The Rumour Thread

[TrawlingCleaner]

2 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

The idea that Abraxia being released prevents a Valkia update is pretty funny to me. I don't know a lot about Khorne fluff, but I would hope that Valkia has more going on than just "devil woman with spear". But even if not, Khorne seemingly has an endless variety of "muscle dude with axe", so I think GA: Chaos can afford to double up on the concept.

I think their point was more that the spear rumour engine was thought to be Valkia's for quite a while, now we know it's Abraxia's that dampens that idea 😁

 

A redone Khul seems like a fair bet, as Blades of Khorne got most of their love in 1st edition along with Liberators, Prosectors etc it seems fair that they'll also get some love too? Personally the BoK stuff aged much much better than the first wave of SCE 😅

[SunStorm]

5 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

The idea that Abraxia being released prevents a Valkia update is pretty funny to me. I don't know a lot about Khorne fluff, but I would hope that Valkia has more going on than just "devil woman with spear". But even if not, Khorne seemingly has an endless variety of "muscle dude with axe", so I think GA: Chaos can afford to double up on the concept.

I wasn't suggesting Abraxia takes her place, it was more that there were rumours about a Valkia update linked to Dawnbringers, which seemed to then get lent more weight with the rumour engine of the spear. Once that was shown to be Abraxia, I was just asking if there was anything still pointing to a potential Valkia update. 

 

 

 

[Gaz Taylor]

11 minutes ago, SunStorm said:

I wasn't suggesting Abraxia takes her place, it was more that there were rumours about a Valkia update linked to Dawnbringers, which seemed to then get lent more weight with the rumour engine of the spear. Once that was shown to be Abraxia, I was just asking if there was anything still pointing to a potential Valkia update. 

I suspect people may have got them mixed up. When you talk about a woman chaos warrior with a daemon spear, you start thinking about Valkia. We will probably see a new model when they get round to releasing the Khorne stuff.

[RollSixxess]

Just throwing back to the talk about Battleforce boxes and Regiments :

GW’s ‘modular’ rules sales pitch for AOS 4th and the new Spearhead boxes push me towards the idea that GW is trying to put its ‘discount boxes’ as a central building component towards a list. Using a launch Battleforce/Box as a playable ‘~1000pt core regiment’ for your general, with the idea that a player could buy two ~500pt ‘Spearheads’ to build up two additional regiments really helps an onboarding into the ‘true-scale’ 2000pts whilst also making it easier for a newer player (‘buy these three boxes for an instant army!’). I’d place a good bet on a sales pitch for the new starters mirroring 40k’s ‘Combat Patrol in a Box!’ - just relies if the launch box pushes a ‘1000pts in a box with terrain!’ line as expected.

I’d imagine it’s more certain if the new Spearheads, like the ones we have seen, are more cohesive in their themes e.g GSG no longer has squigs, troggs and gobbos but is more ‘here is a Squig hero with Squigs galore!’

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

8 minutes ago, RollSixxess said:

Just throwing back to the talk about Battleforce boxes and Regiments :

GW’s ‘modular’ rules sales pitch for AOS 4th and the new Spearhead boxes push me towards the idea that GW is trying to put its ‘discount boxes’ as a central building component towards a list. Using a launch Battleforce/Box as a playable ‘~1000pt core regiment’ for your general, with the idea that a player could buy two ~500pt ‘Spearheads’ to build up two additional regiments really helps an onboarding into the ‘true-scale’ 2000pts whilst also making it easier for a newer player (‘buy these three boxes for an instant army!’). I’d place a good bet on a sales pitch for the new starters mirroring 40k’s ‘Combat Patrol in a Box!’ - just relies if the launch box pushes a ‘1000pts in a box with terrain!’ line as expected.

I’d imagine it’s more certain if the new Spearheads, like the ones we have seen, are more cohesive in their themes e.g GSG no longer has squigs, troggs and gobbos but is more ‘here is a Squig hero with Squigs galore!’

