The Rumour Thread

[pikachoux]

Any news about the release of the next Harbingers book?

[HorticulusTGA]

20 minutes ago, Asbestress said:

Ohhh, I really like this.

So if I understand it correctly, the designers wanted this to be:

• MAIN focus: what the average person from any realm/city looks like in an army, not just in general (i.e.: city life)
• Low(er) fantasy than most other armies, serving as a point of comparison to really highlight the strangeness of everything else

That's IMO quite well done and I'm looking forward for the rest of the series.

However I really DISLIKE the fact they keep forgetting that the Warcry Warbands were the first attempt - and success - at showing real life, down to earth Humans from different cultures in the Mortal Realms (probably because it isn't the current marketing focus aka selling CoS kits).

Remember : Chaos Barbarians are still the basic human population of the Mortal Realms. They outnumber the Cities folk by a lot. 

The basic human prototypes in AOS were the Darkoath Chieftain and the Excelsior Warpriest from Warhammer Quest : Silver Tower. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by HorticulusTGA

[Ganigumo]

48 minutes ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

How would you make the armour different? Going back to the black orc style? Same with the weapon. Which again doesn't fit in with the parent faction. 

I think that's the issue, non ironjaw players don't seem the grasp the theme of ironjawz and thats not me trying to be rude or anything. They are very distinct in how they forge their armour and weapons, it a big part of their backstory the same way with why they don't have musicians and banners. 

Ardboys currently are just drawn to the IJ waaagh, and are really regimented which IJs hate. This looks to be a total redesign of ardboys and gives us an idea of what it's like to be a basic orruk instead of your either a massive brute or a skinny lanky Gutrippa. Now it looks like ironjawz at their lowest start as ardboyz and grow and fight their way to brute status. To me thats perfect. 

This dude and the new ardboyz will probably still be 32mm bases, so visibly smaller. Shouldn't be tough tough to tell.

In terms of the armor, and the look I am a fan of this guy. But Ironjawz forge their weapons and armor by smashing metal into the right shapes and sizes. Its incredibly crude. Something that would have been good for new ardboyz would've been mostly scavenged armor instead. So instead of having the same armor as the brutes, they'd have scavenged armor that tries to mimic the style. With the narrative reason being the ardboyz aren't strong enough to smash the thick metal into shape nearly as well as brutes.

[Twisted Firaun]

4 minutes ago, HorticulusTGA said:

That's IMO quite well done and I'm looking forward for the rest of the series.

However I really DISLIKE the fact they keep forgetting that the Warcry Warbands were the first attempt - and success - at showing real life, down to earth Humans from different cultures in the Mortal Realms (probably because it isn't the current marketing focus aka selling CoS kits).

Remember : Chaos Barbarians are still the basic human population of the Mortal Realms. They outnumber the Cities folk by a lot. 

The basic human prototypes in AOS were the Darkoath Chieftain and the Excelsior Warpriest from Warhammer Quest : Silver Tower. 

Honestly this post right here is why I really enjoy every Warcry kit: they show us the people of the realms before Sigmar showed his face again. The Age of Chaos was a centuries if not millennia long time period throughout the Mortal Realms where Chaos essentially reigned supreme, so we should see a lot more mortals used to the idea of daemons and villainous demigods and not “heroic” champions of order. 

[Clan's Cynic]

13 minutes ago, HorticulusTGA said:

That's IMO quite well done and I'm looking forward for the rest of the series.

However I really DISLIKE the fact they keep forgetting that the Warcry Warbands were the first attempt - and success - at showing real life, down to earth Humans from different cultures in the Mortal Realms (probably because it isn't the current marketing focus aka selling CoS kits).

Remember : Chaos Barbarians are still the basic human population of the Mortal Realms. They outnumber the Cities folk by a lot. 

The basic human prototypes in AOS were the Darkoath Chieftain and the Excelsior Warpriest from Warhammer Quest : Silver Tower. 

I imagine it's because while those living in the Cities are a minority, they're still what the vast majority of people approaching AoS looking for the "normal human army" will err towards. 

[Copywolf]

As long as the new 'ardboyz have some kind of shield+choppa combo and come in units of 10, I'm fine with them looking like mini brutes because the armor is very Ironjawz but the loadout and size would be enough to tell them apart.

[Asbestress]

10 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

This dude and the new ardboyz will probably still be 32mm bases, so visibly smaller. Shouldn't be tough tough to tell.

