AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion

[Archibald]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Double post, but bear with me. This one is about Blightkings.

So I think it's fair to say that a lot of Nurgle players chose the army because they want to run Blightkings. Or at least mortals, whose basic troop is the Blightking. But looking at their current stats, how do you actually make use of them?

Blight Kings are a pretty terrifying unit. They have huge defensive potential and their offense is actually quite decent, too. If I had to name their role, I would probably say "anvil", but they are offensively strong enough that it's probably more correct to call them "tanks". I feel fairly confident that they should be able to take almost any hit and have a good chance of grinding whatever unit attacked them down over a few turns with proper support.

Their weaknesses are that they are very slow in an army that has no real way to buff their movement. They also can't capture points on their own, because they only count as 6 bodies usually. So with that in mind, what is their actual role? I feel like I can't expect them to get into combat turn 1. Maybe not even turn 2 unless the opponent charges them. At that point, I think the game plan of grinding the opponent down over a few turns seems pretty shaky. The game will probably be over before the Blightkings are able to reach their full potential. At the same time, Blightkings alone don't seem ideal when it comes to capturing or holding objectives: Too slow, too expensive, and too few bodies. Even the average monster counting for 5 units when capturing is dangerously close to taking an objective off of a unit of 5 Blightkings at any given moment.

So how do you make use of Blightkings? Is the answer to have a horde unit tag along with them at all times? Like, a bunch of Plague Monks or something? I don't think bringing a mix of Blightkings and Plaguebearers is very good, because Plaguebearers are anvils in their won right, really, and don't need the defensive support from Blightkings. Right now, I don't really know how the Blightkings I have will help me win games. Any ideas?

 

You can use the Glottkin Warscroll Spell to give them +1 wound characteristic, so your Blightkings count as 10.

Or you use Gutrot Spume to come from reserve with up to 3 units of Blightkings. (Or 2 units and a Lord of Plagues for +1 Attack maybe).

Edited December 14, 2021 by Archibald

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

2 minutes ago, Archibald said:

You can use the Glottkin WC Spell to give them +1 wound characteristic, so your Blightkings count as 10.

Or you use Gutrot Spume to come from reserve with up to 3 units of Blightkings. (Or 2 units and a Lord of Plagues for +1 Attack maybe).

I had considered both.

For the Glottkin, the downside from my perspective is that they are 700 points. In my opinion, going even more elite when you are already running a bunch of 250 point Blightking units is a bit questionable. Plus, it still does not help the Blightkings get into position. Considering you can just take 10 Ungors for 70 points, I don't think the Glottkin spell is the best solution to the bodies problem. Although if you are already running the Glottkin, it's cool bonus and fun interaction for sure!

As for Gutrot Spume, I don't think his ambushing ability actually helps Blightkings get into the action any faster, does it? If it's still within 6" of a board edge and at the end of the movement phase, I think in most cases that will put you further away from where you want your Blightkings to be (although possibly into a more strategically interesting position). I have never really used ambush abilities, do you have any experience with how they usually work out? It seems to me like they are useful to put pressure on the opponent from different angles than usual, but I don't think they actually make you get on objectives faster.

[ibel]

7 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Although if you are already running the Glottkin, it's cool bonus and fun interaction for sure!

As for Gutrot Spume, I don't think his ambushing ability actually helps Blightkings get into the action any faster, does it?

Hej the +1 Wound and Count as 2 for Objective Play is a Bonus Right. So this should not be the case u take Glootkin.

Ambush or Dropping (i look at u PutridBlords) is cool and just 1 Unit to have in reserve can make many Players nervous. But jes if the ambusehd Unit is so slow there is no reall thread for the Enemy army.

This is my first list next week:

Allegiance: Nurgle
- Host of Chaos:

Filthbringers

- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line

Leaders
Orgoth Daemonspawn or Blod Rotspawn ?!                    (300)*
Rotbringer Sorcerer (120)*
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of Foulness: Gift of Disease 360
Rotbringer Sorcerer (120)*

- Lore of Foulness: Cloying Rotbringer Sorcerer (120)**

- Lore of Malignance: Blades of Putrefaction –

Lord of Afflictions (210)**

- General
- Command Trait: Overpowering Stench :

 - Artefact: The Splithorn helm
Battleline
20 x Plaguebearers (300)**                         
- Reinforced x 1                                 
10 x Plaguebearers (150)**                         
5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)**                                

5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*                                  
1 x Pusgoyle Blightlords (110)*     

Endless Spells & Invocations
Umbral Spellportal (70)                               

*Warlord
**Battle Regiment

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 148
Drops: 5

What do u think

Orgoht (more tankier better CPCommand Option) or (full casting) on Bloab ?!

[spenson]

Has anyone started to think about a list using the soulscream bridge to deliver the BK closer to the opponent? This could potentially be a solution, especially if we cast it with +3.

