player who takes priority gets 1CP, player who gets second turn gets 2 CP.

rule 6.0 on pg.7 (9 pdf)
if your general is on the battlefield at the start of the herophase (!ambush/deepstrike!) you will get an additional CP.

rule 7.1 on pg. 8 (10 pdf)
Heroic action: Heroic Leadership

one hero on a 4+ that model get a CP to use. Add +2 to roll if your general is slain.

As stated above pack alpha lets the model issue a command without spending a CP

so there are many ways to generate CPs and of course many ways to spend them.

especially with the „only one command per phase issue/receive“ it can be a bit tricky when what to order. Some things can stack (Mannfreds Aura and tactical insight are triggered during the hero phase)

[Zaerion]

Hi, Next week will be playing 3.0 for the first time and i will be playing with this:

- Army Faction: Soulblight Gravelords
     - Army Type: Kastelai Dynasty
     - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
     - Triumph: Inspired
LEADERS
Mannfred Von Carstein (380)
     - Spells: Fading Vigour, Invigorating Aura
Prince Vhordrai (455)
     - Spells: Amethystine Pinions, Invigorating Aura
Vengorian Lord (280)*
     - General
     - Command Traits: Rousing Commander
     - Artefacts of Power: Fragment of the Keep
     - Spells: Flaming Weapon, Invigorating Aura
BATTLELINE
Blood Knights (195)*
Blood Knights (195)*
Dire Wolves (135)*
Blood Knights (195)*
OTHER
Vargheists (155)*
CORE BATTALIONS
 -  *Battle Regiment
TOTAL POINTS: 1990/2000


Advices ideas?

Is it always good to keep the bloods off the table and then try to charge from behind or its very situational?

How would you play this list?

 

My idea is that the vengorian lord with the combination of the two auras (-1 rend and -1 wound) goes with 1 or 2 units of bloods in order to see if he can cover them with the auras and make them tanky, then on the other side Vhordrai acting as a chaff and being anoying in general and Manfred doing its Manfred things( if you have specific advices on Mandred playstyle would be nice)

Any advices on how to play this or your vision from more experienced players would be nice thanks!

[Honk]

1 hour ago, Zaerion said:

How would you play this list?

The list looks interesting, but general advice 🤔

Mannfred can be really annoying hopping around and his CA boosts knights . Remember to use their mobility and charge every round.

venga boy is also a nice buff piece. Not much damage, but suddenly knights are crazy tanky.

vordhrai to charge into the lines (mannis aura could also supercharge him) and wolves to secure a flank or snatch an objective.

but how to use all the pieces to their max potential against the variety of opponents and battleplans 🤷🏿‍♀️
 

shooting always stinks, giants are stupid too… 😅

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

The rules for the new Deadwalker warband are out:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/XWozE21bHDP7KUmM.pdf

The main guy Deintalos:

• 6" move, 6 wounds, 4+ save, 5+ ward, 10 bravery
• Basic vampire (sadly, not VAMPIRE LORD keyword) wizard, but gets +1 to cast when near the warband champion.
• Has a little shooting attack and Vampire Lord level attack profile.
• Weirdly, a new The Hunger ability: He heals up to the number of wounds he inflicts, not just 1.
• Resurrects one guy from his warband per battleshock phase if they are close to him.
• Warscroll spell: CV 3 run and charge, sadly for his warband only.

The warband:

• 4" move, 2 wound, - save, 5+ ward near their boss (only the electric zombies), 10 bravery.
• The champion gets 3 wounds and him and his pet zombie get a different attack profile.
• DEADWALKER, but not SUMMONABLE, so no Endless Legions, Danse Macabre or Crimson Feast for them.
• Mortals on 6s to hit, with better attack profiles than normal Zombies.
• Not subfaction locked.

Damage calculations:

Save	Deintalos	The Exiled Dead
2+	2.08	2.69
3+	2.78	3.37
4+	3.47	4.06
5+	4.17	4.74
6+	4.17	5.43
-	4.17	6.11

Deintalos and the Exiled Dead are 220 points

---

In my opinion, you can probably field this guy if you really want to, but him and his warband are noticably held back by missing out on the good Gravelords keywords like DEATHMAGE, VAMPIRE LORD and SUMMONABLE.

[Leshoyadut]

19 wounds total for 220 points, plus the zombies can give Look Out, Sir! to the hero, everything has a 5+ ward, and Deintalos brings the zombies back every battleshock, which makes them reasonably tanky altogether. I also like that Deintalos gets wounds back just from wounds dealt and not from killing models. Overall, I agree and would generally rate it as "niche, but potentially useful".

[chosen_of_khaine]

So after many years of service, my Mannfred (and Arkhan/Neferata) finally snapped at the tail and can no longer support itself, even with my (admittedly mediocre) pinning job. Does anyone have any experience adding a flying stand or extra ruins to the base to support the weight with something that is the appropriate height? All the flying stands I have from are too short. Any suggestions would be appreciated!

[chosen_of_khaine]

Double post, sorry

Edited April 22, 2022 by chosen_of_khaine
Double Post

[Nullius]

21 hours ago, chosen_of_khaine said:

So after many years of service, my Mannfred (and Arkhan/Neferata) finally snapped at the tail and can no longer support itself, even with my (admittedly mediocre) pinning job. Does anyone have any experience adding a flying stand or extra ruins to the base to support the weight with something that is the appropriate height? All the flying stands I have from are too short. Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Use brass rod instead of paper lip for pinning and drill deep holes on both sides of the join. That worked for my Neferata.

[DarkTrooperZero]

Thoughts on 1000 point Kastelai list, its more a theme than super competitive

Prince Vhordrai, Pinions 455

Blood Knights 195

Blood Knights 195

Dire Wolves 135

/ 980

 

Maybe better off with a VLOZD who can take artifacts and 20 skeletons at 995?  but I do like the wolf models.

 

[Honk]

On 5/10/2022 at 8:01 AM, DarkTrooperZero said:

Maybe better off with

Yes, maybe… but the wolves have trveness on their side and are much faster than skellis. 
vhordrai still has the chalice iirc, but no CA and no artifact 🤔

I would try out both, thinking the lord is a bit stronger 

[Psyfledread]

On 3/30/2022 at 10:29 AM, HollowHills said:

Hey vampire friends.

Ive just picked up a battleforce to play a more casual army (as opposed to my Idoneth).

I'm thinking of converting the vengorian lord kit (as I think they look kinda wacky and I'm not keen on the rules). 

I'm pretty confident it will be easy to grab some legs for Luaka Vai and make her into a nice lil vamp lord.

Anyone made the monster body into a vlozd? I've seen some pics but would like some advice on parts used etc.

Thanks!

Yeah, I used the head from the Mount of  Mannfred. Sculpted a simple neck, glued on the head and greenstuffed a bunch of fur. 

Not my idea, I also find the vampire-centaur a bit, iffy.