In terms of the armor, and the look I am a fan of this guy. But Ironjawz forge their weapons and armor by smashing metal into the right shapes and sizes. Its incredibly crude. Something that would have been good for new ardboyz would've been mostly scavenged armor instead. So instead of having the same armor as the brutes, they'd have scavenged armor that tries to mimic the style. With the narrative reason being the ardboyz aren't strong enough to smash the thick metal into shape nearly as well as brutes.

I think 'Ardboyz having more "sophisticated"/rounded armour fits them better with the whole, strategy and battleline order thing they have going on. They probably hammer with, you know, hammers.

 

1 minute ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I imagine it's because while those living in the Cities are a minority, they're still what the vast majority of people approaching AoS looking for the "normal human army" will err towards. 

And I also wouldn't call half-naked "totally not stereotypical rampaging evil guys juiced up on daemon energies" the "normal human army" of the setting instead of the "random medieval dude with a sword".

[Kitsumy]

hmmmm why seraphon box is 15 euros more expensive than std and cities despite having mostly the same??? ( it has 7€ more than std one but cost 15 higher for whatever reason)

 

on ironjaws side, i would be really sad as ironjaws player.  minis seems great yes. but.... they are new brutes, not ardboys. they are supossed to be a different unit. now they redid an old but different unit into a great locking unit but totally like the other minis on the range.

ill call them the new fireslayers, where everyplace you see in the table only see same brute, brute sligthy different, brute on pig or brute on fat dragon....

they should have be redone with a different design that brutes despite being same orcs

[The Lost Sigmarite]

1 hour ago, Chikout said:

The Gnarlspirit pack aren't in the slaves battletome despite coming out before the battletome. The Shadeborn are also not in the DoK battletome despite coming out at around the same time as the book. 

Also if not Cities, who is going to be in the next starter box? I doubt they'd do Stormcast again. Every faction except for Sons of Behemat  have had an underworlds warband. Most have had two or more. I could see a Nurgle unit as one half but I've no idea about the other. They normally want to have one 'good' faction in the starter and cities feel like the perfect fit. If they don't appear in the lauch box, I would be genuinely surprised if they don't appear in the next season or 2. 

SCE will be in the 4th edition launch box and the starters, I do think... Just like how Marines are in every 40k starter since ever. You have to look at this from a beginner's standpoint : the starter needs to be good guys vs bad guys, easy to paint with just a few colours (which means large smooth surfaces), and ideally have large minis so the beginners can learn to paint without tiring their eyes out. And SCE offer you those big, easy to paint good guys.

Some of you want the starters to change things up and not feature SCE again for the 4th time, because they had it 3 times already... But all of you who say that, you are already seasoned AoS players, you already know the rules and have armies. You are no beginners, which is the target demographic of the starter boxes. And for beginners, who will include people starting their very first wargame, SCE are the best. 

[Kitsumy]

2 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

SCE will be in the 4th edition launch box and the starters, I do think... Just like how Marines are in every 40k starter since ever. You have to look at this from a beginner's standpoint : the starter needs to be good guys vs bad guys, easy to paint with just a few colours (which means large smooth surfaces), and ideally have large minis so the beginners can learn to paint without tiring their eyes out. And SCE offer you those big, easy to paint good guys.

Some of you want the starters to change things up and not feature SCE again for the 4th time, because they had it 3 times already... But all of you who say that, you are already seasoned AoS players, you already know the rules and have armies. You are no beginners, which is the target demographic of the starter boxes. And for beginners, who will include people starting their very first wargame, SCE are the best. 

ooor 4th could be seraphons versus skavens. with seraphon side full of kroxigors and new kroxigors heros!!!!! big minis and easy to paint in tabletop levels( really hard to pro paint then tho). 

[Ganigumo]

10 minutes ago, Copywolf said:

As long as the new 'ardboyz have some kind of shield+choppa combo and come in units of 10, I'm fine with them looking like mini brutes because the armor is very Ironjawz but the loadout and size would be enough to tell them apart.

I'm happy as long as I don't need to care about 2/5 shields anymore.
Played an event over the weekend with 30 ardboyz, and making sure each unit had the right number of shields, needing to pick out the dudes with shields to allocate wounds to, making sure to keep the shield dudes in the back, and actually rolling the 6+ ward saves 1-2 at a time to make sure I didn't roll any extras was a massive PITA.

