Vaporlocke Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 12 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said: Just putting two Ghorgans in our lists is going to make our opponents pile in in a manner thats going to make them lose efficiency. Also, some of ehat you said was really reaching. Like, the Bestigors thing. Most things either deploy in 10s or 5s. And if its in 5s and they reinforce the unit then getting hit by Bestigors is worse off for that opponent because now we're threatening a target that has more significance than before. It looks like a Nerf on paper, but we're actually winning out on the exchange. It's not a direct nerf, but we are going to lose it more often as MSU gets pushed more. Even chip damage from our Ungor Raiders knocking a unit of 10 down to 9 before combat is going to remove it, and while it's not huge its still one more thing stacked against us. The one I don't think people have noticed yet is that the smaller board size is going to reduce our speed advantage we have over slower armies. There have been many games I've won because I was able to get to objectives faster than my opponent could reinforce them. The addition of secondary scoring is going to hurt too. Most of them seem to revolve around killing, something we tend to struggle with. All in all I think the changes have been an overall negative to us, and it's pretty much just kicking us when we're already down. I hope someone does find something that will work for us, even if it is Dragon Ogres or Bullgors(both of which I've avoided collecting over the years because I find the models to be terrible) but I will happily drop some ugly units on the table if it means not being completely embarrassed by the final score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinfullyvannila Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Vaporlocke said: Even chip damage from our Ungor Raiders knocking a unit of 10 down to 9 before combat is going to remove it, Rofl; dont do it then. No amount of favorable balance is going to mitigate a bonehead move like that. Edited June 16, 2021 by Sinfullyvannila Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddpainting Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 Grashrak Fellhoof can finally fit into battalions now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 29 minutes ago, Maddpainting said: Grashrak Fellhoof can finally fit into battalions now. And cant take spells from our own lore depending on how you read that argument in the rules thread lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddpainting Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 17 minutes ago, The Red King said: And cant take spells from our own lore depending on how you read that argument in the rules thread lol What do you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 18 minutes ago, Maddpainting said: What do you mean? He's a unique character and enhancements (which grant access to spells outside of the warscroll) can never be given to unique characters. Now the spell enhancement says you take it and ALL wizards in your army benefit but the section for enhancements clearly says enhancements are taken and GIVEN to units in your army and since unique characters can't be GIVEN enhancements named characters can't access their own spell lore. It explains why Alarielles latest warscroll is clear that she knows all spells from the lore of deep woods but until they clarify it anybody without a new warscroll that is unique is just SoL apparently. Depending on how you read it. I personally think they clearly didnt mean to lock named characters out of using spells and prayers but (possibly in an effort to future proof their rules) that is currently how it seems to be written. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Shepard Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 It's possible that the rule is trying to tell you that you can't select Unique Character's for enhancements but since Spell Lore Enhancements are applied to the the army as a whole this could super seed that limitation. It's something that is going to need to be FAQed, one way or the other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popisdead Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 17 hours ago, Vaporlocke said: Do you need to touch every fire you see to know that it's hot or can you lean on past experiences to predict future outcomes? talking about touching fire,... sigh... 1 hour ago, Maddpainting said: Grashrak Fellhoof can finally fit into battalions now. huzzah! 39 minutes ago, The Red King said: It explains why Alarielles latest warscroll is clear that she knows all spells from the lore of deep woods but until they clarify it anybody without a new warscroll that is unique is just SoL apparently. I'm wondering more if that was an issue because the Warsong Rev does and it allows her to be a more useful caster. The lore isn't that good even. 30 minutes ago, Chaos Shepard said: It's possible that the rule is trying to tell you that you can't select Unique Character's for enhancements but since Spell Lore Enhancements are applied to the the army as a whole this could super seed that limitation. It's something that is going to need to be FAQed, one way or the other. I would suspect this more the case. So much for clearest set of rules naah they are pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganigumo Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 Rumors of unit size changes for BoC in the GHB, What do you guys want/expect? Ungors going up to 20s would make sense, although we'd lose out on cheap