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Greyshadow

So, what do we think of the new Contrast paints?

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On 6/4/2019 at 1:38 PM, Weazel said:

Anyone got any insight whether the pigments in Contrast paints are somehow special or is it just the Contrast Medium that does the magic? I guess what I'm asking is, do you think it's possible or even "easy" to mix your own Contrast paints from layer paints and medium when you need some of the rarer colours...? I like the effect but don't really think I need all the colours. I mean they're not cheap but Warhammer isn't cheap anyway so it's a rather moot discussion. More likely I'd face a lack of shelf space for all them pots. :D

The contrast paints have a completely different base medium (the same as the Contrast Medium pot), other paints (layers, washes, base etc) have a completely different medium (the same as Lahmian Medium pots).  The contrast medium loses certain properties when some other liquid is added, so you *might* be able to use an ink or raw pigment with the contrast medium - but it'd be a costly experiment in truth.

1 hour ago, Sadysaneto said:

$7.80 for a 17ml pot of paint.

Nuff said

They're 20ml pots

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Here's another example of what's possible when combining the new paints with other techniques:

 

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Hopefully Witch Elves will still look good with contrast paint. I'm heavily considering getting them since I have about thirty more witch elves to paint, but I am hoping the quality doesn't diminish if I use contrast paint. Anyone else here who has a DoK army thinking about getting contrast paint?

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3 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

The contrast paints have a completely different base medium (the same as the Contrast Medium pot), other paints (layers, washes, base etc) have a completely different medium (the same as Lahmian Medium pots).  The contrast medium loses certain properties when some other liquid is added, so you *might* be able to use an ink or raw pigment with the contrast medium - but it'd be a costly experiment in truth.

They're 20ml pots

Afaik they are 17-18ml pots.

 

Not that being 20ml justifies $7.80 in any way.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

Here's another example of what's possible when combining the new paints with other techniques:

 

Dont get me wrong, but if you need to apply zenithal,  mix paints,  glaze, apply edge highlights, and all the stuff, well  it kinda kills the whole point on contrast line.

 

That said, yeah, it looks like it will be a good glaze option.

 

For $7.80,  a 17ml pot.

Edited by Sadysaneto
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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Sadysaneto said:

Dont get me wrong, but if you need to apply zenithal,  mix paints,  glaze, apply edge highlights, and all the stuff, well  it kinda kills the whole point on contrast line.

Yes and no.
Firstly it shows that they are far more flexible products than just "slap on one thick coat".
Secondly they can teach people how to glaze and wet blend which are more advanced techniques they might not otherwise be exposed to. 
Third, the pro painters are saying that despite them  doing zenithal pre-shading, highlighting, glazing, mixing etc... the new paints still save them heaps of time. 
At the end of the day, even if you just use this to do traditional glazing, and you get the same effect after 2 coats instead of 6 then you've saved a good chuck of time. 
In an earlier post related to that same troll, Richard said that the skin took half the time it normally would despite pre-shading and highlighting. 

Edited by Inquisitorsz
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3 hours ago, Sadysaneto said:

Afaik they are 17-18ml pots.

 

Not that being 20ml justifies $7.80 in any way.

It depends on what you are looking for in a product.  If economic cost of paint is what you want then I would argue that you should never be looking at GW’s paint lines in the first place since they are not the cheapest on the market.  They are not the most expensive either - but low cost is not really a feature of their line.

It seems to me that the niche that the Contrast paint line is intending to fill is general ease of use and time-saving.  There are people who will happily pay a premium for something that is easier to use and also people who will pay a premium for things that save them time.

I am willing to spend money on things that save me time as at my point in life time is easily the most valuable resource that I have.  I have a time-consuming career, a wife, children, a home, and a number of other hobbies that compete for the little spare time that I can dig up.  When I was younger and had less money I was willing to spend more time if I could do things cheaper, but at this stage of my life things are different and I have much more spare money than time.  Everyone’s situation is different and not every product is going to appeal to everyone.  For me, I am willing to pay extra for things that will save me time and tedium and help me spend my spare time doing the things that I enjoy.

I enjoy modeling and painting, but I mainly enjoy that on a handful of special models and not on churning out huge units of chumps.  If this product can help me reduce the time spent but still get results that I am happy with then to me it is money well spent.  Your mileage may vary and that is fine.

