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General Hobby Chatter!

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On 9/28/2019 at 2:51 PM, Kirjava13 said:

Depression has hit really bad lately. Haven't done any painting, even though I made such good progress with my Arch-Warlock at the start of the month. If anyone has had a similar experience, I'd be curious to know how you powered out of it.

Genuinely wanted to at least try Cities of Sigmar, but after reviewing the battletome realized the motivation that I lost over the great culling is still gone and I don't know if it will ever be back. Losing the variety subfactions still had was the last kill of the appeal for me. This is just personal apparently, as I see most people here still enjoy it at best, or can overlook the problems at worst. I'm depressed with the direction the hobby has gone between the aesthetics of new factions, magic and MW power creep, lore, but most importantly depressed with how cheapened everything feels when GW's rinse and repeat sell cycle quickly treats old factions and rules as disposable.  I feel like collecting what I am actually interested in in time to see support without major rule changes is just a race I am personally never going to win as a slow builder in their constant sales cycle.  People will say things like "of course x models were gonna go", but as a new player I never saw it that way.

Up until now I've just spoken against changes I don't like, but at this point I don't know what I want out of the hobby anymore. Might end up cashing in a few thousand dollars worth of models. We'll see...

Edited by Zanzou
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34 minutes ago, Zanzou said:

Genuinely wanted to at least try Cities of Sigmar, but after reviewing the battletome realized the motivation that I lost over the great culling is still gone and I don't know if it will ever be back. Losing the variety subfactions still had was the last kill of the appeal for me. This is just personal apparently, as I see most people here still enjoy it at best, or can overlook the problems at worst. I'm depressed with the direction the hobby has gone between the aesthetics of new factions, magic and MW power creep, lore, but most importantly depressed with how cheapened everything feels when GW's rinse and repeat sell cycle quickly treats old factions and rules as disposable.  I feel like collecting what I am actually interested in in time to see support without major rule changes is just a race I am personally never going to win as a slow builder in their constant sales cycle.  People will say things like "of course x models were gonna go", but as a new player I never saw it that way.

Up until now I've just spoken against changes I don't like, but at this point I don't know what I want out of the hobby anymore. Might end up cashing in a few thousand dollars worth of models. We'll see...


Have you considered retrogaming with em? I know its a tired response to the culling at this point, but it's a fairly robust option. And not just retrogaming as far back as WHFB. You could also use the rules from AoS 1.0 when everything was in compendiums and at a relatively even power level. I'd love to play a few games with the older factions exclusively while using the tighter 2.0 core rules, battleplans, realm stuff, and even endless spells.

I've also heard great things about 9th age and SAGA (Age of Magic specifically), if you're feeling burnt out on GW systems in general.

The most similar thing I've felt like this recently is the axing of the greenskinz and basic duardin. I've got a bunch of em kicking around, since I'm just really fond of the models. I'm keeping my dwarfs on their squares for retrogaming, and maybe running them as counts as freeguild for AoS friendlies. My greenskinz are getting adapted to be both aos bonesplitterz and snakebitez for 40k. It lets me keep the generic ork aesthetic/flavour I like so much while also being able to dabble in multiple systems. 

Both sets of models are also eventually getting shunted into my frostgrave games at points, and for sure into SAGA whenever I get around to playing that again.

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@Zanzou Supposedly, next year we will have Warhammer Legends treatment for all squatted stuff including points! I think this can bring a lot of interest back from people that have old collections and simply can't connect with the current AoS direction. I for one cannot wait (my big high elves, wood elves and chaos mortals fantasy armies could definitely use it :P).   

 

1 hour ago, soak314 said:

The most similar thing I've felt like this recently is the axing of the greenskinz and basic duardin. I've got a bunch of em kicking around, since I'm just really fond of the models. I'm keeping my dwarfs on their squares for retrogaming, and maybe running them as counts as freeguild for AoS friendlies. My greenskinz are getting adapted to be both aos bonesplitterz and snakebitez for 40k. It lets me keep the generic ork aesthetic/flavour I like so much while also being able to dabble in multiple systems. 
 

