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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

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Which list is better for take all comers?:

Iron Sky Command

Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit, Phosphorite Bomblets, Grudgebearer 

Navigator

Khemist, Spell in a Bottle (Purple Sun)

Ironclad (Volley Cannon, Ebullient Buoyancy Aids)

10 Arkanauts

3x3 Riggers (Rivets and Saws)

20 Thunderers

Total: 1970, 2 Drops

OR: No Battalion, No Navigator, Khemist or Arkanauts but Brokk, 3 more Riggers and a Gunhauler. 9 drops.

The second list is deadlier; but will never outdrop anyone. I’m inclined to take the two drop list so I have the choice to alpha or take the opportunity to have the first double turn. Have people had really bad experiences when out dropped by alpha strike capable lists? Or maybe outdropped and allowed them to get too many buffs up? 

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19 minutes ago, Serpico said:

Which list is better for take all comers?:

Iron Sky Command

Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit, Phosphorite Bomblets, Grudgebearer 

Navigator

Khemist, Spell in a Bottle (Purple Sun)

Ironclad (Volley Cannon, Ebullient Buoyancy Aids)

10 Arkanauts

3x3 Riggers (Rivets and Saws)

20 Thunderers

Total: 1970, 2 Drops

OR: No Battalion, No Navigator, Khemist or Arkanauts but Brokk, 3 more Riggers and a Gunhauler. 9 drops.

The second list is deadlier; but will never outdrop anyone. I’m inclined to take the two drop list so I have the choice to alpha or take the opportunity to have the first double turn. Have people had really bad experiences when out dropped by alpha strike capable lists? Or maybe outdropped and allowed them to get too many buffs up? 

Your two specific lists aside, I wouldnt leave the house without atleast one navigator. Banning spells/unbinding spells is just too important, the ability to harm flying units is also nice to have as most centerpiece models got the FLY keyword. 

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Barak Thryng: 

Incredibly Stubborn: The warriors of Barak-Thryng will often deny death long enough to get in a last blow.

If a friendly SKYFARERS model is slain while it is within 3" of an enemy unit, roll a dice. On a 4+, that model can fight before it is removed from play.

 

This doesn't stipulate you can pile in and fight with melee weapons, or the combat phase specifically the way that similar rules like No Respite does. So can you use missile weapons? Fire weapons if killed in enemy shooting phase etc? Can anyone point me to any core rules related to this?

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3 hours ago, ArmyOfGrodd said:

Barak Thryng: 

Incredibly Stubborn: The warriors of Barak-Thryng will often deny death long enough to get in a last blow.

If a friendly SKYFARERS model is slain while it is within 3" of an enemy unit, roll a dice. On a 4+, that model can fight before it is removed from play.

 

This doesn't stipulate you can pile in and fight with melee weapons, or the combat phase specifically the way that similar rules like No Respite does. So can you use missile weapons? Fire weapons if killed in enemy shooting phase etc? Can anyone point me to any core rules related to this?

In the core rules words "fight" and "fighting" are  only used for close combat. The subsection on attacking in the combat phase is named "fighting". 

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3 hours ago, ArmyOfGrodd said:

Barak Thryng: 

Incredibly Stubborn: The warriors of Barak-Thryng will often deny death long enough to get in a last blow.

If a friendly SKYFARERS model is slain while it is within 3" of an enemy unit, roll a dice. On a 4+, that model can fight before it is removed from play.

 

This doesn't stipulate you can pile in and fight with melee weapons, or the combat phase specifically the way that similar rules like No Respite does. So can you use missile weapons? Fire weapons if killed in enemy shooting phase etc? Can anyone point me to any core rules related to this?

From the core rules page 5: 

Screenshot_20200221-214932__01.jpg.2a3ea556ab3794667106813b4cef07f7.jpg

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2 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Anyone running an Ironclad + Frigate list and got any ideas to share?

