The Rumour Thread

[Vasshpit]

@Jetlife

Some pretty good points made. The comparison from new to resculpt also needs to be viewed in the long run. Perhaps a new clanrats kit wont sell as well initially as per your valid point but in 5 years or 10 years time new blood will come and they'll want to have a clanrat mob of their own.

As per resculpts the way they're doing it with killteam is promising. The new kroot kit is awesome!! It has tons of options including enough to "replace" the current kroot carnivores kit. I just ordered two from bits and kits. This not only gives insentive to replace but options to play across multiple games. Im hoping to see this same formula applied to warcry. As an example Im a destro / death fan so for me if we saw a "new" spider riders kit with new build options and existing ones to replace the current kit  this just seems like a fantastic bizznezz model. It draws in new fans for a new game line and draws in old collectors because of new options and updated sculpts that can again be played across multiple game systems. 

another example would be a grave guard warcry kit. A ten model band of elite skellies with multiple build options. I'd love some range support in there so maybe classic sword and board, crossbows, and great weapons. Again incentive to buy for old and new alike. 

GW has got to also be aware of and planning something to be able to do combat in the swiftly improving 3d print arena. No idea what they're doing there. 

And the rules, books, etc are changing fast as well. Games like Frostgrave and One Page Rules (you can combine foot heros to units and I absolutely love it) have really started picking up the interest of gamers. Albeit I use GW minis. Free rules! Simple rules! And updated often! I believe this to be the future. 

Bring on some cool "new" resculpted kits across these older beloved factions! Hell, I've never been into ogors as the kits just never did it for me. Beastclaw comes close but still a bit too cartoony imo but I adore the new bloodpelt hunter. If we get a new range of ogeees like THAT, im sold! One new model, ONE, was all it took for them to get an existing customer to jump on board a new army of minis. Except those "new" models are no where in site and I won't be picking up old kits untill I see the rest of or a good chunk brought to that level. This could easily be done with this new killteam/warcry style of releases. Chaos has their fans but when you start to hear even some of them say "ehhh, ease up on the cultists" then maybe its time to listen. 

I do however really think these last few years have messed them up pretty good. Im certain there is tons of things that were supposed to have been released by now. Id even go as far to say Dawnbringers are actually done if not in the 95% range. 

@EccentricCircle 

You may be right about that as well but like any company they probably have plenty of those secret look at these and tell us whatcha think consumer meeting things. 

Whew!! Long text is long. Ha!

Edited September 7, 2022 by Vasshpit

[Jetlife]

5 hours ago, Vasshpit said:

@Jetlife

Some pretty good points made. The comparison from new to resculpt also needs to be viewed in the long run. Perhaps a new clanrats kit wont sell as well initially as per your valid point but in 5 years or 10 years time new blood will come and they'll want to have a clanrat mob of their own.

As per resculpts the way they're doing it with killteam is promising. The new kroot kit is awesome!! It has tons of options including enough to "replace" the current kroot carnivores kit. I just ordered two from bits and kits. This not only gives insentive to replace but options to play across multiple games. Im hoping to see this same formula applied to warcry. As an example Im a destro / death fan so for me if we saw a "new" spider riders kit with new build options and existing ones to replace the current kit  this just seems like a fantastic bizznezz model. It draws in new fans for a new game line and draws in old collectors because of new options and updated sculpts that can again be played across multiple game systems. 

another example would be a grave guard warcry kit. A ten model band of elite skellies with multiple build options. I'd love some range support in there so maybe classic sword and board, crossbows, and great weapons. Again incentive to buy for old and new alike. 

GW has got to also be aware of and planning something to be able to do combat in the swiftly improving 3d print arena. No idea what they're doing there. 

And the rules, books, etc are changing fast as well. Games like Frostgrave and One Page Rules (you can combine foot heros to units and I absolutely love it) have really started picking up the interest of gamers. Albeit I use GW minis. Free rules! Simple rules! And updated often! I believe this to be the future. 

