AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[deumosd]

Thanks for the ideas- might just give that a go -thank you

[fishwaffle2232]

On 3/5/2020 at 7:21 AM, deumosd said:

Hey guys,

 

Been a while since the skaven had a run out but I have a one day tournament coming up and thought I might dust them off for a run out.

Was thinking of the following list:

 

Verminlord Warpseer 

Arch warlock

Warlock engineer

Warlock engineer

20x clan rats

20x clan rats

20x clan rats

6x stormfiend 

3x stormfiends 

Warp lightening cannon

 

Might swap out an engineer for a couple of endless spells.

Anyone think that this will be ok please? 
I just think it will be fun to play.

I don't really see the value in taking 3 engineers, so for starters id drop one (-100). Id also look at dropping the 3 stormfiends simply because unbuffed they are not worth their points and your unit of 6 will be taking the buffs (-260) from here you have some considerations. 

WLC is good for sniping with mortal wounds, but is extremely swingy, too much so for my liking and too much so for a competitive setting. This thing is honestly great or a complete waste of points.

If you want to have ranged sniping output, id be looking at taking the WLC out (-180) and replacing it with jezzails. They are less swingy and can still be effective without buffs, meaning you wont NEED to have an engineer with them. 

With those changes you have 540 points to play with. 6+ jezzails are very good for sniping. Hellpit abomination can be amazing for horde clearing, although I think people are still trying to work out how reliable it is in this role. Plague monks can add some melee threat even post nerf, just not against high armour armies. Or you can looks at adding more clan rats for extra bodies. 

I like the gwendars approach of trying to have 3 threats on the board. It forces the opponent to make hard decisions and means you have more options by not having to rely on one unit and one strategy to get the job done.

Edited March 5, 2020 by fishwaffle2232

[deumosd]

Thanks for the advice- I would love to have put jazels in but unfortunately I will not have them painted in time for the tournament- the hell pit is an interesting idea- might give him a run out as not actually ever used him before!

thanks for the advice 👍🏻

Edited March 5, 2020 by deumosd

[Cosmicsheep]

3 hours ago, fishwaffle2232 said:

I like the gwendars approach of trying to have 3 threats on the board. It forces the opponent to make hard decisions and means you have more options by not having to rely on one unit and one strategy to get the job done.

I also use the  “Gwendar Method” when writing lists. I generally use the 3 battleline units to screen each of the 3 threats.

[Obeisance]

On the new Monk warscroll, Blade and Staff are a combined profile. Does this count as one weapon or two for number of extra attacks?

Also, suggestions for artefacts for a Seer on Bell or Clawlord at low points?

[Gwendar]

Well, I'm glad everyone is liking "my method"... I'm really just trying to get something to counter the meta we're looking at 😅. Having 2 solid shooting units ( 1 of which doesn't need any support) to counter all of the other shooting is nice. The 3rd threat is between Monks and the HPA since Stormvermin are still grossly overcosted... and I like the HPA simply because it also doesn't need any support and is fantastic at counter charging and horde clearing. Again, not to say Monks are bad but I definitely feel bad when I don't get off Death Frenzy. An unharmed HPA charging into a 30-40 block of something will absolutely annihilate it just as well\better than Monks can and it's high rend\damage attacks can do well against elites... but it definitely gets bracketed hard which can be a deterrent against using it.

Many are stilling running the 6 Fiends + 40 Monks but I think it's starting to fall off. We're starting to see more HPA's emerge so I can easily see lists running 40 Monks + HPA + 6 Fiends doing well; I just prefer my Jezzails 😉

Also @Obeisance it's 1 profile so it's "one weapon" and thus is only getting 1 extra attack. As for low points, are we talking 1k or lower?  If you're running a lot of Verminous then maybe Skavenbrew to stack with the Clawlord's +1 attack. I don't think the Verminous artefacts are worth taking, if I'm honest.. another suggestion would be the good ol' Amulet for more CP which you'll need if planning to buff your Clanrats\Stormvermin and keep them from running.

