Scourgerunner Chariot, the most OP unit in the game?

[Maddpainting]

For those that dont know, they are 50pts when in units of 3, the have a few shots, here is the warscroll. They can be battleline as well (important part)
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls//aos_scourgerunnerchariots_eng.pdf

This is the bases of the list (some extra points for w/e)

LEADERS
Black Ark Fleetmaster (60)
- General
UNITS
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)

You could get some cheap 70pt units to screen as well

12 units of 3.

Unmod hits of 6 stops the attack and deal D3 MW's for the Harpoon

Vs 4+ and 5+ without any Re-rolls

12 High beastmasters chariots

24 Harpoon: 2+/3+/-1/D3 = 20 hits (4 6's to hit) 16 hits turns into 10.67 wounds, -1rend.
vs 4+sv: 5 wounds, a total of 9D3 wounds 18 wounds on average
vs 5+sv: 8.89 unsave wounds (round to 9), total of 13D3, for 26 wounds

48 Crossbow: 4+/4+/-/1D = 24 hits, 12 wounds
vs 4+sv: 6 wounds
vs 5+sv: 8 wounds

Total: vs 4+ = 24 wounds
Total: vs 5+ = 34 wounds

24 chariots Scourgerunner Chariots

48 Harpoon: 3+/3+/-1/D3 = 32 hits (5 6's to hit) 27 hits,  18 wounds
vs 4+sv: 12 wounds, total 18D3 wounds for 36 wounds
vs 5+sv: 15 wounds, total 21D3 wounds for 42 wounds

96 Crossbow: 5+/4+/-/1D = 32 hits, 16 wounds
vs 4+sv: 8 wounds
vs 5+sv: 10.6 wounds

Total: vs 4+ = 44
Total: vs 5+ = 52


Grand Total damage turn 1 shooting

vs 4+ save:  68 wounds
vs 5+ save:  86 wounds

Note this is without vs Death saves, 3+ save, etc.. but you can reliably remove 2-3 units from the game, you can reliably kill 2 KoS turn 1 without trying, should be able to kill 3 (42 wounds in total for 3) just for some perspective.

What do you think?

Edited November 21, 2019 by Maddpainting

[Myrdin]

They are strong, this has been agreed by most in the Anvilguard thread before. And they can fit into any CoS list regardless of what your main theme is due to the low price.

But no, they are not OP per say. They are strong for what they do, and they do it great. But its a one trick pony thats very easy to counter if your whole strategy rests upon chariots and nothing but chariots.

That list you put up would be a lot of fun to watch unfold on the table, and against unsuspecting opponent it might do really well. But against certain lists and armies, It will get shredded in turn.

But who cares about that, go full ham with the Chariots ! I would love to see a battle report done with this or similar list (at least one more character would be required I suppose, and maybe a wizard or two). Even more so a video battle report. Oh boy  

[Maddpainting]

What city would best fit this? I dont actually have the cities book, just looking through it this week with a friend.

[hughwyeth]

That would also cost an insane amount of money lol. 

But i might look at 2x3 units.

[Myrdin]

Personally I think the best pick would be

1# TEMPEST’S EYE > bonus move and armor on the first turn helps you spread out your army nicely.  In addition TE allows its units to Run and Shoot which for this type of list would be very nice indeed. For chariots that stay in the back, surrounding the general get the Hawk-eyed: trait: +1 to Wound for shooting attacks. Their spells are not bad, but nothing you necessarily need.

2# GREYWATER FASTNESS > The City traits dont do much for you, but the general has access to two nice one: Drillmaster: Re-Roll 1 to hit for shooting, and Ghoul Mere Ranger: Run and Shoot, both are 12" within the general. Mostly dmg spells in here.

3# Living City>  Exact Opposite of the GF above. You wont get much from your general, but on the other hand the City confers some very nice abilities. First is innate 1W regeneration for your chariots each turn.  Second allows you to ambush 50% of your army and have them arrive up till turn 4. The City also allows you to make an additional move after the units that came on the table via ambush have shot. In this case that means all the chariots will get in, shoot and then get a free move to roll away from danger. The city has access to some nice support spells.

