MrZakalwe Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 50 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said: Might be they aren’t native to Azyr? More likely they can’t breed ones big enough to carry 8ft tall Super Soldiers in massive suits of armour Clearly they aren't trying hard enough https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Chaos-Knights-2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Grimwood Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 35 minutes ago, MrZakalwe said: Clearly they aren't trying hard enough https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Chaos-Knights-2016 Probably didn’t bother once they worked out they could ride a Dracoth or a Gryph charger and they don’t really have the warping power of Chaos to help out. I can see the conversation now “Shall we spend 18 generations trying to breed these herbivore, flight, herd animals so they’re big enough or shall we just ride the wingless Dragons that breathe lightning bolts?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 6 hours ago, Ollie Grimwood said: Might be they aren’t native to Azyr? I like this idea. There might not be much in the way of uncorrupted horse stock left in the other realms either after the Age of Chaos. The descendents of the horses Men and Aelves took to Azyr before Sigmar closed the gates might be all that's left available to Order. The same might have happened to dogs, even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebiggesthat Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Maybe the cat thing doesn't photo well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigmar is scottish Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 I can totally see what you mean. there isn't a consistency between chambers and their mounts. I can sort of see where they are going with each chambers mount (except the sacrosanct chamber which has come out of left field) the dragon mounts being the spawn of puff the magic void dragon and that and the gryph chargers as vanguard scouting mounts. Yeah I get that. but I still believe they missed a trick in homogenising everything. They could have had lion mounts and flying lions or lionotaur or whatever. The lion seems to be a running theme though the army. a giant bull legged, flying horned lion would have been pretty sweet. Cooler than that fugly stardrake we got. That the baby dragon mount things look exactly like what they are, blocks of plastic. They are far to square and stiff looking. I like the drconoline things even if they are a bit random and ill wait to pass judgment to see if the space goat is a multipart kit with different options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isrephael Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Cultures within our history frequently employed mythological motifs in their armor and heraldry: medusae, griffons, dragons, etc. Perhaps the lion motif which we see in the Stormcast armor is also part of their own mythology. That is to say, lions are no longer available, but many of the Stormcast remember something through the haze of reforging, a creature that represented courage and power, and which operated in packs. So, even as the memories of actual lions fade, they place the images of them on their armor to evoke the traits of what is now myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still-young Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 54 minutes ago, Isrephael said: Cultures within our history frequently employed mythological motifs in their armor and heraldry: medusae, griffons, dragons, etc. Perhaps the lion motif which we see in the Stormcast armor is also part of their own mythology. That is to say, lions are no longer available, but many of the Stormcast remember something through the haze of reforging, a creature that represented courage and power, and which operated in packs. So, even as the memories of actual lions fade, they place the images of them on their armor to evoke the traits of what is now myth. Actually, I really like that idea. It’s like a mirror of our world. These guys actually have dragons and stuff, but a lion is a mythical creature to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinlvalentine Posted June 28, 2018 Author Share Posted June 28, 2018 59 minutes ago, Isrephael said: Cultures within our history frequently employed mythological motifs in their armor and heraldry: medusae, griffons, dragons, etc. Perhaps the lion motif which we see in the Stormcast armor is also part of their own mythology. That is to say, lions are no longer available, but many of the Stormcast remember something through the haze of reforging, a creature that represented courage and power, and which operated in packs. So, even as the memories of actual lions fade, they place the images of them on their armor to evoke the traits of what is now myth. It's a nice idea, but lions do still exist in the Mortal Realms - they pull elf chariots, for one. https://www.games-workshop.com/en-FI/High-Elf-White-Lion-Chariot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrAiKo Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 +1 for the Tauralon fan camp. As a chaos player this is the first Stormcast mini I would actually buy individually. Actually maybe that last sentence makes more sense than I thought... