AoS 2 - Fyreslayers Discussion

[Doko]

Again this preview is lackbuster.

A veeeeeery sligth updrage to our old runes.

This isnt even close to start to close the gap with the huge nerfs of every scroll.

 

Also is fun how they tells us as great and broken are this runes:

 

6 to wound only one time per game.

Median:1 mortal wound extra per each hearthguard unit

So a full unit of 15 heqrthguard of 400 points can one time per game dish out the broken amount of 3 mortals wounds extra........

 

Oh and one time per game and if you get a 6 in the rune you can with a 84% chance makes 1 extra mortal wound to units in melle...........its so broken that warrant get nerfed the aura and points of hearthguards or get nerfed to half attacks the vulkites.

Only broken things as runes stacking every game or +1 attack or attack twice could bring one glimpse hope to fs but.....if this gonna be all that we gonna see we are f.....

[Beliman]

7 hours ago, Doko said:

Again this preview is lackbuster.

100% agree with that.

[GrimDork]

8 hours ago, Doko said:

6 to wound only one time per game.

Unless I’ve missed it, nowhere does it say that you can only use each rune once per game? The MW on 6 to wound is the standard effect, you could use it every turn if you really wanted.

The only thing that is once per game is each heroes auto enhancement of a rune. You could still auto enhance the same rune twice in a game, you’d just have to use a different hero’s heroic action to do it. I can see the movement boost rune getting auto enhanced a lot (if it’s any good).

I agree it’s a bit lacklustre, but I think it’s best to see all the rules together till passing final judgement. 

My bigger interest/concern when it comes to FS is how it relates to using them in KO, Barak Thryng. So far it’s a nerf, as they won’t benefit from allegiance abilities/runes etc, it’s warscroll only which is not looking great 😕

[Malakithe]

2 hours ago, GrimDork said:

Unless I’ve missed it, nowhere does it say that you can only use each rune once per game? The MW on 6 to wound is the standard effect, you could use it every turn if you really wanted.

The only thing that is once per game is each heroes auto enhancement of a rune. You could still auto enhance the same rune twice in a game, you’d just have to use a different hero’s heroic action to do it. I can see the movement boost rune getting auto enhanced a lot (if it’s any good).

I agree it’s a bit lacklustre, but I think it’s best to see all the rules together till passing final judgement. 

My bigger interest/concern when it comes to FS is how it relates to using them in KO, Barak Thryng. So far it’s a nerf, as they won’t benefit from allegiance abilities/runes etc, it’s warscroll only which is not looking great 😕

Per the article your technically right but the current system is one rune activation per turn that cant be reused. They left out any info about if they are one time use or not. My guess is they are keeping the system the same and just like SCE Holy Commands. Single time use....which is trash

[GrimDork]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

Per the article your technically right but the current system is one rune activation per turn that cant be reused. They left out any info about if they are one time use or not. My guess is they are keeping the system the same and just like SCE Holy Commands. Single time use....which is trash

My apologies, I'm not fully clued up on FS (other than a passing interest in how they could be used for coalition).

[madmac]

Yeah the problem with both of the runes they showed is the same, 6+ ward and mortals on 6s to wound are boring, workmanship like abilities that usually have very little effect turn to turn but add up over the course of an entire game. Which means that making them effects that last a single turn, that you have to consider taking over things that are (hopefully) more impactful reduces their usefulness quite a lot.

[Malakithe]

3 hours ago, GrimDork said:

My apologies, I'm not fully clued up on FS (other than a passing interest in how they could be used for coalition).

All good 👍

[Malakithe]

1 hour ago, madmac said:

Yeah the problem with both of the runes they showed is the same, 6+ ward and mortals on 6s to wound are boring, workmanship like abilities that usually have very little effect turn to turn but add up over the course of an entire game. Which means that making them effects that last a single turn, that you have to consider taking over things that are (hopefully) more impactful reduces their usefulness quite a lot.

I just hate once per battle stuff in any form. And having to roll for battle traits is pretty ****** too

[KnowAnyThryng]

Quote

 

 

6 to wound only one time per game.

Median:1 mortal wound extra per each hearthguard unit

So a full unit of 15 heqrthguard of 400 points can one time per game dish out the broken amount of 3 mortals wounds extra........

 

If you all out attack (which you are almost guaranteed to do with 15 HGBZ) this equates to 4.4 mortal wounds on average.

With broadaxes this is almost 50% more damage against a 2+ save unit (which, lets face it, is the meta with the save stacking)

With poleaxes this is again about and extra 4.4 mortal wounds extra - which is roughly 40-45% more mortal wound output. 

This ur-gold rune is amazing against the high save meta where you need mortal wound output. Remember this lasts until your next hero phase, meaning potentially 3 combat phases of 40-50% increased output against high save units. this also works on throwing axes too... so your unit of 15 HGBZ also do an extra 1.25 mortal wound in shooting (every bit helps against those 2+ save beasts out there).

The nerf to HGBZ were warranted in my opinion - especially when you want more internal balance in the book. When in the ideal situation the HGBZ are just as good as they ever were , however they are harder to put in the ideal position when they are being aggressive. To be frank I think they were undercosted before - probably the best heavy infantry in the game in my opinion.

The warscroll changes actually buff vulkites on the charge slightly (and nerfs them when not charging by a decent margin), and when you look at the potential ur gold abilities plus the potential of stacking flamekeeper buffs, a 160 point unit of vulkites are freaking terrifying on the charge. There was no where close to any way to making them as scary in the old book. With 2 flamekeepers buffing their damage they can take a mega gargant out on their on on the charge (with fight on death enabled). The equivalent damage with HGBZ costs over double with the same buffs enabled.

