Xil Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Gw manages to not give my wallet a pause. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, Xil said: Gw manages to not give my wallet a pause. It's worse for me as I'd already budgeted February for Slaanesh - I wasn't expecting DoK as well!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojojojo101 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 I expect the new DoK book to come alongside the new HoS book probably next week seeing as both books were taken off the online store this morning. Kind of intrigued what will feature in the new book and how it will interact with the rules in BR: Morathi. Just going from an assumption that they were supposed to be released at the same time or fairly close together and that Zainthar Kai doesn't seem radically different to the Temples from the older book I'm going to go out on a limb and guess it will be fairly minor in what it changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xil Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 I think it will change a whole lot of small things. Especially auras and wholly within rules. Snakes will probably be battleline and take pressure away from Medusa and a chance to bring Ironscale. Sadly it means Khinerai won't change... They need this 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMoose Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Xil said: Snakes will probably be battleline and take pressure away from Medusa and a chance to bring Ironscale. This. PLEASE. Or have the Ironscale make snakes battleline. Not that I don't mind using a Bloodwrack as my general considering the importance of Mindrazor. But I would like to have the Ironscale as my General and still be able to use snakes. Such a missed opportunity that hopefully will be rectified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Oh gods please please please can we go back to 1 banner and 1 musician/whatever per squad not "per 10 models" madness!! That would be one very welcome small change for me. I get why GW did it, but I can never stomach the idea of having 3 banners for only 30 models and such - esp when you only ever have 1 leader per squad; 1 command "stack" per squad is perfectly fine and all that's needed. Heck it gets really silly with cavalry - eg Seeker riders get 1 banner, 1 icon and 1 horn per 5 models. That means for a 20 model unit you've 4banners, 4 icons, 4 horns, 1 leader and only 7 actual regular riders. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xil Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, Overread said: Oh gods please please please can we go back to 1 banner and 1 musician/whatever per squad not "per 10 models" madness!! That would be one very welcome small change for me. I get why GW did it, but I can never stomach the idea of having 3 banners for only 30 models and such - esp when you only ever have 1 leader per squad; 1 command "stack" per squad is perfectly fine and all that's needed. Heck it gets really silly with cavalry - eg Seeker riders get 1 banner, 1 icon and 1 horn per 5 models. That means for a 20 model unit you've 4banners, 4 icons, 4 horns, 1 leader and only 7 actual regular riders. Same for Sylvaneth Tree Revenants. Per 5 you have 1 Leader, 1 Banner and 1 Flute. You aren't forced to repeat this tho. It's an option to have them per 5. It's good if you have 10 and sometimes play 2x5 and other times 1x10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 My feelings are: Temple tweets (move to stuff wholly withing but ranges changed) Addition of our missing temple from the old book (so 6 with cobra kai) Khinari to 2W Loss of Stormcast as allies but new battalion with Idoneth Changes to some artifacts/spells as some are never used/just ******. Maybe ones only certain heroes can take like in the lrl book I'm excited for it. I doubt they will nerf dok as would make the shooting Meta worse. We might get a slight increase in power but tbh just giving us better ways to makes our armies (more BL options) would be great And yeah, maybe cos option in the book for old dark elves stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xil Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Why would you think scrolls get changed yet again even so we seen nothing in the Morathi book or Shadow and Pain box and cards? I don't have my hopes up for Khinerai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMoose Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Xil said: Why would you think scrolls get changed yet again even so we seen nothing in the Morathi book or Shadow and Pain box and cards? I don't have my hopes up for Khinerai. Yeah Khinerai and Melusai have had their updates from the Shadow and Pain Box. Those warscrolls probably will not change. Also, maybe the release of this battletome is why we haven't gotten a FAQ on Broken Realms: Morathi yet. Then again I don't remember what the actual release schedule for FAQs was considering 2020 screwed everything up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Khinerai might need some change considering that Shadowstalkers are doing the same job they do just being far more survivable. A 6+ save on khinerai makes them exceptionally fragile, especially the close combat variation. Shadowstalkers not only have ranged and close combat weapons, can shadowstep any turn but also have a better save. All in all they are a superior choice even if they cost more points; in