The Rumour Thread

[Vasshpit]

Concerning the SE cut I really think it's reall just as simple as they want a cohesive design moving forward with their poster faction. These are all from a brand new game setting in its infancy where design or even rate of said IPs success were up in the air. 

Now that it's not even a question they simply want a solid coherent design throughout the range. 

Sometimes you have to just rip the bandaid off instead of dragging it out. 

I've no doubt we'll see the sacrosanct design again in future releases. 

[Sception]

12 minutes ago, Luperci said:

Why would they drop the teratic cohort or chameleon skinks, they're part of their associated armies fully, unlike the realm associated chaos warbands

Teratic Cohort are NOT part of their associated army fully.  Lore-wise they're failures and exiles re-shaped for final use as expendable scouts to send into areas too dangerous to risk more valuable ossiarch soldiers, ie they don't fight alongside regular OBR armies at all.  Model wise they're a haphazzard collection of ramshackle warriors that don't really make sense as a single unit (the birds can't fly because they're in a unit with grounded stuff, the birds, centaur, and dogs can't be fast because they're in a unit with foot infantry, etc).  Some Warcry warbands are clearly just AoS units - eg the gorgers, or lumineth water temple warrior monks.  But some are very clearly warcry warbands first and foremost, as recognized by being a weird mix of guys with very different arms & equipment, and the Teratic Cohort very much fall in this latter category.

Per the article, it sounds like the warcry warbands that are sticking around - presumably not including those who are just AoS units and thus don't need separate warscrolls anyway - are getting Legends only warscrolls right from the start.

If I'm understanding that correctly then Teratic Cohort won't ever be a matched play unit in 4e, they'll be legends from the get go.

...

I have to say that I'm surprised we didn't see a bunch of Cursed City stuff getting shifted to Legends for the Gravelords.  They're definitely a faction that needs some winnowing of their own.  Maybe todays article wasn't an exhaustive list of the stuff getting dropped?  Or maybe the Soulblight winnowing won't happen until they're due for a 4e battletome?

Edited April 4 by Sception

[Luperci]

1 minute ago, brocktoon said:

If anything is fair game and culls might now come in 3 years, we're in Magic the Gathering territory on something other than just rules (which was already annoying imo). I'm a whale/casual hybrid, exactly the sort of person that they'd put in their core customer category, and I'm very skittish now.

Universes beyond WH40k? Now with rules for MESBG minis (this is a joke)

Serious note, mtg standard is a format that's heavily fallen out of favour compared to commander and its associated variants, as well as modern to some degree I think? largely because players don't appreciate their decks being invalidated after a year of play and want to use their full collections.

[Luperci]

2 minutes ago, Sception said:

Teratic Cohort are NOT part of their associated army fully.  Lore-wise they're failures and exiles re-shaped for final use as expendable scouts.  Model wise they're a haphazzard collection of ramshackle warriors that don't really make sense as a single unit (the birds can't fly because they're in a unit with grounded stuff, the birds, centaur, and dogs can't be fast because they're in a unit with foot infantry, etc).  Some Warcry warbands are clearly just AoS units - eg the gorgers, or lumineth water temple warrior monks.  But some are very clearly warcry warbands first and foremost, as recognized by being a weird mix of guys with very different arms & equipment, and the Teratic Cohort very much fall in this latter category.

Per the article, it sounds like the warcry warbands that are sticking around - presumably not including those who are just AoS units and thus don't need separate warscrolls anyway - are getting Legends only warscrolls right from the start.

If I'm understanding that correctly then Teratic Cohort won't ever be a matched play unit in 4e, they'll be legends from the get go.

...

I have to say that I'm surprised we didn't see a bunch of Cursed City stuff getting shifted to Legends for the Gravelords.  They're definitely a faction that needs some winnowing of their own.  Maybe todays article wasn't an exhaustive list of the stuff getting dropped?  Or maybe the Soulblight winnowing won't happen until they're due for a 4e battletome?

I meant more aesthetically and lorewise, the iron golems are just some chaos cultists from chamon, teratic cohort are full OBRs and fulfill a place in their army list as scouts/skirmishers. I would guess soulblight split into vampires + necromantic horror skeletons and zombies maybe? Death are up for 5th ed so we'll see then I expect

Edited April 4 by Luperci

[Gaz Taylor]

23 minutes ago, The Red King said:

Imagine you stole money from your partner and they adamantly tell you they want you to come clean if you did it.

 

So then you tell them and they get mad you stole from them.