Ben Smith is 3-0 at Sheffield slaughter with my new fav list:

Zelfin
Navigator 
Admiral (staff of Ocular)
Endrinmaster (Grandmaster)
2 x 10 Arkanauts, light sky hook, sky pike, pistol, volley gun
2 x Frigates with cannons
Ironclad: Last word, volley cannon
2 Gunhaulers with cannons
Gunhauler with Torpedoes and drill

He played beastmen, Slaanesh and Fyreslayers

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7 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

Ben Smith is 3-0 at Sheffield slaughter with my new fav list:

Zelfin
Navigator 
Admiral (staff of Ocular)
Endrinmaster (Grandmaster)
2 x 10 Arkanauts, light sky hook, sky pike, pistol, volley gun
2 x Frigates with cannons
Ironclad: Last word, volley cannon
2 Gunhaulers with cannons
Gunhauler with Torpedoes and drill

He played beastmen, Slaanesh and Fyreslayers

Excellent. Do you happen to know the tactics behind it?

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9 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

Ben Smith is 3-0 at Sheffield slaughter with my new fav list:

Zelfin
Navigator 
Admiral (staff of Ocular)
Endrinmaster (Grandmaster)
2 x 10 Arkanauts, light sky hook, sky pike, pistol, volley gun
2 x Frigates with cannons
Ironclad: Last word, volley cannon
2 Gunhaulers with cannons
Gunhauler with Torpedoes and drill

He played beastmen, Slaanesh and Fyreslayers

Interesting that he wouldn’t drop a hauler for Iron Sky Command or Attack Squadron if only to give the Nav the flare gun or auto dispel.

6 boats is really cool though.

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A more general thought that’s been knocking about in my head for a few weeks now. 
I like the thought of barak thryng but I couldn’t get a list I’d like in it. My mentality for KO is it should play mobile and evade until turn 2 or 3 and only then contest the objectives. Depending on when you’ve taken apart enough of the synergies it your opponent. But that I can’t get to work with barak thryng. Not in theory let alone practice. 

So is barak thryng our static gun line sky port? thunderers and irondrakes on the ground.  Protected by arkanauts screens and a big combat unit for the counter charge.   One gunhauler with compartments and maybe a frigate with 10 arkanauts to claim objectives and force you opponent not to commit everything.

what do you think? Is that a better way to take advantage of the barak thryng rules? Or do you have a different philosophy and more importantly experience? 

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1 hour ago, Kramer said:

 

what do you think? Is that a better way to take advantage of the barak thryng rules? Or do you have a different philosophy and more importantly experience? 

Let me start by saying absolutely no experience with Barak Thryng at all, so you might just want to skip the rest. 😁

But in theory, at least, it looks to me as if Thryng favours two things: a) glass cannons in melee (since you can charge in, do your damage, get killed, then do half your damage again), so I’m thinking some buffed balloon guys, a combat admiral maybe, and b) allies from other duardin, and what we lack here is resilient or armoured troops in the main, so either resilient Fyreslayers or armoured ironbreakers?

Maybe the way to look at it is that you can have a very mobile hammer (boat with a hero or two and some balloon guys to strike where you need it most), with a durable (allied) anvil to hold fast on objectives.

Sadly I don’t own any Fyreslayers or enough dispossessed to help in practice!

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15 minutes ago, Baron Wastelands said:

: a) glass cannons in melee (since you can charge in, do your damage, get killed, then do half your damage again), so I’m thinking some buffed balloon guys, a combat admiral mayb

Really? Interesting. My take away immediately was grinding warfare. But a suicide missile might work. Just becomes a bit niche due to it triggering on SKYFARER and not BARAK THRYNG. 
 

16 minutes ago, Baron Wastelands said:

allies from other duardin, and what we lack here is resilient or armoured troops in the main, so either resilient Fyreslayers or armoured ironbreakers?

Absolutely. But They won’t keep up with our damage dealers. Which is the part where I struggle to make a game plan with a normal list and just supplementing it with duardin. 
I already played hearthguard bezerkers allies with a runesmiter. That works but I don’t need to be thryng for that. 
It also shows where it hurts. I deploy them where I need. But they don’t have the speed to redeploy with the rest of the army. 
So they ended up as a screen for a turn and that’s a bit... uninspired. 

I’ll try to make a list and see if that helps me clarify my thought process 😁

thank for the input. 👍

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11 hours ago, ArmyOfGrodd said:

Interesting that he wouldn’t drop a hauler for Iron Sky Command or Attack Squadron if only to give the Nav the flare gun or auto dispel.

6 boats is really cool though.