Edited December 14, 2021 by spenson

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

24 minutes ago, spenson said:

Has anyone started to think about a list using the soulscream bridge to deliver the BK closer to the opponent? This could potentially be a solution, especially if we cast it with +3.

I like that as an idea. I think it's definitely an option if you have the Rot Coven. At a +3, you should be getting that cast off most of the time. 360 points for the wizards + 70 for the Bridge, though. Oof.

[spenson]

You can also use it with Bloab. Even a +1 is a decent option.

[ibel]

5 minutes ago, spenson said:

Even a +1 is a decent option.

Or u Play against Serras (Slann), Teclics or Nagash (most of the time)  

[Predien]

1 hour ago, ibel said:

Hej the +1 Wound and Count as 2 for Objective Play is a Bonus Right. So this should not be the case u take Glootkin.

Ambush or Dropping (i look at u PutridBlords) is cool and just 1 Unit to have in reserve can make many Players nervous. But jes if the ambusehd Unit is so slow there is no reall thread for the Enemy army.

This is my first list next week:

Allegiance: Nurgle
- Host of Chaos:

Filthbringers

- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line

Leaders
Orgoth Daemonspawn or Blod Rotspawn ?!                    (300)*
Rotbringer Sorcerer (120)*
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of Foulness: Gift of Disease 360
Rotbringer Sorcerer (120)*

 

- Lore of Foulness: Cloying Rotbringer Sorcerer (120)**

 

- Lore of Malignance: Blades of Putrefaction –

 

Lord of Afflictions (210)**

 

- General
- Command Trait: Overpowering Stench :

 

 - Artefact: The Splithorn helm
Battleline
20 x Plaguebearers (300)**                         
- Reinforced x 1                                 
10 x Plaguebearers (150)**                         
5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)**                                

 

5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*                                  
1 x Pusgoyle Blightlords (110)*     

 

Endless Spells & Invocations
Umbral Spellportal (70)                               
 

 

*Warlord
**Battle Regiment

 

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 148
Drops: 5

What do u think

Orgoht (more tankier better CPCommand Option) or (full casting) on Bloab ?!

Hey there! I'm into this list. I'm also stuck on Bloab or Orghott (going to buy another kit to run both of them at some point) but with how you've built this I'd go with Orghott for some hammer action. You've got 4 spells and 4 unbinds from the sorc's which is good. You've got a really tanky general and you've got some bodies on the table. I think it's worth play testing for sure. When you get a couple of reps in with it report back!

[Grimrock]

3 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

So how do you make use of Blightkings? Is the answer to have a horde unit tag along with them at all times? Like, a bunch of Plague Monks or something? I don't think bringing a mix of Blightkings and Plaguebearers is very good, because Plaguebearers are anvils in their won right, really, and don't need the defensive support from Blightkings. Right now, I don't really know how the Blightkings I have will help me win games. Any ideas?

 

I think you're underestimating the combat potential of the kings to an extent. Sure they won't usually kill off a deathstar unit or a big monster hero, but anything less is fair game. 25 attacks, 3/3/-1/1 is an excellent profile for battleline and that's before you take into account the pile of mortal wounds they kick out with disease and Relentless Attackers. Plaguebearers are pure anvils, but the combination of offense and defense on the kings makes them something different.

From my own games and the ones I've watched it seems like blight kings are excellent bullies. The combination of high resilience and good offense means your opponent is going to want to avoid them the majority of the time, giving them a wide berth on the table to avoid getting charged and only engaging if they have to. That allows the kings to run up and zone off large portions of the table in a way that plaguebearers can't (because no one is afraid of plaguebearers). When they do get to an objective the opponent will be forced to commit resources to taking it back but if they just toss small units out the kings will annihilate them. The 5+ ward forces your opponent to overcommit to guarantee the kings don't survive. Being able to dictate how your opponent plays (zoning off areas of the table, forcing them to over commit) is a powerful tool in the game and I think is worth having one or two units around for. 

 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

10 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

I think you're underestimating the combat potential of the kings to an extent. Sure they won't usually kill off a deathstar unit or a big monster hero, but anything less is fair game. 25 attacks, 3/3/-1/1 is an excellent profile for battleline and that's before you take into account the pile of mortal wounds they kick out with disease and Relentless Attackers. Plaguebearers are pure anvils, but the combination of offense and defense on the kings makes them something different.

From my own games and the ones I've watched it seems like blight kings are excellent bullies. The combination of high resilience and good offense means your opponent is going to want to avoid them the majority of the time, giving them a wide berth on the table to avoid getting charged and only engaging if they have to. That allows the kings to run up and zone off large portions of the table in a way that plaguebearers can't (because no one is afraid of plaguebearers). When they do get to an objective the opponent will be forced to commit resources to taking it back but if they just toss small units out the kings will annihilate them. The 5+ ward forces your opponent to overcommit to guarantee the kings don't survive. Being able to dictate how your opponent plays (zoning off areas of the table, forcing them to over commit) is a powerful tool in the game and I think is worth having one or two units around for. 

