AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Chaos Shepard]

I would like to come out and defend the current Bullgor models. I don't think they are half as bad as a lot of people carry on about them. Would I call them attractive models, no I would not. Now I could argue, that the point, but I honestly wouldn't mind if they looked better myself. However, they are currently more than functional, especially when compared to other models out there. First off they are plastic. So much resin and even some metal out there that needs replacing before them. Next lets bring up there anatomy. Sure its more than a little roid central, but its far better than the current Slaves to Darkness's Raiders and miles better than the Skaven monkey rats. Last lets talk about their posses. Maybe not a flamboyant or energetic as some out there but they do have a nice variety built into the kit. Sometimes when a pose it too outlandish, it becomes a little emersion braking when you see it 2 or 3 times in the same unit. The current Bullgors have a nice split of different leg stances, lead with the left foot, lead with the right foot. and centered. Mix in a bunch of different arms and the Bullgors flow together without looking like a bunch of identical copies. Now look at Chaos Warriors and most of Cities of Sigmar whos models all lead with the same foot. It looked fine in rank and file but does not transition well to round bases.

I would also like to say the most of the ugliness of the model can be addressed with a different paint scheme. The hard transition between what if fur and what is skin, always looks clunky to me. I generally paint the model to look like the fur covers most of the body, going to a soft transition of skin tones around the mouth and belly.

Is the model perfect, no. I do have my own personal issue with it. If I could change one thing I would have to be the legs and feet. Something more less plantigrade and more unguligrade, like my custom Doombull.

There are some other minor tweaks here and there that I could make but my point still stands.

Ultimately I wouldn't be upset if they went and updated the kit, but I really don't think it as bad or in need of an update, especially when compared to a lot of other stuff.

[Marius au]

Really enjoyed that.  Although I play a lot of armies the beasts are one of my faves.

Hopefully the rise of life will signal a reaction from the Shadowgave, and perhaps there are some unintended consequences for the Sylvaneth with their ritual.

[Maddpainting]

The current models legs are freaking awful, i hate them. I like yours much better

[The Red King]

On a positive note I have to say. It may not be competitive but against similarly powered armies (StD, HoS) in my local meta against average players like myself, Blades of Khorne Beastmen (brass despoilers with characters) is always fun to play and I'm 2-0 so far.

 

Bullgors and even ghorgon that don't get shot off the table can really put out some damage and while everything dies a painful death, the gors die just slow enough to win on objectives if you're lucky. The army isn't where I want it to be but I can enjoy it either way.

[Skreech Verminking]

3 hours ago, The Red King said:

On a positive note I have to say. It may not be competitive but against similarly powered armies (StD, HoS) in my local meta against average players like myself, Blades of Khorne Beastmen (brass despoilers with characters) is always fun to play and I'm 2-0 so far.

 

Bullgors and even ghorgon that don't get shot off the table can really put out some damage and while everything dies a painful death, the gors die just slow enough to win on objectives if you're lucky. The army isn't where I want it to be but I can enjoy it either way.

I’m not so sure about the ghorgon.

He is a gorgeous mode, but sadly lacking a lot of punch.

The last three battles, he wasn’t even able to hit, although that is probably just me rolling very poorly😂.

Still I love him and always use him if possible

[peasant]

10 hours ago, Chaos Shepard said:

I would like to come out and defend the current Bullgor models. I don't think they are half as bad as a lot of people carry on about them. Would I call them attractive models, no I would not. Now I could argue, that the point, but I honestly wouldn't mind if they looked better myself. However, they are currently more than functional, especially when compared to other models out there. First off they are plastic. So much resin and even some metal out there that needs replacing before them. Next lets bring up there anatomy. Sure its more than a little roid central, but its far better than the current Slaves to Darkness's Raiders and miles better than the Skaven monkey rats. Last lets talk about their posses. Maybe not a flamboyant or energetic as some out there but they do have a nice variety built into the kit. Sometimes when a pose it too outlandish, it becomes a little emersion braking when you see it 2 or 3 times in the same unit. The current Bullgors have a nice split of different leg stances, lead with the left foot, lead with the right foot. and centered. Mix in a bunch of different arms and the Bullgors flow together without looking like a bunch of identical copies. Now look at Chaos Warriors and most of Cities of Sigmar whos models all lead with the same foot. It looked fine in rank and file but does not transition well to round bases.

I would also like to say the most of the ugliness of the model can be addressed with a different paint scheme. The hard transition between what if fur and what is skin, always looks clunky to me. I generally paint the model to look like the fur covers most of the body, going to a soft transition of skin tones around the mouth and belly.

Is the model perfect, no. I do have my own personal issue with it. If I could change one thing I would have to be the legs and feet. Something more less plantigrade and more unguligrade, like my custom Doombull.

There are some other minor tweaks here and there that I could make but my point still stands.

Ultimately I wouldn't be upset if they went and updated the kit, but I really don't think it as bad or in need of an update, especially when compared to a lot of other stuff.

Im trying since months ago to find a color scheme that really improves the bullgors, a dark skin would suit them, something like that

[The Red King]

3 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

I’m not so sure about the ghorgon.