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Posted (edited)

For some a bottle of contrast paint will replace buying a base paint, a shade and a layer.  For those people the high price will be worth it.  For those of us with a good paint collection already and who already can paint reasonably quickly, less so.

My hunch is that the contrast medium is a special combination of flow improver, floating medium and drying retarder.  When they cautioned about adding too much water giving tide marks, I was like "that's the same thing decorative painters say about float glazing.  Hmmm..." and as well the nature of float medium in terms of being smooth and liquidy without being runny so you can use it on vertical surfaces sounds a lot like contrast paint largely staying put compared to shades that run and pool more.   I'd be interested in checking out whether or not something like folk art float medium could be substituted for the contrast medium.  I think I'll grab some the next time I'm in Michael's.  One of my gaming buddies plans on getting at least a handful of contrast colours as well as the contrast medium, so I'll be able to compare at one of our regular painting nights.

Edited by Nin Win

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4 hours ago, Sadysaneto said:

Afaik they are 17-18ml pots.

 

Not that being 20ml justifies $7.80 in any way.

=> Yeah. This is going to be a tough sell.

7 minutes ago, Nin Win said:

For some a bottle of contrast paint will replace buying a base paint, a shade and a layer.  For those people the high price will be worth it.  For those of us with a good paint collection already and who already can paint reasonably quickly.

My hunch is that the contrast medium is a special combination of flow improver, floating medium and drying retarder.  

=> If it is, and despite my pricing concerns, the consistency of the product over mixing it from session to session  does help make the product's exorbitant price easier to justify. 

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What I'd like to see is the same troll in the fast way I'd like to speed paint him: 1. Super spray primer, 2. One-coat flesh (carefully at primer edges), 3. One color wood, 4. One color rock, 5. Pick details with layer paints. Would that be a decent paint job?

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+++ MOD HAT +++

Usual disclaimer required folks.  Not everybody is going to be happy with the price of the new paint range, but lets not turn this into lots of posts where we're just repeating the same "I can't justify the price" comment.

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5 hours ago, Sadysaneto said:

Dont get me wrong, but if you need to apply zenithal,  mix paints,  glaze, apply edge highlights, and all the stuff, well  it kinda kills the whole point on contrast line.

What I'd say is that just because the USP of Contrast is "one thick coat", don't read that as the same as that's the only thing they can be used for.

Ultimately it completely depends on what you're painting "for" how useful Contrast paints are going to be.  If you're doing a miniature as a display or competitive piece, then you're more likely to be using zenithal pre-shading, glazes, highlights and other techniques - likely going back and forth until you get that piece right.  Of you're painting a unit to go into a 2000 point army then you're not going to be doing that and much more likely to be looking at Contrast paints as a quick way of getting some colours onto your models.  Ultimately the contrast range is just a transparent paint with a different medium.

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1 hour ago, RuneBrush said:

What I'd say is that just because the USP of Contrast is "one thick coat", don't read that as the same as that's the only thing they can be used for.

Ultimately it completely depends on what you're painting "for" how useful Contrast paints are going to be.  If you're doing a miniature as a display or competitive piece, then you're more likely to be using zenithal pre-shading, glazes, highlights and other techniques - likely going back and forth until you get that piece right.  Of you're painting a unit to go into a 2000 point army then you're not going to be doing that and much more likely to be looking at Contrast paints as a quick way of getting some colours onto your models.  Ultimately the contrast range is just a transparent paint with a different medium.

And what i said was that $7.80 for 17ml of paint is ridiculous.

:)

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3 hours ago, Nin Win said:

For some a bottle of contrast paint will replace buying a base paint, a shade and a layer.  For those people the high price will be worth it.  For those of us with a good paint collection already and who already can paint reasonably quickly, less so.

My hunch is that the contrast medium is a special combination of flow improver, floating medium and drying retarder.  When they cautioned about adding too much water giving tide marks, I was like "that's the same thing decorative painters say about float glazing.  Hmmm..." and as well the nature of float medium in terms of being smooth and liquidy without being runny so you can use it on vertical surfaces sounds a lot like contrast paint largely staying put compared to shades that run and pool more.   I'd be interested in checking out whether or not something like folk art float medium could be substituted for the contrast medium.  I think I'll grab some the next time I'm in Michael's.  One of my gaming buddies plans on getting at least a handful of contrast colours as well as the contrast medium, so I'll be able to compare at one of our regular painting nights.

