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fishwaffle2232

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  1. fishwaffle2232
    @Skreech Verminking just as a final post on the topic, It really does sound like perhaps there are more expectations to play exactly to RAW compared to here. It is unfair to judge you so harshly based on that. My approach, if I was in a similar situation, would be to just play the rules as I believe they should be according to the warscroll. If an opponent informed me that I should not play them that way and they shouldn't actually blow up, id probably chat with a TO. It seems unlikely in this situation, that a TO would come over to force me to play the RAW especially when the RAI is clearly lesser strength. Although, again, this is based off my experience in local tournaments. Anyway it's good to discuss this stuff I think, it shows how differently things can be interprete. It gives new players who might read this thread, a chance to make a decision on how to respond to shady rules writing.
  2. fishwaffle2232
    I wonder if this is because they realise that the wording on doubles in the core book is open to exploit. Either way, it seems like it would be an easy fix, if this is indeed something that people are going to take advantage of. I mean it is stupid that they still get this stuff wrong
  3. fishwaffle2232
    I haven't had to use redmaw, so it didn't come up, but the people who were running ratling guns definitely ran them the way they are described on the warscroll. As for clawlord, I'm also unsure what others were doing. But if I had to play it, I interpret the verminous rule to mean, you choose any of the command traits that would be available to the clawlord, as if it were the general. This overrules the core rule requirement of it needing to be a general to have a command trait. As for the doomwheel, I don't think the intent of the rules is as clear as the case for the ratling gun. My understanding of the rule is that, levitate would allow it to get the mortal wounds, because it has passed over a unit, which means it has met the requirement of rolling doom. It only specifies that you can pass over stuff 3 wounds or less, not that you can't do the mortal wounds. The "in addition", which is the next sentence, specifies what requirements are needed to cause mortals, and as it has passed over something, this meets the requirements. This is certainly something that is quite janky though, and it wouldn't surprise me if this caused an opponent to want clarification of the rule, at which point, I think it would be fair to get a ruling from the TO. I think rules as written, the mortals count, rules as intended is less obvious. The thing with more-more warplead, is that it is very clear on reading the warscroll, how the rule works. It is only when you start to introduce the whole "well technically it's not a double as specified in the core rule book" thing, which then gets the TO called over, because your opponent will be like "dude come on, that's not how the rule works". Then you are in a situation where the TO either sticks to their rule on "rules as written", if that is how it is in your area, or they rule how it should be ruled, which is that the weapon team blows up on any roll that has two dice showing the same result. In this scenario though, you have cornered the TO into a pretty ****** situation, where it is clear how the rule should be played, but you have used a rules technicality to get an unfair edge with a very cheaply pointed unit, which is pointed that way because of its risk vs reward attributes. Now this is where it comes down to the individual player. DO you want to win at all costs, despite the negative experience this COULD create for the TO and the player? Or do you acknowledge that it is poor rules writing and choose to play how it is clearly intended and share a laugh with your opponent when you roll 4 1s on your overcharge, blowing yourself up. Or even better roll 4 6s and laugh, as both your units blow up. This is the best part of skryre, in my opinion. You sit back and blast your opponent away, but at the same time you blow yourself up, it takes away the negativity that shooting armies often cause. At the end of the day when I think about this hobby, it's about both players having fun. I always try to win, but I would never go so far as what you are suggesting. That's my take on it though, and you might not feel the same way about that. I certainly understand that people take this hobby much more seriously than I do, but given the type of fun lists you like to run, at least the ones you share, and the your mostly good takes on the many fun aspects of the army, it surprises me that you opt for the power play in this scenario and that you encourage others to do so too.
  4. fishwaffle2232
    Whilst I appreciate the time taken to write the long response. To me this only furthers my point about rules lawyering. It is so obvious how the rule works by reading the ratling gun warscroll and using a technicality from the core rules to completley void the rule is a bit ridiculous. I still don't believe any decent tournament organiser would not allow this. As far as I'm concerned, if someone is intentionally using an exploit to get an advantage in a game of toy soldiers, they are also intentionally doing something that has the potential to ruin their opponents enjoyment of the game. Whether you are playing in a tournament or playing a game with a mate in your garage, enjoyment is what this hobby is about. So whilst understand your logic behind the rule, I'm not arguing that the rule wasn't poorly written, I still think it is wrong to play it the way you are encouraging others to play it. It's a shame that people feel the need to win at the cost of being a good sport. I want to play the way I want other to play against me. I'm from Australia and such rules lawyering would not get very far in the tournament setting. A lot of players go to tournaments to try and win it, but most go to enjoy a few games of warhammer. Again I appreciate the long response. I just want to express my opinion on the matter, so that others may make a decision about the type of player they want to be.