[Obeisance]

4 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Also @Obeisance it's 1 profile so it's "one weapon" and thus is only getting 1 extra attack. As for low points, are we talking 1k or lower?  If you're running a lot of Verminous then maybe Skavenbrew to stack with the Clawlord's +1 attack. I don't think the Verminous artefacts are worth taking, if I'm honest.. another suggestion would be the good ol' Amulet for more CP which you'll need if planning to buff your Clanrats\Stormvermin and keep them from running.

I'm just writing a list for a doubles event this month, to work out what I need to paint. I'm looking at running:

Seer on Bell: Master of Magic, either Death Frenzy or Warpgale.

Warlord: Brutal Fury.

2x 20 Clanrats: Blade.

40 Monks: Staff and Blade. 

2 Warpfire Throwers.

=1000

I had 100pts floating, so Clawlord. I don't need any Warlocks, I guess? Warpfire Throwers because being doubles, people have to spend 2+ core each.. and OBR was the most common army in the last tournament I played in.

Choices? Ghrrystrike or Runeblade for the Warlord. Skavenbrew or 5+ refund command point for the Seer. I don't think SoJ is worth it on the Clawlord.. he can have 6-7 attacks. I mean, I could just take a Corruptor with SoJ instead of both, but I think the Bell is probably more impactful.

 

 

[gronnelg]

@ObeisanceYou're good against hordes with both monks and warpfire throwers.  Heroes and the like with a good save though... A warlock engineer would fill that role nicely with its warplighting spell. Vigourdust injector would also help the monks out. 
If you want to go with the clawlord though, combining brutal fury and things bane is pretty brutal! 
Or Skavenbrew on the bell, to buff the monks.

[Gwendar]

4 hours ago, Obeisance said:

I'm just writing a list for a doubles event this month, to work out what I need to paint. I'm looking at running:

 

I had 100pts floating, so Clawlord. I don't need any Warlocks, I guess? Warpfire Throwers because being doubles, people have to spend 2+ core each.. and OBR was the most common army in the last tournament I played in.

Choices? Ghrrystrike or Runeblade for the Warlord. Skavenbrew or 5+ refund command point for the Seer. I don't think SoJ is worth it on the Clawlord.. he can have 6-7 attacks. I mean, I could just take a Corruptor with SoJ instead of both, but I think the Bell is probably more impactful.

Death Frenzy is a given on the Bell since your b&b is going to be the Monks.. which is also why I think running Skavenbrew could be a good choice to get the most out of them as they'll really need to pull their weight.

And true.. you don't need a Warlock but Gronnelg's suggestion is good; an overcharged (or not) Warp-Lightning can pay off. At the same time, you could potentially get your Clawlord into something squishy and kill it but.. I wouldn't bank on it until it's taken some wounds already. So my money is more on a Warlock Engineer. I think if you had more Clanrats you could justify a Clawlord to buff them, otherwise I wouldn't bother.

[Obeisance]

Yeah, okay. You guys have talked me into a Warlock. I'll probably give him Warplightning Shield and Vigordust.

I have a couple of the old classic ones from when I used to play Skaven back when it was Alessio Calvatore's book to paint.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Obeisance

[Gypsy_Pistolero]

What's everyone's thoughts on msu stormvermin for battleline tax? Possibly viable? Not tournament level or anything but strong ish casual if that's a thing. 

Currently building pure skryre but the long term plan is to mix eshin and skryre so I need a universal battleline however, really not too keen on the idea of 60 clanrats and stormvermin are the same cost for 3x10

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Gypsy_Pistolero said:

What's everyone's thoughts on msu stormvermin for battleline tax? Possibly viable? Not tournament level or anything but strong ish casual if that's a thing. 

