AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion

[ItzMercy]

29 minutes ago, CitizenX said:

And he's backed up by a rainbow of Squig bounderz at the moment. The end result is going to be a tide of killer skittles/easter eggs of doom when the painting is done. 

Post them here! I wanna see

[CitizenX]

3 minutes ago, ItzMercy said:

Post them here! I wanna see

Still super early, but here are the initial 5 for the Path of Glory warband. 

[Skeekrit]

Thanks to @Malakree for the kind words above on my Squigs. It was great to play against another destruction player, even if my numbers caused him difficulty

[mikethefish]

Alright folks,

Now that many players have some experience under their belt, what is the optimal unit size for Spider Riders?  Are they best in larger units, or is a min-unit MSU style approach going to be better?

[Skeekrit]

So I finished 31st at the GT Heat 1 (out of 79 players), with my Gloomspite -- with 3 wins, 1 minor-loss and 1 loss. (no points for minor loss at GW-GT but really happy with the 3 wins, and amazed to qualify for the final.

The list was changed from Sheffield (as I've mentioned above), as Gargants are still rubbish...

• Loonboss, Cunning Plan, Spitefull Prodder
• Fungoid Shaman; Hand of Gork
• Madcap; Itchy Nusiance
• Madcap; Great Green Spite
• 60 Stabbas (Spears)
• 60 Stabbas (Spears)
• 48 Squig Herd
• 48 Squig Herd
• 20 Shootas
• Endless: Mork's Mighty Mushroom, Scuttletide, Quicksilver Swords

I found the army to be much better and consistent than the Sheffield one, although I was glad of the practice offered at Sheffield (in fact it was essential)

Game 1 - Ironjawz - Major Win

Narrow deployment meant that I could clog up the board and the shifting objectives were kind to me. His Foot of Gork did 10 mortal wounds to the Madcap, but I killed him with Scuttletide, and then Spiteful Prodder. Volume of attacks killed one of the Maw-Krushas, and the second one couldn't hold the objectives.

Game 2 - Seraphon - Minor Loss

Places of Power is difficult for my army with 4 Goblins Heroes. We each got to 1 point, after which the Squigs killed 2 of his heroes, leaving just the Slaan. Unfortunately the Slaan killed my heroes as well, and the Fungoid couldn't 'Hand' himself (within 3" of Razordon). The Squigs surronded 2 objectives, and Stabbas surronded the third but he won on VPs. Really close and the best I've played this mission in a while

Game 3 - Mixed Order (Dragon & Dragon Princes) - Major Win

The Dragon & Dragon princes charged on my right flank, and destroyed the Shootas, but also charged the Stabbas. They wore them down whilst the Squigs held the left flank. The Fanatics did 12 wounds on the Dragon in my turn (who then killed them, Shaman, and 40 Stabbas), but I used Quicksilver Swords to clear one of the objectives, and then 'Hand'ed one of Stabba units onto the objective.

Game 4 - Skaven - Major Loss

He took first turn and ran his army forward. I wounded Thanquol with Quicksilver Swords (in Realm of Metal) and moved forward one unit of Stabbas. I released the fanatics who needed a 5" to charge the Stormfiends. I failed (with re-roll)... and the Stormfiends went through my army. (2x 60 Stabbas and Squigs). I failed to bring back a unit with the Shrine and couldn't defend my central objective. Lost all the priorities as well. Happy with how I set it up, but should have concentrated on damaging the Stormfiends with spells once I had killed Thanquol.

Game 5 - Nurgle - Major Win

He pushed up 30 Plaguebearers onto the central objectives and scored an early 5 points. I ran my army up to the centre (no charges) and took the objectives back due to numbers. On my left the Squig Herd was slowly killed by Blight Kings, and he regained the objective, but on the right the BlightKings were overwhelmed with the stabbas and fanatics (-1 to hit was great). In my second turn I cast Hand on Squigs and put them within 9" of his objective (one hero guarding it), but failed the charge. However he couldn't summon enough to stop me, and despite losing priority turn 3, the squigs charged bottom of turn 3, and took his objective. I had too many bodies for him, although with -1 to hit (and sometimes -2) we didn't really kill a lot!

[Skeekrit]

No tournament in the near future, but I'm thinking of dropping the shootas, Loonboss and 1 Madcap and try Skagrott... May change my mind before that of course.

