DavionStar

Halguun Cogfist is ready for action.

I don't think anyone's responded to this yet (probably just got lost in the other posts) so I'll take a crack at it. Keep in mind I don't have a huge amount of experience playing personally but I think I know enough to point you in the right direction at least. List 1: This could be workable. Stick the Arks in the frigate with the Endrinmaster and one of the Riggers squads to fly with it, and the other Rigger squad with the Gunhauler. Though I'd replace the Skymines with something else, like the Omniscope, unless you're expecting a lot of flyers. Otherwise the Skymines are useless. List 2: I find it hard to like this list because you'd have so few models on the table. You've only got 12 wounds worth of Battleline there, and they're not that sturdy either. You need more bodies in a 1k list I think. List 3: This is pretty similar to a list I wanted to try actually. This one's got potential but I think having 2 Khemists in this list is too much. I don't see what they'd each be buffing. Might want to give one Khemist both Collector and the Bottle then bring either a Navigator or normal Endrinmaster instead.

I understand that they need to be balanced cause they can fly, but it'd still be nice if the were a little sturdier, or a little cheaper so you could bring more. And I do love Riggers too. They're like battle mechanics and that's awesome. It's just always felt odd to me that they're better in melee than a unit with actual weapons. They're really good right now actually. Use them to cover bigger ships or have them go on sniping adventures. Compartments are the perfect size for a minimum Thunderer squad too. Give them a Rigger escort and you got a nice little, ranged murder ball. Considering the drill has insane range, -3 rend and has a 1/3 chance (5+) to deal 3 mortal wounds on hit? It's hard to say no to. Though the shrapnel sky cannon might be better for big blobs of models.

Ok yeah, that's pretty big. Charge any of our boats and risk immediate mortal wounds. I'll have to remember that. Also since I'm a hopeless dingus who desperately wants Skywardens to be really good. I'm taking a look at some of the other Codes, Command Traits and Artefacts that we have outside of the main Sky Ports that could be useful for them. I only found one. Pretty much all the Command Traits only affect the Hero themself. Footnote: There's No Trading With Some People. Once a battle a unit that has run/retreated this turn can still shoot/charge. Retreat with Wardens to use their Timed Charges, then shoot and charge back in to fight again. Only once per battle but potentially worth it if the unit survived to the turn after their initial charge. Can't get this Footnote in a Zon list, sadly. You COULD potentially get this Footnote into an Urbaz list though. The Urbaz command trait is only mandatory if your General is Khemist. But if your General is an Admiral you could give them A Scholar and an Arkanaut to pick an extra Footnote. Whether this is better than just going Zon and giving Wardens 3+ hit and 2+ wound on all their charges though is another question. Zon pretty much gives Wardens the same melee profile as Riggers on the charge. Riggers still have the -2 rend but Wardens get 2 attacks with their Pikes at 2". It's not gonna stop me trying to use Wardens in other lists though. I am as stubborn as a dwarf on this. XD What's the worst that's gonna happen? The Wardens get slaughtered and I potentially lose the game. Boo hoo, I'll try something different the next time. I'm still new, I'm gonna lose a lot anyways. 😜

Idea for hitching Wardens on a boat flying high. If your opponent has flyers in range to charge, use Wardens as a screen since they can punish charging flyers. If not, do the reverse. Hide the Wardens behind the boat and wait for the enemy to make their move. Then the following turn you can move in, shoot and charge them. Also, a question. Bomb Racks rule says "At the start of the combat phase". Does that mean only my combat phase or ANY combat phase?

I was thinking about Hammerers as an option too. I mean, the Thunderers models aren't that big. I could order some 25mm bases and just glue them to those. They'd probably fit. I just wish there was a unit with 4+ save and 2 wounds. XD Maybe for the HGB I could give them bare arms and no helms or something to make them look like they have a worse save or something. 😜

Yanno what, I'm tempted to kitbash some Thunderers and give them all the Skypike bits I have left over from my 9 sawriggers and have them count as something else. Maybe the Hearthguard Berserkers or something. (Then I could get a cheaper KO hero to count as the Runesmiter so I don't need to buy a whole magmadroth) Btw sorry if I'm super talkative today. I was out of my meds for like 4 days straight and now that I'm back on them I'm full of vim and vigor. Relatively speaking at least.