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 I have to agree with the OP. While I don't feel particularly strongly about it, as a designer the lack of any consistent design philosophy to the Stormcasts' mounts, not even a vague or subtle one, feels unsatisfying. I'd expect there to be at least some subtle element tying them all together. As it stands, a Stormcast army that includes every type of mount probably isn't going to look very cohesive on the tabletop. It would make more sense if different Stormhosts had an affinity with different sorts of beasts, but that doesn't seem to be what they're going for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still-young Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 I don’t see why the beasts of burden need to look similar. It’s hardly like there’s no animals in real life that look a bit weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, Still-young said: I don’t see why the beasts of burden need to look similar. It’s hardly like there’s no animals in real life that look a bit weird. I think different people are coming at this from different angles. Some people are justifying the broad range of beasts it in terms of the lore. Others are justifying it from a real-world historical or zoological reference point (as you have here). It's definitely possible to justify the design choices in these ways, no argument from me there. I, and I believe the OP, are coming at this from a design angle. I'm a designer, so when I see a range of ostensibly connected subject matter (such as a range of miniatures) I instinctively look for the aesthetic details and design philosophy that ties it all together visually. GW are generally excellent at this sort of thing, as you'll know if you've ever watched/read any of their 'Designer's Notes' pieces. But these Stormcast mounts are a head-scratcher for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinlvalentine Posted June 28, 2018 Author Share Posted June 28, 2018 34 minutes ago, Still-young said: I don’t see why the beasts of burden need to look similar. It’s hardly like there’s no animals in real life that look a bit weird. I get where you're coming from, but: a) this isn't real life, it's Age Of Sigmar, and these models are designed first and foremost to look cool, not to be realistic And b) there are weird animals in real life, but they all have their own internal logic (platypuses not withstanding...), and when designing fantasy creatures, ignoring those rules is something you have to do carefully. For example, nothing would ever evolve to look like a Gryph-Charger. Its front legs are bird-like, but its back have hooves. It has a bird's head with feathers, but then the rest of its body is a light-furred mammal. And it has sort of a cat's tail? It's a totally impossible creature. There's nothing wrong with impossible creatures in a fantasy setting, of course, but if the design feels clearly non-natural, it needs to have an aesthetic grounding that justifies that, otherwise for a lot of people it's just going to look like a goofy mix of parts. And particularly I don't understand how 'bizarre chimeric monsters' gels with 'knights in shining armour' as a concept. I should maybe give an example of what would make sense to me as an aesthetic for Stormcast mounts: Let's run with an idea a few people have suggested, just as an example: lions. If the Stormcast cavalry rode massive lions, it would make sense from a design perspective. There's lion iconography in their armour, and lions are traditionally associated with strength and power, but also with nobility and kingship, which fits perfectly with the 'noble knights' concept. For a more outlandish look, they could even be reptilian-like lions, like the Dracolines, to reflect the dragon ties in the backstory (perhaps quills or spines as a mane?), while still embodying those design ideas. For other cavalry in the army, that theme could be extended in a number of different ways. Perhaps every mount in the army is lion-like - larger, flying lions and sleeker, faster lions, etc. Or perhaps the theme could be animals thought of as noble yet powerful - some sort of giant eagle 'thunderbird' would be a good fit. That's just an idea off the top of my head, and I'm not saying it's even particularly good, but it's an example of a unifying, justified aesthetic. To me, something like that would make far more sense than chubby dragons, lizard tigers, horse birds, and snake-goat-pegasi all just mashed into one force at random. I've come to really like Age Of Sigmar's over the top, high fantasy look, but this is one case where I feel like it's just gotten away from GW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 14 hours ago, Jamie the Jasper said: I think different people are coming at this from different angles. Some people are justifying the broad range of beasts it in terms of the lore. Others are justifying it from a real-world historical or zoological reference point (as you have here). It's definitely possible to justify the design choices in these ways, no argument from me there. I, and I believe the OP, are coming at this from a design angle. I'm a designer, so when I see a range of ostensibly connected subject matter (such as a range of miniatures) I instinctively look for the aesthetic approach and design philosophy that ties it all together visually. GW are generally excellent at this sort of thing, as you'll know if you've ever watched/read any of their 'Designer's Notes' pieces. But these Stormcast mounts are a head-scratcher for me. I'm a designer too. Of course it's just an opinion, but I find the Taurolon to be really well made. It's the new fancy mount for the high rank members of a new chamber. They could go for another [Drake-StarDrake-DrakothSomething-Lions with wings-Unicorns-Unicorns with wings-eagle and variants] because they are the typical animals that you take for reference if someone ask for the same type of mount (and don't want to work alot XD). But let's just stop here, and go from one mount to another: -StarDrake is a high rank mount, but in my eyes, it's more of a power-mount, a big monster with a general on top of it. -The Dracoth and Gryph-chargers become