In a chariot centric army like this, these 3 cities would be the most viable ones, as they directly influence your units and provide either a movement or dmg buff to them.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Myrdin

[Maddpainting]

The rr'1's is all units within the general?

And arrive later might be good b.c of deployment restrictions.

[dekay]

1 hour ago, Myrdin said:

In a chariot centric army like this, these 3 cities would be the most viable ones, as they directly influence your units and provide either a movement or dmg buff to them.

I add Anvilgard as a contender - Due to possibility of squeezing up to 9 chariots into their battalion they can make a chariot heavy force very low on drops. Plus added +1 to wound against monsters - situational, but good to have. And you get access to 'remove saves' spell, great when so much of your damage dealing potential lies in no rend crossbows.

You pay for that in the form of some forced chaff units of corsairs, though, so you won't build *pure* chariot list in Anvilgard. Two battalions of min everything/max chariots cost you 1740 points with 6*3 chariot units, 6*10 corsairs and 2 fleetmasters. You get enough points for some magic support or whatever else you might like.

[feraxil]

I like this model a lot. 

I like it even more in Tempests Eye, as on the first turn I can castle back and move up into range easier if going 2nd or if going 1st I can run up the board and clog up movement lanes with the massive footprint the unit of 3 has.  A base is what, 5 inches long? There's 15 inches of blockage. Add in the 1 inch spacing and the 3 inch restriction and you have a 23 inch block for a turn with 18 wounds and 4+ save for 150 points. Plus you probably killed something with them. 

My original list was 

Lord Ordinator w/hawkeye
Hurricanum with battlemage
4 rocket batteries
5x3 scourgerunners
3x10 darkshards.

Its a lot of d3 dmg shots with good rend and a bit of d3 mortal wounds sprinkled in. 

I'm trying to figure out lists with better staying power for objectives, but bringing 2 or 3 units of these chariots is still primo.

Edited November 21, 2019 by feraxil
would -> wound

[Paul Buckler]

It will be dreadful, the army will traffic jam up, 75% be out of range, and then get locked in combat.  Hero missions auto fail so easily.

I use 6, I would never go more than 9, they are that unweildy.

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Paul Buckler

[feraxil]

3 minutes ago, Paul Buckler said:

It will be dreadful, the army will traffic jam up, 75% be out of range, and then get locked in combat.  Hero missions auto fail so easily.

I use 6, I would never go more than 9, they are that unweildy.

 

I've had no range issues in the 20 or so games I've played with the list.

Your hero mission critique is pretty spot on. I also want to adjust for better objective holders, like PG, and I'd like to try out an Annointed on Firebird or Frostbird.

[schwabbele]

OP for your wallet. 

[feraxil]

3 minutes ago, schwabbele said:

OP for your wallet. 

Meh. I have such a large Dark Elf collection already (regularly played 10k and 20k games back in 8th), I only had to buy 3 more to hit 15.

[Forrix]

My poor wallet.... That said, I consider 3 an auto-include in the lists I've been building. If anyone has that many chariots please run it lol. I'm curious to hear how it does.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Forrix

[JackStreicher]

36*30€ = 1080€

I am also rather certain that that many would fit into no deployment zone.

they‘d require 331,2cm in width or in two lines with 165,6cm x 25cm in depth.  So if your deployment zone has no terrain you‘ll be fine - which means you will never be fine.
 

they‘re good but really far from op.

Edited November 21, 2019 by JackStreicher

[Zappgrot]

11 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

For those that dont know, they are 50pts when in units of 3, the have a few shots, here is the warscroll. They can be battleline as well (important part)
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls//aos_scourgerunnerchariots_eng.pdf

This is the bases of the list (some extra points for w/e)

LEADERS
Black Ark Fleetmaster (60)
- General
UNITS
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)

You could get some cheap 70pt units to screen as well

12 units of 3.