 

That's some really nice perspective, thanks! I was aware of the offensive potential of Blightkings when I made my post. The numbers look pretty good: ~11 rend -1 damage from regular attacks, 3-4 disease points per combat and some number of mortals from Relentless Attackers, all without any buffs. That's certainly a threat, and it's what I had in mind when I said I was thinking of them as tanks. They definitely can take a hit and counter-punch.

I think I was kind of stuck in the mind set of trying to figure out a way of bringing their stats to bear quickly. They are really good both defensively and offensively, but they are just so hard to deliver. I thought it would be too easy for the opponent to avoid them. But you are right, that can be a strength, too! Makes me wonder if bringing a few Plagueclaws is worth it, kind of like the Mortek Guard/Crawler strategy OBR used to use: Bring a unit your opponent wants to avoid, but also bring enough long-range shooting to force them to advance.

But I think your reply also affirms the idea for me that Blightkings can't be your primary infantry. It seems to me like they are more suited to a support role while other troops do the "work" of capturing objectives.

[Sangfroid]

I’ve spent years playing with Brutes who are also 4” move units (I understand that Ironjawz have had a number of iterations to get extra speed with Mighty destroyers but the basic premise is the same 4” move) 10” turn one movement gets them to pretty much the middle of the table so on or around most battleplans objective If anything you will move them to just inside 6” to maximise distance from opponent so they have to either attack you or themselves sneak on to the other side of the objective with more models which then puts them in your threat range anyway. The way these units excel is by using your big nasty pieces (glottkin,GUO, Orghotts etc…) to force your opponent to use their command points whether this be redeploy or all out defence,  then when it comes around to BKs their rend -1 really has an effect. You have to pick the right targets if you want to use them offensively they aren’t supposed to be attacking Archaon they are there to clean out your opponents battleline and ranged units, smaller heroes and mid-tier monsters (4+ save 12 wound things) so use them as bullies putting them into situations where it’s unlikely that the damage back if attacked first will kill a BK but when you fight your tearing them a new one. Combos with these like no command abilities in 7” command trait will shine your hit a unit hard and if it’s not dead it’s running away after disease etc… you want them in this role so your opponent is forced to redirect their nasty units to deal with them (or move his weak units well away from them) either way you are controlling what they are doing. 

I think what makes them 250 as opposed to 160 (Brutes) is that they not only offer the same offensive capabilities they are also useful as a defensive piece too, give them mystic shield and all out defence and put them into almost anything in the game and it’s unlikely they will die in one round of combat. This 3+ save against rend -1 OR 4+ against rend -2 and then the 5++ is really good and as a result you maybe able to just stop an opponent for 2 or 3 turns (Or force them to retreat which is basically doing nothing anyway) and at the same time have some fight and mortal wounds back on them. 
 

it’s possible to run and army of blight kings (20 ish) but from the leaks so far I’m leaning towards 10 in an army as the sweet spot (If you equate that too brutes that’s usually 15-20) either as 2x5 or one mega unit of 10. Even with 1” reach you should be able to get 7 or 8 into combat with clever positioning. The 2x5 gives you flexibility but the 10 gives you that target for mystic shield and all out defence to ruin someone’s day (While your other units bob around and score and kill as they wish)

 

all of this applies to pusgoyles too they are a bit less offensive and less total wounds but have better movement and you need to do 8 wounds after saves and ward save to diminish their capability even 20 witches with 3a each (Unbuffed) wouldn’t on average be able to kill one in a single round of combat. 
 

That’s how I seem both units being used at least from the leaks so far can’t wait to get my hands on the book properly!

[IRRecio]

10 hours ago, Zplash said:

Nice report thank you! 

Just one small hint. LOA is no longer daemon and so you can't play subfactions befouling host if he is your general... Sadly, I was planning to do that too. 

Oh no! didn't realize he lost the daemon keyword. I will probably run Droning Guard then because I do not see blessed sons as worth it. Thanks for the heads up!

Edit: Actually will probably run Blessed Sons. Droning Guard is only plaguebearer flies and I want pusgoyles in deepstrike 

Edited December 14, 2021 by IRRecio
Misread subfaction

[Hannibal]

On 12/13/2021 at 4:17 PM, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

What the whole Nurgle range seems to lack is access to cheap bodies. Every unit in the book is a hugely tanky mega-anvil, but none have any capture pressure. The best unit is probably Plaguebearers, but even they are not in that ~100 point for 10 range you want for chaff. I suppose the solution to this are coalition units. You can pull in cheap bodies like Plague Monks, Ungors, Marauders and Warcry cultists to help with the body problem. Sucks if you want to play pure Maggotkin, but the option is there.