Currently building pure skryre but the long term plan is to mix eshin and skryre so I need a universal battleline however, really not too keen on the idea of 60 clanrats and stormvermin are the same cost for 3x10

Fantastic, although they still die very, very easily.

so be careful with them

Edited March 6, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[Gypsy_Pistolero]

Excellent! Should save on the painting time and be cool on the table 😁

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, Gypsy_Pistolero said:

Should save on the painting time

Lets be honest, this is the only thing that really matters 😉

Competitively, my preference is of course on 60 Clanrats over 3x10 Stormvermin. Your heavy hitters are going to be coming from Eshin\Skryre so having screens (of which the Clanrats are better at) helps so the real damage can be dealt from everything else. Again... less painting always wins.

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Gypsy_Pistolero said:

Excellent! Should save on the painting time and be cool on the table 😁

I just noticed that you were talking about 3x 10 units of stormvermins.

well in a fun game there might not be much of a difference.

in a more let’s call it competitive match up 60clanrats will do so much better in their min. size.

Stormvermins really only shine when taken in 40s.

[Coyote]

Took today off, and after several weeks of planning and getting bitz i now have my 15 Stormfiends all created.  

I took all my old metal Rat Ogres and just figured my way through it all.  

Next up will be painting (poorly) and flocking.

The yellow bases are shooters (Ratling Guns and Windlaunchers), Orange are the close combat Shock Gauntlets.

Going to try to field 2x6 and 1x3 with 9 Jezzails, ArchWarlock and Bombadier.  Seems fun so I made it.

[Congratz]

Whats the verdict on Eshin?

anything usefull in there or is it lackluster? Looking for something to fill out my Monks since the nerf...

i’ve been running a Hell pit and i would say its pretty good. Would it be worth it to add a Master Moulder just to give it +D3 Health?

[Cosmicsheep]

1 hour ago, Congratz said:

Whats the verdict on Eshin?

anything usefull in there or is it lackluster? Looking for something to fill out my Monks since the nerf...

i’ve been running a Hell pit and i would say its pretty good. Would it be worth it to add a Master Moulder just to give it +D3 Health?

I always take the Master Moulder, the extra D3 has kept my hellpit alive more times than I can count, and the rerolling 1s isn't too shabby either. If you can spare points, do it 👍

[Gwendar]

3 hours ago, Congratz said:

Whats the verdict on Eshin?

anything usefull in there or is it lackluster? Looking for something to fill out my Monks since the nerf...

i’ve been running a Hell pit and i would say its pretty good. Would it be worth it to add a Master Moulder just to give it +D3 Health?

I agree with Cosmic.. if you have points for one it can't hurt. Generally I don't have points and I don't try to make room for one, but that's just me.

As for Eshin.. lackluster is the correct word. I think 1-2x10 Night Runners at a minimum can be good in the current meta if you have points to spare. They're going to let you push out to create a bigger screen which not only helps with objectives, but to help against fast\deepstriking\teleporting armies of which there are plenty of. To replace Monks though.. eh. 20 Gutter Runners or 40 Night Runners are going to be cheaper but do a fair bit less damage by comparison, even with their shooting. Of course, you would be saving 80 points over them if you went with 20 Gutter Runners which you could put to use elsewhere.. hell, you could run another HPA if you really want to.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Gwendar

[Cosmicsheep]

12 hours ago, Gwendar said:

 1-2x10 Night Runners at a minimum can be good in the current meta if you have points to spare. They're going to let you push out to create a bigger screen

How did I forget that night runners get to move before the battle starts? This is exactly what I need to protect my back line from the high flying Kharadron ships 👍

[Gwendar]

2 games today, both too short to warrant a full batrep, both playing Battle for the Pass. 1st was the Syll'Esske\White Dwarf allegiance and was over T1 after I shot off said model with 9 Jezzails that teleported to be in range. If people don't see this coming and you position Gnawholes well, this can absolutely throw their plans out of loop. After I shot them off he called it; even with a double-turn he wouldn't have been able to clear me off.

