The Rumour Thread

[Snarff]

1 hour ago, Hollow said:

It would free up a lot of creative space within the Orruk faction to explore new avenues for kits under the KB and IJ aesthetic. 

I really don't see how the existence of BS is limiting the creativity for KB and IJ. The only thing limiting them from being expanded is being souped together, with all of them getting fewer and worse rules, lore and models. GW can easily expand the concept of savage mad Orruks without stepping on any other factions toes.

If the existence of Bonesplitterz was truly having a negative impact on the Kruleboyz and the Ironjawz, we would not be seeing the upcoming KB warband and the IJ maw-grunta.

Besides, squatting a faction which had a battletome sets a truly bad precedent for a number of reasons. It means that no faction is safe from squatting. And even more importantly in this case, demonstrates that souping armies together can easily to one of them getting a lot less support and end with them being removed.

Are Bonesplitterz outdated and should they be updated and made to fit AoS better? For sure. Do Skaven, Beasts of Chaos, Flesh Eater Courts (and until very recently) Seraphon also need this? Yes.

Does that mean that those factions should be removed too even though they were previously supported as their own thing? That's not even to mention the numerous smaller factions like Spiderfang, Dispossessed, etc.

Bonesplitterz are easy to make more unique, and GW should do so just like they did with Seraphon and should do with Skaven, BoC and FeC.

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Snarff
spelling

[Gitzdee]

6 hours ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

The "are Bonesplitters gonna dissapear" discussion really reminds me of another one from 1st and early 2nd ed... Back then, a lot of people (including myself) were concerned that Slaanesh was going to dissapear from AoS, because he/she/it/them had been captured by the aelven gods, had no new miniatures in AoS, no battletome and all the Slaanesh rules were 2 pages in the GHB. There was a lot of talks that Slaanesh was too "hardcore" and "adult" for GW's vision for AoS and that it was gonna be cut sooner or later. Cut to a few years later... Slaanesh is the 2nd chaos god in terms of references on sale. 

So yeah I am not worried about Bonesplitters.

Yes this is true. 

As a O&G player i already had many models removed that were fully supported in 1st. Models split into multiple tomes only to get souped again later. 

The problem is the lack of information from GW. CoS had/had the same problem for years now. I always said it was a placeholder tome and it appears i was at least partially right. Things are removed left and right at the moment and few things are still unclear. We have to rely on rumours and likes from a certain tga member to inform us. Im glad i didnt invest in CoS when i wanted to a while back because it would have been for nothing. Time and money isnt a luxury i have anymore now that im a father of a 2 year old. 

I see TOW as new thing that gives GW the chance to shift models between systeems and clean up AoS in the process. I think they would be stupid if they didnt take advantage of this.

Im not saying i want Bonesplitterz (and other factions treated the same way) to be removed or shifted. But it is plausible and that results in me keeping my money in my pocket.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Gitzdee

[Kronos]

12 hours ago, Mutton said:

Playing Warhammer is to expect disappointment with Ogres.

I was about to do a knee ****** reaction and say “Na Uh” but I’m struggling to find a case that says otherwise. Last 10+ Years Ogres have had - A tyrant, a Hunter and a ManEater. That’s it. On a range which is coming up to 2 Decades old. Really bizarre that them and Beastmen just constantly keep getting side stepped.
 

This isn’t a whine or rant* - Im just not sure what the idea is behind letting some of these armies snuff out of interest but somehow still find time and resources to bring WtoW, Necromunda, Heresy, Not Epic, Votann, Blood Bowl, OBR, Nighthaunt (list goes on). I feel sometimes theres too many plates spinning for them. It took, absolutely forever to get round to doing Seraphon, stunning line, beautiful minis that were (to my opinion) due an update from End Times. I hope when Ogres, Beastmen, Cool Dwarfs and Dark Aelfs get a release its as good and substantial as the Seraphon. 
 

 

*But it could be interpreted as a whine or rant 😅

Edited July 7, 2023 by Kronos

[KingBrodd]

Everyone with Harbingers on the cusp of release Ive created a thread for the Lore side of things!! Please be aware there will be Spoilers when using the thread so I recommend only visiting after you have read it!!

[The Lost Sigmarite]

1 hour ago, Gitzdee said:

As a O&G player i already had many models removed that were fully supported in 1st. Models split into multiple tomes only to get souped again later

Even if Gitmob or Greenskinz had a Start Collecting back in 1st, they never had rules beyond their warscrolls. They didn't even have their allegeance abilities, traits and artifacts in the GHB, you had to play them under generic Destruction. Something Bonesplitters never had to do, even in 1st.