Bring on some cool "new" resculpted kits across these older beloved factions! Hell, I've never been into ogors as the kits just never did it for me. Beastclaw comes close but still a bit too cartoony imo but I adore the new bloodpelt hunter. If we get a new range of ogeees like THAT, im sold! One new model, ONE, was all it took for them to get an existing customer to jump on board a new army of minis. Except those "new" models are no where in site and I won't be picking up old kits untill I see the rest of or a good chunk brought to that level. This could easily be done with this new killteam/warcry style of releases. Chaos has their fans but when you start to hear even some of them say "ehhh, ease up on the cultists" then maybe its time to listen. 

I do however really think these last few years have messed them up pretty good. Im certain there is tons of things that were supposed to have been released by now. Id even go as far to say Dawnbringers are actually done if not in the 95% range. 

@EccentricCircle 

You may be right about that as well but like any company they probably have plenty of those secret look at these and tell us whatcha think consumer meeting things. 

Whew!! Long text is long. Ha!

I agree that redoing some of these armies would help convince people to dive in and start collecting, but GW doesn’t want to wait 5-10 years for a product to hit that hot cycle.
 

Unfortunately, I do think there are armies in the game that do only appeal to smaller audiences. Like Skaven and Ogres. Either you love them or you don’t. I think some of those are more niche compared to say, stormcast, Sylvaneth, and maybe slaves to darkness. 

For me, anything that is fine cast or resin should be replaced immediately. The current trend is they have been replacing models that have become popular amongst third party 3D printers. Popular prints were alternates for Kroak, Belakor and Daemon princes. Those have all been replaced. 
 

I wish GW would release statistics on what armies are purchased the most. Might help paint a better picture of their decisions. 
 

[JerekKruger]

10 hours ago, Mutton said:

I am reminded of how absurd the GW "international tax" on their currency is. If I could buy stuff in the US that cost as much as the stuff discounted in the UK, I'd be buying models left and right.

It's I've of the few occasions where the UK gets his prices compared to the rest of the world. It's a very strange feeling.

[KingBrodd]

Any guesses to when the Sons and Mawtribes Tomes will go up for Preorder?

Im guessing they announce DOT and LRL this weekend for release on the 24th of September.

[Gaz Taylor]

13 hours ago, Gotz said:

sure!

but it's a 2 part 5+ hours interview in spanish... 

If some one is interested I can try to check again for more interesting tidbits (the one about mini reesculpts is the one that stuck). 

 

 

Thanks for that. That’s a monster interview! As I don’t know any Spanish, I’ve tried watching with translated subtitles and I’m still non the wiser. 😭

 

6 hours ago, Jetlife said:

I wish GW would release statistics on what armies are purchased the most. Might help paint a better picture of their decisions. 

Closest you’ll get is the mid and end year investor reports. 
 

Anyway, back to rumours…

[MitGas]

6 hours ago, Jetlife said:

I wish GW would release statistics on what armies are purchased the most. Might help paint a better picture of their decisions. 

Back in the Warhammer days Slaves outsold every other faction combined at the end as far as I know (even before the End Times). I figure they still sell very well although with the mono god forces out, sales probably got divided between them. High Elves were really popular too in WHFB.

With AoS I got absolutely no clue. I'm pretty sure that the armies that get heavily pushed by GW also - totally unexpectedly - sell well. So SC, S2D, LRL will likely be the bread winners currently. At the start I'm sure Khorne was selling well too, later on NH.

[Malakithe]

5 minutes ago, MitGas said:

With AoS I got absolutely no clue. I'm pretty sure that the armies that get heavily pushed by GW also - totally unexpectedly - sell well. So SC, S2D, LRL will likely be the bread winners currently. At the start I'm sure Khorne was selling well too, later on NH.

Im totally sure Fyreslayers are on that best sellers list right?......right?

[Overread]

Another issue is that wargamers are fickle things. Armies that don't get many updates, don't see much overt advertising or attention and don't get many new models often fall to the side even if they are popular. Look at Sisters of Battle or any new/small army that doesn't see attention for a long while. 