I totally agree with your post, and this bit in particular. Using miniatures across multiple systems is super useful and absolutely refreshing to keep the hobby exciting. Since we are (I guess?) in a miniature gaming renaissance, there are (too) many choices and fun stuff to discover. Plus, I don't feel the need to buy as many miniatures (alleviates the pile of unpainted shame) and perceive higher value in the minis I own (more usage, instead of staying on a shelf).

Branching out really helped me to keep interested and motivated in wargames. Staying always in a same game/setting/rules makes me very weary and hobby-depressed, so I'm grateful for all the options.

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13 hours ago, michu said:

Watching Hang Out and Paint right now - did you know that during early AoS (with "funny" rules) there was someone who hollowed out the Konrad von Carstein  miniature and put a small speaker inside it to use his "One Bat Short of a Belfry" rule? You could talk to him, push a button on his base and he would talk back! Free re-rolls!!

That is actually pretty awesome! Must have been a tiny speaker. 

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8 hours ago, VBS said:

@Zanzou Supposedly, next year we will have Warhammer Legends treatment for all squatted stuff including points! I think this can bring a lot of interest back from people that have old collections and simply can't connect with the current AoS direction. I for one cannot wait (my big high elves, wood elves and chaos mortals fantasy armies could definitely use it :P).   

 

I totally agree with your post, and this bit in particular. Using miniatures across multiple systems is super useful and absolutely refreshing to keep the hobby exciting. Since we are (I guess?) in a miniature gaming renaissance, there are (too) many choices and fun stuff to discover. Plus, I don't feel the need to buy as many miniatures (alleviates the pile of unpainted shame) and perceive higher value in the minis I own (more usage, instead of staying on a shelf).

Branching out really helped me to keep interested and motivated in wargames. Staying always in a same game/setting/rules makes me very weary and hobby-depressed, so I'm grateful for all the options.

I feel you about the amount of miniatures. For my plans, I need a few more boxes, but really, I have over 150 unpainted models, and I could just not make the list fully optimised.

I am creating my next d&d campaign in a setting where I can use a few of my models though, it will help to really set a scene.

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11 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

I feel you about the amount of miniatures. For my plans, I need a few more boxes, but really, I have over 150 unpainted models, and I could just not make the list fully optimised.

I am creating my next d&d campaign in a setting where I can use a few of my models though, it will help to really set a scene.

I'm mainly a D&D player, and it has the definite advantage that you need a diverse range of modes rather than lots of repetition of battle line troops. I love just being able to get a box of goblins, and basically have all the goblins I'm ever likely to need! I've ended up with a much more varied collection than if I'd just stuck with an army, and over the decades I've ended up gradually building several full armies from that foundation of miscellaneous models.

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Nice find @michu and very interesting reading. Nice to hear from the designers of the game! Also interesting that it was a pit-fighting game that evolved over time (which fits with GW releasing a lot of pit-fighting focused short stories). Kind of glad that it did evolve because its far stronger for having more than just Chaos models within it and letting other factions in really expands the playerbase of the game. 

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I've gotten my mittens on some more of the old WHFB scenery, and they are indeed beautiful kits. However, I've gotten quite a few of the old Chapels (bought as fortified manors - hence the watchtowers I've also got), and I thought it would be boring to just have duplicate manors or chapels - so I've bashed them together to make a fortress of some sort. Besides, I really like being able to interact with terrain, not just move around it. I've used more pet shop cork bark for the cliffs and rocks, and used some walls to make the walkway and the walls for the tower. I think it works pretty well, although it obviously needs quite a bit of detailing:

fort1.jpg

I've used a piece of the Garden of Morr as an outhang for one of the buildings - I obviously need to something with it. Also some supports for the other outhangs too.

fort2.jpg

I'll lay some wood planks on the walkway and the tower floor: 

fort3.jpg

I've also managed to grab a completely mint (still foil on the box) Dreadstone Blight, one of my favourite pieces, and promptly got it assembled (still needs the top floor). I doubt I'll do any converting to this one - I really like it as is - although it will get a nice base:

dreadstone.jpg

Edited by GuitaRasmus
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@GuitaRasmus

wow man beautiful terrain! Looks fun to play on too...

