relic456 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Aaranis said: Hide contents 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaranis Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 37 minutes ago, phlp said: is it possible, that they only »update« the new battalions :/? Don't think so, or else they wouldn't include all the other factions. There is a FAQ planned for December so this is probably it, alongside some other changes maybe. Also, WD just went on preorder Saturday, I expect at least a week after its release before the Battalions are even included in the Warscroll Builder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dudemeister Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Rabidweasel said: I'm struggling to come up with a list that i feel will work, using the restrictive rules around the Meeting engagement games. I want to use Lady O but with only 1k points she's almost 1/4 of the force, however will be a force to contend with provided i can screen her, or drop her in to go "boo" in their table edge. If you take Lady O and a generic hero as general with The Ruler of the Spirit Host, you force your opponent to make a tough call. Go for the hero that keeps on reviving frigging Spirit Hosts/Hexwraiths or go for Lady O who's going mental on the front? Speaking of Ruler of the Spirit Host, resurrection becomes more powerful the smaller sized the games are. In a 2000pts game, it's a tiny percentage that's being brought back on the table. In a 1k game, it's not only a larger share of your points, it's also harder for the opponent to kill enough as they don't have several units all ganging up to completely wipe them out. In 40k Necrons benefit greatly for the same reason in anything less than 1.5k. And that's also what makes Olynder's 7 wounds tankier and her self-healing much stronger. Meanwhile many other armies struggle with the opposite. Slaanesh's, Khorne's, Tzeentch's etc. summoning really suffers because they don't get enough heroes, units or wizards to greatly benefit for their summoning points. And they're still among the priviliged who, over the course of the game, basically play with more than 1000 points because a dead unit isn't just lost as there's more to come later. For most other armies a unit getting depleted -even just a little- by Spirit Hosts while they keep coming back, get more and more of a disadvantage over the course of the game. So yeah, try Lady O and maybe the Spirit Torment as general with Ruler of the Spirit Host. He can bring back a Spirit Host or two per turn and his own ability can either heal him or Lady O or revive Harridans. 10 Harridans are perfectly fine as your opponent won't have many more bigger units and Harridans can chew through those chaff units. When it comes to artefacts, we're really spoiled with choice. Try out the Ulgu-artefact "Betrayer's Crown". Your Spirit Torment will accompany the Spirit Hosts and they cannot deal with hordes. This once-per-battle artefact will deal 1/3 of the unit's size worth of mortal wounds to them before they can even attack. An artefact that's quite strong in small games and reduces the threat of a bad matchup for your "Spirit flank". Midnight Tome is also nice because now you'd have 3 casts and denies that you can pack full of defensive spells like shademist, spectral tether and soul cage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabidweasel Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 That's fantastic, thanks for the advice. I'll have a ponder tonight and come up with some lists, for the moment we're sticking to just basic's as a lot of us are relatively new to the game so these tourny's are designed for new players so we aren't using different realm artifacts just yet. I don't actually have any spirit hosts either...... they are on the list..... so will have to use Chainrasps for now. I'm guessing the NH ability outweighs the LoG ones as there doesn't seem to be enough units in a 1k meeting engagement to get off enough Bravery Bombs? The added bonus of gravesites does seem tempting tho? And i do also have a Legion of Nagash army i can pull units from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaranis Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Points are starting to get uploaded ! This is not a drill ! So far Beasts of Chaos and Maggotkin have been updated, as well as a few Erratas. Namely, all the "6s to hit" abilities have been changed to "unmodified roll of 6" to keep up with the latest changes to the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thamalys Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 They just uploaded an Errata for Nurgle, with (new? No idea!) points for quite a few units. Plus, an Errata with respect to basis size, but luckily enough nothing concerning Nighthaunt basing... I wouldn't be that keen to re-base 60 reapers... Oh man, what if we really get some points changes? Let us hope, let it snow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnixLHQ Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 F5, F5, F5, F5... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dudemeister Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 (edited) Legions of Nagash one is online... in japanese 😱 Arkhan, Manfred and Neferata all cost 340 now. Morghasts back to 200. Nagash down to 850. NONE of the Nighthaunt units like Hexwraiths, Tomb Banshees, Cairn Wraiths etc that were in that book received any changes. Oh boy... Can it maybe be that they finally give units points costs depending on which army takes them? So Morghasts 210 for Bonereapers, 200 for LoN and Nighthaunt just everything -75%? 😭 Edited December 16, 2019 by The_Dudemeister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezark_SP Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 31 minutes ago, The_Dudemeister said: Can it maybe be that they finally give units points costs depending on which army takes them? So Morghasts 210 for Bonereapers, 200 for LoN and Nighthaunt just everything -75%? 😭 I certainly hope so. As a Tzeentch player I was really annoyed at the points increase of Enlightened on Discs and the reason given was that they were an auto include in the Beasts of Chaos book over Bullgors and Dragon Ogors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord marcus Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Just starting to build my nighthaunt. Is a heavy chainrasps list good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relic456 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 24 minutes ago, Lord marcus said: Just starting to build my nighthaunt. Is a heavy chainrasps list good? Give us like 24 hours, the points updates are rolling out today and may affect the answer to that question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayul Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 minute ago, relic456 said: Give us like 24 hours, the points updates are rolling out today and may affect the answer to that question. Answer? How do you answer this without any context? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relic456 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Bayul said: Answer? How do you answer this without any context? Not like "here's the definitive answer to your question" kind of answer, just that the relative strength of the entire army could be shifted around so it's difficult to even start the conversation. Obviously more context is required to answer that kind of question. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neck-Romantic Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 F5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaranis Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 It's a real mess. Some FAQs have completely disappeared, some are in the wrong languages, Skaven are in the 40k section. I don't expect it to be fixed until tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord marcus Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 hour ago, relic456 said: Not like "here's the definitive answer to your question" kind of answer, just that the relative strength of the entire army could be shifted around so it's difficult to even start the conversation. Obviously more context is required to answer that kind of question. Context is I'm looking for a casual but wrong list, and I enjoy the chainrasps minis. I was wondering if they are strong in bulk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnixLHQ Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, Lord marcus said: Context is I'm looking for a casual but wrong list, and I enjoy the chainrasps minis. I was wondering if they are strong in bulk Actually, yes. Since they are battleline you'll likely load up on them anyway, and if you have enough for either the Chainguard or The Condemned battalions, then you also have some staying power or swarms of decent attacks, respectively. The others might not admit it but we really live or die by our chainrasps. They are solid objective campers, and with the right buffs they are deadly with their numerous attacks. Short answer: Yeah. Grab the Condemned battalion, pair with a GoS and a KoS on foot, pump a couple CP into that KoS and watch 40+ attacks shred an opponent. Just mind their slow movement and battleshock weaknesses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thamalys Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 10 minutes ago, Lord marcus said: Context is I'm looking for a casual but wrong list, and I enjoy the chainrasps minis. I was wondering if they are strong in bulk Casual but wrong? 😉 That’d be bringing huge blobs of Chainrasps without some support, specifically in the form of heroes. Casual but strong? They are excellent already as they are: 5+ ethereal save, 2 attacks each hitting on 4s wounding on 4s re-rolling failed wound rolls of 1 if you have more than 10 (of course you have more than 10), which also grants you bravery 10. They attack in 2 ranks thanks to the very small bases as well. What do you use them for? Holding objectives, forcing your opponent to a game of attrition. Slow unit, but they do fly. Excellent footprint on the board, if you spread your models 0.9” apart from each other you can cover a lot of ground. Very very cheap indeed, and the regiment discount is fantastic. Problems: in Nighthaunt is very difficult to return models quicker than your opponent kills them. This is especially true with big units of Chainrasps - and, as opposed to Legions of Nagash, once the unit is gone it’s gone. How to make them better: with 240 points and a command point you get a Guardian of Souls and Knight of Shrouds (on foot) whom will have your Rasps (1) hitting on 3s thanks to the Knight command ability (requires some care with positioning the big blob wholly within 12”) (2) wounding on 3s thanks to the in-built ability of the Guardian. Suddenly your Rasps are doing some proper damage, and in a game of attrition that’s what you want (3) returning D6 (+3 with the Guardian bespoke artefact, which is worth taking) back every hero phase IF you manage to cast Spectral Lure via your Guardian of Souls. This is one of the many combos that you can leverage - have a good look at the various Nighthaunt heroes, many of them are support heroes. Personally, I tend to run small units of Rasps as screens - amazingly, sometimes they manage to tag the opponent’s hard-is hitters for longer than a single combat phase. I never use them in big ****** because (a) I can’t be bothered to paint 120 very small models to a decent standard (b) I love Grimghast Reapers too much not to use them instead: you pay so much more for a very simple reason, and that is: is one of the not-so-many units in the entire game that you can use as either a very solid anvil or a rather Killy hammer. A flying one, that moves 8” and flies... In a nutshell: I’m not a huge fan but that’s personal taste. Nighthaunt scan be played as a horde army, and in that case Chainrasps are the way to go. The one thing I’d say to you is: if you have decided to go down this route, go big - no middle ground, get yourself 40 models to start with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnixLHQ Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Azyr has updated with the point changes. No lists, no new battalions, but cheaper models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dudemeister Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 (edited) Lady Olynder and Kurdoss down 20 Briar Queen 150 (had never changed in Azyr even after GHB 19) Black Coach 220 That's it. This is a nightmare. Seeing how other armies got points reductions for more essential models this is technically a shadow nerf for us. I am speechless and will check several times for more updates. It's too hard to believe honestly Edit Little spec of hope. Dolorous Guard and the other new battalions aren't in there even though in warscroll builder they showed up since yesterday. So it might not be fully updated? Edited December 16, 2019 by The_Dudemeister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greasygeek Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said: Azyr has updated with the point changes. No lists, no new battalions, but cheaper models. Which units!!!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnixLHQ Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Comparing Azyr to GHB2019 The Briar Queen was 180, now 150 Kurdoss was 200, now 180 Olynder was 220, now 200 Black Coach was 260, now 220 And that's it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platypus Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 The Briar Queen warband was never updated to 180 in Azyr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neck-Romantic Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 (edited) Ugh. Black Coach to Mourngul discrepancy even worse now. Edited December 16, 2019 by Neck-Romantic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dudemeister Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 (edited) Meanwhile 20 Hearthguard Berzerkers dropped from 480 to 400. Let that sink in! Edited December 16, 2019 by The_Dudemeister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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