It's a cycle that can have a bad feedback element. Army A doesn't sell outstandingly well so GW doesn't invest so Army A sells even worse so GW doesn't invest so Army A sells even worse! 

Smaller armies with limited rosters and limited attention end up in Army A positions. I'm sure things like Fyreslayers, Ossiarchs, Flesheaters, Tau Kroot models and more end up in those kind of slots. Heck Sisters of Battle were there for ages and yet now I'd wager (or hope) they are selling really well. 

 

Heck Old World in itself was a huge display of this same pattern. Dwindling attention leading to dwindling sales leading to dwindling investment etc... 

 

I do wonder if with GW's new massive marketing online if there are not more cost effective ways for them to help market armies that aren't seeing many updates outside of the odd battle report or video. Heck I'm almost certain that just mentioning things on the community pages helps. Look at Forgeworld for AoS. It's down to 1 model per grand alliance with the sole exception being Gloomspite models. Which I recall were the only FW models to get actual marketing display on the community pages when the new battletome for them came out. Almost everything else has been steadily dropped and almost everything else never gets a mention (heck I recall a FB community article on exalted greater demons that didn't even mention the ones FW makes which are technically the official models for exalted greater demons - or at least were at the time)

[Iamanbo]

2 hours ago, Gaz Taylor said:

Thanks for that. That’s a monster interview! As I don’t know any Spanish, I’ve tried watching with translated subtitles and I’m still non the wiser. 😭

 

Closest you’ll get is the mid and end year investor reports. 
 

Anyway, back to rumours…

Hello, do you have a link to the interview in Spanish?

[MitGas]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

Im totally sure Fyreslayers are on that best sellers list right?......right?

Of course, an army based on a singular (if cool) aspect of a formerly varied WHFB army that bloats it up in a quite uncreative way (that's a kind description) and then immediately drops it like hot food with almost less than zero support in sight after it doesn't sell well is the obvious recipe for success! 👍 

I find all these 0.5 armies we got shortly after AoS' launch were a huge mistake. Some like IJ might play well but I like armies that offer choice and would never buy into an army with very few kits personally. They're trying to correct the course there by merging them already anyways but frankly it was obvious this would fail.

Any hyper-focus on themes/forces that only appeal to a part of the fandom is doomed to fail, with the one exception being marines. It's like with Gorkamorka. Amazing game, funny as hell, seriously, funniest GW setting ever but frankly not everyone loves Orks. I'm just waiting for people to become sick of Warcry if the ratio of Chaos cultists to non-Chaos warbands doesn't improve to be honest. 🤷‍♂️

[KingBrodd]

39 minutes ago, MitGas said:

Of course, an army based on a singular (if cool) aspect of a formerly varied WHFB army that bloats it up in a quite uncreative way (that's a kind description) and then immediately drops it like hot food with almost less than zero support in sight after it doesn't sell well is the obvious recipe for success! 👍 

I find all these 0.5 armies we got shortly after AoS' launch were a huge mistake. Some like IJ might play well but I like armies that offer choice and would never buy into an army with very few kits personally. They're trying to correct the course there by merging them already anyways but frankly it was obvious this would fail.

Any hyper-focus on themes/forces that only appeal to a part of the fandom is doomed to fail, with the one exception being marines. It's like with Gorkamorka. Amazing game, funny as hell, seriously, funniest GW setting ever but frankly not everyone loves Orks. I'm just waiting for people to become sick of Warcry if the ratio of Chaos cultists to non-Chaos warbands doesn't improve to be honest. 🤷‍♂️

Im hoping we are done with Chaos Warbands for Warcry. If we always get 10 Warbands 3 are already Chaos, if we are supposed to get the other 3 Gods that leaves only 4 Non Chaos.

