AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[JustAsPlanned]

A cool lore snippet related to KO from Soulbound I found on the Soulbound discord. Dunno which book it’s from (probably Steam and Steel), but here:

“Most disturbing of all is the fate of Barak-Durmmaz, a sky-port entirely overwhelmed by the Nighthaunt advance. Death has not abated their hunger for aether-gold, and now sky-fleets must contest with undead Duardin in the race for airborne resources”

Even the sky-capitalists aren’t immune to becoming spookums it seems.

[Beliman]

11 hours ago, eciu said:

It's already here. Check Endrimaster artifacts. 

 

And for grenades check Phosphorite Bomblets on Endrin balloon hero. 

I need a unit of Cogmonculus!!! 

[Dawnmane]

Hi arkanauts, do any of you know if we can all use the new Guild Triumphs now? I'm happy to buy the books neccessary to do so, I just wanted to be sure.

 

I haven't played KO for a long, long time, but I can't wait to play them in the new edition!

[stratigo]

13 hours ago, Dawnmane said:

Hi arkanauts, do any of you know if we can all use the new Guild Triumphs now? I'm happy to buy the books neccessary to do so, I just wanted to be sure.

 

I haven't played KO for a long, long time, but I can't wait to play them in the new edition!

yes you can still use the guild triumphs

[Beliman]

Wall fo text incoming!

So, new FAQs!!! A lot of sutile things (or not) that may change how we play:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/T6LNSIDslUOTB0Ho.pdf

So, from what I catch, it seems that our freindly non-KO DUARDIN units in Barak-Thryng are not gaining any Keyword, so no Grudges to settle for them:

Quote

Page 73 – Amendment – Take Help Where You Can Get It: Change to: ‘1 in every 4 units in a Barak-Thryng army can be a coalition unit (see below) from the Cities of Sigmar or Fyreslayers faction that has the Duardin keyword.

A bit sad. Gotrek will not be part of Barak-Thryng anymore (he is not from Cities of Sigmar nor Fyreslayers) but that's a minor hit.
But we won another Battleline units: Vulkite Berzerks!!

Quote

Q: If I can take coalition units in my army, can they count as some or all of the Battleline units in my army?’
A: Yes, unless the battlepack you are using specifically says otherwise.

EDIT: Not in Matched Play: “Coalition units for not count towards the number of Battleline units in your army”

Hitchers can't jump with Alpha-Beast Pack nor Zilfin Footnote anymore (/sadface):

Quote

Q: Some abilities can be used ‘instead of a normal move’. Can I use  these abilities if the unit is not allowed to make a normal move (e.g. when it is within 3" of an enemy unit)?
A: No.

That's a bit rare because we had a FAQ that allowed exactly this... whatever.

No more Bound Endless Spells anymore. It's not something to take in consideration because but it was fun playing Bound Chronomatic Cogs. 

Quote

Spell Lores and Bound Endless Spells Change the header to ‘Spell Lores and Bonded Endless Spells’ and the rules under the header to: ‘Endless spells summoned by Seraphon Wizards are bonded to the model that summoned them. A bonded endless spell is always controlled by the model to which it is bonded. A model cannot be bonded to more than one endless spell at the same time and cannot attempt to summon other endless spells while it is bonded. If the model that summoned the endless spell is removed from play, then the endless spell is removed from play.’

Warp Lightning Vortex has a diferent set-up rule. Big Nerf in my opinion, but it is what it is:

Quote

This endless spell is summoned with a spell that has a casting value of 8 and a range of 13". If successfully cast, set up 1 part of the endless spell wholly within range of the caster, then set up the second and third parts exactly 7" from the first part and exactly 7" from each other (the parts will form a triangle with each part exactly 7" from the other two parts). All of the parts must be set up more than 1" from all models, other endless spells and invocations. Only Skaventide Wizards can attempt to summon this endless spell.

The Everblaze Comet from SCE took a hit too, it only works when it sets-up and I'm not sure that's what we want...