[Malakree]

49 minutes ago, Skeekrit said:

Thanks to @Malakree for the kind words above on my Squigs. It was great to play against another destruction player, even if my numbers caused him difficulty

I was definitely impressed with the Squigs, seeming them in units of that size across the tournament really altered my opinion on them. Once I get a few games in with what I'm initially painting up I'm tempted to try something like this afterwards, I'm not sure a unit of 20 stabbas will be worth that much for how I want to play them and shootas are just garbage. (unless you're blessed by mork and the words "on a 5+" mean "auto-hit" for that game 🤣)

Quote

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Skragrott, The Loonking (220)
- General
Dankhold Troggboss (300)
- Artefact: Ghyrstrike 
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
Madcap Shaman (80)

Battleline
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (320)
6 x Fellwater Troggoths (320)
60 x Stabbas (360)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields
12 x Squig Herd (140)
12 x Squig Herd (140)

Endless Spells
Scuttletide (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 182

 

30 minutes ago, Skeekrit said:

No tournament in the near future, but I'm thinking of dropping the shootas, Loonboss and 1 Madcap and try Skagrott... May change my mind before that of course.

If I had the patience to paint 130 grots and 40 Squigs I would totally try running the the ridiculous 1 drop teleport 60 grots and laugh list hahaha.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz

Leaders
Skragrott, The Loonking (220)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)

Battleline
60 x Stabbas (360)
40 x Stabbas (260)
20 x Stabbas (130)

Units
24 x Squig Herd (280)
5 x Loonsmasha Fanatics (140)
5 x Sporesplatta Fanatics (120)
5 x Sporesplatta Fanatics (120)

Battalions
Skulkmob Horde (160)
Moonclan Skrap (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 193

 

[Saxon]

3 hours ago, Skeekrit said:

No tournament in the near future, but I'm thinking of dropping the shootas, Loonboss and 1 Madcap and try Skagrott... May change my mind before that of course.

Played against Skragrott twice, latent wounds are a pain in the neck to deal with (Da Moon Onna Stikk). With 6 attacks and a 28" range you're going to be able to tag 1 unit a turn for future mortal wounds. Just got to remember your ability! 

[Malakree]

54 minutes ago, Saxon said:

Played against Skragrott twice, latent wounds are a pain in the neck to deal with (Da Moon Onna Stikk). With 6 attacks and a 28" range you're going to be able to tag 1 unit a turn for future mortal wounds. Just got to remember your ability! 

I always refer to it as his hand cannon  The best comparison is a hellblaster volley gun.

Helblaster Volley Gun

• 26" range
• d6 attacks
• 3+/3+/-1/1 
• +1 to hit if within 13"
• Can fire up to 3d6 but risks misfiring and doing nothing
• Adding in the missfires average number of attacks is (3.5)(6.2)(6.7)

Skragrott's Hand Cannon

• 28" range
• 6 attacks
• 3+/3+/-1/1
• RR1's if under the Bad Moon
• Has the Mortal dot tick out of phase.

From a functional perspective he's carrying an artillery piece as his ranged weapon, it's glorious.

[Nickmoss90]

10 hours ago, Saxon said:

Played against Skragrott twice, latent wounds are a pain in the neck to deal with (Da Moon Onna Stikk). With 6 attacks and a 28" range you're going to be able to tag 1 unit a turn for future mortal wounds. Just got to remember your ability! 

I love Skragrott 2nd MVC. I will always try and fit him in every army. Decent castibg and shooting and can control the moon. Done deal.

[Saxon]

36 minutes ago, Nickmoss90 said:

I love Skragrott 2nd MVC. I will always try and fit him in every army. Decent castibg and shooting and can control the moon. Done deal.

I forgot about the moon control. Isn't this  once per game ability? Its a fantastic model for something like 200pts?

[a74xhx]

On a Troggoth heavy list with Skragrott and Trogboss is there a general consensus on who should go as general? Or are both Trogboss and Skragrott worthwhile choices?

[Malakree]

2 hours ago, a74xhx said:

On a Troggoth heavy list with Skragrott and Trogboss is there a general consensus on who should go as general? Or are both Trogboss and Skragrott worthwhile choices?

Either is fine, it depends on how you want to list build. If you go for skragrott then you need 3 battleline choices, when you consider that the strongest Trogg list probably isn't going to be 100% troggs (or even 75%) that becomes way less of an issue. Personally I rate Skragrott even without him being the general, he's fantastic.

• 6 wounds, with a 5+ save and a 4++ save, that makes him one of the most survivable foot heroes in the game. Mortals from 10 Evocators shouldn't kill him.
• His ranged attack is unbelievably good, see above for my rant on why.
• His melee attack is not bad either. It's the same as an Ironjawz Brute if they could have both 4 attacks and a 2" range.
• Both his ranged AND melee will inflict the stacking MW tick.
• 2 Spells/unbinds at a +1 to cast is a really solid wizard stat line.
• His personal spell is a slightly better version of Arcane Bolt. It automatically deals d3 mortals to a target and if you random that 10+ you can disable a heroes artefact! No more Ethereal VLoZD.