It certainly seems like Spearhead boxes, the Spearhead format and the new Regiment system are all designed to work together to give new players an easier path from being a complete beginner to a full 2000 point army. I'm not so sure that they want players to buy multiple of the same Spearhead, though. Historically, it seems to me that they have been moving away from that kind of thing. In early AoS, we had boxes like the FEC, Fyreslayers and Beastclaw Raiders, where 3 of them could conceivably build your whole list. But newer boxes seem to be built deliberately to become less good in multiples. The Stormcast Spearhead has Yndrasta, a unique character where having multiple of her is useless. The Cities Spearhead had the Cavalier-Marshall, of which you (at the moment) don't want multiple, and the Cannon in it.

I think the plan is probably to spread player's investments wide with Spearheads instead, using them to make it easy to start multiple armies, but also making it so that to have a "good" 2000 point army, you still need to buy mostly single kits.

 

[EonChao]

1 hour ago, Aeryenn said:

I see your point. I still think there should be more than one poster boy but I'm not the one pulling the strings.

Do we actually have some checked data on how SCE are really popular? That info would still be corrupted by how hard GW pushes them but I'm just curious. 

Most companies don’t get into specifics like this outside of internal meetings but the fact that we’re 10 years into AoS (development wise) and GW are putting effort into modernising the older Stormcast figures means that they must have the numbers to back up their popularity. Companies don’t usually  continue to back failing products that heavily.

Whether that popularity is down to them being pushed or their being pushed is because they’re popular is a moot point now. At the end of the day AoS is outperforming what WFB did and part of that will be down to its most visible faction selling well.

Just remember though, unlike Space Marines this is probably it for Stormcast in 4th. They might get stuff in Warcry, Underworlds and during the end of edition narrative but unlike 40K, some of the other factions get to flourish for the rest of the edition.

3rd gave us decent sized updates for Sylvaneth, Seraphon, Cities of Sigmar, Slaves to Darkness, Nighthaunt, Flesh-Eater Courts, Gloomspite and Orruks, that’s a third of the factions in the game. I get not being a fan of Stormcast but there’s also certainly going to be plenty to come in the next few years, and part of that is down to the success of the Stormcast drawing people in 

 

[Chikout]

1 hour ago, Aeryenn said:

I see your point. I still think there should be more than one poster boy but I'm not the one pulling the strings.

Do we actually have some checked data on how SCE are really popular? That info would still be corrupted by how hard GW pushes them but I'm just curious. 

There's very little concrete data. The only things I can find that are quantified is tournament data and Instagram activity. 

In the latest woehammer stats Stormcast are back as the most played army despite not being the strongest. Interestingly Stormcast were the most played army from launch of first edition until they were dethroned in second edition by Skaven. 

Instagram is a weird one but it does give an idea of popularity. As it's tags on photos it's mostly saying which factions have been painted the most. When it comes to tags it's not even close. Stormcast Eternals have about a third more posts than the next most popular faction which is Skaven perhaps due to their name not changing since the old world. To give a comparison to 40k, there are about a third more uses of the eldar hashtag than Stormcast Eternals. 

 

This all does suggest that Stormcast are popular but to what extent that is a catch22 situation is impossible to judge. 

[RollSixxess]

4 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

But newer boxes seem to be built deliberately to become less good in multiples. The Stormcast Spearhead has Yndrasta, a unique character where having multiple of her is useless. The Cities Spearhead had the Cavalier-Marshall, of which you (at the moment) don't want multiple, and the Cannon in it.

Stormcast will likely get an alternative, like with Space Marines, from the starter set. I imagine Yndrasta is much like the Inceptors for SMs - it makes sense to keep them around as a bundle rather than invest in splitting the sprue into multi-parts.

Cities though - agreed, it definitely is the spanner in the theory

[Grungnisson]

1 hour ago, Gotz said:

the new regiments thing kind of solves the issue of the many battleline options for stormcast.

although I think its a little bit boring 

My preference would be:

1. Combine the crossbows and bows into a single profile.

2. Combine Judicators and Vigilors into a single warscroll.

3. Have:

3a) Raptors as long range snipers.

3b) Judicators/Vigilors as standard mid-range shooters

3c) Hunters as short range strike-and-fade rangers, with half decent melee profile.