Another one that is nerfed (and I loved) is the Darkfire Daemonrift. Wizards don't add more dmg anymore:

Quote

Add 1 to the number of mortal wounds caused by this endless spell for each other endless spell within 12" of this endless spell after it has moved.

Btw, A LOT of rerolls were removed with this update. instead, everybody has +1 save or even ignore -1rend:

Quote

Page 79 – Petrifex Elite, Unstoppable Juggernauts Change the rule to: ‘Worsen the Rend characteristic of weapons that target Petrifex Elite units by 1, to a minimum of ‘-’.’
-----------
Page 122 – Myrmidesh Painbringer, Painbringer Shields Change to: ‘Add 1 to save rolls for attacks made with melee weapons that target this unit.

A direct nerf to one of our most powerful weapons: Rend. 

That's all that I got from my first read. So, what do you think? Anyone saw more tricks, nerfs, bufs,... ? How are your lists affeted by this new FAQs?
 

Edited July 3, 2021 by Beliman
More Endless Spells

[GrimDork]

They sorted out all the fly high normal move/retreat move questions at least. As you were.

[Bjørn Gunnerson]

Can you explain to me why balloons can no longer hitch when using Fly High from Zilfin footnote? I’m not understanding this.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Bjørn Gunnerson

[Zplash]

Ouh they exactly hit my current Thryng list... Thanks GW... I mean, I can understand the change with Gotrek but why they don't get the Thryng keyword anymore? 

The cities like tempest eye still make KO units to tempest eye units... 

Maybe because they were only lazy and forgot to add that part back in after they changed the specific duardin section XD

That hurts my irondrakes

Edited July 2, 2021 by Zplash

[WatcherintheWater]

Sounds like The Last Word does stack with Unleash Hell. The Cities units like Handgunners got their similar ability FAQ'ed away, so nice that the Ironclad keeps it.

 

[Beliman]

48 minutes ago, Bjørn Gunnerson said:

Can you explain to me why balloons can no longer hitch when using Fly High from Zilfin footnote? I’m not understanding this.

Oops, I copy&pasted the wrong FAQ (already edited).

Fixed!

[eciu]

1 hour ago, WatcherintheWater said:

Sounds like The Last Word does stack with Unleash Hell. The Cities units like Handgunners got their similar ability FAQ'ed away, so nice that the Ironclad keeps it.

 

And ? No change to last word. Use it as you used it before.

What is strange is that none of our boats got a "Elite" rule (like Gyrocopters) allowing them to issue commands to themselfs!

[plavski]

48 minutes ago, eciu said:

And ? No change to last word. Use it as you used it before.

What is strange is that none of our boats got a "Elite" rule (like Gyrocopters) allowing them to issue commands to themselfs!

That's why fleets have Admirals!

[eciu]

Btw. Darkfire deamonrift is no longer griefing LRL, as it was changed and add MW depending on number of other Endless Spells within "12 and not wizards

[WatcherintheWater]

1 hour ago, eciu said:

And ? No change to last word. Use it as you used it before.

What is strange is that none of our boats got a "Elite" rule (like Gyrocopters) allowing them to issue commands to themselfs!

Yeah, no change is what surprised me. I was expecting that it would be changed like the other units that had a charge reaction shooting ability. I might be wrong, but I think it's the only unit that can shoot twice in the enemy charge phase now.

So in order to charge an ironclad, and attack it in melee, a unit has to get shot twice with one gun, and once with everything else, and have bombs dropped on them at the start of melee. 14 or 15 wounds on a 4+ save unit before they even get to attack.

That plus a 2+ save as often as you have CPs (yeah, it's not as good as the old triumph re-roll, but you can get it more often), and the fact that the Admiral's commands now have a point, has an Ironclad with 10 Thunderers & an Admiral looking pretty good to me.

[Dave]

4 hours ago, Beliman said:

Wall fo text incoming!

