AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Jaskier]

@LeonBox sounds like a lot of bad dice luck, but it's telling that despite whiffing stuff like Shalaxi and some positional misplays that you pulled the win out in the end. 

Yeah @Tizianolol the contesting criteria is so easy to pull off to enable the LoP, he's a must if you run any decent amount of mortals. 

[LeonBox]

Yep, the book is just very strong even if you do make mistakes. A good Euphoric Killers target more than makes up for your opponent refusing temptation dice too — and refusing really hurts them over time. It really is an excellent mechanic no matter how your opponent interacts with it. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by LeonBox

[azdimy]

Got my first game with the new book last night against Seraphon thunderlizzard double bastilladon and I never got this close to win against Seraphon. With old book, i d get tabled and despite the bastilladon hatred for deamons my keeper of secret with shining aegis was actually alive at the end of the game. We tied 21-21 but I ended up losing because I failed the grand strat to tempt a unit 6 times in the game which I don t believe I ll try again. Super fun game when I used to hate playing Seraphon with hedonites. I m very impressed by the book

Edited March 24, 2023 by azdimy

[LeonBox]

11 minutes ago, azdimy said:

Got my first game with the new book last night against Seraphon thunderlizzard double bastilladon and I never got this close to win against Seraphon. With old book, i d get tabled and despite the bastilladon hatred for deamons my keeper of secret with shining aegis was actually alive at the end of the game. We tied 21-21 but I ended up losing because I failed the grand strat to tempt a unit 6 times in the game which I don t believe I ll try again. Super fun game when I used to hate playing Seraphon with hedonites. I m very impressed by the book

That's a shame about your grand strat! How much depravity did you generate, and how was he with accepting/refusing temptation dice? 

[azdimy]

13 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

That's a shame about your grand strat! How much depravity did you generate, and how was he with accepting/refusing temptation dice? 

I got so little depravity that game.

Euhoric killer per turn  got me 0/0/4/0/5 and he took mortal wounds when offered dice except about 6 times? I ended the game with about 30 depravity only. The depravity mechanic is super mqtchup dependent and his list was a real counter to depravity generation while I would have had so much with the old mechqnic 😀. It s a while new army to learn. again

Edited March 24, 2023 by azdimy

[LeonBox]

29 minutes ago, azdimy said:

I got so little depravity that game.

Euhoric killer per turn  got me 0/0/4/0/5 and he took mortal wounds when offered dice except about 6 times? I ended the game with about 30 depravity only. The depravity mechanic is super mqtchup dependent and his list was a real counter to depravity generation while I would have had so much with the old mechqnic 😀. It s a while new army to learn. again

How did you generate so little depravity from EK? Just no decent targets to go into? 

 

[azdimy]

6 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

How did you generate so little depravity from EK? Just no decent targets to go into? 

 

No good target. I completely bounced off the buffed bastilladons and had to make tactical decisions where generating depravity was not the priority over scoring points

[LeonBox]

That's rough. I've been lucky so far I think -- I've had Troggoth Gitz and Sons of Behemat, and both had good options for generating EK. Since I'm finding EK our most important DP generator, I guess it really shuts us down if they're super tough (as in your case). 

[Lucentia]

I'm thinking that this is the list I'll be running in my first game with the new book, not super-optimised, or anything, just playing with the options:

 - Army Faction: Hedonites of Slaanesh
     - Army Type: Godseekers
     - Grand Strategy: Glutton for Depravity
     - Triumph: Indomitable
LEADERS
Lord of Pain (135)**
     - General
     - Command Traits: Speed-chaser
     - Aspects of the Champion:  Stubborn as a Rhinox
Keeper of Secrets (400)***
     - Living Whip
     - Artefacts of Power: Girdle of the Realm-Racer
     - Spells: Flaming Weapon
The Masque (140)***
Shardspeaker of Slaanesh (125)***
     - Artefacts of Power: Arcane Tome
     - Spells: Slothful Stupor
BATTLELINE
Myrmidesh Painbringers (290)*
Symbaresh Twinsouls (280)*
Blissbarb Archers (150)**
OTHER
Blissbarb Seekers (200)**
Slickblade Seekers (200)**
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Mesmerising Mirror (60)
TERRAIN
1 x Fane of Slaanesh (0)
CORE BATTALIONS
*Galletian Veterans
**Battle Regiment
***Command Entourage
     - Magnificent

TOTAL POINTS: 1980/2000
 

I went with the whip on the Keeper over the shield cos I don't have any real screening units, so I'm trusting in the resilience of the twinsouls/painbringers and the extra source of -1 attack might be useful there, even if I'm sweating a little without the aegis.  Potentially Threnody Voicebox might be a better artefact pick over the Girdle for the same reason, but I like the movement flexibility with the Girdle.  It might also be better to move the Arcane Tome onto the LoP and give him Master of Magic, Speed-chaser on him is a bit of a meme, but could be valuable in the endgame when there's not much left.

I could shuffle the battalions around to get lower drops, the second artefact is fairly minor, but I feel like you need Galletian Veterans for the reinforced units, and with four heroes it'd be a four drop minimum anyway, so whatever.  Hopefully the Masque can act as enough deterrence into an unfavourable turn 1.

Obviously I'd have also liked a Lord of Hubris in there somewhere, but I know I won't have one painted in time!

Edited March 24, 2023 by Lucentia

[Jaskier]

We got us a quick little FAQ, it mostly clarifies that Strength of Godhood doesn't stack and fixed Dexcessa's wespon profile misprint. 

[Thor]

Did we clear out how temptation dice works? attacks are calculated once at a time or?

[Thor]

doublepost

Edited March 24, 2023 by Thor

[JackOfBlades]

1 hour ago, Thor said:

Did we clear out how temptation dice works? attacks are calculated once at a time or?