I’m working on a nagash warband for a narrative mini campaign that I’ll play in a month. After a while converting I’ve started painting and it’s pretty rewarding to see it come together!

581C85A9-E524-4149-A36D-0C298E8466D5.jpeg

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On 10/8/2019 at 4:08 PM, Zanzou said:

Genuinely wanted to at least try Cities of Sigmar, but after reviewing the battletome realized the motivation that I lost over the great culling is still gone and I don't know if it will ever be back.

Same, I wanted some Dispossessed and Ironweld, because classic dorfs are awesome, but I lost the motivation after seeing they lack terrain/spells. I was fine with the great cull, I expected a lot of the old Dwarf models to disappear because they didn't fit the modern aesthetic, and I have never been fond of elves. The remaining dwarfs are good enough for me. It's enough to make a pretty good army, the models look great, and with some kitbashing you can make a convincing Duardin Steam Tank and Helblasters with Duardin crew to fill any holes in the roster.

But, what scares me is that the CoS have no new models in the book. No terrain, no spells, no hero, not even a re-release for the Excelsior Warpriest or any of the other Warhammer Quest heroes that mixed old armies with the modern art style. Other than the time put into writing the book itself, there is no investment in the army that shows us "don't worry, we will keep supporting them in future versions of the game." I don't want to invest the time and money to make a Dispossessed army just to see them disappear years down the line when AoS 3.0 happens. So I will stick to my Grots until I see something that shows Cities of Sigmar are staying around long term.

Edited by dirkdragonslayer
Formatting, clarifying, and grammar fixes.

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44 minutes ago, dirkdragonslayer said:

Same, I wanted some Dispossessed and Ironweld, because classic dorfs are awesome, but I lost the motivation after seeing they lack terrain/spells. I was fine with the great cull, I expected a lot of the old Dwarf models to disappear because they didn't fit the modern aesthetic, and I have never been fond of elves. The remaining dwarfs are good enough for me. It's enough to make a pretty good army, the models look great, and with some kitbashing you can make a convincing Duardin Steam Tank and Helblasters with Duardin crew to fill any holes in the roster.

But, what scares me is that the CoS have no new models in the book. No terrain, no spells, no hero, not even a re-release for the Excelsior Warpriest or any of the other Warhammer Quest heroes that mixed old armies with the modern art style. Other than the time put into writing the book itself, there is no investment in the army that shows us "don't worry, we will keep supporting them in future versions of the game." I don't want to invest the time and money to make a Dispossessed army just to see them disappear years down the line when AoS 3.0 happens. So I will stick to my Grots until I see something that shows Cities of Sigmar are staying around long term.

Yeah, this is a worry for me as well. GW seems to care mostly about its molds, and they did not invest in this.

I don't think I'll stay with Warhammer if I lose my army. Since there are no other order humans, I can't even proxy them. I also dislike the "turn everything up to 17" cartoonish vibe most armies have.

Edited by zilberfrid

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Don't forget GW don't put anything in the book that isn't in a model on sale very soon after the book is placed on sale. This is mostly to try and stop 3rd parties stealing the market. In the past GW had models in books for YEARS that never came out. Tyrainds had several special character variations for their models and several units (such as shrieks - warriors with wings) that never got official models. 

 

Cities and Orruks are odd in that they didn't get any new plastic stock from overseas, but I think that considering they came hot after Sylvaneth it might have been tangled up with that overseas ordering. Ergo something went messy around then and caused a delay which might have caused a pause on GW ordering that material. So they wound up with a minimal order as opposed to a big one. 

They are an abnormality, but I'm sure we can expect GW to resolve it for them and we'll see new stuff come out. i'd be surprised if GW was going to rock the boat further and remove 2.0 armies in short order from the game in the future. It would be heavily counter productive for them to do so. Asides both factions are very well established in lore and the games overall structure. It would be quite a big shock for them to remove either the only human army or the only orruk army from the game. Though I fully expect to see revamped models for both likely changing the asthetic designs. 