[Gitzdee]

4 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Even if Gitmob or Greenskinz had a Start Collecting back in 1st, they never had rules beyond their warscrolls. They didn't even have their allegeance abilities, traits and artifacts in the GHB, you had to play them under generic Destruction. Something Bonesplitters never had to do, even in 1st.

Still the Destruction tome was a book i had to buy for playing AoS. Doesnt mean units are supported.

[Flippy]

1 hour ago, Snarff said:

Besides, squatting a faction which had a battletome sets a truly bad precedent for a number of reasons. It means that no faction is safe from squatting. And even more importantly in this case, demonstrates that souping armies together can easily to one of them getting a lot less support and end with them being removed.

Are Bonesplitterz outdated and should they be updated and made to fit AoS better? For sure. Do Skaven, Beasts of Chaos, Flesh Eater Courts (and until very recently) Seraphon also need this? Yes.

Does that mean that those factions should be removed too even though they were previously supported as their own thing? That's not even to mention the numerous smaller factions like Spiderfang, Dispossessed, etc.

Bonesplitterz are easy to make more unique, and GW should do so just like they did with Seraphon and should do with Skaven, BoC and FeC.

You've touched something very important here, something that emerges from time to time in discussion regarding new factions, souping and squatting. In the long run, no faction is fully safe, but we all feel that some are clearly more important than the others. My gut feeling is that there is a number of quintessential Warhammer armies that will always get full support - and then there are... other armies.

I would say that a full support is pretty much guaranteed for: some version of humans (Empire, CoS, Dawnbringers) & superhumans (SCE), High & Dark Elves, Chaos with 4 gods, Skaven, Lizardmen, Orcs & Goblins, Dwarfs and Undead (usually Vampire Counts). I would also put Wood Elves here in the past - and that would be my mistake.

Every other army, sub-army, faction should be enjoyed while it lasts. Irritating as it may be, Dwarfs can be souped as the identity of KOs and Fyreslayers is nowhere near the difference between Elves. The same goes for various Death factions, IDK, BoC, Ogors...  This is not GW's fault nor merit, but decades of widespread fantasy tropes in action. Then we have niche stuff like Bonesplitterz (no book, currently forgotten by GW), Spiderfang, Dispossessed. And finally dreams of Gitmob, Grotbag Scuttlers, Chorfs.

 

[Swamp Trogg]

Problem is that there is a thematic overlap between Kruleboyz and Bonesplitterz, and the last addition to the formers roster amplifie that. 

Furthermore, GW needs old-school greenskins to expand the starting global roster of TOW. 

 

So, in my opinion, even if the stay in AoS, I have a hard time imagining them expanded. If they have had something more than a Underworld team, I might have a different opinion on the matter. But when you take the closest army in term of position, aka the FeC, their case was quite different: slightly larger roster to begin with, a new character, an anniversary/special edition character, and recently, a warband for Warcry. 

[Hollow]

1 hour ago, Snarff said:

I really don't see how the existence of BS is limiting the creativity for KB and IJ. The only thing limiting them from being expanded is being souped together, with all of them getting fewer and worse rules, lore and models. GW can easily expand the concept of savage mad Orruks without stepping on any other factions toes.

I suppose I am looking at it more from a business point of view. AoS Studio has a finite amount of resources when it comes to supporting kits. That is just a reality. If the choice is maintaining and supporting 6/7 Bonesplitter Kits for the Orruks in AoS or moving them to ToW range (so that they are still available to buy) PLUS having an additional 6/7 replacement Orruk kits in the Kruel Boy and Ironjaws aesthetic, then I think that would be a positive for everyone. It's literally expanding the number of models that can be purchased without creating a scenario where AoS ranges become huge bloated messes. 

Yes. Of course, the AoS studio could do full factions worth of updates for the Bonesplitters. I'm sure they would be great as well. But looking at the game as a whole, is it better for those resources to be spent on maintaining and supporting 3 different types of Orruk? Or bulking out other factions? Remember there is a finite amount of slots. 

[madmac]

7 minutes ago, Swamp Trogg said:

If they have had something more than a Underworld team, I might have a different opinion on the matter.

I've seen this posted a few times now, and I've gotta say, since when are people this down on Underworlds? You know who hasn't gotten an Underworlds team? Any army that was subsequently removed from the game.  If anything it's the other way around, most faction updates are heralded by first getting an underworlds warband playing around with new designs.

