AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[Gauche]

Got a full game in over the weekend against SBGL, not a super competitive build but pretty strong anti-Shooting. VLoZD with a 2+, Vengorian Lord, Coven, Grave Guard with Shields, etc. Managed to win by a point but walked away with a lot of strong impressions.

• My Arkanaut Company were actually very strong as a screen, there was a clutch Redeploy that kept the VLoZD out of melee so I could finish it off the next round. I also just found having bodies is so necessary as otherwise you have to almost entirely shoot the opponent off an Objective and that's not always possible.
• Really disappointed in the Gunhauler, I only took one and even with that the cost increase feels horrible. They just don't do the damage/utility for that price in my eyes. The 6++ for the Ironclad never felt necessary with the other options I had to keep it safe/heal it.
• Endrinriggers still felt necessary, I missed their support fire. They went up a lot but I think it was a fair increase, they're a very strong unit and not having a Triumph hurts them less now that they're mediocre.
• Main Combo of Admiral + Ironclad and Thunderers + Aether-Khemist was very strong. I took a custom Skyport and rolled extra Aethergold which let me get two full Turns of the Ironclad re-rolling 1's to Hit and +1 to Wound whereas the Thunderers were +1 to Hit and re-roll 1's to Wound. Felt like a 40K army with all that dice fixing!
• Unleash Hell and Redeploy are godly for KO. I think people will start taking small, fast units if they can get them on the cheap to get around Unleash Hell. My opponent had none but it's a change he'd make to his list. It was particularly nasty with The Last Word since if I used a Triumph for Inspired I got it on all the shots.
• Not having access to Monsters is going to be more of a hindrance than I initially anticipated. The extra scoring from Battle Tactics is a really big deal, if one player has some Monsters and the other doesn't they can just win off that all else being even. KO has an easier time with this than some armies might just because we can force a commitment or we'll out-shoot them.

Both my opponent and I walked away very impressed with 3.0. We obviously don't know what's strong/weak beyond informed opinions yet but both of us felt in the game until the end of Round 4 and Command Abilities made it feel like we had a lot more options. Losing your General is also just a massive swing, I was able to kill his on Turn 2 and denying that extra Command Point every Round really added up more than I thought it would on paper.

[Boar]

18 minutes ago, Gauche said:

Really disappointed in the Gunhauler, I only took one and even with that the cost increase feels horrible. They just don't do the damage/utility for that price in my eyes. The 6++ for the Ironclad never felt necessary with the other options I had to keep it safe/heal it.

There was always problem with Gunhauler that it's damage is quite random. Getting more out of it requires dropping bombs in melee, which now with loss of save rerolls is more dangerous.

You played one game tough

[novembermike]

4 hours ago, Gauche said:

My Arkanaut Company were actually very strong as a screen, there was a clutch Redeploy that kept the VLoZD out of melee so I could finish it off the next round. I also just found having bodies is so necessary as otherwise you have to almost entirely shoot the opponent off an Objective and that's not always possible.

Arkanauts have been underrated for awhile now. Pound for pound they were one of the toughest, hardest hitting units in the army before the points changes and they got fairly standard increases. They never had the buffs or mobility to really take over games but in the little part of the board they sit on they're a quality unit. I could easily see taking 3-5 squads of them right now.

[Gauche]

20 minutes ago, novembermike said:

Arkanauts have been underrated for awhile now. Pound for pound they were one of the toughest, hardest hitting units in the army before the points changes and they got fairly standard increases. They never had the buffs or mobility to really take over games but in the little part of the board they sit on they're a quality unit. I could easily see taking 3-5 squads of them right now.

Yeah I put three units in my list and found them to be the unsung heroes of the game. KO are going to rely so hard on screens this Edition because there are so many things that can Charge Turn 1 and wreck your game plan. However a unit or two of Arkanauts blocking for an Ironclad, to use an example, is a nightmare to fight. Charge in and pick up my 100pt unit while I shoot you in your Turn? Win.

[Malakithe]

On 6/21/2021 at 1:55 PM, Gauche said:

Yeah I put three units in my list and found them to be the unsung heroes of the game. KO are going to rely so hard on screens this Edition because there are so many things that can Charge Turn 1 and wreck your game plan. However a unit or two of Arkanauts blocking for an Ironclad, to use an example, is a nightmare to fight. Charge in and pick up my 100pt unit while I shoot you in your Turn? Win.

How many Thunderers did you stuff into the boat with the Admiral?

[Gauche]

6 hours ago, Malakithe said:

How many Thunderers did you stuff into the boat with the Admiral?