That's exactly what I'd do too is take a battalion for the extra artifacts and lower drops.

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As i dont hawe endless and gunhauler ready yet i was using thryng as my main port lately. He hawe medicore artefact as the rest of our ports but the bonuses are great. Reroll ones to 3 enemy units, 4+ after death attack, once per game 2 wounds roll on 6 to hit. Reroll 1 to hit alone helped me to boost dmg and opportunity to spend gold on other things.

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Just wanted to check, you can deploy 9 ArCo and a foot hero into a Frigate for example and just kill the single ArCo at deployment? If you really wanted / needed to?

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4 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Just wanted to check, you can deploy 9 ArCo and a foot hero into a Frigate for example and just kill the single ArCo at deployment? If you really wanted / needed to?

You pay points for 10 but just take 9, iirc you can only take one understrength unit of each warscroll.

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Would some kind soul explain the disembark rules to me? I feel a bit lost here honestly. :)

Can I fly high and then disembark? Or do I have to stand still in the same movement phase to disembark?

/D

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13 minutes ago, Dejnar said:

Would some kind soul explain the disembark rules to me? I feel a bit lost here honestly. :)

Can I fly high and then disembark? Or do I have to stand still in the same movement phase to disembark?

/D

You cant disembark after fly high

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1 hour ago, sainted75 said:

iirc you can only take one understrength unit of each warscroll.

Where is that rule from? 

 

1 hour ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Just wanted to check, you can deploy 9 ArCo and a foot hero into a Frigate for example and just kill the single ArCo at deployment? If you really wanted / needed to?

You can get a unit in the increments shown in the points table. But you can then take less models. But remember if you don’t take 10, you don’t meet the one in ten requirement for the special weapons. (I’ll source the rules for this part later. Can’t find it right now. But I’m pretty sure that’s how the special weapons works)   

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11 minutes ago, Entombet said:

You cant disembark after fly high

I see.

Can I disembark first and then fly high?

 

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2 hours ago, Kramer said:

You can get a unit in the increments shown in the points table. But you can then take less models. But remember if you don’t take 10, you don’t meet the one in ten requirement for the special weapons. (I’ll source the rules for this part later. Can’t find it right now. But I’m pretty sure that’s how the special weapons works) 

Thanks all for responses. In the units section of the rules it says that if there’s not enough room to set up all models from a unit - if that’s the case models that can’t be set up are slain. So if I put a hero in first and then there’s only 9 spaces left... ah but technically there is more room isn’t there, I just don’t want to use it. I guess I can’t just elect to kill my own models?

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23 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Thanks all for responses. In the units section of the rules it says that if there’s not enough room to set up all models from a unit - if that’s the case models that can’t be set up are slain. So if I put a hero in first and then there’s only 9 spaces left... ah but technically there is more room isn’t there, I just don’t want to use it. I guess I can’t just elect to kill my own models?

I thought exactly the same. But the Battle begins after the set-up (core rules: "Before the battle begins you must set up your army, choose your general, and use any pre-battle abilities.").

You kill the Arkanaut before the battle begins but your units recieve their shares at start of the battle. 

Edited by Beliman

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51 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I thought exactly the same. But the Battle begins after the set-up (core rules: "Before the battle begins you must set up your army, choose your general, and use any pre-battle abilities.").

You kill the Arkanaut before the battle begins but your units recieve their shares at start of the battle. 

 

Also at @5kaven5lave

But can you deliberately kill a model from you unit? 🧐
 

not the best argument: but the frigate doesn’t force you to max 10 models. So in the example question. You could take the frigate. Put in a hero. And then you still have the room for the last one.
 

Big difference to units being out of coherency. 

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6 minutes ago, Kramer said:

 

Also at @5kaven5lave

But can you deliberately kill a model from you unit? 🧐
 

not the best argument: but the frigate doesn’t force you to max 10 models. So in the example question. You could take the frigate. Put in a hero. And then you still have the room for the last one.
 

Big difference to units being out of coherency. 

IMO, it should be possible to kill your models.
From Core Rules... that weren't written with the KO in mind btw (it seems that we are looking for an exploit here): "Sometimes there will not be enough room to set up all of the models from a unit. When this is the case, any models that cannot be set up are considered to have been slain".

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