Warhammer - The Old World

[CommissarRotke]

8 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

I can't imagine they would only provide rules for 2 chapters upon launch.

Apologies, I meant model ranges specifically! I'll edit my post to clarify. Rules-wise there will probably be a big drop like Legends did.

[novakai]

23 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

I would keep an eye on how GW handles the Horus Heresy 2nd edition launch for a guide to how they will handle the mass update of many factions.

I can't imagine they would only provide rules for 2 chapters upon launch. Surely all armies would get a PDF to tie them over. I mean if I can't play my preferred chapter then I'm likely to hold off buying anything. But thats just me personally.

For models I imagine that many existing models can be retrofitted to function in old word armies. For example a skeleton, zombie, bloodletter, treelord, chaos warrior etc haven't really changed. So I don't see a reason whey they wouldn't have Day 1 rules to some extent. Even if their faction wasn't fully fleshed out yet. 

 

 

 

They probably will have all 18 chapter at launch according to the leaks but also codex for each legion is plan afterwards

the thing to keep in mind with Horus heresy is that every legion can use every generic legion unit in the game, if you release a new model in the game, all 18 space Marine legion gains access to it. It is much easier to refresh Heresy because essentially you can update all 18 armies in one big release. Of course there is legion specific units that are staying in FW and special armies like Adeptis Custodes and Mechanicum that exist but overall it not the same as how GW releases their other games

[Snorri Nelriksson]

15 minutes ago, novakai said:

They probably will have all 18 chapter at launch according to the leaks but also codex for each legion is plan afterwards

18 codex of marines would be a nightmare....i hope they'll stick more with the former grouping.

[Beliman]

The "leaked" phase 1 and phase 3 rules are split between 3 books: 

1. Generic stuff book (with a lot of missing units...)
2. Loyalist Book (without a lot Heroes and the Exemplary Battles units)
3. Traitor Books (without a lot Heroes and the Exemplary Battles units)

No words for other armies but they are mentioned in some Rites of War.

[Twisted Firaun]

24 minutes ago, Beliman said:

The "leaked" phase 1 and phase 3 rules are split between 3 books: 

1. Generic stuff book (with a lot of missing units...)
2. Loyalist Book (without a lot Heroes and the Exemplary Battles units)
3. Traitor Books (without a lot Heroes and the Exemplary Battles units)

No words for other armies but they are mentioned in some Rites of War.

So if we use this model, we should have exactly four book around the start of TOW, similar to the old Grand Alliances we started with. Hopefully we then get some campaign books which expand the unit rosters as well.

[Jator]

Yeah, I don't think HH would provide a good comparison, is poster boy vs. poster boy. Less  units and more profit. ToW can't compete!

For which armies could they release rules as they already have the miniatures? Off the top of my head: Skaven, Lizardmen, Ogres, Vampire Counts(?) and the three chaos armies (sorry, not dwarfs included). Not bad, that's half the armies we had, right?

And then many of them are halfway there (Greenskin only need vanilla orcs and goblins, for example) but not sure how interested GW would be in new sculpts when the main target already owns the old ones.

[Noserenda]

Yeah ive felt TOW has been either over promising, or being vague enough for fans to take that as over promising almost from stage one, i suspect because even GW has not nailed down the actual scope of the release yet.

Ideally i think a relatively limited set of new minis, maybe an extended MTO window of old ones and a big index style set of releases giving everyone rules would be ideal. Probably having a new Cities of Sigmar book at the same time bringing back some of the squatted options coming back in OW would be nice too! 

[RuneBrush]

On 4/22/2022 at 9:37 PM, Loyal Son of Khemri said:

So if we use this model, we should have exactly four book around the start of TOW, similar to the old Grand Alliances we started with. Hopefully we then get some campaign books which expand the unit rosters as well.

Although things may well have changed over the past 3 years, the original intention was that The Old World was being designed as a historical style game.  You'd get a small number of "black books" covering a specific period, with rules for the protagonists in the skirmishes and battles in that timeframe.  Although one of the selling points is that "oh look you can use your old armies", that wasn't the core focus of The Old World and I always felt it was added by WarCom rather than the designers.  I could see some kind of Legends style book be released a bit like we had the original Grand Alliance books, but I can't see us getting Codex/Warhammer Army/Battletome books - at least not until well after the game has released.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I expect we'll see releases throughout Age of Sigmar that will be 'dual purpose', so to say, and it'll be a slightly different model than Horus Heresy.