He is a gorgeous mode, but sadly lacking a lot of punch.

The last three battles, he wasn’t even able to hit, although that is probably just me rolling very poorly😂.

Still I love him and always use him if possible

Well to be fair my game last night they did great but it could be because on the turn they hit I had popped both slaughter triumphant and the once a game ability to reroll wounds from brass despoiler (plus the reroll 1's) resulting in something like 16 wounds out of one (into chaos warriors) and 15 from the other (into chaos knights). Sure they could probably cost less but they have potential even if they're probably pretty swingy. 

[Maddpainting]

My Cygors won me a game vs Lumineth. The Lumineth player has to target them first now lol (I through a double Hungering Warherd list together for him to play a few quick games so he could learn the army, I have 2 Cygors and Ghorgons so I used them).

[Myrdin]

Since we are sharing some bulls, these are mine
They are the Mierce ones and as you can see on some of the pictures, it is exactly as mentioned. The weapons got broken off during transport some even into multiple pieces. Just a pain in the a** to deal with honestly. But they look so much better than the GW ones in my oppinion. Admittedly pretty bad picture quality.

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Myrdin

[Televiper11]

Spamming Cygors is a solid anti-Meta pick right now.

[Graywater]

@Myrdinthese look great. Mierce is nice because it gives you good variety in poses. I personally prefer the zealot sculpts, but there aren't many of them and I hate duplicate models, which is a problem when I want to run at least 12 of them. Compound that with the breakage issues resin has, and im back to hoping for new plastic kits...

Edited May 27, 2021 by Graywater

[Graywater]

Double post 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Graywater

[Popisdead]

13 hours ago, The Red King said:

On a positive note I have to say. It may not be competitive but against similarly powered armies (StD, HoS) in my local meta against average players like myself, Blades of Khorne Beastmen (brass despoilers with characters) is always fun to play and I'm 2-0 so far.

Arbroeal Walrus did a lot of that and I dug up his lists from the Blades of Khorne thread.  It was looking pretty solid.  Since you can spam prayers having Bullgors hit on 2s and wound on 2s with stacked attacks made them so solid.  It was a Khorne allegiance though.

9 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

I’m not so sure about the ghorgon.

He is a gorgeous mode, but sadly lacking a lot of punch.

The last three battles, he wasn’t even able to hit, although that is probably just me rolling very poorly😂.

Still I love him and always use him if possible

I keep mentioned hitting on 4s feels like 6s.  I've had mine do 1 wound and I've had mine do 20 wounds.  In 8th I ran a Doombull, Ghorgon, and Razorgor as a trio pack hitting things.  I wish MSU would overcome some of the dice spiking that can occur.

7 hours ago, peasant said:

Im trying since months ago to find a color scheme that really improves the bullgors, a dark skin would suit them, something like that

I think Dark skin works best.  Classic colours of Bestial Brown and shaded with Scorched brown and maybe highlight using Vermin brown as it's more red and will be less chalky which can happen with bleached bone and Scorched Brown. (sorry I use next to no new colours so far other than contrast Snakebite, I'm sure there are good replacements)

4 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

My Cygors won me a game vs Lumineth. The Lumineth player has to target them first now lol (I through a double Hungering Warherd list together for him to play a few quick games so he could learn the army, I have 2 Cygors and Ghorgons so I used them).

A worthy collection and effort.  To defend the kit, a couple years ago there were loads of really cool conversions of the Ghorgon on social media.  Having painted a couple, if you can remove most the skulls it's an enjoyable model to paint.  I watched Jason and the Argonauts a while ago and wanted to run/own 4 Cygor

3 hours ago, Televiper11 said:

Spamming Cygors is a solid anti-Meta pick right now.

Hmmm,.. strangey strangey.  

 

In the end the bullgor models are poorly designed.  We are polishing turds painting and converting them up to be better.

[Feorag]

6 hours ago, Televiper11 said:

Spamming Cygors is a solid anti-Meta pick right now.

Yeah they're not bad I love running a pair! 

[Popisdead]

1 hour ago, Feorag said:

Yeah they're not bad I love running a pair! 

My favourite quote about them is from a guy who was the Ghorros, Rambull champion of 8th ed from the Herdstone days:

"they chuck rocks,... um.... they chuck rocks"

 

I've had mixed results.  I tend to outflank my 4 monsters in Darkwalkers and push the Bullgors forward slower.  I think being cheaper is a decent shift for them.  They will hit a lone mage on a 5+ with a rr (i believe internet-stats makes that a 3+, so one should hit, and hopefully get 3.5 wounds through.  

[Feorag]

24 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

My favourite quote about them is from a guy who was the Ghorros, Rambull champion of 8th ed from the Herdstone days:

"they chuck rocks,... um.... they chuck rocks"

 

I've had mixed results.  I tend to outflank my 4 monsters in Darkwalkers and push the Bullgors forward slower.  I think being cheaper is a decent shift for them.  They will hit a lone mage on a 5+ with a rr (i believe internet-stats makes that a 3+, so one should hit, and hopefully get 3.5 wounds through.  