IMO the best chaff unit you can get is a Chaos Warhounds. 10 for 80 points is a steal! They are fast, provide big bases and auto run 6". Really, they are great!

 

On 12/13/2021 at 4:17 PM, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

 It seems to me that investing in some kind of movement shennenigans is a must. Either a Lord of Afflictions general,

LoAffkictions always was one of the best units in faction. Fast and able to use as a summon rod. Good attacks too.

 

On 12/13/2021 at 4:17 PM, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I think the army probably wants to build low drops.

I think that we NEED low drops because of our slow movement. Nothing is worse that being pinned in our deployment zone / half of the board first turn.

 

 

[Tizianolol]

Guys I have 2 question about epidemius.

- his disease you can add to him, other then give him rerolls, are considered like nurgle disease ( on 4+ mw on him?)

- immagine I wanna reroll a casting , with 1 disease i reroll 2d6 or only 1d6? If only 1d6 can I use 2 disease per turn? Thx a lot!:)

[ibel]

4 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

- his disease you can add to him, other then give him rerolls, are considered like nurgle disease ( on 4+ mw on him?)

This means (i read it so) u can ReRoll the Disease Roll with u roll for a enemey Modell.

lets say there is a enemy Hero you had 2 Wounds left and 3 Diesease Tokens and u just roll ONE 4+, than u can take ONE of the 7 dice again.

But with the Castroll i dont know, Maybe a case for FAQ.

I dont know if he is cost effeicent because the 7 ReRolls are for the whole game.... i dont know. I think most of the Times i would take a "casual" Hero for another cast or a Artefakt, but i dont really know.

[Tizianolol]

Are we sure its rerolls are for the whole game? Warscroll says : " at the start of your hero phase" its seems every hero phase! Maybe we need faqs!

[ibel]

52 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Are we sure its rerolls are for the whole game? Warscroll says : " at the start of your hero phase" its seems every hero phase! Maybe we need faqs

U really Maybe Right. Okay that could be Interressting !

If we build a Army lets say

GUO

EPI

Horticus

3x20 PLaguebearer

in the 2 TreeHost… mhmm

[frostfire]

13 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

- immagine I wanna reroll a casting , with 1 disease i reroll 2d6 or only 1d6? If only 1d6 can I use 2 disease per turn? Thx a lot!:)

Reroll casting means you reroll both dice.

[Predien]

On 12/14/2021 at 1:52 PM, IRRecio said:

Oh no! didn't realize he lost the daemon keyword. I will probably run Droning Guard then because I do not see blessed sons as worth it. Thanks for the heads up!

Edit: Actually will probably run Blessed Sons. Droning Guard is only plaguebearer flies and I want pusgoyles in deepstrike 

You could bring Rotigus and get around that rule. The wording on "Befouling Host" says you have to have a Daemon general in your army. Rotigus has the Warmaster trait making him a general even if he's not picked to be the general in a Maggotkin of Nurgle army. Just something to think about!

[Gemzo]

Before the battletome came out, an all-flying list is what got me interested in Nurgle and I was waiting to see if it would be legal/viable in the new battletome.  It's exciting to see there's a few different options.  I haven't played that many games of 3rd Ed and the ones I have played have mostly been with Giants. 

As a starting point, it looks like you could have up to:

2x Lord of Affliction

3x Pair of Pusgoyles

1 Single Pusgoyle

4x Units of Drones

 

That's 1990 points. I haven't really thought about which of the two flying factions might be better, artifacts, or battalions. What do you think?  If you're creating an all-flying Nurgle army, how would you do it?

[underdog6750]

Been away from the hobby for a few months. Ended up with covid and isolating, decided I would paint up some old models.

These were the only unpainted maggotkin I had lying around so got these done over the past 2 days. Waiting on the new book before I make any additional purchases, bit I forgot how much fun painting is!

Just wanted to share as I am rather pleased with the results.

[Wulfenone]

Stunning, well done encapsulates the feeling the Rot and Decay.

[ibel]

9 hours ago, Gemzo said:

That's 1990 points. I haven't really thought about which of the two flying factions might be better, artifacts, or battalions. What do you think?  If you're creating an all-flying Nurgle army, how would you do it

I think u cant make "Flyer" Batteline, so u Need 3x10 Plaguebearer for Batteline at Minimum Cost.

Just for everybody: The Warhammer App was Updated. The New Warscrolls are in !!

[Jazzbeaux]

From this screen shot you can make Pusgoyle Blightlords Battleline if you make a Drowned Men army, or Lord of Afflictions General.  So you can have an all flying army!

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Jazzbeaux
Removed points details.

[Bululu]

Hi mates, i would like some help. If someone got the building instructions of the glottkin and can share me some photos of them i would be glad thanks in advance!