[MitGas]

I do think they reference old sales and the general vibe back then for deciding which army to properly support and which one won‘t get proper support. Which is a problem as it self-perpetrates the overall standing of that faction ad infinitum. Few wish to invest in an old range of minis, even if other aspects speak to them… not just because the minis aren‘t as cool as those of other forces but because they know they‘ll get fewer updates/support. So yeah, GW needs to break the cycle and give some lesser-played factions that feel like they’re in limbo big updates or they‘ll never become popular. It‘s a gamble but else they could just axe them right now. If hey don‘t work on let‘s say Fyreslayers, that faction will never have the chance to take off like their cousins, excuse the pun. 

[Snarff]

16 minutes ago, Hollow said:

If the choice is maintaining and supporting 6/7 Bonesplitter Kits for the Orruks in AoS or moving them to ToW range (so that they are still available to buy) PLUS having an additional 6/7 replacement Orruk kits in the Kruel Boy and Ironjaws aesthetic, then I think that would be a positive for everyone. It's literally expanding the number of models that can be purchased without creating a scenario where AoS ranges become huge bloated messes. 

If you completely ignore the Bonesplitterz players (or even Bonesplitterz fans), then it might be a 'positive for everyone'. There's literally no guarantee that squatting Bonesplitterz leads to more IJ and KB too, and they have very different aesthetics and lore from BS that won't suddenly be replicated.

17 minutes ago, Hollow said:

Yes. Of course, the AoS studio could do full factions worth of updates for the Bonesplitters. I'm sure they would be great as well. But looking at the game as a whole, is it better for those resources to be spent on maintaining and supporting 3 different types of Orruk? Or bulking out other factions? Remember there is a finite amount of slots.

So by that logic, why do Lumineth, Idoneth, Daughters of Khaine and Sylvaneth all exist? Shouldn't a few of them get squatted too? Or Fyreslayers and Kharadron, just chuck one in the bin? We already have 3 Chaos Gods, so why not throw out Khorne? Or CoS, we already have Darkoath?

Now imagine that it's your favourite army that's being squatted in favour of sort of similar armies. It's suddenly a lot less positive.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Snarff

[Gitzdee]

Ok lets talk facts. Is there any way to know how well the Hedkrakkas Madmob sold? Maybe compared to other warbands? Or just sales for each AoS army?

[Snarff]

4 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

Ok lets talk facts. Is there any way to know how well the Hedkrakkas Madmob sold? Maybe compared to other warbands? Or just sales for each AoS army?

Unfortunately only GW knows, and online you're only going to find skewed speculation on faction popularity.

[Chikout]

26 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

Ok lets talk facts. Is there any way to know how well the Hedkrakkas Madmob sold? Maybe compared to other warbands? Or just sales for each AoS army?

We can give a little info. Starblood stalkers, Crimson court and Khagras Ravagers all have over 1000 posts on Instagram. Hedrakkas Madmob has less than 100. 

If you search an Instagram hastag they saw under 100, over 100, over 500, over 1000 and over 5000 posts. So the other warbands all have somewhere between 1 and 5 thousand posts. 

If you want to check for yourself you can just search a hastag on Instagram. Obviously this is going to favour people who like to paint rather than play with a warband but it does give you an indication. 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Chikout

[Neverchosen]

1 hour ago, Snarff said:

Unfortunately only GW knows, and online you're only going to find skewed speculation on faction popularity.

Lies and slander, Chaos Dwarves are objectively the most popular faction. My data taken from TGA Rumour thread is as scientific as any sales figures!

Next your going to tell me that Vampirates are not going to be in a starter set with Silent People! Or that the Malerion vs Kurnothi Warcry Set is not being announced any day now...

Leaked Box art for 4th edition:

Edited July 7, 2023 by Neverchosen

[novakai]

It does show the problem with the concept of warclans and merging three distinct armies with their own allegiance ability into one book, it screws the internal balancing and any great way of updating the army equally. Bonesplitterz being the third wheel probably hurts considering that they did have their own battletome before and then like Harliquins they got merge and now any future consistent release (even if it’s a foot hero ) is not likely.

[Clan's Cynic]

So the 'Epic Scale' logo on the Legions Imperialis box has me wondering; how would people feel if in a few years Games Workshop revealed they were working on "Epic Age of Sigmar" in the <8mm scale? Totally different ruleset - Alternating Detachments, Orders, etc - big tiny blocks of infantry and giant monsters the size of an AoS infantryman and up.

From the way battles are often described in AoS, especially early on, it feels like the scope and size would certainly fit the Mortal Realms' larger-than-life aesthetic.

*Lets pretend Warmaster doesn't exist for sake of this discussion.

 

[The Brotherhood of Necros]

Imagine a godbeast the size of, say, Alarielle’s figure, surround by swarms of epic-scale infantry. SO cool! 

