What woudl it take to make a Slaves to Darkness Battletome successful

[flemingmma]

9 hours ago, novakai said:

I said this before but It be cool if they came out with units of Varanguard on foot

or plastic chosen

[Kurrilino]

Resculpt the warriors and chosen or give us varanguard on foot. Either way, we will be happy

[Dead Scribe]

So new models and thats it would make everyone happy with the current state of their rules?

[Slayerofmen]

It feels like thats a their bare minimum sort of trade off

 

All the scrolls are garbage feom the big guy down and desperately need a ground up review

[Kurrilino]

2 hours ago, Dead Scribe said:

So new models and thats it would make everyone happy with the current state of their rules?

No, we need massive pricedrops or more damage output. StD hit like a wet towel.

They should bring 30 Warriors down to 360 to match 30 plaquebearers as an example.

[whispersofblood]

4 hours ago, Kurrilino said:

No, we need massive pricedrops or more damage output. StD hit like a wet towel.

They should bring 30 Warriors down to 360 to match 30 plaquebearers as an example.

That would be unlikely, 30 warriors and 30 Plaguebearers are completely different units. a Chaos Warrior is for all intents and purposes as Liberator. And GW are not very likely to envision them any differently.

[Kurrilino]

8 hours ago, whispersofblood said:

That would be unlikely, 30 warriors and 30 Plaguebearers are completely different units. a Chaos Warrior is for all intents and purposes as Liberator. And GW are not very likely to envision them any differently.

Well then give them the bonus of Liberators.

[whispersofblood]

1 minute ago, Kurrilino said:

Well then give them the bonus of Liberators.

What bonus? Liberators don't have a max size bonus other than more grand weapons. 

Chaos warriors get great weapons, and at 20+ get the benefit liberators have from their shields, and they are cheaper than liberators.

I think you have misconceptualised what a Chaos Warrior is, and it is leading you to make faulty conclusions. You could argue they don't serve a purpose as a combat block since they are hard to apply. But that is an issue with being elite infantry, they are probably priced well, with decent rules, they just aren't needed in a meta 2k build.

StD heroes provide pretty meaningless buffs I would start there, and with the lack of a compelling battle traits. I would then look at knights, and both chariots for their lack of applicable dmg. 

They need a way to do dmg outside of combat, or the only option mechanically is to just make them an oppressively tough combat army. Which to be frank is pretty boring. StD actually don't have that many warscrolls there are only 8 outside of heroes.

• 2 chariots with low dmg
• 2 elite infantry with medium dmg,
• 1 cav unit low dmg
• 1 cav unit skirmisher low dmg
• 1 shrine low dmg
• 1 large infantry unit low dmg

Compared to a modern battletomb it is significantly lack in its ability to kill models. 

[Dead Scribe]

Its lack of offense coupled with its high points costs are why it has been garbage tier for the past few years.

[Kurrilino]

2 hours ago, whispersofblood said:

What bonus? Liberators don't have a max size bonus other than more grand weapons. 

Chaos warriors get great weapons, and at 20+ get the benefit liberators have from their shields, and they are cheaper than liberators.

I think you have misconceptualised what a Chaos Warrior is, and it is leading you to make faulty conclusions. You could argue they don't serve a purpose as a combat block since they are hard to apply. But that is an issue with being elite infantry, they are probably priced well, with decent rules, they just aren't needed in a meta 2k build.

 

I can assure you this is not the case.

I consider abilities or indirect abilities as bonus as well.  Where is our +1 to Hit?  Where is our "beaming units around from ability"?

Liberators in a Stormcast army have so many options to interact with abilities and items that we simply can't compare them to Warriors.

Actually they removed everything remotely usefull  from us like the Plaquetouched or Fatesworn Battalion.

We have absolutely nothing left that creates any kind of synergy.

 

This is why i want them either cheaper or make them like Liberators.

I would gladly trade my 30 points horde bonus for making them a staple unit like they were intended to be

Edited July 11, 2019 by Kurrilino

[Mogwai Man]

A complete overhaul from top to bottom of traits, artifacts, battalions, etc, etc. Even a name change is needed.