[Gaz Taylor]

1 hour ago, Iamanbo said:

Hello, do you have a link to the interview in Spanish?

check this post 😉

[Ganigumo]

15 hours ago, Sahrial said:

Just my 2¢ but I think that underestimates how many people are waiting for an update to start collecting. No, the guy with 60 clanrats probably won’t rush out to buy stuff, but his friend who likes the army but wants newer stuff totally will. Guy number 1, also getting plastic skryre acolytes and updated jezzails? They’d grab those.

Then with Ogors, for example, those are relatively small model count armies, even when running infantry. Almost everyone would snatch up new gluttons, and even yhetees. Ironically i think a butcher hero refresh would have the lease success because so many people have had such success kitbashing them out of spare parts. I don’t know if I’ll ever use the new hunter, but I know one 100% gonna get one. Ogors are starving (pun intended) for an update.

i think BoC is somewhere inbetween.

Gors/ungors/bestigors wouldn’t see traction with an update, but the bullgors? Centigors? Cockatrice? All their monsters? Those are desperately in a state of “shut up and take my money” pending a new release, case in point: the S2D ogroids everyone wants as bullgors.

Just a few updates for each in 2022 sylvaneth sized waves could really bring in some currency.

Something to consider is that the Gitz update only actually replaced 2 kits, the loonboss and the loonboss on great cave squig. Every other kit that was an update was a dual kit with a new unit. Its a good way to update kits if you can make it work, since older players with existing models can buy it and build the new variant.
It wouldn't be tough to replicate that with some of the kits that need updating, like gluttons and bestigors.

[Flippy]

1 hour ago, MitGas said:

I find all these 0.5 armies we got shortly after AoS' launch were a huge mistake. Some like IJ might play well but I like armies that offer choice and would never buy into an army with very few kits personally. They're trying to correct the course there by merging them already anyways but frankly it was obvious this would fail.

Actually the IJ are the ones luckily saved by a combination of factors. The kits are limited, but they are all very distinct (unlike Fyreslayers) and good-looking (not a single weak / old kit here, if you ignore the Ardboys, who are... acceptable). The rules are well-written and in line with the faction's fluff. The centrepiece model is impressive - both visually and in the game. And, last but not least, if you get bored you can expend pretty easily under the Big Waaagh - just a Wurrgog Prophet with a handful of Boltboyz gives you a different experience.

[Beliman]

There are some micro-armies that recieved a second wave, and that's what a lot of this armies are waiting for (Sylvaneth being the last one).

I'm not sure that merging some of them, after working on unique designs and completely diferent background, will be a good end for this armies. 

[Flippy]

4 hours ago, Overread said:

Smaller armies with limited rosters and limited attention end up in Army A positions. I'm sure things like Fyreslayers, Ossiarchs, Flesheaters, Tau Kroot models and more end up in those kind of slots.

The concept seems correct, and both Fyreslayers & Flesheaters are a good illustration of this. I'm not really sure about the Ossiarchs though; these guys are full AoS and still very much fresh with roster to match (or exceed) factions like DoK, Idoneth and KO. I wouldn't worry for them - yet. 

[novakai]

6 hours ago, MitGas said:

Back in the Warhammer days Slaves outsold every other faction combined at the end as far as I know (even before the End Times). I figure they still sell very well although with the mono god forces out, sales probably got divided between them. High Elves were really popular too in WHFB.

With AoS I got absolutely no clue. I'm pretty sure that the armies that get heavily pushed by GW also - totally unexpectedly - sell well. So SC, S2D, LRL will likely be the bread winners currently. At the start I'm sure Khorne was selling well too, later on NH.

apparently, Gitz, Warclanz, Nighthaunt are top sellers along with SCE and Slaves

Dok and Sylvaneath are also fan favorite  armies 

Edited September 8, 2022 by novakai

[MitGas]

1 hour ago, Flippy said:

Actually the IJ are the ones luckily saved by a combination of factors. The kits are limited, but they are all very distinct (unlike Fyreslayers) and good-looking (not a single weak / old kit here, if you ignore the Ardboys, who are... acceptable). The rules are well-written and in line with the faction's fluff. The centrepiece model is impressive - both visually and in the game. And, last but not least, if you get bored you can expend pretty easily under the Big Waaagh - just a Wurrgog Prophet with a handful of Boltboyz gives you a different experience.