Three ways you can go:

#1 - Ask the opponent ahead of the rolls whether they plan to accept or refuse any temptation. Speeds up the process, but opponents will be against it since it gives them less information to decide with.
#2 - Calculate it one roll at a time. Slows the game, and opponents will still be against it since they want option #3 which is...
#3 - Make combined rolls and decide after theyre done. People playing against Slaanesh will favor this since it's the best option for them while still speeding up the game.

The only thing im sure of is that GW did not or should not intend to slow the game down to one dice roll at a time. I think #2 or #3 is closest to RAW as it stands since the ability triggers when your opponent makes a roll, which they obviously havent made if you ask them ahead of time, and theres nothing that says it cancels the combined attacks rule. But i obviously hope they will FAQ it to #1.

Edited March 24, 2023 by JackOfBlades

[Jaskier]

I'm number 3 all the way. Sure, it's not 100% ideal but I value both my and my opponents time, so I'm going the most user-friendly option every time.

[Unit1126PLL]

Plus it still gives YOU all the information too. Just don't offer a temptation if the unit fully dies or something.

[Lord Veshnakar]

What have your experiences been like so far with the new book regarding opponent experience? Have there been cries of “broken/OP”? I’m seeing it a lot online but my actual opponents (Disciples of Tzeentch and Khorne) have been enjoying our games. Is the book really “S” tier now??

[Jaskier]

Too early to say, though everyone agrees it's a much stronger book. 

[JackOfBlades]

2 hours ago, Unit1126PLL said:

Plus it still gives YOU all the information too. Just don't offer a temptation if the unit fully dies or something.

That's true, why didnt i think of that? doh!

[LeonBox]

6 hours ago, Lord Veshnakar said:

What have your experiences been like so far with the new book regarding opponent experience? Have there been cries of “broken/OP”? I’m seeing it a lot online but my actual opponents (Disciples of Tzeentch and Khorne) have been enjoying our games. Is the book really “S” tier now??

My opponents have both largely enjoyed the experience. It’s not like there isn’t counterplay (refusing temptation dice early and alphaing us being two; magic domination being another) and our debuff stuff can be mitigated by good positioning. 

[Rachmani]

Haven’t played or even mathed out anything really. But from what I read here it appears to be a phenomenal book.

Deep pockets, no obvious duds, super fun mechanics. Can’t wait!

Edited March 26, 2023 by Rachmani

[Enoby]

Going to be trying this hodge-podge list tomorrow vs Sylvaneth:

 

 - Army Faction: Hedonites of Slaanesh
     - Army Type: Invaders
LEADERS
Keeper of Secrets (400)
     - General
     - Command Traits: Best of the Best
     - Shining Aegis
     - Artefacts of Power: Icon of Infinite Excess
     - Spells: Flaming Weapon
Contorted Epitome (190)
     - General
     - Spells: Lash of Slaanesh
Glutos Orscollion (480)*
     - General
     - Spells: Pavane of Slaanesh
Lord of Pain (135)*
     - General
The Masque (140)*
     - General
BATTLELINE
Blissbarb Archers (150)*
Blissbarb Archers (150)*
Myrmidesh Painbringers (145)*
Symbaresh Twinsouls (140)*
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Mesmerising Mirror (60)
CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment
TOTAL POINTS: 1990/2000

[KrispyXIV]

39 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Going to be trying this hodge-podge list tomorrow vs Sylvaneth:

 

 - Army Faction: Hedonites of Slaanesh
     - Army Type: Invaders
LEADERS
Keeper of Secrets (400)
     - General
     - Command Traits: Best of the Best
     - Shining Aegis
     - Artefacts of Power: Icon of Infinite Excess
     - Spells: Flaming Weapon
Contorted Epitome (190)
     - General
     - Spells: Lash of Slaanesh
Glutos Orscollion (480)*
     - General
     - Spells: Pavane of Slaanesh
Lord of Pain (135)*
     - General
The Masque (140)*
     - General
BATTLELINE
Blissbarb Archers (150)*
Blissbarb Archers (150)*
Myrmidesh Painbringers (145)*
Symbaresh Twinsouls (140)*
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Mesmerising Mirror (60)
CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment
TOTAL POINTS: 1990/2000

Are you assuming for this game that unique characters can actually gain the benefits of the Command traits they get from the Heroic Action?  Or just assuming that getting more than 3 deep on Heroic actions is unreliable anyway?

[Enoby]

6 hours ago, KrispyXIV said:

Are you assuming for this game that unique characters can actually gain the benefits of the Command traits they get from the Heroic Action?  Or just assuming that getting more than 3 deep on Heroic actions is unreliable anyway?

I'm running on the assumption that they cannot - I'd rather be pessimistic and be nicely surprised should it turn out otherwise!

[JackOfBlades]

Does anyone know why the wheels of excruciation cost 80 compared to the 60 of the other endless spells? I feel like at best they just do a bit more of what the army already fulfills, damage against units with low saves, no wards and poor magic defense. But i want there to be something i dont know that the designers/you guys know.

Edited March 27, 2023 by JackOfBlades

[Enoby]

3 minutes ago, JackOfBlades said:

Does anyone know why the wheels of excruciation cost 80 compared to the 60 of the other endless spells? I feel like in the best case, they just do a bit more of what the army already does - damage against units with low saves and no wards. But i want there to be something i dont know that the designers/you guys know.

If I were to guess, it's because the wheels can target multiple units by rolling over them, rather than targeting one unit like the visage or staying still like the mirror. Personally I don't think it's worth it as the other two have more useful effects than just tonnes of mortal wounds, but I assume that's where the extra cost comes from.