 

Do you tell them they can't be mad because they asked you to tell them? We're not raging at the communication (which needs MORE communication) we're raging at the act which is always wrong.

I don’t think that’s the best example (business selling you stuff compared to betrayal by the one you love), although I think it accurately describes how you are feeling. 
 

22 minutes ago, Boar said:

At LVO folks asked GW about BoC and got response that essentially rumors about BoC squat are false.

Screenshot from AoS Coach discord

This screams people not talking to people. I’d say if somebody knew about what was going on, they wouldn’t have answered like that as it would make them look silly and bad. They would have answered saying probably or some other non committal answer. 

[The Red King]

4 minutes ago, Luperci said:

Universes beyond WH40k? Now with rules for MESBG minis (this is a joke)

Serious note, mtg standard is a format that's heavily fallen out of favour compared to commander and its associated variants, as well as modern to some degree I think? largely because players don't appreciate their decks being invalidated after a year of play and want to use their full collections.

Not to mention that Magic decks, while costing very nearly the same as an army for insane reasons, does not require you to spend countless hours, planning, building, painting, tucking into bed at night or any of the other things that everyone does with their favorite army.

 

@Gaz Taylor oh yeah it's not meant to be a comparable example of the level of betrayal. Just the most direct example I can think of for when "just telling us the truth like we asked" does not in any way lessen the impact of the action.

Edited April 4 by The Red King

[Ragest]

1 minute ago, Luperci said:

Death are up for 5th ed so we'll see then I expect

We can think that 1st edition was about Chaos, so we are repeating the cycle now and next is death or we can think that 1st edition was order and the next one is the start of the cycle.

I don't know wich one looks more promising.

[Sception]

5 minutes ago, Luperci said:

I would guess soulblight split into vampires + necromantic horror skeletons and zombies maybe? Death are up for 5th ed so we'll see then I expect

I highly doubt it.  There's no reason to split vampires and necromancers into separate armies since they'd both be using exactly the same skeletons, wights and zombies as troops, EDIT: and even if you did split the faction, a vampire foot hero cull would still need to happen, especially since the faction kind of needs a new generic cavalry vampire hero.  So yeah, the Cursed City stuff really does need to get kicked to legends sooner or later.

As for new Death factions in general, we haven't even seen a second wave for OBR yet, FEC still have untapped potential for further expansion, and Nighthaunt have several older kits begging for a refresh.  There's really no call or reason for a new death faction any time soon, and no hint or foreshadowing of one in the lore.  IF death are in the starter box for 5e (big if, there isn't even a pattern yet to identify, much less one that can be relied on), then Stormcast vs. wave 2 bonereapers would be the obvious choice.

Edited April 4 by Sception

[ScionOfOssia]

Just now, Sception said:

Teratic Cohort are NOT part of their associated army fully.  Lore-wise they're failures and exiles re-shaped for final use as expendable scouts.  Model wise they're a haphazzard collection of ramshackle warriors that don't really make sense as a single unit (the birds can't fly because they're in a unit with grounded stuff, the birds, centaur, and dogs can't be fast because they're in a unit with foot infantry, etc).  Some Warcry warbands are clearly just AoS units - eg the gorgers, or lumineth water temple warrior monks.  But some are very clearly warcry warbands first and foremost, as recognized by being a weird mix of guys with very different arms & equipment, and the Teratic Cohort very much fall in this latter category.

Per the article, it sounds like the warcry warbands that are sticking around - presumably not including those who are just AoS units and thus don't need separate warscrolls anyway - are getting Legends only warscrolls right from the start.

If I'm understanding that correctly then Teratic Cohort won't ever be a matched play unit in 4e, they'll be legends from the get go.

...

I have to say that I'm surprised we didn't see a bunch of Cursed City stuff getting shifted to Legends for the Gravelords.  They're definitely a faction that needs some winnowing of their own.  Maybe todays article wasn't an exhaustive list of the stuff getting dropped?  Or maybe the Soulblight winnowing won't happen until they're due for a 4e battletome?

I believe they are Parrah caste units (Though I'd need to check their emblems), who are canonically sent into exile to basically die as outriders and expendable scouts for the main army.

[Black_Templar_Lad]

8 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said:

 

This screams people not talking to people. I’d say if somebody knew about what was going on, they wouldn’t have answered like that as it would make them look silly and bad. They would have answered saying probably or some other non committal answer. 

Definitely. Such a shame all round. An absolute shame. 