I was doing 10 but I'm starting to be on the fence more about them. They're just so expensive and need a lot of support. It's over 350 for them and an Aether-Khemist and then they really want All-out Attack too. I'm not giving up on them or anything, they just cost a lot and have some awkward profiles at times. I probably need to get better at knowing when they need to spend a Triumph vs. the Ironclad needing to, +d3 Aethergold has been money so far.

[azmarus]

Can we use 2 same art in army ? I didn’t see restrict in 3.0 rule ?

[novembermike]

I think thunderers are still worth it but am not 100% sure how to use them. If they're out in the open and up close it feels like Arkanauts outperform them pound for pound, and if they're in the ironclad you really have to make sure you're screening the big monsters out because something like Archaeon can still murder it. There's no big weakness to exploit and they're solid so I don't want to get rid of them but I'm not exactly sure how I'm playing them.

One thing I'm looking at is Gotrek. He benefits a ton from the new rules (+1 to save is great, regenerating health is great, we don't really care about our other heroes...) and he hits hard enough that most armies can't afford to ignore him.

[zilberfrid]

I think the Zephyros gets better. Just charge it in and leave it to die, but give the rerolls.

Perhaps make it a spottercopter.

[stratigo]

41 minutes ago, novembermike said:

I think thunderers are still worth it but am not 100% sure how to use them. If they're out in the open and up close it feels like Arkanauts outperform them pound for pound, and if they're in the ironclad you really have to make sure you're screening the big monsters out because something like Archaeon can still murder it. There's no big weakness to exploit and they're solid so I don't want to get rid of them but I'm not exactly sure how I'm playing them.

One thing I'm looking at is Gotrek. He benefits a ton from the new rules (+1 to save is great, regenerating health is great, we don't really care about our other heroes...) and he hits hard enough that most armies can't afford to ignore him.

Archaon is pretty unstoppable right now if you don't build in a number of mortal wound effects.

[Rahxephon]

Has anyone allied in Grimwrath Berzerkers?

Dont see Thryng much and havent really looked into them either myself until now. But allied Grimwraths look pretty good. 

Always taken a couple of foot arkanauts to function as screens or objective holders. One thing they've always struggled with is when they get stuck with harder CC units as they lack the punch to get through. 

Grimwrath with Ally oath goes hits like a truck and can benefit from the grudge reroll. Their 8 attacks would do well to clear out all sorts Id think and only 120 odd points.

 

[Malakithe]

11 hours ago, Gauche said:

I was doing 10 but I'm starting to be on the fence more about them. They're just so expensive and need a lot of support. It's over 350 for them and an Aether-Khemist and then they really want All-out Attack too. I'm not giving up on them or anything, they just cost a lot and have some awkward profiles at times. I probably need to get better at knowing when they need to spend a Triumph vs. the Ironclad needing to, +d3 Aethergold has been money so far.

I didnt think the khemist could buff them while they were inside the boat

[Gauche]

47 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

I didnt think the khemist could buff them while they were inside the boat

He can by spending a Triumph, if he's in the boat, using the BR: Be'lakor additions. So only once or twice a game.

[Beliman]

It seems that we can't disembark on our movement phase if we use Zilfin Footnote:

Quote

17.2.2 LEAVING A GARRISON

A unit cannot join and leave a garrison in the same turn.

We can only do that with Alpha-Beast Pack Batallion and that means we don't know who will have the first turn /sadface

Ignore that, we can still do the same!!!

I will play my 3.0 first game with a friend this Sunday just to lean the basics.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Beliman

[Beliman]

20 minutes ago, Beliman said:

It seems that we can't disembark on our movement phase if we use Zilfin Footnote:

We can only do that with Alpha-Beast Pack Batallion and that means we don't know who will have the first turn /sadface

I will play my 3.0 first game with a friend this Sunday just to lean the basics.

WRONG!!!! We can still do the same!!!

[GrimDork]

Just thinking about the new universal artefacts, Arcane Tome gives an alternative to taking the Spell in a Bottle.

Pros, potential for casting an endless spell multiple times in a game as opposed to only once, access to mystic shield and arcane bolt plus unbinds. Also could go on any hero, not just the khemist, which could open up some new options.

The only reason I can see for still choosing Spell in a Bottle is that it auto casts.

Am I right in thinking that if you took both artefacts in an army, and paid the points for the endless spell (in a bottle) you could then also cast the same spell with the other arcane tome hero? (Obviously not in the same turn, while spell is still on table etc etc). But could you cast the spell from the bottle, then if it gets dispelled cast it again with the other hero?

I suppose same situation if you have any allied wizard (not specific to arcane tome). My thinking was if you pay for an endless spell, all your wizards have access to use it. Am I correct on this?