Regarding flamekeepers, easy way to trigger their buff turn 1 is to take arcane tome/ally in mage with flaming head endless spell. Use it to break cohesion on a unit of vulkites so they lose 5 models, then proceed to heal them back up using rally over a few phases. Flamekeepers buff on an exponential curve and discourage enemies from killing your units. Yes they can be sniped, but at 80 points each it actually isn't too terrible if your enemy is shooting them instead of your units and they actually have our best character DPS output per cost aside from maybe berzerker.

Overall I am cautiously optimistic. The warscroll changes better define roles in the army, with HGBZ now being much better in an anvil role due to the 9" bubble nerf, the vulkites are much better in a hammer role due to the 50% additional attacks on the charge, +1 to charge horn and the additional ways to buff their damage. And this doesn't even look at any allegiance abilities outside of the preview.

 

Still want new units though... 

 

[Doko]

Vulkites with double axe charging have same stats than flesh eater gouls(close to hero and with 10+ models)

 

But.......vulkktes cost 165 and gouls 90? 

Granted vulkites have 20 w and gouls only one but for 180 there are 20 gouls with same wounds and save than vulkites but a 100% more attacks and base25" not 33" as vulkites.

And flesh eaters isnt even close to competitive so that says how good are vulkites.

 

[Lord Krungharr]

Probably too soon to tell, but are Broadaxe HGBs looking better than the pole-axes at this point?  I am favoring Broadaxes now in my head based on the annoying long chain bits that always break!  (always hated Wrathmongers for that reason too).

I could see Magmadroth-Riders being a unit, and battleline in certain subfaction or with certain general, like Beastclaw Raiders have for the Stonehorns/Thundertusks.  I think the kit could reasonably build those like someone said before on here, there are MANY Runesons, but only 1 Runefather.

[Malakithe]

Do we think there will be points changes?

[Baron Klatz]

My bet is some heroes get cheaper to match the Flamekeeper. That way the hero-heavy army can play more into either this edition’s herohammer or monster mash with cheaper Magmadroths they’ll probably be able to deploy as battleline ala Sons of Behemat(maybe the cover of the Soulbound Bestiary was a sign?  )

[Malakithe]

I hope they buff the ****** out of droths. They are some of the worst heromonsters in the game easily

[Clan's Cynic]

8 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Do we think there will be points changes?

Hike for the Flamekeeper if he is a <Priest>.

Hearthguard Berzerkers up another 10pts.

That'll be it. 

[Malakithe]

12 minutes ago, Clan&#x27;s Cynic said:

Hike for the Flamekeeper if he is a <Priest>.

Hearthguard Berzerkers up another 10pts.

That'll be it. 

lol god damnit

[Lord Krungharr]

I think we'll see coalition units available for all the new Duardin tomes.  That's a trend, and a good one I think.  

Maybe the prayers will be extra saucy like the Ur-Gold Runes too.   Still a chance we'll see some new units too.  The old rumor engine pics may pan out for some cool stuff; sometimes those take many months to come to fruition, like a fine pineapple growing patiently and secretly in your palm plant pot because at some point you put the top of a pineapple in the pot to give it a friend.  Then BAM, long spiky fire spirits just pop up!

[5kaven5lave]

I honestly think that building a Magmadroth is one of the most psychologically damaging experiences I’ve had in AoS. 

[Malakithe]

4 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

I honestly think that building a Magmadroth is one of the most psychologically damaging experiences I’ve had in AoS. 

lol so true

[Lord Krungharr]

Of course we're getting a new tome soon but thought I might give this sillyness a try.  Just a bunch of whackos with axes running around aside from the very durable debuffing Magmadroth general.  Probably not as good as Cockatrice spam in Beasts of Chaos, but still, something fun

 

 

[Bonesplitterz]

On 2/13/2022 at 4:33 AM, 5kaven5lave said:

I honestly think that building a Magmadroth is one of the most psychologically damaging experiences I’ve had in AoS. 

You never glued the metal Wyvern 😀

[Bonesplitterz]

On 2/15/2022 at 8:28 PM, Lord Krungharr said:

Of course we're getting a new tome soon but thought I might give this sillyness a try.  Just a bunch of whackos with axes running around aside from the very durable debuffing Magmadroth general.  Probably not as good as Cockatrice spam in Beasts of Chaos, but still, something fun

 

 

You need 6 leaders for two Warlord battalions and you only have 1 (Grimwrath Berserker and Gotrek are not leader, just heroes but even if they were, you would only have 5 heroes).

[Lord Krungharr]

Oops!  Missed both of those points.  Hmmm, not Leaders.  Makes fluffy sense.  Wish they weren't heroes either frankly.  Just Lone Wolves, like those old Space Wolves units from 40k.  Fun times with just a mob of dudes trying to outdo each other, although the Space Wolf ones had terminator armor and could have missile launchers on their backs I think.

[zilberfrid]

On 2/13/2022 at 10:33 AM, 5kaven5lave said:

I honestly think that building a Magmadroth is one of the most psychologically damaging experiences I’ve had in AoS. 

So not only can't it be built without a throne, but it's miserable as well?

Not the pinnacle of design.

[Clan's Cynic]

Magmadroth article.

Runesons on Magmadroths are now Battleline for Lofnir.