2nd game was against Fyreslayers with the player running a list I created for my own Fyreslayers that I'm currently building. I hate blaming dice-rolls, but man.. even with the Auric Hearthguard nearby to help soak wounds I just couldn't kill his heroes when I make 2\6 hits for the Windlaunchers and 4 MW's + 2 hits from the Jezzails. Him being -1 to hit and wound is what really hurt. Stormfiends can clear the HGB blocks of 20 well enough but on a battleplan like this, he had less space to cover and could deathstar a lot heavier. I definitely made some misplays.. but Lords of the Lodge + Forge Brethren is pretty nuts against the current emerging meta which is heavily shooting based.



I will say, I definitely think Night Runners are something to consider. Both games they easily were able to run to where I was going to move the Jezzails and provide a screen for them and ensure an objective capture.

[Icefighter]

Hello, new skaven player here. Im building a 1k list and was wondering what different metas/ways to play there are because i know nothing about skaven I just need something casual and fun to play atm. Thanks!

[Lazaris]

Hi guys!

How do you handle Flesh-eater courts?

I'm struggling a lot against my friend's list, because he can reliable flank me by summoning 20 ghouls + 1 varghulf with his abhorrent archregents, and if he gets a double turn, my clanrats usually get destroyed, then the rest of my army gets massacred right after...

I feel like the only way to survive is to turtle somewhere, hope to avoid a double turn, and shoot things that are coming at me, but then I can't play the objectives (which are capped by terrorgheists or crypt horrors).

Here's the kind of lists I bring in 1750 points:

Allegiance: Skaventide
LEADERS
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
Verminlord Warpseer (320)
- General
- Command Trait : Master of Magic
- Artefact : Suspicious Stone
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- Lore of Ruin : Plague
UNITS
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
6 x Stormfiends (520)
1 x Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

 

[Firefrog]

8 hours ago, Lazaris said:

Hi guys!

How do you handle Flesh-eater courts?

I'm struggling a lot against my friend's list, because he can reliable flank me by summoning 20 ghouls + 1 varghulf with his abhorrent archregents, and if he gets a double turn, my clanrats usually get destroyed, then the rest of my army gets massacred right after...

I feel like the only way to survive is to turtle somewhere, hope to avoid a double turn, and shoot things that are coming at me, but then I can't play the objectives (which are capped by terrorgheists or crypt horrors).

Here's the kind of lists I bring in 1750 points:

Allegiance: Skaventide
LEADERS
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
Verminlord Warpseer (320)
- General
- Command Trait : Master of Magic
- Artefact : Suspicious Stone
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- Lore of Ruin : Plague
UNITS
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
6 x Stormfiends (520)
1 x Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

 

Playing both FEC and Skaven, but never played against FEC as Skaven yet... I know FEC hits fast and hard, but they have no saves. 20 ghouls vs 20 clanrats shouldn't clear the unit of clanrats. Focus all your fire on the terrorgheists from the Stormfiends, with MMWP you should have no problem bringing them down, use the WLC with an overload on a gheist/dragon, I believe you should be able to handle them quite well with the tools we have available.

Place your gnawholes right, pop through em with buffed Stormfiends and annihilate his armies, with MMWP try the charge, they can't really handle aggresive play as they need to be the aggressor.

Also, getting the Dreaded Warpgale off on a Terrogheist is devasting on turn 1, check your range before deploying as FEC will usually always outdeploy us.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Firefrog

[Lazaris]

With the spell for extra attacks, a command point to fight twice, a varghulf courtier, rerolling hits of 1 and a double turn, I suffered 101 attacks that cleared my clanrats, then the guy proceeded to wreck the juicy targets behind the screen.

I did try to charge his ghouls with my stormfiends after gunning down some heroes/monsters, but the clubbing blows are not reliable enough to clear the unit entirely (and then on the next turn he brings back the dead models).

Fun fact: I tried to fight him with another army (Legion of Chaos Ascendant), but whatever I do, the double turn gives him the victory.