a bit meh in comparison of the two big guys (the Tauralon and the StarDrake). Having some factions with the same mounts is fluffy, but not enough cinematic. -Lion with wings, well, it's the second most common cliché when you start the brainstorming. So, something a bit more risky is always apreciated for the company (copyright) and for the players (at least, in my eyes XD). -Unicorn/Pegasus/horse with modifications: The other classic mount for the white knights/paladins. Just give him wings if they need to be over the battlefield (games/animations/movies) or just more bulcky with a big fancy armor if they need to be in the battle. Like I said, I apreciate to not go the eazy route. -Eagles-Gryffons: The last mount of the classic trio. Talking about empires, fancy mounts, and magestic animals, the head of an eagle is one of the other aesthetics that you just look before you start working on the same job: gryffons, gryph-chrgers, hyppogryphs, whatever... just confirms how typical are this type of mounts in any fantasy game. The Taurolon is more about how fancy and spectacular is, because of that, it has an edge over Dracoths or Gryph-chargers. At the same time, it's more risky to mix a goat with wings and a reptilian face, but I apreciate that, and the result seems to fit what they wanted (or at least, what I think they wanted to achieve). I don't want to convince anyone, but IMHO, the Taurolon has a fresh and unique design, maybe not enough to be what the Slayers or Skavens were for Fantasy, but I apreciate to have something more unique than another type of cliché with a new paint job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGPO Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 The thing with fantasy creatures is that they're fantastic and nonsensical. There's nothing new about this - imagine a designer pitching monsters from greek mythology: Quote "Okay, you know horses? Imagine if they could fly!" "What, you mean like, stick a big set of wings on them?" "Yeah! But why stop there, we could make the whole of the front half like a really big eagle!" "Eh, eagles are pretty badass, but the whole back-end of a horse thing isn't doing it for me. Why don't we make it a lion?" "Cool! Now let me show you this idea I've got for a woman with snakes for hair..." Our own Western mythology isn't much better: Quote "This had better be better than last time Geoff. The community are still complaining about how that that "horse with a sword on its head" just looked kinda suggestive." "This is a really good one! It's like a huuuuge crocodile, but with bat's wings and it breathes fire!" "That's ridiculous. How would it even get into the air?" "Fine, we'll take the front limbs off and put a big stinger on it's tail." "Now you're talking!" Personally, I love the weirdness. It makes the Mortal Realms feel genuinely other-worldy and unique rather than A. N. Other's generic fantasy setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirjava13 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 I just think something a little more regal and a little less, "oh holy Sigmar what is that thing" would have been better, something proud and haughty, something of a cross between a ram and a deer, lips serenely pressed shut in disdain of the frenzied Chaos riff-raff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galas Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 The lack of consistence just comes from the lack of mounted units. The Vanguard Chamber is 100% consistent with their mounths. They have little bird-dogs, they ride big bird-horses, and his boss rides a Bird-Giraffe. And they also use normal falcons/birds. Then the normal/extremis Stormcasts use dragons, big and small ones. Now you have the Sacrosant chamber with two new kind of beasts, much more mythologycal because this is the "magic" chamber. Make a couple of different heroes with more Tauralons as mounths and a unit of magic-cavalry with the Crystal-Pokemon the famel stormcast is mounting and done. Yeah, Stormcast as a whole don't look consistent... because different chambers is like comparing the Navy with the Ground Troopers. They are different organizationss inside the whole. Would you say Chaos Warriors aren't consistent because they have different mounts? From Juggernauts to Fiends of Slaanesh to big Flyes, etc... I know that know chaos warriors are separated by God but that wasn't the case in Fantasy. Stormcast Eternals are all together (And I'm very glad for that), but in the future they could perfectly be split into Chambers if they become big enough to sustain themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshin620 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 To be fair, some issues could be the studio paintjob and lighting. I remember many people not being impressed with the plastic savage orcs for their official flat paint look. And lets not forget the Minotaurs. I mean they're still not great models, but the studio paintjob made it 2x worse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinlvalentine Posted June 28, 2018 Author Share Posted June 28, 2018 43 minutes ago, Galas said: The lack of consistence just comes from the lack of mounted units. The Vanguard Chamber is 100% consistent with their mounths. They have little bird-dogs, they ride big bird-horses, and his boss rides a Bird-Giraffe. And they also use normal falcons/birds. Then the normal/extremis Stormcasts use dragons, big and small ones. Now you have the Sacrosant chamber with two new kind of beasts, much more mythologycal because this is the "magic" chamber. Make a couple of different heroes with more Tauralons as mounths and a unit of magic-cavalry with the Crystal-Pokemon the famel stormcast is mounting and done. Yeah, Stormcast as a whole