screens. It would be easy to rebox them with double the contents too. I've wanted Tzaangors to go down to 5s for a while now, but with the new reinforcement limits it would probably be best if they didn't Maybe Gors will also go to 20s? New coherency doesn't make them good at screening anyways. although they'll still be pretty bad either way. 60 Gors will at least cover a massive amount of board space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popisdead Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Ganigumo said: Rumors of unit size changes for BoC in the GHB, What do you guys want/expect? Ungors going up to 20s would make sense, although we'd lose out on cheap screens. It would be easy to rebox them with double the contents too. I've wanted Tzaangors to go down to 5s for a while now, but with the new reinforcement limits it would probably be best if they didn't Maybe Gors will also go to 20s? New coherency doesn't make them good at screening anyways. although they'll still be pretty bad either way. 60 Gors will at least cover a massive amount of board space. TBH i want to see Ungors as 20-40 so 20 min would allow them to still get up to 40. And I dislike the idea of 10 Ungors even if they are screening. Only because I want to see Gors as 2W as 10-20. Obviously I want Bestigors to be 2W also and oh lordy this one hurt the most,.. remembering Bullgors were 4W.... sigh. 40 1W Ungors and 20 2W gors gives units their purpose more to me. Especially as they are not improving Gors as an offensive unit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinfullyvannila Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) Just thought of something, we can probably occasionally use the Bray Shamans spell in conjunction with terrain to make our opponent move their models in such a way that they'll lose extra models when we remove a model with a Ghorgon or Giant. For example, if there is a straight wall, we position a unit behind it. Bray shaman casts Devolve, now that unit will probably have to flatten out up against the wall. Its not going to come up every game but we can look for opportunities to do it. Edited June 16, 2021 by Sinfullyvannila Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 So with the new third edition having risen to the living, I kinda wann try it out. So I asked a friend of mine, if he shares the same interest as me, and well I’ll be playing a game of the new edition on Saturday in a week (since I won’t have time this weekend at all😭😭) So here’s the list: Gavespawn-Beasts of Chaos: core battalions: command encourage:345p 1 Beastlord:95p -artefact mutating gnarwlblade -Unraveling Aura (commandtrait) 1 bray shaman:100p spell: vicious stranglethorns Tzaangor shaman:150p Artefact: Knowing eye spell: tendrills of atrophy linebreaker:500p heroes:170p dragon ogor shaggoth:170p spell: sundering blades Behemoths:330p Chaos Gargant:170p Ghorgon:160p battleline:570p 3x10 Bestigors:360p 1x30 Gors:210p -(shields) others:490p 3Dragon ogors:130p -2x1 glaives, 1x1 double hand weapons 3dragon ogors:130p -3x1 crushers. 3Tzaangor enlightened:180p (Disc version) 1chaos Spawn:50p endless spells: cogs: 80p total points: 1985 total wounds: 152 your thoughts are welcomed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddpainting Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 Meh, i'm tired of wish listing. I'm just waiting for the faqs and having fun playing 3.0 for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Shepard Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 I know that I am looking forward to taking a Doombull and giving them the Arcane Tome to make them a wizard. Flaming Weapon might be a good go to, though the Ghur spell Metamorphosis could also work. Hell you could just charge up Arcane Bolt and charge some one for 2D3 Mortal wounds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordrim Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) For anyone of you who have checked out Zealot Minature's minotaur models and was interested in size and propotions here is a couple of pictures. This one is the berserker one from them. Height is roughly same ronGW's altought this one is not as steroidy. Berserker mino is also one of the shorter ones from zealot. I replaced the axe blades with bullgor great axe blade. Also here is picture next to doombull. Edited June 17, 2021 by Nordrim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 49 minutes ago, Nordrim said: For anyone of you who have checked out Zealot Minature's minotaur models and was interested in size and propotions here is a couple of pictures. This one is the berserker one from them. Height is roughly same ronGW's altought this one is not as steroidy. Berserker mino is also one of the shorter ones from zealot. I replaced the axe blades with bullgor great axe blade. Also here is picture next to doombull. Love these guys, have 6 already. I knew they were bigger than GW but I didn't realize quite how much bigger. They fit on 50's though so it's fine with me. As an aside the artwork on Totalwarhammers khorne minotaur is almost exactly my scheme for mine and I'm about to look a lot less original lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddpainting Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) EDIT Added PicLeaders Beastlord +5 Doombull +15 Dragon Ogor Shaggoth +15 Grashrak Fellhoof +10 Great-Bray Shaman 0 Tzaangor Shaman -15 Units 10 x Gors +5 10 x Ungors +10 Bestigors +15 Bullgors +15 Centigors +10 Chaos Spawn +5 Chaos Warhounds 0 Cockatrice +5 Dragon Ogors +20 Razorgors +5 Tuskgor Chariots +5 Tzaangor Enlightened -5 Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc 0 Tzaangor Skyfires -5 Tzaangors of Beasts of Chaos -5 Ungor Raiders +10Behemoths Chaos Gargant +10 Chimera 0 Cygor 0 Ghorgon +10 Jabberslythe +5Endless Spells Wildfire Taurus +30 Doomblast Dirgehorn -5 Ravening Direflock +10 Edited June 17, 2021 by Maddpainting 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Maddpainting said: I don't know if posting the points is allowed here, so I hope just posting the "Difference" is ok. If not let me know.Leaders Beastlord +5 Doombull +15 Dragon Ogor Shaggoth +15 Grashrak Fellhoof +10 Great-Bray Shaman 0 Tzaangor Shaman -15 Units 10 x Gors +5 10 x Ungors +10 Bestigors +15 Bullgors +15 Centigors +10 Chaos Spawn +5 Chaos Warhounds 0 Cockatrice +5 Dragon Ogors +20 Razorgors +5 Tuskgor Chariots +5 Tzaangor Enlightened -5 Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc 0 Tzaangor Skyfires -5 Tzaangors of Beasts of Chaos -5 Ungor Raiders +10Behemoths Chaos Gargant +10 Chimera 0 Cygor 0 Ghorgon +10 Jabberslythe +5Endless Spells Wildfire Taurus +30 Doomblast Dirgehorn -5 Ravening Direflock +10 I think you can post the screenshot it isnt a leak cause we're past the NDA date judging from the fact the video exists. Send it to me if you dont wanna post it here please. Our allies table matters a lot to my army! I'm also really surprised by these changes. Cities had multiple point decreases but for us it's only the tzaangor units? Edited June 17, 2021 by The Red King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaporlocke Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Maddpainting said: I don't know if posting the points is allowed here, so I hope just posting the "Difference" is ok. If not let me know.Leaders Beastlord +5 Doombull +15 Dragon Ogor Shaggoth +15 Grashrak Fellhoof +10 Great-Bray Shaman 0 Tzaangor Shaman -15 Units 10 x Gors +5 10 x Ungors +10 Bestigors +15 Bullgors +15 Centigors +10 Chaos Spawn +5 Chaos Warhounds 0 Cockatrice +5 Dragon Ogors +20 Razorgors +5 Tuskgor Chariots +5 Tzaangor Enlightened -5 Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc 0 Tzaangor Skyfires -5 Tzaangors of Beasts of Chaos -5 Ungor Raiders +10Behemoths Chaos Gargant +10 Chimera 0 Cygor 0 Ghorgon +10 Jabberslythe +5Endless Spells Wildfire Taurus +30 Doomblast Dirgehorn -5 Ravening Direflock +10 We came out a lot better than I expected overall. I was sure the Shaggoth was going to go way up after gaining monster and hero actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popisdead Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 18 hours ago, Chaos Shepard said: I know that I am looking forward to taking a Doombull and giving them the Arcane Tome to make them a wizard. Flaming Weapon might be a good go to, though the Ghur spell Metamorphosis could also work. Hell you could just charge up Arcane Bolt and charge some one for 2D3 Mortal wounds. My buddy just got the new VC (Soulblight?) and he's taking stuff he thinks is cool and fun. I'm planning on taking Warherd,.. time to green stuff a Gandalf hat 1 minute ago, Maddpainting said: I don't know if posting the points is allowed here, so I hope just posting the "Difference" is ok. If not let me know.Leaders Beastlord +5 Doombull +15 Dragon Ogor Shaggoth +15 Grashrak Fellhoof +10 Great-Bray Shaman 0 Tzaangor Shaman -15 Units 10 x Gors +5 10 x Ungors +10 Bestigors +15 Bullgors +15 Centigors +10 Chaos Spawn +5 Chaos Warhounds 0 Cockatrice +5 Dragon Ogors +20 Razorgors +5 Tuskgor Chariots +5 Tzaangor Enlightened -5 Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc 0 Tzaangor Skyfires -5 Tzaangors of Beasts of Chaos -5 Ungor Raiders +10Behemoths Chaos Gargant +10 Chimera 0 Cygor 0 Ghorgon +10 Jabberslythe +5Endless Spells Wildfire Taurus +30 Doomblast Dirgehorn -5 Ravening Direflock +10 Oh, they've been leaked? I cannot imagine differences are an issue. This seems less sweeping than 40k got. Actually seeing stuff go down means they made an attempt to address balance and not "everything goes up 5/10/20 points" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinfullyvannila Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Pretty decent points adjustments. The expectations were a 10% global increase so the fact that some of our units went down is a win. Ive only compared it with GSG and I dont think any of theirs went down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 "Allies: slaves to darkness." Cool. Cool cool cool. They couldve just wrote "nobody in the studio plays beasts" because theres no way anyone with a passing knowledge of the army didnt realize they invalidated every god marked army and then didnt even allow them to ally. Sure maybe the book will fix it. Eventually. But in the meantime I just can't play the army they sold me. Cool. Tangentially related but Soulsnare shackles now completely denies charges to anyone within 6 inches of it so its official. Someone on the design team lost his sentinel bunker to a turn 1 charge from gore gruntas and decided that nobody gets melee anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feorag Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 something useful for you guys 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Televiper11 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 I wish we could ally across more of Chaos. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, Televiper11 said: I wish we could ally across more of Chaos. We cant even be allied IN to other chaos armies. Somebody legitimately just doesnt like our army I think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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