[Jator]

21 minutes ago, Clan&#x27;s Cynic said:

So the 'Epic Scale' logo on the Legions Imperialis box has me wondering; how would people feel if in a few years Games Workshop revealed they were working on "Epic Age of Sigmar" in the <8mm scale? Totally different ruleset - Alternating Detachments, Orders, etc - big tiny blocks of infantry and giant monsters the size of an AoS infantryman and up.

From the way battles are often described in AoS, especially early on, it feels like the scope and size would certainly fit the Mortal Realms' larger-than-life aesthetic.

*Lets pretend Warmaster doesn't exist for sake of this discussion.

 

I'd be totally into it. I've beem wanting to try smaller scales for a while. Warmaster is having a little resurgence thanks to 3D print, but still near impossible to find people to play with. Legion Imperialis it's going to be the only safe option in terms of playerbase, but if there was some " fantasy-flavour" version I'd rather take that.

[DinoJon]

2 hours ago, Gitzdee said:

Ok lets talk facts. Is there any way to know how well the Hedkrakkas Madmob sold? Maybe compared to other warbands? Or just sales for each AoS army?

So at my store in the Underworlds section the only thing left in stock have been 6 Hedkrakkas and they been sitting their since release. We generally sell out of all of the new releases when they come out. I think I went heavier on Hedkrakkas because I thought the models were great, so I ordered ~10. 

Obviously my store isnt the same as the rest of the world but we are one of the biggest in the Southeast US especially when it comes to Games Workshop. 

[Neverchosen]

45 minutes ago, Clan&#x27;s Cynic said:

So the 'Epic Scale' logo on the Legions Imperialis box has me wondering; how would people feel if in a few years Games Workshop revealed they were working on "Epic Age of Sigmar" in the <8mm scale? Totally different ruleset - Alternating Detachments, Orders, etc - big tiny blocks of infantry and giant monsters the size of an AoS infantryman and up.

From the way battles are often described in AoS, especially early on, it feels like the scope and size would certainly fit the Mortal Realms' larger-than-life aesthetic.

*Lets pretend Warmaster doesn't exist for sake of this discussion.

 

I am 100 percent down for this if it results in naval battles and halflings that are too small for me to paint. 

[Gitzdee]

11 minutes ago, DinoJon said:

So at my store in the Underworlds section the only thing left in stock have been 6 Hedkrakkas and they been sitting their since release. We generally sell out of all of the new releases when they come out. I think I went heavier on Hedkrakkas because I thought the models were great, so I ordered ~10. 

Obviously my store isnt the same as the rest of the world but we are one of the biggest in the Southeast US especially when it comes to Games Workshop. 

Its sad but i have to agree. Hedkrakka has been available a long time here, its sold out now but that is just recent. 

Dont think its weird though. I dont think a lot of new players choose to play an army with models that are ancient with no signs of new models in the future. 

[Chikout]

What happened to this week's Dawnbringer story? Last week's article said we were getting one. 

[Hollow]

9 hours ago, Snarff said:

If you completely ignore the Bonesplitterz players (or even Bonesplitterz fans), then it might be a 'positive for everyone'. There's literally no guarantee that squatting Bonesplitterz leads to more IJ and KB too, and they have very different aesthetics and lore from BS that won't suddenly be replicated.

That's exactly what I am advocating. Sorry untold legions of Bonesplitters players. You can still use your models. Still, buy the models. Still paint the models. Still read about them in the lore. But they will be sold under the ToW banner rather than the AoS banner. That is literally all I am suggesting. So that they take up slots from ToW studio allotment, to free up space within the AoS range for more new AoS models. 

9 hours ago, Snarff said:

So by that logic, why do Lumineth, Idoneth, Daughters of Khaine and Sylvaneth all exist?

Because Lumineth/Elves are one of the most popular fantasy archetypes? Have been given a NEW AoS identity and have huge room for expansion via Tyrion. Daughters of Khaine have been given a NEW AoS identity and have huge potential for expansion via Malerion and Sylvaneth have been given a NEW AoS identity with huge expansion opportunity via Kurnothi. 

I think it is in the best interest for AoS to keep its ranges, factions and lore tight. I personally think that just continually adding things without the balls to cut stuff makes for a bloated, mixed mess in the long run. We saw it happen with Fantasy and 40k is struggling to maintain 2000+ datasheets. I have said this before, but If I were head of the AoS Studio I would cut the bottom 10/20% "performing" units (in terms of age/sale/gameplay) of every Faction, each edition. They would be retired and moved into either ToW (if they fit) or Legends and go into a MTO rotation. 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Hollow