I just noticed something interesting. The Gun Butt of Grundstok Thunderers has the same exact weapon profile as the Cutters in an Arkanauts Company. And the Drillbill is similarish to a Skypike. So, not counting for unit abilities, 10 Thunderers could match 10 Arkanauts in melee prowess. ....which is still nothing to write home about, but makes Thunderers as a battleline more inviting. Aside from the cost anyway.

To add to what @Sttufe said, it also depends on what you want to use them for. Riggers are there to support your boats with ranged fire, healing, or being a melee screen. They basically want to be stuck to your boats like lamprey on a shark. Can't go wrong with 3-6 riggers assigned to a skyvessel. Wardens are best in a Zon list due to the specific buffs they get, and in general are better equipped to go off and intercept other enemies. They have a longer melee reach with more attacks (though less hit chance and rend), can potentially deal mortal wounds to flying enemies that charge, and can deal mortal wounds to units when retreating. Have them float behind a squad of Arkanauts and lay in the pain. I'd suggest 6 Riggers with special weapons to start with though. Maybe a 3 dorf squad of Skywardens in addition if you wanted to experiment.

Another couple of notes on the whole Barak-Thryng debate. The amendment states that "any DUARDIN" unit can be included in the army. Per the latest battletome, the only allies we can bring must have the keyword Stormcast Eternals, Fyreslayers, Dispossessed or Ironweld Arsenal. And there are plenty of Duardin units without any of those keywords, including Gotrek. It doesn't state that the Duardin keyword gets added to our available ally list, or that they get to be included despite not being on the ally list. It also doesn't state that any allies we add that are Duardin get the Barak-Thryng keyword. All of this lends to the idea that Duardin units added to our army via the amendment are not considered allies. And one last thing to note. The Core Rules as shown before? State 1 out of 4 units. No points mentioned at all. So if we're going my that and the amendment does count as allies, the 200 ally pts per 1000 army points rule doesn't exist at all. So points don't matter, only unit count. (Though if true that does mean my 'cheat' to get around the 1:4 amendment limit by adding in extra by using ally points would be illegal but eh it felt like cheating anyway)

I second this. Meanwhile, I've been tempted to make a Little Jack since I had first set eyes on a Frigate with a Skyhook.

This is correct. If you're running Barak-Thryng, you can include Duardin units without having to count them as allies, and while they don't get the KO keyword, they do get the Barak-Thryng keyword. I can bring a 10 model unit of Hearthguard Berzerkers in a 1000 pt Thryng list even though that breaks the 200pt ally limit, cause they're not allies. You CAN still bring extra Duardin units as allies though to 'cheat' the 1:4 rule, they just won't get the Thryng keyword and will count towards ally costs. I've confirmed this on the Azyr list builder. (Though BattleScribe hasn't been updated for this yet)

Sat down and got my Admiral finished up!

Dude, that'd be sick though. Like an elite squad of Endrinharness equipped dorfs. Like Skyriggers but tougher and ground only maybe. Not that I don't love Fyreslayers models but kitbashing something together with heavier armor and a harness could work as Hearthguard. Maybe mixing Skyriggers and Thunderer bits. >.> (Already had my first experience with Green Stuff now in my attempt to make a female fyreslayer Hearthguard) And woo! Great to see us win a tourney! This tome is just what we needed. I'll definitely feel my losses are my fault rather than weakish rules. XD;

Ah yeah, just checked the scroll. Can't deep strike on a magmadroth. And putting one in an ironclad? Madness. Though I kinda wish we could give Irondrakes the Marine keyword. Stick them on an Ironclad and go all Firelord Ozai and burn EVERYTHING. 😜 But alas. I do still want to make a Thryng list with Fyreslayers someday though. Even if it's not competitive, it'll be fun. (Maybe I should just get the starter box and maybe make a Fyreslayer list on the side cause Runesmiter is expensive on his own) I'm gonna get the last models done for that list suggested to me before hopefully this week so I can build up the mental fortitude to find a game.