Even without the CA/CP generation still a solid choice for any gloomspite army.

[a74xhx]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

Either is fine, it depends on how you want to list build. If you go for skragrott then you need 3 battleline choices, when you consider that the strongest Trogg list probably isn't going to be 100% troggs (or even 75%) that becomes way less of an issue. Personally I rate Skragrott even without him being the general, he's fantastic.

•  6 wounds, with a 5+ save and a 4++ save, that makes him one of the most survivable foot heroes in the game. Mortals from 10 Evocators shouldn't kill him.
•  His ranged attack is unbelievably good, see above for my rant on why.
•  His melee attack is not bad either. It's the same as an Ironjawz Brute if they could have both 4 attacks and a 2" range.
•  Both his ranged AND melee will inflict the stacking MW tick.
•  2 Spells/unbinds at a +1 to cast is a really solid wizard stat line.
•  His personal spell is a slightly better version of Arcane Bolt. It automatically deals d3 mortals to a target and if you random that 10+ you can disable a heroes artefact! No more Ethereal VLoZD.

 Even without the CA/CP generation still a solid choice for any gloomspite army.

Squig Herds and Stabbas seem a sensible way to pad a low body Trogg list, so I guess that doesn't worry me too much.

I think my problem was that I was thinking I'm paying X points for a hero who has special abilities as a General. If I don't have him as a general then I'm wasting some of those points. Maybe a better way of thinking of it is that you cost your units without taking into account the Generals abilities; and you get to choose one set of Generals abilities which is accounted for separately.

Is Skragrott worth 220 for just his shooting, spell and melee? I thinks so. Is Trogboss worth 300 when you take way his battleline and command traits? ...Maybe not, and given I already have Squigs, then maybe a Loonboss on Mangler Squig, or something else, is a better way to spend 300.

[Skabnoze]

On 3/2/2019 at 4:59 PM, a74xhx said:

And the modding starts. At this point I'm not sure if I have a great idea, or if I'll need to buy a new loonshrine.

I was considering picking up 4-6 Loonshrines and doing all sorts of crazy things - including this.  I'll be watching how this works out for you!

If nothing else I was probably going to pick up at least another one and use it as a source of extra mushroom bits.

[ajax_xaja]

Are people not having issues with Squig Herds being lost fast to morale?

I've played against a friend's seraphon's, and after 1 round of shooting from a single bastilodon, I ended up losing more from battleshock than the gun itself. It's probably user error (I think I have too few HQ's for the ignore battleshock command ability), but I'm curious what others are experiencing.

A 60 man blob of stabbas w/ pokin' spears has been the mvp in most games, most of the time my opponents have ignored it due to the sheer amount of grinding it takes to get through it. I haven't actually had a chance to use my loonshrine ability yet.

And what are people typically using command points on? Skagrott generates a ridiculous amount of CP. I guess battleshock immunity?

Edited March 4, 2019 by ajax_xaja

[Skabnoze]

2 hours ago, a74xhx said:

Is Skragrott worth 220 for just his shooting, spell and melee? I thinks so. Is Trogboss worth 300 when you take way his battleline and command traits? ...Maybe not, and given I already have Squigs, then maybe a Loonboss on Mangler Squig, or something else, is a better way to spend 300.

Skragrott's moon-manipulation general command ability is a very good ability.  But, I think it also depends upon your list and general battle plan.  I would say that the moon is least important for Trogg-heavy lists.  The regen ability for Troggs is nice, but you can do without it.  You can get away without the moon for Squig lists as well since the Squig Lure spell somewhat offsets the moon ability.  Spiderfang and Moonclan Grot heavy lists are where the moon really becomes more important in my opinion.  Skragrott's ability to manipulate the moon for one turn can be a huge boon to those lists.  But he brings enough to the table for his relatively cheap cost that even without the moon it is hard not to consider him.

The Troggboss on the other hand is a relatively overpriced model without any extra abilities.  The standard Dankhold Troggoths are arguably overpriced and the only difference is the Troggboss has one extra attack.  But, the general traits and relics can make a very big difference in the performance of the Troggboss.  If you are taking a Troggboss then I think you at least need to give him a relic to justify his cost.  In a troll-heavy list with Skragrott I would probably make the Troggboss the general just to get access to a general trait since I think you can get away without needing the moon-manipulation ability.  A Troggboss with a relic and a general trait is a very different thing from a stock-standard Troggboss.

[Skabnoze]

10 minutes ago, ajax_xaja said:

Are people not having issues with Squig Herds being lost fast to morale?