[Ejecutor]

16 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

It certainly seems like Spearhead boxes, the Spearhead format and the new Regiment system are all designed to work together to give new players an easier path from being a complete beginner to a full 2000 point army. I'm not so sure that they want players to buy multiple of the same Spearhead, though. Historically, it seems to me that they have been moving away from that kind of thing. In early AoS, we had boxes like the FEC, Fyreslayers and Beastclaw Raiders, where 3 of them could conceivably build your whole list. But newer boxes seem to be built deliberately to become less good in multiples. The Stormcast Spearhead has Yndrasta, a unique character where having multiple of her is useless. The Cities Spearhead had the Cavalier-Marshall, of which you (at the moment) don't want multiple, and the Cannon in it.

I think the plan is probably to spread player's investments wide with Spearheads instead, using them to make it easy to start multiple armies, but also making it so that to have a "good" 2000 point army, you still need to buy mostly single kits.

 

Precisely the CoS one is not that bad as a rebuyable product. You can use a second Marshall and Cannon in some builds, but I agree, they seem to be focusing them in a "just get one" box.

[Vagard]

9 minutes ago, Grungnisson said:

2. Combine Judicators and Vigilors into a single warscroll.

Completely agree with you post but on this quote, don't thik this is possible as the weapons and outfit completely differ. I agree that the role of both is nearly the same. But apart from basically erase one of the two warscrolls (and the minis by the same) I don't see how is it possible (even more whe you have a special weapon for judicators and 2 weapons choices) 

[OkayestDM]

7 minutes ago, Grungnisson said:

My preference would be:

1. Combine the crossbows and bows into a single profile.

2. Combine Judicators and Vigilors into a single warscroll.

3. Have:

3a) Raptors as long range snipers.

3b) Judicators/Vigilors as standard mid-range shooters

3c) Hunters as short range strike-and-fade rangers, with half decent melee profile.

My only addendum to this would be to buff up Hunters into a slightly more elite unit, definitely more powerful than the rank and files like Liberators and Vigilors.

Hunters are/were (new edition, new warscroll, yadda-yadda) a unit designed to walk off the edge of the map into enemy territory, far away from any supporting units. They need to be tough enough and deadly enough to stand on their own and represent a credible threat. 3rd edition Hunters just never quite made the cut for me, which was dissapointing because I love the models and concept for the unit.

 

[Snarff]

11 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Precisely the CoS one is not that bad as a rebuyable product. You can use a second Marshall and Cannon in some builds, but I agree, they seem to be focusing them in a "just get one" box.

I honestly don't mind this. I have so many unnecessary models from all the Fyreslayer box sets and so many models get put exclusively into these boxsets. If I want to buy an additional battlesmith now I have to buy an entire vanguard with even more Vulkites and Hearthguard that I absolutely do not need.

GW is really bad at letting you buy what you actually want sometimes.

[Ragest]

The duplicates are not in the judicator-vigilor warscrolls, are in vanguard-judicators.

Vigilors is a mixed unit, with capabilities in melee and range, that supports your other ranged units.

I think Vanguard should be the long range antielite option -> 30" with some mortal wound capacity or high rend

Judicator the medium antichaff range ->24/18" with exploding hits

Vigilors the mixed option ->12" with the best melee profile.

 

[Grungnisson]

10 minutes ago, Vagard said:

Completely agree with you post but on this quote, don't thik this is possible as the weapons and outfit completely differ. I agree that the role of both is nearly the same. But apart from basically erase one of the two warscrolls (and the minis by the same) I don't see how is it possible (even more whe you have a special weapon for judicators and 2 weapons choices) 

A gentle reminder that AoS is not a WYSIWYG game.

[Garrac]

6 minutes ago, Grungnisson said:

A gentle reminder that AoS is not a WYSIWYG game.

This is a GW game, would also be weird if GW doesn't "fix" this.

Not worried because bluetack exists

[Ejecutor]

11 minutes ago, Snarff said:

I honestly don't mind this. I have so many unnecessary models from all the Fyreslayer box sets and so many models get put exclusively into these boxsets. If I want to buy an additional battlesmith now I have to buy an entire vanguard with even more Vulkites and Hearthguard that I absolutely do not need.

GW is really bad at letting you buy what you actually want sometimes.

Interesting. What you see as something negative I see it as something positive.

