AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Victra]

27 minutes ago, schwabbele said:

After the mortals, at least this is how we play it in my group. Did they try to remove models before so your evos are out of reach? Or why the discussion. 

Yes, they try to remove models in order to be out of reach of the mortal wounds.

[schwabbele]

On 11/2/2019 at 1:48 PM, Victra said:

Yes, they try to remove models in order to be out of reach of the mortal wounds.

Damn  , i am not a 100% sure but usually warscroll abilities > rules , meaning we should be ok when we zap a unit directly after our evos attacks

 

edit: mentioned in the rules page 11 section 3 that warscroll take precedence over core rules. So zap on your buddy’s 💪

edit2: the reasoning is wrong, see corrected version 2 post down.

Edited November 4, 2019 by schwabbele

[Kevin K]

"after all attacks have been resolved" pretty clearly means that the attacks are resolved, i.e. wounds allocated and models removed.  After that, Evos pick a unit within 3".  They can absolutely try to remove models to try to take that away.

[Mark Williams]

Seems to me that they happen simultaneously. Resolving attacks doesn’t mean allocating wounds and removing models. That happens after attacks are resolved. Weird. Since the lightning blast causes more wounds I’d say it might happen before wound allocation...

[schwabbele]

4 hours ago, Kevin K said:

"after all attacks have been resolved" pretty clearly means that the attacks are resolved, i.e. wounds allocated and models removed.  After that, Evos pick a unit within 3".  They can absolutely try to remove models to try to take that away.

They clearly can not.

Core rules page7:

Quote

ALLOCATING WOUNDS Once all of a unit’s attacks have been resolved, add up the damage that was inflicted. The player commanding the target unit must then allocate a number of wounds to the target ....

 

[Juicy]

On 11/1/2019 at 3:18 PM, AdamR said:

It's Blood and Glory tomorrow and I still haven't picked my list yet... Not that I'm indecisive you see.

I have 2 choices ready to go.

List one is just units that I like or just finished painting really. It does fine against "regular" tourney lists but struggles against tier 1 cheese attacks.

The second list is more of a one trick pony. Has better answers to some optimised lists but will struggle against others.

Anyway - list 1

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (560)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Trait: Staunch Defender
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (220)
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
- Mount Trait: Pride Leader
Lord-Castellant (120)
Lord-Relictor (100)
- Prayer: Divine Light

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades

Units
3 x Evocators on Dracolines (300)
- 2x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades
10 x Skinks (70)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (110)
Celestar Ballista (110)
Celestar Ballista (110)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 110
 

And list 2 is

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Lord-Castellant (120)
- General
- Trait: Staunch Defender
Lord-Celestant (100)
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement
Lord-Relictor (100)
- Prayer: Translocation
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Celestial Staves (Artefact): Mindlock Staff
- Spell: Chain Lightning

Battleline
30 x Liberators (520)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 6x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Boltstorm Crossbows
- 1x Thunderbolt Crossbows

Units
5 x Decimators (180)
- 2x Starsoul Maces
5 x Protectors (180)
- 2x Starsoul Maces

Battalions
Skyborne Slayers (190)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 141
 

So, long story short "unkillable" (I wish) Stardrake vs Sword of Judgement assassin. 
Which to go for? Which is more fun to play against? I normally like tanky armies. List 1 obviously has the stardrake while list 2 has the potential of 30 immune to battleshock 2+ rr1 Libs...

Really love the 30lib squad. Its like a dream to field that

[Lucur]

1 hour ago, Juicy said:

Really love the 30lib squad. Its like a dream to field that

You misspelled "nightmare" there

[schwabbele]

Just a quick checkup on the Sequitors channeling. Am I correct that only if it is my opponents turn and he can do something "at the beginning" of the combat phase he gets to do it  before I can channel the Sequitors?  Took this https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/21/who-fights-first/  as reference.

[Raffonerd]

9 minutes ago, schwabbele said:

Just a quick checkup on the Sequitors channeling. Am I correct that only if it is my opponents turn and he can do something "at the beginning" of the combat phase he gets to do it  before I can channel the Sequitors?  Took this https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/21/who-fights-first/  as reference.

Yes. He can.

[Raffonerd]

On 11/3/2019 at 8:06 AM, schwabbele said:

They clearly can not.

Core rules page7:

 

Agree.

Cause you select to use the ability before wounds have been allocated. 