 

11 minutes ago, Asbestress said:

I think 'Ardboyz having more "sophisticated"/rounded armour fits them better with the whole, strategy and battleline order thing they have going on. They probably hammer with, you know, hammers.

brutes canonically do it bare handed (p29 of the warclans tome).

 

Just now, Kitsumy said:

ooor 4th could be seraphons versus skavens. with seraphon side full of kroxigors and new kroxigors heros!!!!! big minis and easy to paint in tabletop levels( really hard to pro paint then tho). 

Its always all new models in those boxes and kroxigor got a refresh. if it was seraphon it would pretty much have to be skinks.

[Aramis]

 

I liked the ardboyz look of Ironskullz boyz from underworlds.

Do think this looks too similar to a Brute. Particularly these more recent examples:

 

[Asbestress]

16 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

I'm happy as long as I don't need to care about 2/5 shields anymore.
Played an event over the weekend with 30 ardboyz, and making sure each unit had the right number of shields, needing to pick out the dudes with shields to allocate wounds to, making sure to keep the shield dudes in the back, and actually rolling the 6+ ward saves 1-2 at a time to make sure I didn't roll any extras was a massive PITA.

 

brutes canonically do it bare handed (p29 of the warclans tome).

 

Its always all new models in those boxes and kroxigor got a refresh. if it was seraphon it would pretty much have to be skinks.

Sorry, I meant that 'Ardboyz probably don't do it bare-handed, hence the nicer quality.

[Flippy]

37 minutes ago, Kitsumy said:

on ironjaws side, i would be really sad as ironjaws player.  minis seems great yes. but.... they are new brutes, not ardboys. they are supossed to be a different unit. now they redid an old but different unit into a great locking unit but totally like the other minis on the range.

ill call them the new fireslayers, where everyplace you see in the table only see same brute, brute sligthy different, brute on pig or brute on fat dragon....

they should have be redone with a different design that brutes despite being same orcs

IJ should still be far more readable on the tabletop then Fyreslayers, thanks to natural (base) size progression. Ardboyz 32 --> Big Boss hopefully 32 --> Brutes / Warchanter / Shaman 40 --> Megaboss 60.

The army is also very intuitive to understand for any opponent: bigger base = more wounds and harder hits. 

[Jator]

The Big Boss looks neat. I understand the worries about units being to samey, no one wants their army fyreslayered but the differences in size and maybe weapons may help with that.

I'm also happy to see Blood Bowl in the Nova's preview, it's about time they release a new team, Amazons were a year ago already.

[Copywolf]

One thing to keep in mind, an ardboy big boss may be just one step from being a brute or a brute with a more tactical mind in line with previous ardboy lore about them being more like regiments.  Regular ardboyz may be a tad smaller with more orthodox arms for an organized (for an orruk) unit, i.e. choppas shields or spears and shields for an orruk phalanx of sorts.

[sandlemad]

30 minutes ago, Flippy said:

IJ should still be far more readable on the tabletop then Fyreslayers, thanks to natural (base) size progression. Ardboyz 32 --> Big Boss hopefully 32 --> Brutes / Warchanter / Shaman 40 --> Megaboss 60.

The army is also very intuitive to understand for any opponent: bigger base = more wounds and harder hits. 

Yeah, theoretically base size, overall mini size and I guess masks should go a good way towards distinguishing them. It’s the kind of thing that’s quite hard to gauge from a hero version of the ardboys, in fairness.

I do think that ‘the ironjawz look’ isn’t an excuse for having identikit minis, even accepting that the different armour textures between old ardboys and the rest weren’t to everyone’s tastes. An army’s aesthetic should have enough room to allow some variation, e.g. arkanaut crew and grundstok thunderers are both kharadron infantry but are not clones, and are sufficiently distinguished by ornateness as well as gear.

More generally I hope that the ardboys being relatively disciplined spit-and-polish try-hard types is retained in some capacity. It was fun with 40k ork kommandos, it’s fun here.

Edited August 21, 2023 by sandlemad

[Gothmaug]

1 hour ago, Grunbag said:

New ardboyz big boss looks amazing ! 
 

it also confirm that the 2 orruk on sides of the maw grunta are the new ard boyz 

 

Oh glorious days! Ironjawz have not been forgotten about. My fanatical adherence to that army has not been for Naught. 

 

So the next question is.... Individual kits, or all the new stuff locked up in one big box?

 

 

[Ganigumo]

3 minutes ago, Gothmaug said:

Oh glorious days! Ironjawz have not been forgotten about. My fanatical adherence to that army has not been for Naught. 