Unmod hits of 6 stops the attack and deal D3 MW's for the Harpoon

Vs 4+ and 5+ without any Re-rolls

12 High beastmasters chariots

24 Harpoon: 2+/3+/-1/D3 = 20 hits (4 6's to hit) 16 hits turns into 10.67 wounds, -1rend.
vs 4+sv: 5 wounds, a total of 9D3 wounds 18 wounds on average
vs 5+sv: 8.89 unsave wounds (round to 9), total of 13D3, for 26 wounds

48 Crossbow: 4+/4+/-/1D = 24 hits, 12 wounds
vs 4+sv: 6 wounds
vs 5+sv: 8 wounds

Total: vs 4+ = 24 wounds
Total: vs 5+ = 34 wounds

24 chariots Scourgerunner Chariots

48 Harpoon: 3+/3+/-1/D3 = 32 hits (5 6's to hit) 27 hits,  18 wounds
vs 4+sv: 12 wounds, total 18D3 wounds for 36 wounds
vs 5+sv: 15 wounds, total 21D3 wounds for 42 wounds

96 Crossbow: 5+/4+/-/1D = 32 hits, 16 wounds
vs 4+sv: 8 wounds
vs 5+sv: 10.6 wounds

Total: vs 4+ = 44
Total: vs 5+ = 52


Grand Total damage turn 1 shooting

vs 4+ save:  68 wounds
vs 5+ save:  86 wounds

Note this is without vs Death saves, 3+ save, etc.. but you can reliably remove 2-3 units from the game, you can reliably kill 2 KoS turn 1 without trying, should be able to kill 3 (42 wounds in total for 3) just for some perspective.

What do you think?

What do i think? What do I think. I am thinking .Why the hell would you take them in uniets of 3. That's what i am thinking 

[Rogue Sun]

1 hour ago, Zappgrot said:

What do i think? What do I think. I am thinking .Why the hell would you take them in uniets of 3. That's what i am thinking 

Agreed. In this HIGHLY theoretical list wouldn't it be better to just take them as single units? They'd suddenly all get +1 to hit from being the High Beastmaster and should be slightly easier to move them about the table. 

Really though, this looks like too many. 6 feels like the sweet spot if you want to go Scourge Runner heavy.

[swarmofseals]

1 hour ago, Rogue Sun said:

Agreed. In this HIGHLY theoretical list wouldn't it be better to just take them as single units? They'd suddenly all get +1 to hit from being the High Beastmaster and should be slightly easier to move them about the table. 

Really though, this looks like too many. 6 feels like the sweet spot if you want to go Scourge Runner heavy.

They only get a champion if you take a unit of 3. This change was added in the errata.

13 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

What do you think?

They are good but they aren't even close to OP and certainly not the most OP unit in the game. The kind of ranged damage output that you are quoting can be topped by quite a few other warscrolls in the Cities book alone. 

[Myrdin]

8 hours ago, Zappgrot said:

What do i think? What do I think. I am thinking .Why the hell would you take them in uniets of 3. That's what i am thinking 

 

7 hours ago, Rogue Sun said:

Agreed. In this HIGHLY theoretical list wouldn't it be better to just take them as single units? They'd suddenly all get +1 to hit from being the High Beastmaster and should be slightly easier to move them about the table. 

Really though, this looks like too many. 6 feels like the sweet spot if you want to go Scourge Runner heavy.

 

You guys should catch up on the lastest FAQ. This is no longer a thing. Single model  chariot units can no longer be the High Beastmaster.

 

In regards to the deployment issue, if you ran with Living City that would be not an issue anymore, but then again you need to tailor the list around the city, and the general confers no bonuses.

I think dropping few of the chariots and getting a High Wizard on Hurricanum in the same price range would be the best way to run this. You are not loosing on dmg since hurricanum is 3D3 MW, though its range is shorter, plus you get a caster on your side of the table. 

[Zappgrot]

6 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

They only get a champion if you take a unit of 3. This change was added in the errata.

They are good but they aren't even close to OP and certainly not the most OP unit in the game. The kind of ranged damage output that you are quoting can be topped by quite a few other warscrolls in the Cities book alone. 