one unit they are more versatile and reliable. So the Khinerai, in my view, need something to give them the edge. That said anything is possible; don't forget many books are a bit out of sorts with their release times; Morathi is likely later and it might be that the DoK battletome reflects greater changes. We also can't overlook that it might have army wide ability changes that give bonuses too. As for Stormcast I'm not sure if DoK will lose them as allies. Don't forget Morathi and Sigmar having an argument in the lore doesn't mean that they are now steadfast enemies in the setting. Morathi is playing for power on the mortal battlemap; but her faction and she are still almost second to Seraphon and Sigmar in hate for Chaos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaskier Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 I'd say it's a safe bet Hagg Narr are getting kicked in the teeth. It's the original Petrifex Elite, it ain't staying the way it is unless the other temples get buffed (which seems unlikely given the rules we got for Zanthar Kai.) I'm guessing the 5++ is disappearing or at least being disassociated from a specific sub-faction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentia Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 The 5++ could probably stay if they nixed Blessing of Khaine, but yes I'd expect Hagg Nar to be toned down, hopefully with some of the other less appealing temples brought up at the same time. I would've said that Zanthar Kai wouldn't be appearing in the new battletome as they were featured in BR, but as they're on the front cover I guess they're just going to reprint them? Seems weird, but whatever. I'd like to see the Bloodwrack Shrine made into something a little more interesting, and similarly the Slaughter Queen on foot could do with something to make her stand out. I would not be surprised to see some sort of change to Witch Aelves to bring them down a bit (something that springs to mind would be them only getting their bonus attack whilst nearby to a DoK hero that's within 3" of the enemy, as with the Shadow Queen and scathborne), I don't think Witches necessarily need to be toned down particularly at this point in the game (especially with a Hagg Nar fix), but I could see it happening regardless. Endless spells look cool, which of course is always the first consideration! Hopefully they can be used as endless prayers as well, though they probably would've mentioned that if so. Got to assume the bladewind is purely damage in some form, and the snake too probably (though I could see some sort of venom/aura of agony debuff alongside it) and the heart icon will be some sort of buff for nearby DoK units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternalis Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Lucentia said: I would not be surprised to see some sort of change to Witch Aelves to bring them down a bit (something that springs to mind would be them only getting their bonus attack whilst nearby to a DoK hero that's within 3" of the enemy, That would be an unnecessary nerf. Otherwise people would just play SoS all day long long, they would have the same profile but a better pile-in. Endless spells? Why not, but that means no endless prayers ... And what about a Khinerai character? We need it! Hopefully GW will bring Melusais in line with Aelfs, and won't make them better. I won't buy 10 boxes of Melusais to stay competitive in my hardcore local meta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Most people even call endless prayers endless spells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 59 minutes ago, Lucentia said: The 5++ could probably stay if they nixed Blessing of Khaine, but yes I'd expect Hagg Nar to be toned down, hopefully with some of the other less appealing temples brought up at the same time. I would've said that Zanthar Kai wouldn't be appearing in the new battletome as they were featured in BR, but as they're on the front cover I guess they're just going to reprint them? Seems weird, but whatever. I'd like to see the Bloodwrack Shrine made into something a little more interesting, and similarly the Slaughter Queen on foot could do with something to make her stand out. I would not be surprised to see some sort of change to Witch Aelves to bring them down a bit (something that springs to mind would be them only getting their bonus attack whilst nearby to a DoK hero that's within 3" of the enemy, as with the Shadow Queen and scathborne), I don't think Witches necessarily need to be toned down particularly at this point in the game (especially with a Hagg Nar fix), but I could see it happening regardless. Endless spells look cool, which of course is always the first consideration! Hopefully they can be used as endless prayers as well, though they probably would've mentioned that if so. Got to assume the bladewind is purely damage in some form, and the snake too probably (though I could see some sort of venom/aura of agony debuff alongside it) and the heart icon will be some sort of buff for nearby DoK units. 