[Sarouan]

14 minutes ago, Baron I_oyd said:

I know a lot of you are playing Total War Warhammer 3. I can officially confirm that if the dlc sales don't double during this year, the current plan is to end the saga in late 2026 / early 2027 with a final dlc called The End Times which will bring the Supereme Lord Nagash and Gray Seer Thanquol with Verminlords in the final cataclysmic dlc for Total War Warhammer 3

Modders do a better job than CA about adding content for the game, anyway. After the debacle of what CA did with previous DLC and what they actually did with their money on a failed Battle Royale game, that kind of rumor won't work on the TW3 community that still didn't forget these events.

[NotBeastmanBob]

As someone who's name/handle on this forum is now terribly ironic ......Deeply, deeply sad by this news 😔

 

My Major, major gripe with all this is the "That's it, tis gone" attitude.

 

I would like, along with many here I'd wager, for any of these miniatures facing the foretold axe to just go on "Made To Order" for a month. 

 

Covers all bases, gives people the chance to order when paydays come in, the opportunity to allow kits are not in stock for MONTHS AT A TIME in some cases to go out to those who would like to have them for some project or whatever.

[Tonhel]

1 hour ago, Aeryenn said:

I guess today GW lost a lot more than it seems at first glance. They lost trust. Customers will now think twice before buying anything that is old enough that might get hammered. I sure will be careful with my expenditures.

I find this a strange way of thinking. 10 years ago GW blew up a game that was decades old. You can't compare that outrage with what is happening now with removing BoC and Bonesplitterz and still GW did alright. The same will happen now. Next year financial report will be great.

You can't expect GW to expand without removing older mini's/factions. The non stormcast units that are removed did probably not sell well. Combined with all the new idea's the AoS team probably has for new units/factions means some stuff has to go. For managers this is the stuff that sells the worst. For AoS its probably BoC and Bonesplitterz.

When Beastmean Brayherds get its Arcane journal in TOW, combined with a handfull of new mini's and maybe a new plastic kit. It will generate a higher income than just letting the BoC mini's stay in AoS. 

It's bad for the current BoC players, but in the end AoS will grow with newer and better mini's / factions. 

With Stormcast. It took GW 2 editions to find a good aesthetics for SCE, now they have one. It makes sense to bring everything up to date with AoS 3 SCE.

Again it is sad for the players that were invested in BoC that it is removed from AoS, but in the end it just didn't sell well within the AoS range.

 

Edited April 4 by Tonhel

[Sception]

I'm still shocked the're going with 'these are separate units and you just won't be allowed to play with your old ones' for the stormcast replacements, instead of 'these are new models for your existing units, feel free to keep playing the old ones if you want, but your army won't look as cool'.  There's just no good reason for 'liberators' and 'liberators in thunderstrike armor' to have different warscrolls in the first place.

[The Red King]

2 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

You can't expect GW to expand without removing older mini's/factions.

Except they aren't removing BoC since they'll continue to sell the entire range for ToW meaning they have cleared up exactly one book worth of design capacity with this asinine move and they bought that sliver of design space with a whole ton of bad will and lost consumer confidence. But hey you can't put that on a spreadsheet so who cares right?

[Sarouan]

It's actually the competitive players who are hurt the most. They're the ones who invest money in an army that is solely and purely aimed at AoS tournaments. If the said factions aren't "official" anymore (or are said to be dropped at a specific point in time), that kills the motivation for them to invest any further in this.

That's why I said the competitive scene can't be trusted and kills the fun in games. Because GW knows very well competitive players are the most driven to scrupulously follow the best meta and the most likely to buy a whole new army to keep being at the top. They also know putting an army on Legend is basically a death sentence for the life of these factions in competitive scene tournaments. Casual and narrative players, it's no big deal for them - they already have everything to keep playing at their pace and don't care about "official" or "balance" nonsense.

Devastating news for competite BOC players, they have all rights to be angry and throw ungor spearmen point first at AoS tournament posters in their training room.

Edited April 4 by Sarouan

[Gareth 🍄]

Just now, Gaz Taylor said:

This screams people not talking to people. I’d say if somebody knew about what was going on, they wouldn’t have answered like that as it would make them look silly and bad. They would have answered saying probably or some other non committal answer. 

Yeah that's what I'd guess happened too.

Seeing ranges culled or pruned always makes me think twice about starting new armies TBH, and I have sympathy with anyone into those factions feeling upset today.