  5. fishwaffle2232
    Or don't intentionally play the rules wrong and instead, respect your opponent regardless of whether or not they are a "tournament player". You have a lot of good takes in this forum, but your interpretation on the overcharge rule, is rules lawyering at best and at worst it is outright cheating. A double is two dice that have the same result, if there are any two dice which share a result when you roll 4 dice, that is a double and the ratling guns are dead. I don't think you should be encouraging people to use shady tactics, especially when a lot of new players come to this forum for advice and to learn about how to play skaven. By all means, run a stack of ratling guns, but play them the way they are meant to be played not how you want them to be played.
  6. fishwaffle2232
    Interesting list, but I don't love the big block of stormfiends without protection. I feel like without sufficient screening, unless that is how you plan on using your eshin, the stormfiends will get charged and have their shooting shut down. I mean you could just use one of the eshin units to screen, but at that point, you might just be better off with a unit of clanrats.
  7. fishwaffle2232
    Haha fair enough, I never played skaven in fantasy so i'm unsure what their rules used to be like. I personally think the rules are pretty fluffy, at least enough for me to have a stack of fun with the narrative side of my paths to glory warband. Yea you should definitely check out the podcast. He quite often has a different take on the community consensus, and he seems to be able to back it up with performance. One such take, is that Thanquol with projectors is a trap, and even more so if you take the boat. I must admit that I never had problems running Thanquol as melee, its nice to hear his explanation for why he likes it and why it is an auto include in his lists atm. This is the podcast for reference: https://soundcloud.com/user-583885206/episode-52-rune-axe-2022?utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing
  8. fishwaffle2232
    Haha I'm not new to skaven, been kicking around here for a while even if I don't post often. Skaven definitely can be competitive, if played right. I suggest you have listen to the new mortally wounded podcast, which had Dan Brewer in it talking about his recent 5-0 performance in an australian teams event. This is a bloke who consistently plays very well with skaven in comps in Aus and had a great educational video on how to use clanrat movement efficiently. I'm not trying to play to that level by any means 😛, but I will be pushing myself to do the best i can with the list, so that i can use it for any tournaments I hopefully play in this season (hopefully!).
  9. fishwaffle2232
    Hard to please some. I think the new tome is great, most of the units that needed some love got a nice little bump and most things are playable, with no one list being an obvious choice. I've got a game coming up this weekend against my mates beastclaw raiders. Going to try something a bit fun, but still something I think I should be able to pull a win off with. I have split the gutter runners into 2x 5, which I know isn't ideal, but it allows me to fill out the sharpshooters battalion. I had initially intended to play my 3 doomwheel and always 3 clawsteps ahead list, but I feel like it wouldn't be as much fun when there arent hordes of things to run over the top of. It won't be a particularly competitive game, we usually play paths to glory, but we will both be trying to win. Hopefully i'll be reporting back with a victory!
  10. fishwaffle2232
    @SevenXes Skaven generally aren't the top when it comes to winning tournaments, but it really depends how you play them. I think there are some pretty strong lists that lean heavily into our most efficient and reliable models, which at the moment are stormfiends, Thanquol, plague censer bearers. Even playing with a super competitive list, you will probably find that other armies just do it better. On the whole win rate thing, when looking at the meta stats. I would be careful with how you interpret this. Skaven has always been an army where people tend to play them for what they like, and in general you will very rarely see two people running the exact same lists. I think for this reason there is a lot of variance in the type of players you see taking them to tournaments, which almost certainly has an impact on their win rate. If you arent particularly keen on winning tournaments but you would like an army where you might win say 2-3/5 games, then I think that is very doable with skaven, and you will have a fun time doing it. Particularly if you throw some of our fun high risk to reward stuff, like warplightning cannons, ratling guns, or doomwheels. As the others have said, Stormfiends are great, but they are pretty straight forward. keep them near a warlock for buffs, and go to town on shooting. If you are getting the starter boxes, they are a great unit to have. I personally think they look cool as hell, and they are only boring when you compare them to our other fun and quirky units that I mentioned above. I have been playing skaven for about 5 years now, and I still havent gotten bored with them. There are many different play styles that are afforded to us, due to the size of our book. I think they are a great pick if you want to play something that is fun to play with and against.