Yeah, I'm aware of that and also that most are overall quite happy with the way they play despite the limited range - I still wouldn't buy into them though. In order to save them, they got thrown together with the atrocious old savage orc stuff and the Kruleboyz are different enough to me to feel quite unfitting in a single army (despite liking both styles and ranges) with Ironjawz as while they're their own thing, they're both different and not different enough to look totally harmonious with the other Orruks like e.g. gobbos and trolls are.

Also, GW used to make sure that mixing subfactions sucks. No idea how it is with warclans now (and your post suggests otherwise) but usually it's either/or, so if you wanna field a decent list, you're usually forced into playing very specific combinations. Personally I just see a monument to failed planning in this which is a damn shame. 

[novakai]

4 minutes ago, MitGas said:

Yeah, I'm aware of that and also that most are overall quite happy with the way they play despite the limited range - I still wouldn't buy into them though. In order to save them, they got thrown together with the atrocious old savage orc stuff and the Kruleboyz are different enough to me to feel quite unfitting in a single army (despite liking both styles and ranges) with Ironjawz as while they're their own thing, they're both different and not different enough to look totally harmonious with the other Orruks like e.g. gobbos and trolls are.

Also, GW used to make sure that mixing subfactions sucks. No idea how it is with warclans now (and your post suggests otherwise) but usually it's either/or, so if you wanna field a decent list, you're usually forced into playing very specific combinations. Personally I just see a monument to failed planning in this which is a damn shame. 

I feel like the problem with Big Waagh! that it works well with the majority of Ironjawz units and the other two Armies don't gain as much benefit from being in that allegiance (outside of certain power piece units like the Wurrgog Prophet). rather than being a mixed army it's feel like just another way to play your Ironjawz unit with Orruk allies in it (which you can't do in any of the other Orruk armies for some reason).

[Ganigumo]

6 minutes ago, MitGas said:

Yeah, I'm aware of that and also that most are overall quite happy with the way they play despite the limited range - I still wouldn't buy into them though. In order to save them, they got thrown together with the atrocious old savage orc stuff and the Kruleboyz are different enough to me to feel quite unfitting in a single army (despite liking both styles and ranges) with Ironjawz as while they're their own thing, they're both different and not different enough to look totally harmonious with the other Orruks like e.g. gobbos and trolls are.

Also, GW used to make sure that mixing subfactions sucks. No idea how it is with warclans now (and your post suggests otherwise) but usually it's either/or, so if you wanna field a decent list, you're usually forced into playing very specific combinations. Personally I just see a monument to failed planning in this which is a damn shame. 

The warclans book is 3 armies stapled together, with a single page that lets you play them together.
Each clan has its own completely separate and exclusive allegiance abilities, artefacts, command traits, battle tactics, grand strategies and playstyle.

Going into big Waaagh! has you trade most of the allegiance abilities of the 3 factions (you get to keep Venom Encrusted weapons, Mighty Destroyers, and warpaint). For a new one that gives buffs as you gather Waaagh! points.

Big Waaagh! primarily benefits Ironjawz the most, as they lose the least so most Big Waaagh! lists are just Ironjawz lists that borrow a unit or two from Kruleboyz/Bonesplitterz.

Its not really a soup book in the traditional sense (like cities of sigmar or Mawtribes).

In fact after you read through the Warclans book you can't help but wonder if it was written by 3 different people because the quality of rules varies so vastly between them.

Ironjawz are perfect and somehow improved from their 2e book which was a tall order. The rules are simple but engaging and have depth, plus the units are costed appropriately aggressively for an army with no healing/summoning. Honestly one of the best armies for beginners to get into.