We can see this where they've pre-seeded certain factions already, with Blood Knights, etc. for Soulblight Gravelords, up to that we'd see a large Slaves to Darkness release. I would expect further over 3E AoS that many kits released are updates of old ones, priming the pump there.

I would not be surprised to see some degree of grouping in army books, even if not quite on 'Order', etc. lines. Maybe a book with all human factions, ones with all Elves, Dwarves, etc. and so on.

[Garrac]

I wouldn't be surprised if TOW gets to be managed by Forge World, as LOTR nowadays

[Still-young]

39 minutes ago, Garrac said:

I wouldn't be surprised if TOW gets to be managed by Forge World, as LOTR nowadays

I’m pretty sure it is, yeah. I think there were job postings for Specialist Games that mentioned the old world. 

[Baron Klatz]

Yeah, Forge World put that out back in 2020 looking for art designers that listed their games with that game at the end. And another posting last year for model sculpters.

Also, though he’s a sourgrape and sometimes half-right, that Hastings guy said this after the AoS fest:

”for those of you interested in The Old World project, a I can tell you that Bret and Tomb King plastic kits are going back into production, ready to be available when the project launches.”

“Only these two ranges as far as I understand, because many people mourned their loss from the new setting, and GW can make a quick $ off the nostalgia hype and have ZERO dev costs to put into getting them into production again.

As far as I understand a LARGE part of the Old World stuff will be resin.”

 “No sorry, I mean the WHOLE of the Old World stuff, including the new stuff, very large amount of resin kits.”

To which all I hear(besides the nostalgia mining) is:

Outdated Models

Updated Prices.

very tiny window of AoS backports due to truescale > small rank posing.

And Forge World with lots of Resin to tie that bow off on the package.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Baron Klatz

[Still-young]

The newer Tomb Kings kits, bring them back for sure. Bret and the older TK need new models if they’re coming back really. 
 

I expected resin. It took HH like, 10 years to get a big plastic treatment and that’s 95% marines. 

[Jator]

2 hours ago, Still-young said:

 

I expected resin. It took HH like, 10 years to get a big plastic treatment and that’s 95% marines. 

Yeah, I don't want to be a party popper, but I don't see the Old World staying in the market that long with the model business Hastings was describing. I just can't, as much as I want to believe.

[Still-young]

Just now, Jator said:

Yeah, I don't want to be a party popper, but I don't see the Old World staying in the market that long with the model business Hastings was describing. I just can't, as much as I want to believe.

I’d be surprised too. I’m just not surprised that they’re not investing big from the start with lots of plastic, even though it has a much bigger chance of success that way. 

[silverstu]

I don't think it will be full of resin kits and I've known Hastings a long time. If Titanicus can have plastic TOW will have as well. Plastic is GW future and I think TOW is designed to take the same space as Heresy. I think he's being overly pessimistic . Plus there's so much crossover between TOW and AOS. 

[Still-young]

4 minutes ago, silverstu said:

I don't think it will be full of resin kits and I've known Hastings a long time. If Titanicus can have plastic TOW will have as well. Plastic is GW future and I think TOW is designed to take the same space as Heresy. I think he's being overly pessimistic . Plus there's so much crossover between TOW and AOS. 

Hopefully!

[Jator]

4 minutes ago, silverstu said:

I don't think it will be full of resin kits and I've known Hastings a long time. If Titanicus can have plastic TOW will have as well. Plastic is GW future and I think TOW is designed to take the same space as Heresy. I think he's being overly pessimistic . Plus there's so much crossover between TOW and AOS. 

He's not the jolliest rumor monger, but isn't he generally right? IIRC he was one of the few who knew about the end of warhammer fantasy and the new game (four-page rulebook, round bases...)