So, new FAQs!!! A lot of sutile things (or not) that may change how we play:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/T6LNSIDslUOTB0Ho.pdf

So, from what I catch, it seems that our freindly non-KO DUARDIN units in Barak-Thryng are not gaining any Keyword, so no Grudges to settle for them:

A bit sad. Gotrek will not be part of Barak-Thryng anymore (he is not from Cities of Sigmar nor Fyreslayers) but that's a minor hit.
But we won another Battleline units: Vulkite Berzerks!!

Hitchers can't jump with Alpha-Beast Pack nor Zilfin Footnote anymore (/sadface):

That's a bit rare because we had a FAQ that allowed exactly this... whatever.

No more Bound Endless Spells anymore. It's not something to take in consideration because but it was fun playing Bound Chronomatic Cogs. 

Warp Lightning Vortex has a diferent set-up rule. Big Nerf in my opinion, but it is what it is:

Btw, A LOT of rerolls were removed with this update. instead, everybody has +1 save or even ignore -1rend:

A direct nerf to one of our most powerful weapons: Rend. 

That's all that I got from my first read. So, what do you think? Anyone saw more tricks, nerfs, bufs,... ? How are your lists affeted by this new FAQs?
 

Where did you find the FAQ bit? I’ve got the erratas but can’t see where the questions about coalition battle line are . Not doubting you it’s probably me being thick 😄

[Lurynsar]

5 hours ago, Beliman said:

But we won another Battleline units: Vulkite Berzerks!!

Just a heads up. The Matched Play Battlepack disallows coalition units as counting for Battleline. So you don’t actually gain new Battleline units in the vast majority of cases unless you plan to play strictly casual rule sets. 

[Beliman]

2 minutes ago, Lurynsar said:

Just a heads up. The Matched Play Battlepack disallows coalition units as counting for Battleline. So you don’t actually gain new Battleline units in the vast majority of cases unless you plan to play strictly casual rule sets. 

Ouch, that's a low hit. I don't have the GHB21 yet.

10 minutes ago, Dave said:

Where did you find the FAQ bit? I’ve got the erratas but can’t see where the questions about coalition battle line are . Not doubting you it’s probably me being thick 😄

In the Core Rules errata I think. GHB seems to not allow that, so...we are at the same square.

[Lurynsar]

On 7/2/2021 at 2:23 PM, Beliman said:

Ouch, that's a low hit. I don't have the GHB21 yet.

Yeah it reads “Coalition units do not count towards the number of Battleline units in your army” for the Matched Play Battlepack

Edited July 3, 2021 by Lurynsar

[Gauche]

I think KO are going to play as a Soup army moving forward.The game is moving in a heavy Rend direction and KO don't do that well, it's hard to get better than -1 in any viable numbers. I see your actual KO stuff as taking out the lighter units and skirmishing but things like Irondrakes taking on the enemy heavy hitters. This makes Barak-Thryng the most likely Skyport to see in my opinion, the old Alpha Strike lists some favored in 2.0 just don't work anymore. The one exception would be double Frigate or Frigate + Ironclad and using Fly High with the GHB Battalion for Behemoths (works RAW, no FAQ yet).

Gotrek is still good, I'm also looking at the Celestant-Prime as a replacement. He doesn't hit nearly as hard but he self-delivers without fail, provides some MWs, and has few enough Wounds to pick up Cover + AoD/TFH. Irondrakes with a Runelord are another great package and we probably run it better on the table than anything but Living Cities. A Runelord with Arcane Tome is hilarious, two +2 Unbinds and a +2 Dispel plus access to Curse in an army that can actually make it work? Sold.

I haven't seen much else that would fit the bill, Hearthguard don't have the Rend and are pricey while most SCE stuff is in the same boat. The good news is we still blow up chaff and I'm seeing a lot more Monsters or elite units/pieces who don't want to stand on Objectives so KO can force opponents into some hard decisions. OBR and SCE are looking very resilient to just about everything though.....