  11. fishwaffle2232
    Well I don't think it is a huge downside spending points on the warpseer, as I think he isn't too bad with his leadership aura and his casting. He is probabaly on the expensive side, even after the small discount, but as I have mentioned in a previous post, I think dreaded warpgale is still a fantastic spell, and with master of magic, the warpseer has a better chance of getting it off. I definitely can't justify taking 3 greyseers on foot, as I think they end up not doing much for their points, whereas the warpseer is hitty enough to still get some work done. As far as I understand, three clawsteps ahead hasn't been nerfed, its just been clarified, as I think people were getting the rule wrong. I personally never played it where you were able to use the first charge roll with modifiers. As is though, being able to guarantee a charge a roll value for your entire army, is pretty good if you get a good first roll and if you don't roll well, you still can still roll for the rest of your army if you charge value won't be high enough. When I get home from work i'll post the list i'm thinking of. But basically I will be taking 20 stormvermin with a clawlord, in addition to the 3 doomwheels and the eshin underworlds warband. This still gives me a relatively effective hammer with the SV, who can also receive deathfrenzy. The eshin warband should work nicely to support the doomwheels or to just go off hunting low wound heroes or artillery. Don't get me wrong, i'm not promoting this as a world beater, but I certainly think it could do well in some mid and bottom table matchups. It would definitely be fine for non competitive games. But lets face it, we all just want excuses to run our doomwheels, and I think the three clawsteps ahead rule gives a buff to doomwheels and the efficiency of the buff increases as the number of doomwheels increases. Unfortunately my only test game was against beastclaw, which is a terrible matchup, given that we can't roll over things, except for the the levitating doomwheel cracking into skulls. I did like the way the army played though, and the three clawsteps rule wasn't as janky as I thought it would be. EDIT: Rules correction on three clawsteps.
  12. fishwaffle2232
    Sorry, the plague furnace. For some reason GW decided to remove battleshock immunity from the screaming bell, but the plague furnace got to keep it. Doomwheels are still unreliable, but thanks to the masterclan special rule they can potentially dish out a decent amount of mortal wounds. If you take 3 masterclan units or warpseer (counts as masterclan) and 1 other masterclan, then you get a rule which allows all of your eligible units to make an extra pile in move, after the first unit has piled in. This is GREAT for doomwheels, because a pile in move is still a move, which would allow you to trigger the mortal wound damage for finishing within 1 inch of an enemy. This means that you can do mortal wounds from your movement, charge, 1st pile in and 2nd pile in. Thats potentially 4d3 mortals per doomwheel, on top of whatever they can do in shooting and combat. Not overpowered, but a lot of fun and its a good excuse to run multiple doomwheels.
  13. fishwaffle2232
    Yes you can use each gnawhole once per turn, which makes them a lot better, but they are much easier for your opponent to block now, as the opponent only needs to be within 3 inches to completely shut that gnawhole down. Throwing your cannons through a gnawhole is probably not the best idea, as you won't be able to overcharge them with the engineer, also you leave them very exposed. Doomwheels are a decent option to put through gnawholes, as they can work pretty independently. Bell of Doom is decent, but it's very unreliable and most opponents will be able to dispell it pretty easily, due to it's low casting requirement. The furnace is our best option for battleshock immunity bubble now.
  14. fishwaffle2232
    I like it, I've actually got a list very similar, that I am yet to play with. I opted for a Warp seer instead of the extra 2 greyseers, to still get the extra pile in for the doomwheels. I know he isn't absolutely fantastic at his points, but if you give him master of magic, being able to reroll for dreaded warpgale is still very strong for mortal wound output and slowing the enemy, and it has a decent reach. The bravery 10 bubble isn't horrible either, even if it is significantly worse than it was last book. Not sure where you cut things, but I think it could potentially give you an extra threat and reliable mortal wound output. Something to consider anyway.
  15. fishwaffle2232
    Fair play to you if you want to try play it that way. If someone tried to play that way against me I would be getting the TO involved straight away. From my experience in the organised events around my area, there is little to no chance that something like this would fly. Flying doomwheels on the other hand, I'm not so sure this is in the same category, I've never seen the levitate trick as being something that is manipulating the rules. I haven't done it, but I agree with the interpretation that it still deals mortals. Plus the mental image of a floating doomwheel cracking a hero in the head, as it flies over them, is a great one.
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