Edited July 12, 2019 by Mogwai Man

[novakai]

1 hour ago, Mogwai Man said:

A complete overhaul from top to bottom of traits, artifacts, battalions, etc, etc. Even a name change is needed.

Yep got to change that STD acronym 

[Cambot1231]

We still have Saul the faithless to teleport warriors etc around 

[AaronWilson]

Slaves to darkness warscrolls would probably need a total re-write to be a successful battletome.

[Sete]

Varanguard on Foot, Darkoath would be the bare minimum.

Throw in some beasty beasts, some sort of possessed barbarians, and new spawns and they are ready to roll.

[Kurrilino]

23 hours ago, Cambot1231 said:

We still have Saul the faithless to teleport warriors etc around 

Yes, while the other armies have that for free through abilities. They don't even have to waste a spell for that.

[Mutton]

I think for a Slave to Darkness book to be successful it needs to avoid the trap the BoC book fell into: Unmarked/Undivided armies shouldn't be patently worse than Marked armies.

[Kurrilino]

21 minutes ago, Mutton said:

I think for a Slave to Darkness book to be successful it needs to avoid the trap the BoC book fell into: Unmarked/Undivided armies shouldn't be patently worse than Marked armies.

Question is how to do that without overpower them as soon as they gte marks.

I guess this is the real reason why we haven't seen a book yet.

[Charleston]

Maybe GW should expand Chaos at this point? Currently we have exactly 4 Flavors of Chaos, whoch are War and Bloodshed, Excess, Pus, and Nerds and Trearchery.

We really lack the good old nameless Chaos. GW really forgott the Spice of unnamed Daemons and the awesomeness of Black Armours. Currently the Realm of Chaos are exactly 4 Deities and their offsprings. We really do not have the general Chaos Daemons in any kind in the tabletop.

Althrough I highly doubt it, GW could use the Darkoath book for this. Make Marks of Chaos a sidenote, a generic rule all Darkoath/Slaves to Darkness Units can get to be allied into other armies. But then focus within the book on unique dark powers. Give us a Spell Lore that taints the whole battlefield in black magic! Give us a General Trait which makes our General so possesed by nameless daemonic beeings that he literarely explodes when he´s dead! Give us artifacts that are so full of unholy and dark power, that even skaven would call us mad for using thoose!

[Kurrilino]

I would like not to lose marks. This is a thing going on for ages.

Warriors ascend after pleasing a certain god and chasing for those blessings is what the warriors are.

[MitGas]

More dmg output and new minis. With Warriors and Chosen being useful for 5 armies absolutely nothing speaks against buffing them and make them look as great as they should - lots of people would buy them. I'm just waiting for it.

[Kurrilino]

C'mon guys...

 

Our Slaves need much more than resculpt and a paintjob.

 

Throw everything out you have. We have to keep this thread on top of the list until everyone else on this forum is so annoyed they they call GW "Please for ****** sake..... give those guys their Slaves, i can't take it anymore.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Kurrilino

[Kurrilino]

One easy idea would be to bump up Warriors and Chosen.

Abilities:

Ability/Physical Domination:We remove the 2 handed weapon from warriors and give them a standard -1 rend on hand weapon/shield.  Min 5 Max unit size 30 and 70/380

Ability/Physical Domination: Chosen will move up from -1 to -2 rend, being absolute elite troops. Min 5 Max 30 unit size and 90/500.

Dark Rune Armor. Warriors, Chosen, Chariots and Knights have a 3+ Save

Rune Shields: 5+ ward against magic wounds, reroll saves of 1

This will put us back into the elite base unit bracket where we belong.

Most of the stuff but Marauders should start with -1 rend anyways.

Dark Shrouded Weapons: Knights lances do 3 mortal wounds after successful charge. Roll a dice when unit is targeted by a spell and is equipped with Dark Shroud Shields. On a 4+ the spell has no effect and is dispelled.