I've played against a friend's seraphon's, and after 1 round of shooting from a single bastilodon, I ended up losing more from battleshock than the gun itself. It's probably user error (I think I have too few HQ's for the ignore battleshock command ability), but I'm curious what others are experiencing.

A 60 man blob of stabbas w/ pokin' spears has been the mvp in most games, most of the time my opponents have ignored it due to the sheer amount of grinding it takes to get through it. I haven't actually had a chance to use my loonshrine ability yet.

And what are people typically using command points on? Skagrott generates a ridiculous amount of CP. I guess battleshock immunity?

The Loonshrine has a 12" bubble of battleshock immunity.  So with some good planning and placement you can give yourself a good bubble on the table for a lot of your forces to fight within.  From there you will basically want to have a nearby hero to keep big units of squigs from running.  Small min-sized units are cheap enough that you can probably just deal with the squigs running away since they are somewhat throw-away chaff units anyways.

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

16 minutes ago, ajax_xaja said:

Are people not having issues with Squig Herds being lost fast to morale?

I've played against a friend's seraphon's, and after 1 round of shooting from a single bastilodon, I ended up losing more from battleshock than the gun itself. It's probably user error (I think I have too few HQ's for the ignore battleshock command ability), but I'm curious what others are experiencing.

A 60 man blob of stabbas w/ pokin' spears has been the mvp in most games, most of the time my opponents have ignored it due to the sheer amount of grinding it takes to get through it. I haven't actually had a chance to use my loonshrine ability yet.

And what are people typically using command points on? Skagrott generates a ridiculous amount of CP. I guess battleshock immunity?

ALso to add aren’t squigs multiple wounds? I have found (in my playtesting with a savage orruk list) that multiple wound models are somewhat less effected by morale in small damage intervals (of course you will reach a certain number of casualties where you are losing more compared to a one wound unit due to every model fleeing being two wounds)

so in really big hordes where size will increase their bravery (and maybe the herders do that too?) they may be braver then you think 

a unit of bravery three troops at one wound take 3 wounds so lose 6.5 models on average that turn

a unit of bravery three troops at two wounds lose an average of 2.5 models with the same amount of damage which is 5 wounds compared to 6.5 wounds worth (so it’s not a big difference since they suck with bravery but it helps a tad, plus with size bonus to bravery maybe it’ll help more)

[Skabnoze]

There are also some bravery buff aura abilities in the army to consider - such as the ability of the Troggboss and Dankhold Troggoths.  I would not advocate solely to bring them for this purpose, but every little extra bit of bravery can matter and while those units are probably a bit overpriced for what they do they are still not bad units.

[Skeekrit]

At the Heat 2 I had Cunning Plan, which guaranteed a Command Point turn 1 even when I was given 2nd turn (as happened most of the time). I either deployed both squigs within 12" of the Loonshrine, or ensured they were with 6" of one of the Wizards on a flank.

I then would pile in, and remove casualties to either keep the battleshock immunity, or deliberately lose it. Once you're near the enemy the 4+ MW from fleeing is a nice bonus if you don't have characters nearby or if the enemy has a lot of armour.

[Skabnoze]

33 minutes ago, Skeekrit said:

At the Heat 2 I had Cunning Plan, which guaranteed a Command Point turn 1 even when I was given 2nd turn (as happened most of the time). I either deployed both squigs within 12" of the Loonshrine, or ensured they were with 6" of one of the Wizards on a flank.

That is interesting.  I admit that I put both of the command traits (Loonboss and Wizard) that do this in the "garbage" bucket.  It is interesting to see an alternate take on these.  I did not consider needing one during the first turn before you generate command points.

[Skeekrit]

It really helped me deploy in a more aggressive manner but maybe this was psychological more than actually needed. I only used the command point once in the five games, one my opponent's turn 1.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Skeekrit
(Missing Comment)

[Nickmoss90]

1 hour ago, Skabnoze said:

The Loonshrine has a 12" bubble of battleshock immunity.  So with some good planning and placement you can give yourself a good bubble on the table for a lot of your forces to fight within.  From there you will basically want to have a nearby hero to keep big units of squigs from running.  Small min-sized units are cheap enough that you can probably just deal with the squigs running away since they are somewhat throw-away chaff units anyways.

Keeping a few hero's close by to units goes along way. Just use a CP and all is good or if it's squigs getting targeted maybe just let them go wild.

My last game I couldn't use the CP fast enough. I had skragrott and a Fungoid.

 

[Skeekrit]

I have now played 10 games and I haven't finished a single game on fewer than 5 command points! Need to find something to spend them on. (1 Fungoid only).