 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Raffonerd

[JudgeFredd]

Hey fellow Stormcasts,
yesterday I took a bit of a beating with my stormcast. A Vampirelord smoked basicaly my whole army. That was a bit depressing. Ever since I started AoS, I have some difficulties with the SCEs, sadly. I like them a lot, I have some models, but unfortunatly I can't play as often. After a bit of crying, I launched the opreration "Master the Stormcats". Do you know  good tactic advices (Youtube, or webside)?

Also, are the fyreslayers good allies für our golden boys? (or my golden Boys)

[schwabbele]

1 hour ago, JudgeFredd said:

A Vampirelord smoked basicaly my whole army.

Until you provide us with more information on what happened exactly , I recommend killing the vampire lord asap

[Mark Williams]

3 hours ago, schwabbele said:

Just a quick checkup on the Sequitors channeling. Am I correct that only if it is my opponents turn and he can do something "at the beginning" of the combat phase he gets to do it  before I can channel the Sequitors?  Took this https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/21/who-fights-first/  as reference.

I’ve been wondering about this myself. It seems to me that the order they channel doesn’t matter. It happens at the start of the combat phase so unless someone has abilities that happen outside of the combat phase, the order the ability goes off doesn’t matter. 

[JudgeFredd]

1 hour ago, schwabbele said:

Until you provide us with more information on what happened exactly , I recommend killing the vampire lord asap

Ok. 😂

Basically We Played 1k points, but 2vs2.

stormcast (me) & Seraphon vs. Legion of Blood & Fyreslayers. It was a spontaneous Game, so noone designed the List for this pairing.

i played

lord Arcanum, Lord castellant, 10 Sequitors, 5 liberators, 5 evocators, aetjerwings.

the liberators and aetherwings Stayed in Heaven for the random mission points (this worked very Good).

the rest was together on One flank.

the sequitors were fully buffed. 10 Zombiewolves and the vampirelord on Zombiedragon ran into my Wohle flank. The sequitors didn‘t Even kill the wolves. And the Vampirelord did. the Rest.
i know, that the vampirelord is pretty bad-A and that i made Some mistakes, but i don’t Know what i can do against These Monsters. (Hand the Same Problem with a bloodthirster). And the Sad thing is: je didn’t even sie the Rest of His army. In the third round, everything was Home. The vampirelord was back on Full health and the zombiewolves were back to. I did basicaly nothing.
I dont want to Give UP on the SCEs But i have Some difficulties. 
i havent GoT quite the grasp on them, so i thought i Had to go Deeper and search for good tactic tips for the SCEs.

i dont play super competitiv, i just want a fair Chance to win a Game with nice Lists.

i prefere to Play the Hammers of Sigmar, because i painted the Blue/Gold.

Edited November 4, 2019 by JudgeFredd

[Mark Williams]

Battle report with Gotrek.

Army List:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum (160)
- General
- Trait: We Cannot Fail
- Artefact: God-forged Blade
- Spell: Chain Lightning
Lord-Castellant (120)
Gavriel Sureheart (120)
Gotrek Gurnisson (520)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Sequitors (130)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Judicators (160)
- Boltstorm Crossbows
- 1x Thunderbolt Crossbows

Units
3 x Aetherwings (50)
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (140)
10 x Evocators (440)
- 10x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)
Malevolent Maelstrom (10)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 97
 

 

Mission was Shifting Objectives against Slaanesh with 3 keepers (shilaxy?), 2x10 seekers, 10 seekers, the contorted epitomy, and geminids of ul-gish. He had a battlion that let him get an extra command point if he rolled a D6 and got lower than the number of heroes in the battalion.

Round 1: Stormcast Eternals

The objective went center. I was given first turn and split my army up into 2 forces, set up on either side of the board. I dropped my shooting on the center objective for 3 points, and shot 4 daemonettes.

Left side:

Center and right side:

Round 1: Slaanesh

He moved forward on all sides and assaulted all 3 points. In the center I counter-charged 2 o f the Daemon Princes with my Aetherwings, but I lost everything but 2 Hurricane Raptors and lost the objective. On the right side, I lost 5 liberators and my Lord Castellant, but I spent a command point to bring the liberators back on a 5+, which dropped them behind the right objective. Gotrek killed the seekers and the daemon prince was outside of 6" of the objective. He won center and left side for 4 points.

Center:

Right:

Round 2: Stormcast

The objective went to the right side. I won priority. Dropped evocators and gavriel in the center and charged into a keeper of secretts in the middle, and the keeper on the right with Gotrek, killing both. 4 points to Stormcast.