Shredded bodies: A Chariot does 1d6 mortal wounds at the end of the charge phase  to all unit within 3 "  after successful charge. If the charged unit was a hero or monster it is knocked to the ground and can't attack this combat phase.

 

Our marks have direct functions as long as StD army. If allied somewhere else the marks lose their function.

Nurgle -1 to hit, Tzeench +1 to ward saves, Khorne +1 to attack, Slaneesh can run/retreat and charge same turn and no bravery test.

All units can be marked.

Eye of the gods table counts fur units as well as heroes. It triggers every time an enemy unit is wiped out and rewards the killer unit.

 

Artefact:

1 The All Seeing Eye: Every time the Eye of the gods table is triggered, the player can chose to modify the result by up to 2 up or down.

2 Talisman of Black Magic: 4+ save against wounds and mortal wounds.

3 Beguiling Gem: -1 to hit to the wearer.

4 Favor of the Gods: Wearer can be marked with all chaos marks

5 Rotten Flesh: Missile attacks have no effect

6 Bloodlust: The wearer picks one weapon in his profile. The weapon has +3 attacks and -3 Rend

7 Confusion of Darkness: 1 StD Unit per turn can be removed from the field and setup anywhere more than 9" away from enemy units

8 Dark Amulet: Once per Hero phase the wearer can cast a spell. No dice roll required. This spell can't be dispelled by any kind of rule or ability.

9 Dark Shield: The wearer has 2+ save against mortal wounds.

 

Magic: 

1 Weak bodies: Roll a dice for every model in one enemy unit within 18". Every dice that equals or beats the unmodified save

causes a mortal wound. Warmachines and heroes suffer 2d6 mortal wounds.

2 Dark Terror: Roll a dice for every model one enemy unit within 18". Every dice roll that equals or is lower than the units unmodified save causes 1 mortal wound

3 Plaque of rust: Chose an enemy unit with 18" For the rest of the battle -1 to their armor save. Every unit can only be picked once per battle.

4 Imortal Bravery: Pick a friendly unit. If this Unit fails a battleshock the next enemy unit to it loses the models instead. No friendly units flee.

5 Flow of blood: +1 to Hit rolls targeting one enemy unit within 18"

6 Bound Magic: Target one enemy wizzard within 21".  The Wizzard has -2 to cast until the friendly hero phase

7 Pleasure of Torture: One friendly unit wholly within 48" can be chosen to pile in and attack in the hero phase

8 A friendly Hero with 18" can be chosen to be the target of an Eye of the Gods Table roll even if another unit triggered it.

9 Magic Repel: Target an enemy wizzard. The next time this wizzards attempt to cast a spell, the spell is dispelled and the wizzard suffers d3 mortal wounds. A Spell from the general handbook can't be chosen as the next spell to cast.

 

Eye of the Gods Table

Roll 2 d6 and apply result of the table

1-2 The Hero or 1 model of the unit turns into a Spawn

3-4 The Hero or Unit get +1 attack until end of the battle

5-6 The Hero or Unit gets +1 to wound until end of the battle

7 The Eye is closed nothing happens and the unit or Hero loses all Eye of the Gods rewards.

8-9 The Hero or Unit gets +1 to Hit

10-11 The Hero or every model in the unit has +1 wound until end of the battle

12 The Hero or unit champion turns into a Demon Prince but keep it's non combat equipment

All rewards except 1 and 12 are cumulative

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by Kurrilino

[Cambot1231]

The obligatory addition of chaos trolls with rend 3 vomit attacks would be great too!

[Arkiham]

delete it and start over. imo

 

chaos warriors need to be basically liberators but not as tyrannical and murderous of innocents 😋

All the heavy armoured units, such as chaos warriors, gorebeast chariot etc need to be under archaon - everchosen

the marauders and lightly armoured things, should be under darkoath, like daemons/mortals/bloodbound etc this would just been everchosen/darkoath but all still mortal, allow all the warbands as darkoath units. 

 

add some new possessed units in, rework chosen to be like the retributors etc, some varanguard on foot,