Kruleboyz rules are needlessly complex, there's dissonance between the rules, narrative, and model range, and despite the complexity the rules aren't very engaging or interesting. Stuff feels like it was pointed by playing darts at the pub, and the army is super restricted in listbuilding. Kruleboyz needing some heavy editing and changes to get anywhere near where Ironjawz landed. 

Bonesplitterz are basically 2e bonesplitterz with less rules. There's some changes like the Waaagh! being an armywide 4+ ward, but it felt like they didn't want to bother writing rules for bonesplitterz.

[MitGas]

5 minutes ago, novakai said:

I feel like the problem with Big Waagh! that it works well with the majority of Ironjawz units and the other two Armies don't gain as much benefit from being in that allegiance (outside of certain power piece units like the Wurrgog Prophet). rather than being a mixed army it's feel like just another way to play your Ironjawz unit with Orruk allies in it (which you can't do in any of the other Orruk armies for some reason).

All of you know much more about the details than I do, my mate sticks to IJ only all the time as he‘s not big on mixing them. It‘s a bit boring. I think Orruks are awesome in general (well, the Bonesplitterz sculpts are seriously lagging behind the newer stuff) but they could be easily be even cooler. 

[Vasshpit]

Oh and dont forget you cant even ally in other models in their own book without going big waaagh...

O_o

[Beliman]

8 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

In fact after you read through the Warclans book you can't help but wonder if it was written by 3 different people because the quality of rules varies so vastly between them.

Even if they had a perfect balanced (and powerful) rules, I will still think that's bad for Kruleboyz/Ironjawz/Bonnesplitterz. They don't even have the excuse of "they are old miniatures from another game", like Cities of Sigmar. It's like merging Fyreslayers with KOs or Syvlaneth with Lumineth.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Beliman

[novakai]

3 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Even if they had a perfect balanced (and powerful) rules, I will still think that's bad for Kruleboyz/Ironjawz/Bonnesplitterz. They don't even have the excuse of "they are old miniatures from another game", like Cities of Sigmar. It's like merging Fyreslayers with KOs or Syvlaneth with Lumineth.

it also kind of suck that all three armies could use more minis but given how GW releases stuff, the Orruk army that you play may not necessarily benefit every time Warclans get a release (especially if it's a foot hero release)

[MitGas]

2 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

The warclans book is 3 armies stapled together, with a single page that lets you play them together.
Each clan has its own completely separate and exclusive allegiance abilities, artefacts, command traits, battle tactics, grand strategies and playstyle.

Going into big Waaagh! has you trade most of the allegiance abilities of the 3 factions (you get to keep Venom Encrusted weapons, Mighty Destroyers, and warpaint). For a new one that gives buffs as you gather Waaagh! points.

Big Waaagh! primarily benefits Ironjawz the most, as they lose the least so most Big Waaagh! lists are just Ironjawz lists that borrow a unit or two from Kruleboyz/Bonesplitterz.

Its not really a soup book in the traditional sense (like cities of sigmar or Mawtribes).

In fact after you read through the Warclans book you can't help but wonder if it was written by 3 different people because the quality of rules varies so vastly between them.

Ironjawz are perfect and somehow improved from their 2e book which was a tall order. The rules are simple but engaging and have depth, plus the units are costed appropriately aggressively for an army with no healing/summoning. Honestly one of the best armies for beginners to get into.

Kruleboyz rules are needlessly complex, there's dissonance between the rules, narrative, and model range, and despite the complexity the rules aren't very engaging or interesting. Stuff feels like it was pointed by playing darts at the pub, and the army is super restricted in listbuilding. Kruleboyz needing some heavy editing and changes to get anywhere near where Ironjawz landed. 

Bonesplitterz are basically 2e bonesplitterz with less rules. There's some changes like the Waaagh! being an armywide 4+ ward, but it felt like they didn't want to bother writing rules for bonesplitterz.

Thanks for taking the time to educate me. I feel like my „complaints“ aren‘t too unreasonable then. 😇