I had all the Steelhelms and Cavaliers I wanted, but I was missing the Cavalier Marshall and a second Cannon, so I bought the Spearhead and sold 10 Steelhelms and 5 Cavaliers that I would replace later on with the ones from the box.

The result? A pretty sweet discount on the models. I know it could not be too convenient for some people, but for me the discount I ended up getting was worth the shot. The Marshall and Cannon ended up costing me 24 €, while purchasing them separately would cost me (store discount included) 78,15 €. Almost three times what I paid. And it is not the only case where I've done this, I normally buy multiple big boxes to get something I am looking for just cheaper, and I also help other people to buy stuff cheaper as I usually sell my stuff at a 40% discount over GW price.

[Ejecutor]

3 minutes ago, Garrac said:

This is a GW game, would also be weird if GW doesn't "fix" this.

Not worried because bluetack exists

Would be weird to change something like that, precisely the rules shown so far are saying we are moving in the opposite direction.

[Vagard]

10 minutes ago, Grungnisson said:

A gentle reminder that AoS is not a WYSIWYG game.

Of course and i was the first to hope that liberators and vindictor will be merged together to reduce the number of warscrolls. They have much more similarities than vigilors and judicators and yet, as we've seen the whole squad with still dual weapon and great weapon option, I pretty sure that they will infortunately remains two separate warscrolls. I don't see why GW will not do the same for archers if they did not do it for the most obvious warscrolls. To me they have too much differences. 

[Grungnisson]

3 minutes ago, Vagard said:

Of course and i was the first to hope that liberators and vindictor will be merged together to reduce the number of warscrolls. They have much more similarities than vigilors and judicators and yet, as we've seen the whole squad with still dual weapon and great weapon option, I pretty sure that they will infortunately remains two separate warscrolls. I don't see why GW will not do the same for archers if they did not do it for the most obvious warscrolls. To me they have too much differences. 

Hence the wording 'my preference would be'.

My personal preference, not a prediction.

[Vagard]

22 minutes ago, Grungnisson said:

Hence the wording 'my preference would be'.

My personal preference, not a prediction.

I share this preference as I said it in my answer to your post. Just explaining why it is unlikely (to me) regarding what we already know, unfortunately.

Edited April 4 by Vagard

[GloomkingWortwazi]

So if what most of us are speculating is true and allies are being removed with regiments of renown as the stand-in for them, that is going to break a few flavour specific (i.e. non-competitive) ally choices, like the Black Coach allied into SBGL (because that's where it belong you thieving bedsheet ghosts! *cough* ahem).

Same for fluffy stuff like specific SCE into order factions as a city-protectors based splash, or Dryads, etc. into an order faction for a splash of my guys/gals are from the living city. Yada-yada. Unless you're one of the lucky ones and the hero or unit you like having in your army gets a Regiment of Renown box...

That's a little bit of a bummer if it plays out that way... we get a win for construction flavour but at the cost of ally flavour.

Edited April 4 by GloomkingWortwazi

[Ejecutor]

And the problem is not only about battlelines and archers, we are getting now into the chonky territory with the new ruination chamber. Yeah, they are darker and have some lore behind them, but c'mon, they are just another iteration of the paladins/ annihilators.

[Ragest]

1 minute ago, GloomkingWortwazi said:

So if what most of us are speculating is true and allies are being removed with regiments of renown as the stand-in for them, that is going to break a few flavour specific (i.e. non-competitive) ally choices, like the Black Coach allied into SBGL (because that's where it belong you thieving bedsheet ghosts! *cough* ahem).

Same for fluffy stuff like specific SCE into order factions as a city-protectors based splash, or Dryads, etc. into an order faction for a splash of my guys/gals are from the living city. Yada-yada. Unless you're one of the lucky ones and the hero or unit you like having in your army gets a Regiment of Renown box...

That's a little bit of a bummer if it plays out that way... we get a win for construction flavour but at the cost of ally flavour.

In narrative enviorments you can play what you want, nobody can stop you to put a Black Coach in your SBGL list or some mixed order units in cities.

[GloomkingWortwazi]

Just now, Ragest said:

In narrative enviorments you can play what you want, nobody can stop you to put a Black Coach in your SBGL list or some mixed order units in cities.

Let's face it, most people outside of kitchen-table-hammer aren't playing narrative though.