 

So the next question is.... Individual kits, or all the new stuff locked up in one big box?

 

 

Unless its one of those new tome release boxes I think there'll be too much.
Ardboyz, ardboy boss, and big pig at least. with the rumors of two other kits.
although maybe a box with everything except big pig is possible?

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

1 hour ago, Ganigumo said:

This dude and the new ardboyz will probably still be 32mm bases, so visibly smaller. Shouldn't be tough tough to tell.

In terms of the armor, and the look I am a fan of this guy. But Ironjawz forge their weapons and armor by smashing metal into the right shapes and sizes. Its incredibly crude. Something that would have been good for new ardboyz would've been mostly scavenged armor instead. So instead of having the same armor as the brutes, they'd have scavenged armor that tries to mimic the style. With the narrative reason being the ardboyz aren't strong enough to smash the thick metal into shape nearly as well as brutes.

I think we might be in for a lore update on Ardboys, moving them away from essentially hangers on that are in it for the fighting to fully fledged ironjawz, letting them be the starting point of any would be brute, hence why the armour and weapons are the same as they go through the same forging process of their armour and armaments. We've seen with the snarlfangs that greenskins in AoS are moving away from the rag tag scavenger style army and more organised/uniform in how they go about their wargear. I could be wrong and ardboys remain some pseudo mercenary like addition to an IJ Fist but I can get behind them being just smaller brutes with maybe a stormboy style attitude with doing drills and being more regimented.

[Vasshpit]

13 minutes ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

I think we might be in for a lore update on Ardboys, moving them away from essentially hangers on that are in it for the fighting to fully fledged ironjawz,

I'm hoping for this as well. 

If they are to remain a different breed of orruk I was hoping for a more murknob ardboyz look to tie the two armies together if remaining under one book. 

Also I've never been a fan of the bright yellow but the painter did a fantastic job of muting it down. 

Exciting times head for destro fans. 

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

5 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

I'm hoping for this as well. 

If they are to remain a different breed of orruk I was hoping for a more murknob ardboyz look to tie the two armies together if remaining under one book. 

Also I've never been a fan of the bright yellow but the painter did a fantastic job of muting it down. 

Exciting times head for destro fans. 

That new ironsunz theme is nice, and I hate yellow armies, and I'm an Ork/Orruk fanatic haha! The bits of just bare metal, muted greens and yellow, bit of weathering, really makes him standout. The old Ironsunz scheme was too bright.

[Ejecutor]

2 hours ago, pikachoux said:

Any news about the release of the next Harbingers book?

According to the leaks it would come on late Sept.

[Ejecutor]

1 hour ago, Kitsumy said:

hmmmm why seraphon box is 15 euros more expensive than std and cities despite having mostly the same??? ( it has 7€ more than std one but cost 15 higher for whatever reason)

 

on ironjaws side, i would be really sad as ironjaws player.  minis seems great yes. but.... they are new brutes, not ardboys. they are supossed to be a different unit. now they redid an old but different unit into a great locking unit but totally like the other minis on the range.

ill call them the new fireslayers, where everyplace you see in the table only see same brute, brute sligthy different, brute on pig or brute on fat dragon....

they should have be redone with a different design that brutes despite being same orcs

Very likely it is based on points cost. The CoS one has the least points of all this kind of boxes ever.

[Ejecutor]

1 hour ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

SCE will be in the 4th edition launch box and the starters, I do think... Just like how Marines are in every 40k starter since ever. You have to look at this from a beginner's standpoint : the starter needs to be good guys vs bad guys, easy to paint with just a few colours (which means large smooth surfaces), and ideally have large minis so the beginners can learn to paint without tiring their eyes out. And SCE offer you those big, easy to paint good guys.

Some of you want the starters to change things up and not feature SCE again for the 4th time, because they had it 3 times already... But all of you who say that, you are already seasoned AoS players, you already know the rules and have armies. You are no beginners, which is the target demographic of the starter boxes. And for beginners, who will include people starting their very first wargame, SCE are the best. 

I totally give you your point here, but the key imo is to differentiate between the launching box and the starter sets. Starter sets are for sure for newbies, hence why I get why they have SCE + something, but what about the launching box like Leviathan or Dominion? I don't think they are thought got newbies. They are not available for more than 5 - 10 days in many of the stores, so I can get why some poeple would like to see them out of that kind of boxes, but it is pretty unlikey that we see a different content between the two boxes which, imo, would be the key.