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116 Celestant-Prime

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About gjnoronh

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    Dracothian Guard

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  1. gjnoronh

    Competitive Event Game Concessions

    Joe no offense taken bu I think you are way off base. . As noted tournaments are the most common type of 'events' there are others but they are a small minority for whats on offer in the Warhammer world as a whole. I'm using the word interchangeably as there aren't many other options for those who don't live near Adepticon To take your analogy further some folks go to the movies as an excuse to spend time with their friends, some folks go to the movies because they are deeply interested in the plot and connections with other works of film or literature, some are cinematography students looking to learn from a great film makers work, some are using as an excuse to get the family out of the house due to cabin fever, some just to be entertained, some just for an excuse to be in alone the dark with their significant other. The movie theater doesn't really need folks to commit to one or the other thing before they come in, the other patrons probably don't need folks to be on the same page as each other (beyond some standards of minimal behavior), and the movie industry as a whole doesn't care why folks go - except in as much as they try to project what will sell tickets to the average film goer. If someone conducted band practice in a theater it would be an issue but aside from meeting minimum standards of behavior there is a lot of room for differing approaches, desires, and even behaviors in the theater for a movie theater. Most importantly if the movie theater only had the serious students of cinema in the seats - they'd go out of business and we'd have far fewer movie theaters and movies to attend - that analogy is also quite true for the large scale warhammer events we are talking about. Giving good game (fun, polite, competitive, good looking toys) is more important IMO then giving only 'competitive game.' I get more complaints about 'jerks' then I do 'pushovers' from attendees. The former group also tends to generate the most long term stink attached to the word 'tournament.' Adepticon isn't typical - it's the biggest event in the world AFAIK. I run a big event (220-240 registrations) and I'm 1-2 orders of magnitude smaller then Adepticon and don't have remotely the spread of activities to offer they do. But it might be a question philosophically what events are for - in my opinion they are there so the attendees have fun, share their love of Warhammer with others, and hopefully walk away inspired to be better gamers (tactically, painting, or a more fun to play opponent or however else they define that in their mind.) I think for some the only reason to have an event is to determine who is the best tactician. That's not my take but that might shape how people approach this. But then why give an inch on books chosen? I played Beastmen for a good chunk of 8th ed as I was having fun with them, they weren't remotely the most competitive army I owned and could have fielded. The guy who takes Beastmen in 8th for the fun of it is ****** with the competitive curve just as much as the Dark Elf player who is playing drunk all event. The guy who plays the mediocre weak book player first round has an advantage. Of course most tournaments pair on swiss and the guys who are there with softest lists and aren't taking it seriously are usually playing each other by round 2 or so. The system is usually designed to allow folks to eventually find the games at their level of competitiveness. Particularly over the course of more rounds.
  2. gjnoronh

    Competitive Event Game Concessions

    Understood but the issue with AoS tournaments of a certain size is the base rules don't allow for much grading of wins and we don't in most tournaments of a significant size have enough rounds to have a clear undefeated winner. (Which as you note gets to Sleboda's point on playing hard while losing to avoid conceding all bonus points.) So for big events you've got a couple choices either grade wins (see my rules set on first page) from systems derived from objective points, use kill points or bonus points in some way to grade wins/tie break, or have overall winners determined to a larger degree on paint / sports. There isn't a 'right' answer on how events should handle it (just an answer that fits the individual organizers goals) but for me I want to try and give the 'competitive' players as much to play for as possible on the table in terms of determining the overall winners.
  3. gjnoronh

    Competitive Event Game Concessions

    Hey man just to be clear _I_ didn't say that. I was quoting someone else. Please fix post. While I love Sleboda his opinions are his own.
  4. gjnoronh

    Competitive Event Game Concessions

    Joe I agree with much of what you've said but I'll take issue with calling out those who are at tournaments for the 'luz' (fun of it I'm assuming) or with suboptimal lists. There are lots of reasons folks come to events and lots of awards they are competing for. I've definitely show up to events with an army I know isn't that hard but I think gives me the best chance of a painting award because I've hit on a painting and converting theme that I think is just awesome. I've also consciously chosen not to field 'broken' choices from a book that had a reputation as game breakingly unbalanced (Daemons of chaos in 7th ed) because I think it didn't give the kind of games I wanted to have with my opponents. There should be room for all of that in competitive events. And there is room for the player who has a certain set of models and doesn't have the time or money to optimize their list for the changes in the meta or with the most recent army book release. I absolutely agree play hard to the wire and recognize your results effect the placings for the whole room not just your own. But I don't think you have to play 'hard core competitive' lists to be a responsible tournament goer. If we only had those folks in the room we'd have much smaller events. Most importantly try and 'give good game' competitive, polite, pleasant, and nice to look at armies. We're all going to have variance on how well we do with each of those by virtue of our personal skills but we can give it a good shot.
  5. Agreed it was great - and the We are the NEON Coalescence event around it was just awesome as well.
  6. gjnoronh