Center:

Round 2: Slaanesh

He countered by summoning 2 new Keepers of Secrets. 2 Keepers wiped out the Evocators and the rest of the raptors in the center. On the left side I was down to 1 Sequitor and fighting a losing battle.  On the right, he charged a unit of Liberators on the right objective, but whiffed his attacks twice and the Liberators lived and held the objective. Slaanesh won 2 points.

Center:

Left:

Round 3 : Slaanesh

The objective went to the right side again. He won priority and finished off the last sequitor with spells, then charged and surrounded my Lord Arcanum (General), taking it down to 1 wound. On the right side, the keeper finished off the liberators, but was outside of range of the objective. 2 points to Slaanesh.

Round 3: Stormcast

My lord Arcanum finall died to the seekers on the left. Gotrek charged the keeper of secrets on the right and killed it to maintain control of Objective 3. 3 points to stormcast.

Round 4: Slaanesh

He won priority again, and summoned 6 fiends of Saanesh, and charged Gotrek with them and his general Keeper of Secrets. Gotrek tanked both units attacking twice, going down to 1 wound left. He wiped out the Fiends and kept them off the objective. 2 points to Slaanesh.

Right:

Round 4: Stormcast

Gotrek retreats from combat to stand on the right objective. 3 poionts to stormcast.

At this point it was 13 points to 9, and we'd been playing for 5 hours. Called the game at 1am. We didn't roll for priority or objective for round 5, as we'd agreed to call the game during the massive assault on Gotrek in round 4 (basically if he lived, the Stormcast automatically won).

If we'd have gone another round, I would've needed to win priority in order to either bring it to a tie or get a major victory. If I lost priority I would've needed insane luck to survive another round.

As it stood I got lucky with the objective constantly shifting to the right side, and I got lucky making saves for Gotrek over and over. He was a beast in combat, killing everything he touched, when he finally got a turn to attack.

Slaanesh player was very green and new to the army (only the 3rd game), but he could have won the game at almost any point if he'd just played a bit better. He just kept mindlessly charging everything into gotrek and getting more and more frustrated that he didn't die, but if he'd just left gotrek alone he could've easily won in the end by tabling the rest of my army and just camping objectives.

Fun game. Bit of an outlier, but Gotrek was 4-5 times more effective than the Celestan Prime has ever been in pretty much the same identical list in past games. I think I have my next tournament army unless I can think of something more interesting to do with it. I've resigned myself to never winning a tournament with this army, but it's nice to smash to have at least one element in my army that doesn't fold immediately the following turn it engages an enemy.

[schwabbele]

1 hour ago, JudgeFredd said:

Ok

Bringing a Monster to a 1k duo game is harsh 😬 . I thought the small Vampire

Your Sequitors had 5 special weapons with re-roll hits? That usually does some damage. Or did he kill off so many?

What were your evocators doing?  They should have been able to put some wounds  on the VampireLord on Dragon. Stay in 2nd line and if your opponent is not careful and comes within 3“ of them they can pile in and counter attack with their 2“ reach. Although risky in this case because vampire also has 2“ and 3“ reach... so your mileage may vary  

You could adapt your list and include 1 unit of vanguard raptors which would allow your aetherwings to interfere with your opponents charges. 

If you play this duo format more often you could shift to shooting and have your buddy cover melee. 
Shooting usually annoys people 😛 

Other then that sce is in a tricky place and if you don’t play competitive that often just try to talk to your buddies into taking more fluffy lists so both of you can enjoy the game while you are learning. 

[Horseburner]

Any thoughts and opinions on Castigators? I really like the models and I just got a bunch from a fellow player. But from what I've read so far, those points are put to better use elsewhere in almost any list.

Would they be acceptable as Judicators?

Edited November 4, 2019 by Horseburner

[Mark Williams]

1 hour ago, Horseburner said:

Any thoughts and opinions on Castigators? I really like the models and I just got a bunch from a fellow player. But from what I've read so far, those points are put to better use elsewhere in almost any list.

Would they be acceptable as Judicators?

They have a few minor uses:

1) End cap units to sacrifice against units that arrive on table edges.

2) cheap filler to get something more valuable in the sky instead of starting on the board.

3) In the battalion that combos off of a ballista (all dropping from the sky of course). I’d run 6 if using the battalion just to make sure it works, but it’s a decent combo and gives you cp, Artefact, and fewer drops. The battalion is in a weird place and I wouldn’t take it to a tournament but it could be very strong in small point games or doubles tournaments, etc.