[Baron Klatz]

Yeah. That wasn’t the pessimist part, he was bashing on all the AoS reveals(which is a good thing in my book. If he doesn’t like them that means AoS is going in the right direction. Yes I very much don’t like him 😛 ) and saying those things as “good news to cheer everyone up”.

So there’s little salt on these and likely accurate. 
 

We’ll see what happens but it’s about what I expect. There’s already tons of rank-and-flank competitors out there that straight up took advantage of the lose of Brets and TK. They’re not gonna want to waste money trying to capitalize on generic knights and mummies everyone else is doing when the cheap nostalgia option will suffice.

[Twisted Firaun]

8 hours ago, Still-young said:

The newer Tomb Kings kits, bring them back for sure. Bret and the older TK need new models if they’re coming back really. 
 

I expected resin. It took HH like, 10 years to get a big plastic treatment and that’s 95% marines. 

I sincerely hope that the 8th edition plastic Tomb Kings kits make a comeback. I love those kits (they got me into the fantasy side of the hobby), and am so DONE with trying to find them for a reasonable price on eBay.

[silverstu]

11 hours ago, Jator said:

He's not the jolliest rumor monger, but isn't he generally right? IIRC he was one of the few who knew about the end of warhammer fantasy and the new game (four-page rulebook, round bases...)

He was but he fell out with GW over the end of fantasy and the whole fine cast debacle. 
he may have reconnected with his sources but I’m not sure he is as connected as he was before. He’s not salty over everything btw- he loves the blood bowl teams . But he doesn’t know as much as he did and he used to know a lot!

[Twisted Firaun]

I probably sound like a broken record, but what (if anything) do you hope GW imports from Total War into TOW besides Kislev and Cathay? 

Besides the Hierotitan and Nehekharan warriors (khopeshes rule), I hope that the Vampire Coast gets plastic models. They're a fun army and barring one character (Aranessa Saltspite) they're all old/dead so they could easily be ported over. 

[Segersgia]

1 hour ago, Loyal Son of Khemri said:

I probably sound like a broken record, but what (if anything) do you hope GW imports from Total War into TOW besides Kislev and Cathay? 

Besides the Hierotitan and Nehekharan warriors (khopeshes rule), I hope that the Vampire Coast gets plastic models. They're a fun army and barring one character (Aranessa Saltspite) they're all old/dead so they could easily be ported over. 

I don't really know what GW could add outside of what you mentioned from CA, but I second on the Vampire Coast atleast. 

I also want specifically Cylostra. We don't know when she turned ethereal, but there is no reason it couldn't be before the Great War against Chaos. Finubar did his travels and would make sense for Bretonnia to send an envoy during that time.

This is what makes me excited for the Old World. New characters that didn't live during the Warhammer Fantasy era. It's a complete clean slate (with some interesting exceptions). We could get a new overtyrant, Greenskin warlords, or Bretonnian dukes that only existed in that period. We could go far away and have, for example, a beastman character living in Cathay, or prominent Dark Elf character raiding the Hung up in Naggaroth. 

[Twisted Firaun]

12 minutes ago, Segersgia said:

I don't really know what GW could add outside of what you mentioned from CA, but I second on the Vampire Coast atleast. 

I also want specifically Cylostra. We don't know when she turned ethereal, but there is no reason it couldn't be before the Great War against Chaos. Finubar did his travels and would make sense for Bretonnia to send an envoy during that time.

This is what makes me excited for the Old World. New characters that didn't live during the Warhammer Fantasy era. It's a complete clean slate (with some interesting exceptions). We could get a new overtyrant, Greenskin warlords, or Bretonnian dukes that only existed in that period. We could go far away and have, for example, a beastman character living in Cathay, or prominent Dark Elf character raiding the Hung up in Naggaroth. 

One thing I'm hoping for is that Tamurkhan and his brothers make an appearance/return, and bring about a range of turkic-inspired warriors of chaos models. I'd also like to see Araby get some new models, but I can wait.

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, Loyal Son of Khemri said:

I hope that the Vampire Coast gets plastic models. They're a fun army and barring one character (Aranessa Saltspite) they're all old/dead so they could easily be ported over. 

Ships with cannons as arms? That will be my perdition!!