It really does look a lot like ink washes dilluted with flow improver.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, MacDuff said:

What I'd like to see is the same troll in the fast way I'd like to speed paint him: 1. Super spray primer, 2. One-coat flesh (carefully at primer edges), 3. One color wood, 4. One color rock, 5. Pick details with layer paints. Would that be a decent paint job?

There are two of them at the community site :)

 

 

ContrastArmies1-June3-Troggoths8ng.jpg

Edited by Sadysaneto
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Even if it is "just ink washes with medium X" they are still offering a wonderful selection of colours. For me, and probably a few others, price or money is a secondary consideration within the hobby. Saving some of that precious free time is invaluable. That said I'm really looking forward to buying a good helping from the Contrast range.

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See this new contrast paint offer as a new tool. For a (super) large audience.  But I must say that with no skill, you can acheive some great results in a short amount of time.

It's like a hammer: everyone need one. But some people will hit their fingers and others will sculp some art.

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Posted (edited)

For what I have seen so far from the various examples and reviews around, the end result still heavily depends on the painting skills. But it seems that these paints can help anyone, regardless of his/her painting skills, to paint their miniatures at least up to the same level as they usually do., in considerably less time and effort. So non regular painters, people who basically hate to paint, can now achieve a relatively representable painted army, with the least amount of effort, while the pro painters can still get amazing results by combining contrast with other techniques, and still save time (which can be used to for more detail I.e.) 

In addition, I think the contrast paints may as well help the average people to get better results from more advanced techniques. Personally I hope that it will help to improve my blending as they seem to be perfectly fitted for that. For pro painters it may open up all kind new techniques to make small improvements as well.

Time will tell of course, but essentially it is all about time in the first place. So eventually it comes down to the questions: How much can you afford?, and how much are you willing to pay for the extra time? That is a personal choice, the one not better than the other. For me it is pretty simple. I have far more money than time (and I have not much money), but for others that may be different.

Another thing to consider I guess, is what you are about to paint. I think the contrast paints are not as good for large surfaces and plate armor, as it easily shows brush strikes, or uneven flow over the surface. I fully agree with a.o. GeneralZero that they seem to be much better suited for highly detailed organic material. So much depend on the miniatures you like to paint, if the contrast paint is the best choice, and worth the money.

Other considerations are, I think, the pot size and the amount of paint you will need for a single layer, and how much you can dilute it

Speaking about pot size, Where does this 17ml come from? It seems to be an odd number (literally) and apart from that I have seen mostly people assuming 18 ml as that is exact hallway the 12ml and 24 ml pots, which seems a fair assumption. And Runebrush says 20ml. I guess he has the better resources, and when I compare the pictures of the new pots with 24ml  ones, it doesn't seem unlikely either..as they show slightly bigger than 3/4 of the 24ml. But have to admit I am always miles away from winning these "guess how many marbles are in this bowl like competitions". So its probably like 16ml.

Last word on the price. I am still not convinced it is actually that excessive for GW standards. Ok you get 17-20ml for the same price as a 24ml pot of shade. But if you ask me, these paints also have more advantages and possibilities than the average shade, not to mention the time you win (which they say is money too, right?). And also from material perspective...contrast probably holds much more pigment per ml than I,e. a shade, not really surprising that comes with a price as well...but hey, I am not arguing that GW probably tries to get the most out of the hype also.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Lowki
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I still have no interest in painting at all and will pay the same people that paint my tournament armies now to keep on their work but I can see how these are useful if they lower your time commitment to get the same results!

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All this talk about GW paint costs has me interested in the costs of miniature paint lines. Anyone want to put together a ranking of all of them and their costs? (lol, not it). Or is this available somewhere?

From my personal experiences, i.e. not an in-depth analysis taking into account of different outlets and special discounts.

GW paint - All around most expensive miniature paint I've ever come across. I won't complain about their quality though (expect for some of the metallics)

Scale 75- 2nd most expensive paint though it varies depending on specific line. They can cost as much as a GW paint pot but they have more volume so its still cheaper per ml. Special shout out as my favorite brand.