But, they are generally pretty useless, sadly. And yeah I probably wouldn’t fuss if you wanted to use them as judicators. Maybe modify the arrow heads if you want to be really wysiwig.

[Turragor]

Got a question that has no doubt not come up often:

Drakesworn Templar - Skybolt Bow

If you score one or more hits on an enemy unit with this model's Skybolt Bow, add 1 to hit rolls for attacks made by friendly DRACOTHIAN GUARD units that target that enemy unit until the end of that turn.

Does this stack with 2 Templars.

I am convinced it doesn't, but I cant find the core ability stacking rules in my collection at the moment (I'll keep hunting).

[The World Tree]

41 minutes ago, Turragor said:

Got a question that has no doubt not come up often:

Drakesworn Templar - Skybolt Bow

If you score one or more hits on an enemy unit with this model's Skybolt Bow, add 1 to hit rolls for attacks made by friendly DRACOTHIAN GUARD units that target that enemy unit until the end of that turn.

Does this stack with 2 Templars.

I am convinced it doesn't, but I cant find the core ability stacking rules in my collection at the moment (I'll keep hunting).

Why wouldn't it stack? 

(Not sure why you would want to unless you have negative modifiers to contend with)

[Kevin K]

On 11/3/2019 at 2:06 AM, schwabbele said:

They clearly can not.

Core rules page7:

 

So the argument is that attacks are resolved prior to allocating wounds and the Evo's mortals come after resolving attacks which is the same time as allocating wounds. 

Looking at the wording of the rules again, I think you might be right.

[XReN]

16 hours ago, JudgeFredd said:

Ok. 😂

Basically We Played 1k points, but 2vs2.

stormcast (me) & Seraphon vs. Legion of Blood & Fyreslayers. It was a spontaneous Game, so noone designed the List for this pairing.

i played

lord Arcanum, Lord castellant, 10 Sequitors, 5 liberators, 5 evocators, aetjerwings.

the liberators and aetherwings Stayed in Heaven for the random mission points (this worked very Good).

the rest was together on One flank.

the sequitors were fully buffed. 10 Zombiewolves and the vampirelord on Zombiedragon ran into my Wohle flank. The sequitors didn‘t Even kill the wolves. And the Vampirelord did. the Rest.
i know, that the vampirelord is pretty bad-A and that i made Some mistakes, but i don’t Know what i can do against These Monsters. (Hand the Same Problem with a bloodthirster). And the Sad thing is: je didn’t even sie the Rest of His army. In the third round, everything was Home. The vampirelord was back on Full health and the zombiewolves were back to. I did basicaly nothing.
I dont want to Give UP on the SCEs But i have Some difficulties. 
i havent GoT quite the grasp on them, so i thought i Had to go Deeper and search for good tactic tips for the SCEs.

i dont play super competitiv, i just want a fair Chance to win a Game with nice Lists.

i prefere to Play the Hammers of Sigmar, because i painted the Blue/Gold.

Even if you don't play competitively, you want to optimise the hell out of your lists with what units you want to include and play objectives. The last time I faced VLoZD in 1000ish points game I've lost, but I killed almost everything, have been able to block off every gravesite and if luck was on my side - I would have won (we played old Relocation Orb). 

When you get into game against murderous monsters like VLoZDs, Terrorgeists, Keepers, Bloodthirsters you need to identify what you are able to do, if you're able to kill them - do it (it's strongly recommended to build a list that can), if you can't than avoid it at all costs whille making sure you are scoring more than opponent. 

To kill those monster you either need good shooting (Longstrikes) or counter charge them with strong melee unit such as Evocators or Dracoths after they kill or get stuck in your screening/vanguard unit.

I don't know good tactics sources, unfortunately.

[XReN]

On 11/2/2019 at 2:18 AM, AdamR said:

Slayers assemble!

 

How did Blood and Glory went?

[JudgeFredd]

On 11/2/2019 at 12:18 AM, AdamR said:

Slayers assemble!

 

Wow! I love your army! Almost only models from the beginning! Great. This army could be a goal.
How did it go?

[SchleuderMann2]

Hey there,

next  friday I`m going to meet  the new beastclaws in a 2k Match?

just know that their frostlord on stonehorn is pretty strong...

Has anybody some advices for me? Is there another way then 4 ballista astrals or anvilstrike to face them?