Ah thank god.  Cause that was  broken 

[Maddpainting]

2 hours ago, Myrdin said:

 

 

You guys should catch up on the lastest FAQ. This is no longer a thing. Single model  chariot units can no longer be the High Beastmaster.

 

In regards to the deployment issue, if you ran with Living City that would be not an issue anymore, but then again you need to tailor the list around the city, and the general confers no bonuses.

I think dropping few of the chariots and getting a High Wizard on Hurricanum in the same price range would be the best way to run this. You are not loosing on dmg since hurricanum is 3D3 MW, though its range is shorter, plus you get a caster on your side of the table. 

Its not just the 3D3 tho, you are losing 6 chariots, is it really worth losing the wounds and the other shooting damage for 1 spell? I think the +1 is what i like IDK if i can use it tho, can that work onto the Chariots? It looks like the way the keywords are it might not be able to.

The real reason why i would take this honestly is to have better deployment and not spend as much money lol.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Maddpainting

[Myrdin]

13 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

Its not just the 3D3 tho, you are losing 6 chariots, is it really worth losing the wounds and the other shooting damage for 1 spell? I think the +1 is what i like IDK if i can use it tho, can that work onto the Chariots? It looks like the way the keywords are it might not be able to.

The real reason why i would take this honestly is to have better deployment and not spend as much money lol.

Of course it is. I mean.... Its a Hurricanum! One of the best, most universally useful support unit in the entire book. You loose some chariots, but you get so much more mileage with the remaining ones. suddenly hitting on +1.     

Its not only Storm of Shemtek for 3D3 MW, its a +1 to hit for EVERYTHING that is COS, no specific keyword required. In addition you get a pick between two MW spells in addition to the one from the City. And as multiple people already said > you want at least one more wizard to go along the army. And that guys gets a +1 to cast from the Hurricanum. 

And dont forget about the Endless spells which are always empowered when playing CoS. Its way to much utility to forego a wizard, especially in a mono themed one trick pony army like this. 

But then again, I mean all of this is pointless talk unless you have chosen which City to play. As mentioned above, if you run purely chariots, there is a high chance you wont be able to deploy them all simply due to the sheer amount of space they take. And unless you run Living city, that means you cant basically play this army if you cant deploy it. In which case loosing 6 of them in exchange for Hurricanum is one of the better trade offs that have to be made.

 

[Maddpainting]

I would for sure do Tempest Eye, and after looking at that model and the Artefact for TE (and the buffs it gives) i am really liking the High Wizard on Hurricanum.

PS: What relic is good? Its one of the few things i don't have access to (I didn't buy the book yet, i will next week when i go to my club).

Edited November 22, 2019 by Maddpainting

[Walrustaco]

MY WIFE WAS MURDERED BY AN AELF IN A SCOURGERUNNER CHARIOT! IT'S THE ONE CASE I CAN'T SOLVE! Don't fight with family; it can all go away so quickly.

[Myrdin]

33 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

I would for sure do Tempest Eye, and after looking at that model and the Artefact for TE (and the buffs it gives) i am really liking the High Wizard on Hurricanum.

PS: What relic is good? Its one of the few things i don't have access to (I didn't buy the book yet, i will next week when i go to my club).

Honestly you might want to take a look at the Aqshy and Ghyran Realm relics, depending on which City you go with. Those can be found freely on Wiki. Fast and easy to google the list so you can see what would work for you. TE is Aqshy, so I would take a look at those, since for this army the 3 TE relics aint as great.  I mean sure the 4+ roll for a free CP is not bad, but then again you wont have much to burn them on to begin with.

 

[Maddpainting]

Yeah i have all the relics/realm rules. I didn't know if their TE relics were good at all b.c i dont have the book yet.

There are a lot of relics that i like in the Reams, so i'll most likely do that. Thermalrider is a good example to be good with chariots (Fly +4" movement) can jump over chariots and move faster. Aqshy is for sure the one i would go with.