EDIT: Just thought of another major reason for taking the Spell in a Bottle still, in that it overrides normal army restrictions on spell choice which is a massive boon.

But if a generic ES was chosen for bottle, could another wizard also cast it?

Edited June 28, 2021 by GrimDork

[Boar]

34 minutes ago, GrimDork said:

But if a generic ES was chosen for bottle, could another wizard also cast it?

Can't see why not. Points were paid, wizard can cast the spell, so it should work.

 

[Beliman]

First "try" for a 3.0 list (tournament at end of July, FAQs incoming I know... but whatever...):

Spoiler

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
- Sky Port: Barak Nar

LEADERS
Aether-Khemist (90)
- General
- Command Trait: Champion of Progress
- Artefact: Aethercharged Rune
Aetheric Navigator (95)
Aether-Khemist (90)

BATTLELINES
20 x Arkanaut Company (200) 
- 2 x Skypikes
- 2 x Light Skyhooks
- 2 x Aethermatic Volley Guns
10 x Grundstok Thunderers (270)
10 x Grundstok Thunderers (270) 
- 2 x Aetheric Fumigators
- 2 x Decksweepers
- 2 x Aethercannons
- 2 x Grundstok Mortars

UNITS
6 x Endrinriggers (240)
- 1x Skyhooks
- 1x Grapnel Launchers

BEHEMOTHS
Arkanaut Frigate (250)
- Main Gun: Heavy Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: Malefic Skymines
Arkanaut Ironclad (490)
- Main Gun: Great Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: Prudency Chutes

BATTALIONS
Alpha Beast Pack
- Arkanaut Frigate & Arkanaut Ironclad.

Battle Regiment
- Aether-Khemist, Aetheric Navigator, Aether-Khemist, Arkanaut Company, Grundstok Thunderers, & Grundstok Thunderers

3 drops. Basic strategy, 3 autonomous groups doing their things:

• Ironclad (with 10 thunderers (with Rifles), Khemist and Navigator) use Fly High before the first Battleround (Alpha-Beast Pack). Look for magic nukers and other ranged units at 18" distance. Endrinriggers repair/protect Ironclad (maybe with more pew-pew weapons? don't know).
  Stack buffs on the Ironclad and Thunderers if needed: main target for rerolls 1 to wound of Khemist Triumph  in the hero phase, All out Attack and +1 wound triumph in the Shooting phase).
• Frigatte with 10 thunderers (Special Weapons) Fly High before the first battleround too (Alpha-Beast Pack). On the movement phase, Thunderers disembark on an objective. Frigatte brings support and another source to 
  They are the main target for Unleash hell/All out Defense CAs.
• 20 arkanauts with Khemist run for an objectives. 
  Secundary target for Unleash Hell and All Out Defense.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Beliman

[azmarus]

I try this list in next tournament:

Spoiler

llegiance: Kharadron Overlords
- Sky Port: Barak Zilfin
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Aether-Khemist (95)
- General
- Command Trait: Collector
- Artefact: Spell in a Bottle
Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (190) - zilfin art.
Endrinmaster with Endrinharness (105)

Battleline
10 x Arkanaut Company (100)
10 x Arkanaut Company (100)
Arkanaut Frigate (250)

Units
10 x Grundstok Thunderers (270)
10 x Grundstok Thunderers (270)

Behemoths
Arkanaut Ironclad (490)
- Main Gun: Great Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: The Last Word
Vortex (90)

Total: 1960/2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400

on 10 thunders in clad and frigate, 1 drop

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by azmarus

[cofaxest]

Hope for new releases?
 

[eciu]

1 hour ago, cofaxest said:

Hope for new releases?
 

It's from this RPG ? Plus we have most of it already in game. 

[GrimDork]

Isn't the one labelled "emergency vent plates" just the Khemist's atmospheric anatomiser?

An elite melee unit wearing steam piston plate armour would be very cool.

[cofaxest]

29 minutes ago, eciu said:

It's from this RPG ? Plus we have most of it already in game. 

Yea from RPG. Cogmonculus is the most interesting here) Plus having grenades would be cool too.

Edited June 29, 2021 by cofaxest

[eciu]

1 hour ago, cofaxest said:

Yea from RPG. Cogmonculus is the most interesting here) Plus having grenades would be cool too.

It's already here. Check Endrimaster artifacts. 

 

And for grenades check Phosphorite Bomblets on Endrin balloon hero. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by eciu

[cofaxest]

12 minutes ago, eciu said:

It's already here. Check Endrimaster artifacts. 

Yes, but we never saw how it looks like) I will be more then happy to see Kharadron version of nurgling in plastic)