    Competitive Event Game Concessions

    I've gone back to old fashioned 0-20 scoring for my event (Da Boyz GT in the NE US) to try and give even the losing player something to play for in every round of the game. I didn't think it appeared people were having a fun time when a table handing in their score sheet 20 minutes into the round. People seem to have enjoyed the chance to fight for some points even in a loss. 2018 scenario pool 'draft' here https://docs.google.com/document/d/18-y0A9e_FinflP-jjvCddQfY_K6U2zOT_9MM9TaIXrQ/edit?usp=sharing
  7. gjnoronh

    Age of Sigmar Music?

    Original Conan movie soundtrack. Gladiator movie soundtrack.
  8. Given normal attrition rates - (people just tend to drop out of hobbies over time particularly those easier to manage for young single folks with lots of free time and pocket money) I think we should have a lot less 3rd ed folks around then we do - 3rd and 4th ed weren't any where near as popular as the golden years of WFB sales in 5th-early 7th IMO. So it's not just new start rates - which is why I put it as a secondary concern. Tertiary theory - we are surveying folks on a forum which selects for forum users. Old guys are used to talking about Warhammer in forums and news groups so we tend to gravitate to places like this. Younger folks might be using Twitter and FB and even younger people Discord and Whats App etc. Our AoS 2.0 numbers might be low for that reason.
  9. My sense as a guy who has been around a long time (3rd ed) is major edition changes (5th to 6th, 7th to 8th, 8th to AoS 1.0) tend to drive away those who started with an edition and are convinced it is 'the one true and perfect holy grail of rule sets.' With each of those edition changes there were major mechanics changes - the game didn't really play or feel like what it was before that edition. The minor chnages (4th to 5th, 6th to 7th, AoS 1.0 to AoS 2.0) feel like minor refinements of the rules. There is a higher 'forget it I'm done with this game' rate for those who started before the major edition shifts. For 7th to 8th it was roughly 25% of the GT level players in the Northeast US. But if you've gone through a number of previous major edition changes and stuck with it you tend to view the edition changes as less important then the fact the game remains fun even if the rules aren't the same as when you first started. 8th had a huge drop off of 7th ed starters, and AoS of course had another big drop off. The folks starting in 7th/8th didn't survive those two drop offs. But it's also the case based on my impressions that the new starts in 8th and to a lesser extent 7th were down compared to previous editions.
  10. Brian? Gary from Da Boyz here. Need more users submitting data. ELO is a nice system.
  11. I know someone was reporting that many on twitch were asking 'what is warhammer' when it was on the front page.
  12. Third edition (1990) and I've been playing continuously since then. I love this game! My kids are playing Blood Bowl with me (age 8 and 10) my son has completed painting one team and is starting on his second.
  13. gjnoronh

    Canadians for AOS!

    Toronto tournament this weekend https://www.facebook.com/login/?next=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2F732559606842279%2Fpermalink%2F1964787846952776%2F
  14. The old Warhammer Players Society rankings were UK based and included data from all around the world. I don't recall the mechanics but I know it included data from other countries events. Blood Bowl has a very very robust system of data tracking including ELO match ups that can produce all sorts of interesting data https://public.tableau.com/profile/mike.sann0638.davies#!/vizhome/NAFWCRules/RaceGridNumbers https://member.thenaf.net/index.php?module=NAF&type=rankings The key there is having everyone participating in tournament have a single universal ID that carries through all events. And a backbone system for data analysis. ITC has some of that by using email addresses as their unique identifier. But as do others I worry about rankings driven angst and bad behavior. The US WFB scene had some problems just in jockeying in how ETC teams were determined in 7th-8th ed much less the big money ITC stuff. For what it's worth the US Masters for 8th ed was basically born out of that inter regional 'who is on the US ETC team' beef - each region could determine their own system for determining who their best in the region were and the top from each region was invited to the US Masters. That might be a model but I like the standardized WPS/Blood Bowl model. Keep the money out of it and you are more likely to have an event where you aren't going to have bad behavior. We've already seen in the US some very high profile problems with the high stakes ITC 40K events.
  15. gjnoronh

    Events Canada: Warmasters - AoS Team Tournament

    Great guys involved in this event. I can't come as I'm headed to another event same weekend. Team events are tons of fun!