Think I'll just stick with my Ironjawz for the foreseeable future. I've already put working on my Kruleboyz on ice (outside of buying the recent Zagnog release) as they feel a bit half-finished as a faction to me. I will of course return to them if they get another wave with cavalry 

[The Lost Sigmarite]

Speaking of, my gaming group's Discord one has had some interesting responses about the squatting. They think the free Legends BT are a cool move from GW. As we are mostly casual gamers (the tryhard tourney people have left a few years back), I think I'll still see BoC and BS hitting the table if I manage to find our old BS player.

29 minutes ago, Baron I_oyd said:

Good evening everyone, I know most of you are still reeling from today's bad news. Unfortunately, there are more new leaks.

I know a lot of you are playing Total War Warhammer 3. I can officially confirm that if the dlc sales don't double during this year, the current plan is to end the saga in late 2026 / early 2027 with a final dlc called The End Times which will bring the Supereme Lord Nagash and Gray Seer Thanquol with Verminlords in the final cataclysmic dlc for Total War Warhammer 3

At the end of 2027, Warhammer 40K will either be announced or released.

"If the DLC sales don't double" they won't. TWW feels really complete now, already has tons of DLC, and following the shadows of change debacle (which was 100% Sega's fault) and the very delayed release of thrones of decay (alongside the layoffs because once again Sega is making mistakes and paying them by ruining people's jobs and lives), I don't see them selling as much as let's say WH2 DLCs like TK or vampirates. Only big names missing from the game are Nagash, Thanquol and Neferata anyways.

[Mutton]

49 minutes ago, Boar said:

At LVO folks asked GW about BoC and got response that essentially rumors about BoC squat are false.

Screenshot from AoS Coach discord

That is truly despicable. This is why you can't ever trust a corporation.

[Tonhel]

8 minutes ago, The Red King said:

Except they aren't removing BoC since they'll continue to sell the entire range for ToW meaning they have cleared up exactly one book worth of design capacity with this asinine move and they bought that sliver of design space with a whole ton of bad will and lost consumer confidence. But hey you can't put that on a spreadsheet so who cares right?

Customers confidence works different within GW. After AoS 4th, the removal will not be visible in the financial numbers. 

Yes, and by moving it to TOW it will generate a much higher income that just let the BoC mini's linger in AoS. In the end it's simple. A decision like this isn't taken in a wimp. With minimal investment Arcane journal (2 new armies of infamy), a couple of resin miniatures and maybe a plastic kit, it will generate a higher profit that letting BoC stay more or less unsupported in AoS.

It's salty for AoS BoC players, but I do believe this is the case.

Edited April 4 by Tonhel

[Ragest]

11 minutes ago, Sception said:

I'm still shocked the're going with 'these are separate units and you just won't be allowed to play with your old ones' for the stormcast replacements, instead of 'these are new models for your existing units, feel free to keep playing the old ones if you want, but your army won't look as cool'.

They literally said that you can proxy with old minis as you want.

[BarakUrbaz]

2 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Only big names missing from the game are Nagash, Thanquol and Neferata anyways.

Well there is Monkey King who is one of the biggest names in Cathay lore. 

[The Red King]

Just now, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Speaking of, my gaming group's Discord one has had some interesting responses about the squatting. They think the free Legends BT are a cool move from GW. As we are mostly casual gamers (the tryhard tourney people have left a few years back), I think I'll still see BoC and BS hitting the table if I manage to find our old BS player.

"If the DLC sales don't double" they won't. TWW feels really complete now, already has tons of DLC, and following the shadows of change debacle (which was 100% Sega's fault) and the very delayed release of thrones of decay (alongside the layoffs because once again Sega is making mistakes and paying them by ruining people's jobs and lives), I don't see them selling as much as let's say WH2 DLCs like TK or vampirates. Only big names missing from the game are Nagash, Thanquol and Neferata anyways.

Ironically I have a different beasts related complaint for TWWH. I used to buy all the DLC but then the price went up because of the way God marked gors are getting split up I'd have to spend hundred+ dollars to get 4 DLC's for 12 factions I don't play in order to get the 4 units I need to make my actual faction complete? Maybe in the end they'll make a Beastmen DLC.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

Also remember : the AoS Beastlord might have had a short lifespan...

But at least it was longer than the 9th edition Guard codex. 

[Sception]

Just now, Ragest said:

They literally said that you can proxy with old minis as you want.

Did they?  I didn't catch that.  IMO they should have done that with all the dropped stormcast stuff, not 'here's legends rules' but instead 'here's the current warscroll that this old unit counts as'.  They might have had to slightly change what stuff they drop, like keeping the bolt thrower around or whatever, but still.  Far less bad blood that way.