5++/Hagnarr: I think it will stay in some form. It gives aggressive DOK players actual chance staying in combat. So yeah, either range changes to 14/16" wholly within, or something else like you said with Blessing I like the bloodwrack shrine but yeah its a little lack luster. A command ability or something that makes it more interesting I really love the endless spell look, I hope they are useful but not OP too much (nudge to the 30pt LRL Twinstones...) maybe the heart endless spell might be something to increase wards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternalis Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Overread said: Most people even call endless prayers endless spells. Warhammer Community said it was Endless Spells. Let's see if they're right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentia Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 My guess for the icon spell would be an interaction with the blood rites table in some form, but that assumes that blood rites don't change too! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ggom Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Overread said: Oh gods please please please can we go back to 1 banner and 1 musician/whatever per squad not "per 10 models" madness!! That would be one very welcome small change for me. I get why GW did it, but I can never stomach the idea of having 3 banners for only 30 models and such - esp when you only ever have 1 leader per squad; 1 command "stack" per squad is perfectly fine and all that's needed. Heck it gets really silly with cavalry - eg Seeker riders get 1 banner, 1 icon and 1 horn per 5 models. That means for a 20 model unit you've 4banners, 4 icons, 4 horns, 1 leader and only 7 actual regular riders. But... Banners look cool! I hope they don't restrict banners since I think there is a neat visual thing with streaming banners in a block of models. Also, I didn't realize there was a current limit on banners per 10 models. Still haven't played a game yet but looks like I will need to buy more witch elves to make my list legal 🤪 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milano Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Those endless spells look amazing 🤩 Hope the Heart add an interesting mechanic to the game. The other look like ordinary predator spells, but they might suprise. I’m literally right now finishing my first 1k force of DoK. So super excited to see the new book. Below some pics of wip. Hope you like it 😉 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ggom Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Fantastic work @Milano! sidebar obligatory wish for the new tome - I pray for an option to take a behemoth style model besides Morathi. I know we have the Cauldron/Shrine but the Dark elf Hydra and Kharybdiss are soooooooo cool and thematically linked. It would be little work on GW’s part - just toss it on the list of options! sidebar question - are endless prayers a thing? Without Morathi our spellcasting is pretty limited. I’d love to have some of these invokable by our beloved priestesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentia Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Khorne and Fyreslayers both have 'endless prayers,' (they're not called that, but same deal basically) I'd love something where you can choose to cast it as a prayer or a spell, with different tiers of effect for either option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 It will be interesting to see if the predatory spells (I assume at least one or two are) are like Ossiarch ones and retain the controller and can't be swapped over. It's a change I think will come with 3.0 because right now predatory spells are either cast where they can do no harm to yourself or people don't use them so much. I think making them permanent ownership like Ossiarchs makes them far more engaging to use and more deadly in general rathre than something you only ever dare throw in the back lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Eternalis said: Hopefully GW will bring Melusais in line with Aelfs, and won't make them better. I've been playing a lot of snake heavy lists recently against competitive opponents (several games against Fangs of Sotek Kroak lists, Teclis Lumineth lists, Tzeentch Archaon, Nagash/Katakros OBR lists (better than it sounds), KO, Changehost, etc) and have found that Melusai already perform competitively. There are bad matchups for sure but I have very rarely had a game where I didn't think it was winnable and most games were quite close. __________ Regarding the command models thing -- I find this to be a great opportunity to convert some of the standards. I usually have one model with the typical unit standard and then any other standards are much smaller. So the "main" banner bearer is holding something akin to the Platoon standard while the other standards are squad standards. Musicians often don't stand out as much as 2-4 identical standards, but if there are plausible conversions for them I'll do what I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 6 hours ago, Eternalis said: That would be an unnecessary nerf. Otherwise people would just play SoS all day long long, they would have the same profile but a better pile-in. Endless spells? Why not, but that means no endless prayers ... And what about a Khinerai character? We need it! Hopefully GW will bring Melusais in line with Aelfs, and won't make them better. I won't buy 10 boxes of Melusais to stay competitive in my hardcore local meta. Witch elves don’t need to be nerfed themselves. Their strength is from the nexus of buffs DoK can toss on them. You can tone the buffing down and leave witch elves relatively untouched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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