don't look consistent... because different chambers is like comparing the Navy with the Ground Troopers. They are different organizationss inside the whole. Would you say Chaos Warriors aren't consistent because they have different mounts? From Juggernauts to Fiends of Slaanesh to big Flyes, etc... I know that know chaos warriors are separated by God but that wasn't the case in Fantasy. Stormcast Eternals are all together (And I'm very glad for that), but in the future they could perfectly be split into Chambers if they become big enough to sustain themselves. I think there could still be more consistency between chambers. I mean, the Stormcast themselves are - across the different chambers you get Stormcast of wildly different roles and backgrounds, but they're all recognisably part of the same army. If you showed a random person unfamiliar with Age Of Sigmar any three Stormcast models across the entire range, they'd be able to guess they were part of the same force. If you showed that same person three of the mounts without their riders, I think they'd guess they were from different armies. I get what you're saying though, and probably a big part of the issue I'm seeing is a result of me coming to Age Of Sigmar relatively late-on. I'm looking at Stormcast as one big force, but it was released in waves, and clearly GW's design sensibilities around the Stormcast has changed with each wave (e.g. the Sacrosanct seem to have way more helmetless models than the original dudes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isrephael Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 (Double post. Please disregard.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isrephael Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 7 hours ago, robinlvalentine said: It's a nice idea, but lions do still exist in the Mortal Realms - they pull elf chariots, for one. https://www.games-workshop.com/en-FI/High-Elf-White-Lion-Chariot Are we entirely sure High Elf chariots aren't a myth? The last time I remember seeing one was in 6th edition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Am I dreaming, or have we still only seen just that one photo of the Tauralon's face? One paint job from one angle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nos Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Swole Mounts for Swole People The next chamber will be riding Chaos Dwarf (sorry, Legion of Whatever) Centaurs for optimum Swole per square inch. I like the Gryph Hounds and the Bigger Gryph things, they tie in nicely with the Sigmarite echo of the Old World, much like the hammers etc. There's a lot of nobility and kinship communicated in their design. The latest mounts just look like Sigmar didn't attend to the royal menagerie and that everything mated with everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Klatz Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 I really like them, Aventis is a must buy for me. I like his background, his ties to the third fire realm empire and his beast is very ferocious looking while very fitting for the eldritch mortal realms. I'm actually wondering if it is native to Azyr. If it's native to the fire realm as the rider is then it could be a strain of manticore as the early books showed that those things prowled the chaos conquered parts like sharks and any spilt blood would have them swarm a target. So it's possible this guy is a breed that was cleansed of the chaos taint over time. Anyway I hope we see many more strange and fantastical mounts like this. If we can eventually get Freeguild knight orders from the Realm of Beasts to ride Questing Beasts that'd be great. To say nothing of what the other soldiery can use from semi-plant mounts tamed from Ghyran to the metal realm's clockwork beasts which we did see some engineer overseers ride when overlooking the Greywater industrial works in the short stories. On 6/27/2018 at 4:18 PM, Urauloth said: I like this idea. There might not be much in the way of uncorrupted horse stock left in the other realms either after the Age of Chaos. The descendents of the horses Men and Aelves took to Azyr before Sigmar closed the gates might be all that's left available to Order. The same might have happened to dogs, even. This is very likely. There's a snippet of lore from the early days that the aelven Order Draconis even had to have the Scourge privateers smuggle them in more mounts because they had a shortage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodmaster Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 15 hours ago, AGPO said: The thing with fantasy creatures is that they're fantastic and nonsensical. There's nothing new about this - imagine a designer pitching monsters from greek mythology: Our own Western mythology isn't much better: Personally, I love the weirdness. It makes the Mortal Realms feel genuinely other-worldy and unique rather than A. N. Other's generic fantasy setting. Mythological creatures are a real funny topic. Ways to explain the unexplainable. Unicorn = try to explain someone that the big pointy thing is from a giant air-breathing fishthing. A horse is much more comprehensive. Thos giant skulls with one hole in the forhead and humanoid facial features? Cyclops sonds better than that thos skulls are left overs from giant grey beasts with a 5th limp in place of a nose. Hercules (the dwayn johnson one) actually explains pretty well, how ledgend- and myth-building works ^^. The more intersting it is to see, what modern days designers are doing with exisiting concepts or the development of new ones. Drake-Cat-hybrids, nice concept GW. A purring dragon that hunts giant mice - want one. NOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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