Oh wow Herdstone.. is that even still a thing? I think warseer and Dakka are probably still about. 

I quite like running two as local meta has a lot of monster casters so on good days they're gone in turn two and i can dispel the little casters a bit better!

I've been running this with a fair amount of success 7/5 atm, Spawn and 2 x Cygor aren't in the battalion.

It's going to be a shame when BoC lose their battalions in 3.0

Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos
- Greatfray: Gavespawn
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Doombull (100)
- General
- Command Trait: Unravelling Aura
- Artefact: Champion's Doomcloak
Doombull (100)
- Artefact: Mutating Gnarlblade
Beastlord (90)

Battleline
6 x Bullgors (280)
- Great Axes
6 x Bullgors (280)
- Great Axes
10 x Gors (70)
- Gor-Blades & Beastshields

Units
5 x Centigors (80)
1 x Chaos Spawn (50)
10 x Bestigors (120)

Behemoths
Cygor (140)
Cygor (140)
Ghorgon (160)
Ghorgon (160)

Battalions
Brass Despoilers (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 160

 

[Skreech Verminking]

23 hours ago, Myrdin said:

Since we are sharing some bulls, these are mine
They are the Mierce ones and as you can see on some of the pictures, it is exactly as mentioned. The weapons got broken off during transport some even into multiple pieces. Just a pain in the a** to deal with honestly. But they look so much better than the GW ones in my oppinion. Admittedly pretty bad picture quality.

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

They look amazing😍,

gotta have to buy some myself

22 hours ago, Televiper11 said:

Spamming Cygors is a solid anti-Meta pick right now.

I never thought I would hear anybody ever say that.

A few more pointsreduction, and that thing becomes op😂

Edited May 28, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[The Red King]

Potato cam pics from BR:Kragnos going around show beastlords going up 5 points and jabberslyth going up 25.

[Myrdin]

23 minutes ago, The Red King said:

Potato cam pics from BR:Kragnos going around show beastlords going up 5 points and jabberslyth going up 25.

If this is true then...

Lol.... Beastlord is good only because of Gnarled blade (yeah sure you can have a second one with Volcanix Axe I guess).

Why Jabberslythe, a thing that hasnt seen proper table ever since its massive nerf is going up in points is beyond me. Do these people even play their own game ? (most likely not. or if they do probably just the top meta armies, thus just seeing the rules on the warscroll makes them think "this is too cheap for how good it is"). Bruh...

[The Red King]

15 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

If this is true then...

Lol.... Beastlord is good only because of Gnarled blade (yeah sure you can have a second one with Volcanix Axe I guess).

Why Jabberslythe, a thing that hasnt seen proper table ever since its massive nerf is going up in points is beyond me. Do these people even play their own game ? (most likely not. or if they do probably just the top meta armies, thus just seeing the rules on the warscroll makes them think "this is too cheap for how good it is"). Bruh...

I can only hope and pray it means they're getting some kind of rewrite on their scroll.

[Chaos Shepard]

This has to be good news. If they have points listed in BR Kragnos, that mean they had to have warscroll rewrites.

 

(edit)

I dare not hope, but maybe a command ability that isn't trash.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Chaos Shepard

[Televiper11]

3 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

They look amazing😍,

gotta have to buy some myself

I never thought I would hear anybody ever say that.

A few more pointsreduction, and that thing becomes op😂

Ideally I’d run 4 against certain top-Mets armies

[tupavko]

Ok guys so we have new KEYWORD abilities in Kragnos:

Gors (unit not keyword)can repeat charge rolls if they were set in ambush

WARHERDS get to roll on a charge and on a 4+ they deal d3 mortal wounds (add 2 if they are a HER0 or more than 3)

THUNDERSCORN roll a dice at the end of  a combat fase on a 4+ you can heal one wound (add 2 if it's a hero or there are more than 3 models); then roll for each enemey unit within 1'' on a 4+ they suffer 1 mortal wound (add 2 if hero or more than 3 models)

These are in addition the the other rules we already have

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by tupavko

[Skreech Verminking]

Just now, tupavko said:

Ok guys so we have new KEYWORD abilities in Kragnos:

Really, I mean I did see a points increase on the beastlord, but I actually didn’t think we would see any keyword updates, but it is beginning to become very interesting

[tupavko]

The Beastlord is basically the same:

- got run and charge

- does NOT reroll hits anymore, but gets exploding 6s vs. heroes

 

Jabber-thing is still pretty much the same but "Aura of Madness now is:

"roll 3d6 for an each enemy unit within 3'' of this model selected to fight. If the result is superior to the Bravery value of that unit, the unit gains +1A on its melee weapons but for each to hit roll of 1 it suffers 1 mortal wound after all of its attacks have been solved."

the Battalion is cool but limited to the box content (shaman, named so no artifacts) 2 units of Bullgors and a Ghorgon.
All WARHERD units get to add 1 to hit rolls ONLY if wholy within 12'' of the named Shaman

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by tupavko