Vallejo-pretty cheap but inconsistent for me since no retailer regularly stocks them in my area so I get all my stuff from Amazon. Special shout out to their metallics.

Army painter- cheapest brand I've encounter though I'm almost always getting it at a discount through a local provider. Probably the worse quality wise but still perfectly acceptable for mini painting.

Reaper- Same has army painter. I haven't bought any in years due to it not being available at the game stores I play at and I don't like it enough to go online.

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1 hour ago, Forrix said:

All this talk about GW paint costs has me interested in the costs of miniature paint lines. Anyone want to put together a ranking of all of them and their costs? (lol, not it). Or is this available somewhere?

From my personal experiences, i.e. not an in-depth analysis taking into account of different outlets and special discounts.

GW paint - All around most expensive miniature paint I've ever come across. I won't complain about their quality though (expect for some of the metallics)

Scale 75- 2nd most expensive paint though it varies depending on specific line. They can cost as much as a GW paint pot but they have more volume so its still cheaper per ml. Special shout out as my favorite brand.

Vallejo-pretty cheap but inconsistent for me since no retailer regularly stocks them in my area so I get all my stuff from Amazon. Special shout out to their metallics.

Army painter- cheapest brand I've encounter though I'm almost always getting it at a discount through a local provider. Probably the worse quality wise but still perfectly acceptable for mini painting.

Reaper- Same has army painter. I haven't bought any in years due to it not being available at the game stores I play at and I don't like it enough to go online.

GW - most expensive in any way you look at it, since it comes with 50% less paint than everyone else (12ml vs 17-18ml). Also, that bottle... Paints are pretty good, tho

Vallejo - IMO, same quality as GW, easier to get (no restrictions on selling), comes with 50% more paint than GW, and in droppers. Washes and metalics, not that good tho. Outside the GW/Warhammer bubble, its by far the most popular paint out there.

Army painter - cheaper than above, somewhat inferior quality, separates like hell, but works like a charm on aribrush, so, you might consider that. Pretty damn good silver metalics and washes that ara as good as gws. (Better, if you dont like too much tint on the base color).  Harder to get by than vallejo, but at least, no restrictions like gw.

REaper- I really cant get used to reaper paints overall, their finish bother me.

P3 - more expensive than vallejo, cheaper than gw, better than both. Too bad the bottle is not a dropper

Scale 75 - The real deal. Hands down the best paint brand i have on my bench. 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, gjnoronh said:

More from Tyler Mengel on his experiences

http://www.mengelminiatures.com/2019/06/contrast-paints-initial-thoughts.html#more

 

I'm generally speaking not as happy with most of my Vallejo paints as some other lines. I know some people like them but I've found them inconsistent.

That was a good read.  Thanks for linking it.

This solidified my interest in the line since I really enjoy highlighting but I find the preceding base coat & shading steps to be fairly tedious.  If these can cut down that tedium and let me spend more time on the parts of painting that I enjoy then to me it is a good product.  It will probably get me to paint more than I currently do.

Edited by Skabnoze

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I put Reaper and Army Painter at the top of my list of paints to recommend for anyone who just wants to paint miniatures for gaming.  Reaper has free shipping to North America at a really low minimum.  One of the reasons I like Reaper is have some of the very first Master Series paints ever made from the very late 90s and early 2000s and they are totally and completely fine. 

The only thing I don't like about them is their new labels are ****** and the names of the paint can rub off too easily.  I've taken to putting a ring of clear tape around every bottle as soon as I get it.  Army Painter has a glob of medium on top of their paint so you have to shake them like mad.  I've taken to adding 10 drops of water and flow improver and an agitator as soon as I get them.

I'd also recommend P3 and Coat D'Arms but lately I've been transferring mine into dropper bottles.

 

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Speaking of old paint still in use - here's a pic from my choices from Purples when I was working on some Blood Bowl Dark Elf stuff.  I've got some of my original 1990 GW paints and plenty of my stuff from the 90's and early 2000s.  Storage  (Upside down in an airtight container for any paint but not inks) and maintenance  (checking paints every now and then adding some medium or water to paints getting too thick) helps a lot!

 

https://twitter.com/Khornelord/status/1136436798509527041

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