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Pet peeve of mine - players who count damage down from a model, instead of up, like the rulebook says it should be done.  This isn't DnD.  You are not subtracting from a Hit Point (Wounds) total.  You allocate wounds to a model, until the Wounds allocated equals the model's wounds characteristic.

Normally it doesn't matter, but recently we have seen some rules crop up where it does (ie - the new Ironjawz, etc).  I'd just like it if we all would get on the same page, lol

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17 minutes ago, mikethefish said:

Pet peeve of mine - players who count damage down from a model, instead of up, like the rulebook says it should be done.  This isn't DnD.  You are not subtracting from a Hit Point (Wounds) total.  You allocate wounds to a model, until the Wounds allocated equals the model's wounds characteristic.

Normally it doesn't matter, but recently we have seen some rules crop up where it does (ie - the new Ironjawz, etc).  I'd just like it if we all would get on the same page, lol

I prefer counting down, as I know that one means it only has one wound left,  otherwise I have to keep track of how many wounds each of my opponents models has. 

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On 10/21/2019 at 1:13 PM, Overread said:

Don't forget GW don't put anything in the book that isn't in a model on sale very soon after the book is placed on sale. This is mostly to try and stop 3rd parties stealing the market. In the past GW had models in books for YEARS that never came out. Tyrainds had several special character variations for their models and several units (such as shrieks - warriors with wings) that never got official models. 

Isn't there a FEC model that can only be achieved by kitbashing?

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37 minutes ago, chord said:

I prefer counting down, as I know that one means it only has one wound left,  otherwise I have to keep track of how many wounds each of my opponents models has. 

Likewise, counting down tells me how much more damage I need to do at a glance, counting up means I have to memorize the units Wound characteristic (or constantly check the app) and then subtract the number I see from that.

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4 minutes ago, relic456 said:

Likewise, counting down tells me how much more damage I need to do at a glance, counting up means I have to memorize the units Wound characteristic (or constantly check the app) and then subtract the number I see from that.

I get that, but that's not how it works.  And again, there are things in the game now where recording it this way can be a problem

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1 minute ago, mikethefish said:

I get that, but that's not how it works.  And again, there are things in the game now where recording it this way can be a problem

Are those things happening more or less often than how I often I'm thinking about how much damage to do to a monster? I'm guessing not but it's early and haven't finished my first coffee so I could be forgetting something obvious beyond damage tables haha

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6 minutes ago, relic456 said:

Are those things happening more or less often than how I often I'm thinking about how much damage to do to a monster? I'm guessing not but it's early and haven't finished my first coffee so I could be forgetting something obvious beyond damage tables haha

Well Ironjawz makes it an issue, thanks to both Megaboss' special ability.  Lots of new Orruk players these days, so it will become a bigger deal than it was. 

I suppose there are plenty of armies where it's NOT an issue, but I think the hobby as a whole would be better if people were consistently following the rules as written.  Less potential confusion.

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Just now, mikethefish said:

Well Ironjawz makes it an issue, thanks to both Megaboss' special ability.  Lots of new Orruk players these days, so it will become a bigger deal than it was. 

I suppose there are plenty of armies where it's NOT an issue, but I think the hobby as a whole would be better if people were consistently following the rules as written.  Less potential confusion.

It's funny because I usually land on being a RAW purist myself, so me flipping the script in this instance is interesting. Good call on the Orruk stuff, maybe if they become prevalent enough you'll see a shift in thinking? Though I think we both agree as long as you and your opponent are on the same page then it shouldn't matter too much.

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1 minute ago, relic456 said:

It's funny because I usually land on being a RAW purist myself, so me flipping the script in this instance is interesting. Good call on the Orruk stuff, maybe if they become prevalent enough you'll see a shift in thinking? Though I think we both agree as long as you and your opponent are on the same page then it shouldn't matter too much.