[stratigo]

4 hours ago, Gauche said:

I think KO are going to play as a Soup army moving forward.The game is moving in a heavy Rend direction and KO don't do that well, it's hard to get better than -1 in any viable numbers. I see your actual KO stuff as taking out the lighter units and skirmishing but things like Irondrakes taking on the enemy heavy hitters. This makes Barak-Thryng the most likely Skyport to see in my opinion, the old Alpha Strike lists some favored in 2.0 just don't work anymore. The one exception would be double Frigate or Frigate + Ironclad and using Fly High with the GHB Battalion for Behemoths (works RAW, no FAQ yet).

Gotrek is still good, I'm also looking at the Celestant-Prime as a replacement. He doesn't hit nearly as hard but he self-delivers without fail, provides some MWs, and has few enough Wounds to pick up Cover + AoD/TFH. Irondrakes with a Runelord are another great package and we probably run it better on the table than anything but Living Cities. A Runelord with Arcane Tome is hilarious, two +2 Unbinds and a +2 Dispel plus access to Curse in an army that can actually make it work? Sold.

I haven't seen much else that would fit the bill, Hearthguard don't have the Rend and are pricey while most SCE stuff is in the same boat. The good news is we still blow up chaff and I'm seeing a lot more Monsters or elite units/pieces who don't want to stand on Objectives so KO can force opponents into some hard decisions. OBR and SCE are looking very resilient to just about everything though.....

the alpha strike list can build a mortal wound skew into it, though it's harder with the WLV nerf. Have to be cagier with how you set up the WLV now. 

 

There really isn't a lot of rend in the game, KO actually do rend better then a lot of factions, but rend just isn't really a thing. I struggle to think of a heavy rend army? A monster skew maybe.

 

On the other hand some armies are skewed for mortal wounds and that just ignores armor entirely.

[zilberfrid]

Though not about Kharadron: I think the Tryng wording change implies incoming non-order dwarves...

For a short while, you could take a Hellcannon in Thryng.

[Beliman]

Everblaze Comet only ticks when you set-up and Darkfire Daemonrift is not empowered by enemy wizards anymore. Ouch!

[Badlander86]

I'm struggling with the list building around these core battalions. It feels like everything is overcosted. I don't see how people can say Unleash Hell is anything special. I've had 3 interactions without only to kill 2-3 models while my attempts to kill off enemies just get completely undone by numerous ward saves and Rally. The table is ridiculously small that taking 2nd turn would leave you trailing in points. I'm not enjoying these restrictions.

I might not play the fixed skyports any more. Going to try my luck with a free Skyport to see if its worth the effort. Not getting my hopes up. We don't fair well in straight up trading, we don't have enough bodies if we bring boats, we dont have enough Firepower if we bring boats. Skyports  give us very difficult tax items or traits that are situationally useful but otherwise are fairly redundant.

[stratigo]

11 hours ago, stratigo said:

the alpha strike list can build a mortal wound skew into it, though it's harder with the WLV nerf. Have to be cagier with how you set up the WLV now. 

 

There really isn't a lot of rend in the game, KO actually do rend better then a lot of factions, but rend just isn't really a thing. I struggle to think of a heavy rend army? A monster skew maybe.

 

On the other hand some armies are skewed for mortal wounds and that just ignores armor entirely.

I want to elaborate on this.

 

Rend of any level is actually kind of devalued in the game right now, it's dramatically easy to have good save units stacking saves by three, and rend three is too rare for any army in the game at all to actually rely on it.

[Fert]

Q: Some abilities can be used ‘instead of a normal move’. Can I use these abilities if the unit is not allowed to make a normal move (e.g. when it is within 3" of an enemy unit)?

A: No.

So, no more pulling endrinriggers out of combat?  No more Zilfin hero phase move with them either?  We have new errata.. maybe new faq coming, as the previous faq clarified and let us do this...