Agreed.  But this sort of thing is EXACTLY the type of thing that will trip people up in weird unexpected ways.  Slaanesh has abilities/bonusest that trigger on whether their target has taken any wounds, yes?  Or am I wrong on this?

Honestly is it really that difficult to remember a Wounds trait?  They tend to be pretty consistent across the army.  And people reference War Scrolls all the time.  Will they really do so more often if Wounds are counted up from zero?

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18 minutes ago, mikethefish said:

Slaanesh has abilities/bonusest that trigger on whether their target has taken any wounds, yes?  Or am I wrong on this?

Whether their heroes or their target have taken any wounds (except the last one), which actually I think is easier in a "count down" world compared to "count up".  You know you don't count the last pip as a Depravity point, no additional math or resources required.
 

18 minutes ago, mikethefish said:

Honestly is it really that difficult to remember a Wounds trait?  They tend to be pretty consistent across the army.  And people reference War Scrolls all the time.  Will they really do so more often if Wounds are counted up from zero?

It's just an extra step, it feels inefficient.  When you count down, you know just by looking at the dice how much damage you have to do.  When you count up, you have to look at the number on the dice and then subtract it from the model's Wound characteristic, which if you haven't memorized means requiring an additional step of checking the warscroll on the app or asking your opponent.  I agree for 2 and 3 wound units it's not that big of a deal, but when you're fighting multiple monsters and heroes it can be annoying, especially in a tournament where you're facing different armies back to back.  Does that Bloodstoker have 5 wounds or 6? Does the Ghoul King have 14 or 12? Is Arkhan 13 wounds or 14?  Maybe I'm overstating the issue (it is relatively minor) but it just seems so much easier to read the dice and know what you want to know, but that's just me!

Edited by relic456
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12 minutes ago, relic456 said:

Whether their heroes or their target have taken any wounds (except the last one), which actually I think is easier in a "count down" world compared to "count up".  You know you don't count the last pip as a Depravity point, no additional math or resources required.

Well I don't mean to seem as though I am picking on you, but there is really no difference between counting down or up if a Slaanesh player is just looking to see if stuff is damaged.  Either way, if there is a token or counter of some kind in play - it's damaged.

To keep with the Ironjawz issue.  Say a Megaboss' takes a single wound, and then Strength from Victory triggers.  If you're counting down damage, the player would most likely pull his Wound token off the model, showing that it has 7 Wounds remaining.  To a Slaanesh player, that looks like an unwounded model. 

I mean the Strength from Victory could be recorded a different way, but I have seen IJ players do it the way I just described (admittedly they were prior to this book release, and not playing against Slaanesh)

I am probably also overstating the issue, but I'm suppose I don't have a huge problem remembering Wound stats, so it seems like not a huge deal.  I'd personally prefer just to play it RAW, and hopefully avoid any rules issues

Edited by mikethefish
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4 minutes ago, mikethefish said:

Well I don't mean to seem as though I am picking on you, but there is really no difference between counting down or up if a Slaanesh player is just looking to see if stuff is damaged.  Either way, if there is a token or counter of some kind in play - it's damaged.

Not at all! Just a good ol' healthy discussion. And I probably wasn't clear, Slaanesh counts each wound that they do or that their hero receives as a Depravity point except for the wound that kills the model.  So if they kill a 5 wound model in one hit, they gain 4 Depravity points if that makes sense.

 

5 minutes ago, mikethefish said:

I mean the Strength from Victory could be recorded a different way, but I have seen IJ players do it the way I just described (admittedly they were prior to this book release, and not playing against Slaanesh)

I haven't played against much IJ myself either so maybe after getting a few games in I'll come around to your line of thinking.

 

5 minutes ago, mikethefish said:

I am probably also overstating the issue, but I'm suppose I don't have a huge problem remembering Wound stats, so it seems like not a huge deal.  I'd personally prefer just to play it RAW, and hopefully avoid any rules issues

Yeah I'm generally with you on RAW, I guess in this case it's just agree to disagree!

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