AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[Sinfullyvannila]

On 11/11/2022 at 4:55 PM, Bayul said:

Does anybody remember if the warscrolls from the Arcane Cataclysm set are identical to the present battletome?

edit: And does a box of 20 Acolytes include 2x complete units? I'll only need 10 and would like to sell the other half.

Its 2 complete units but IIRC theres only 6 sets of dual weapons.

[Sinfullyvannila]

On 11/9/2022 at 7:31 AM, Jabbuk said:

For Tzaangors I do am using double blades

If you're fighting anything with a 4+ or better save they really need armor debuffs support. We got Arcane Suggestion and the Herald on Foot's warscroll spells for that.

[MitGas]

11 hours ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

If you're fighting anything with a 4+ or better save they really need armor debuffs support. We got Arcane Suggestion and the Herald on Foot's warscroll spells for that.

Very good point indeed! 👍

[Duke of Mousillon]

Anyone gotten around to try those Tzaangors with a second row of Enlightened behind to discourage charging them with the Enlightened ability of turning off commands? 

[Duke of Mousillon]

On 11/12/2022 at 1:41 PM, MitGas said:

They certainly messed that up for us. One can only hope we‘ll get proper warriors, maybe with a new Fatemaster…

The most laughable thing is after us losing proper coalition rules and not giving us mortal tzeentch units in our book, they added insult to injury:

The new daemon prince. The one you can get into your mono god armies over the coalition rules as marked. Who now gets his own command ability depending on his mark. Yeah. Tzeentch can theoretically take him. His tzeentch command ability inside of the tzeenrch army is borderline useless because it refers to a spell lore in the StD book and thus its part of allegiance abilities we are not allowed to use. Bloody shame.

[MitGas]

14 minutes ago, Duke of Mousillon said:

The most laughable thing is after us losing proper coalition rules and not giving us mortal tzeentch units in our book, they added insult to injury:

The new daemon prince. The one you can get into your mono god armies over the coalition rules as marked. Who now gets his own command ability depending on his mark. Yeah. Tzeentch can theoretically take him. His tzeentch command ability inside of the tzeenrch army is borderline useless because it refers to a spell lore in the StD book and thus its part of allegiance abilities we are not allowed to use. Bloody shame.

I think the Sorc Lord on manticore is still a decent hero to take… daemon princes aren‘t exactly great anyways, so I can live with not using one despite the new cooler mini. 
 

I‘m just sad we can‘t push our mortal side of things more unless I misunderstood something. It‘s really time to get our own Chaos Warrior/Chosen equivalent 😎

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

I'd love to see heavily armored Tzeentch warriors. I get some of the arguments against it, but I also have a soft spot for that aesthetic. I played a Chosen in Warhammer Online back in the day, and the Tzeentch-themed armor that class got was baller.

[Duke of Mousillon]

@RocketPropelledGrenade smth I could see is having cav from StD in tzeentch as a fast hitting unit? You take Knights. A Chaos Sorcerer on foot to buff them and a Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount to give them Strike first. That is something I could see myself playing around with that. Would be a reasonable alternative to using Enlgihtened on Disc. They would be a fast unit that does not explode. 

I would love to use a Tzeentch Daemon Prince but as long as he does not get his full heroic action I dont know about that. (Edit: In addition to the aesthetics of a daemon prince I would like to try out his battleshock immunity on large tzaangor blobs)

I just do not see myself using Chaos Warriors. Maybe someday but right now if I want a slow tanky unit sitting on an objective? Pink Horrors. 30 points more but they fill a battleline slot.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Duke of Mousillon

[Jabbuk]

7 hours ago, Duke of Mousillon said:

@RocketPropelledGrenade smth I could see is having cav from StD in tzeentch as a fast hitting unit? You take Knights. A Chaos Sorcerer on foot to buff them and a Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount to give them Strike first. That is something I could see myself playing around with that. Would be a reasonable alternative to using Enlgihtened on Disc. They would be a fast unit that does not explode. 

I would love to use a Tzeentch Daemon Prince but as long as he does not get his full heroic action I dont know about that. (Edit: In addition to the aesthetics of a daemon prince I would like to try out his battleshock immunity on large tzaangor blobs)

I just do not see myself using Chaos Warriors. Maybe someday but right now if I want a slow tanky unit sitting on an objective? Pink Horrors. 30 points more but they fill a battleline slot.

Wouldn't that Chaos fast block you're talking about close to Krondspine? He brings so much to the army and even increases magic supremacy a little. I gotta say, besides all the trash talk about it, it's still a unit i find thematic for Tzeentch. This faction that worships magic that summoned this entity to fight for them. I really like it.

[Malakithe]

Is kinda sad how they are doing Chaos overall in AoS. 40k is doing much better with possible soup options.

[Duke of Mousillon]

8 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

Wouldn't that Chaos fast block you're talking about close to Krondspine?

There is a reason why Krondspine showed up in every list. 5 Knights buffed and striking first would most likely reduce the Incarnates level by 1. Thats all they can do. 

I would probably agree that summoning that monster would be flavourful for a wizard faction but with the goal in mind to have a mortal side to our army list Krondspine does not help that effort.

[MitGas]

Am I missing something? The Daemon Prince -despite the cool new model- is utter trash to me. 10 wounds, weak profile… what‘s to like there? 🤔
 

I mean knights are great now (not sure Enlightened aren‘t still better overall though unless you build around the knights), chosen can be pretty decent due to their range, warriors are somewhat viable… I think Varanguard could be good now actually… but DPs? They seem like one of the biggest losers. 
 

snakemen seem interesting. Sucks that Cypher Lords are still ******. 
 

Regarding Tzeentch warriors aesthetics: I‘d like them to wear cool armor but have more cloth on them than most other Chaos warriors. E.g. loincloths, maybe trousers with metal boots instead of fully armored legs, maybe a leather/cloth belly area (despite it being stupid) but it would get the wizard warrior look across. You know, armor-wise more like Chosen/Varanguard but a lot more regal. I always thought Exdeath from Final Fantasy was a decent starting point…

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by MitGas
Spelling

[Sinfullyvannila]

24 minutes ago, MitGas said:

what‘s to like there? 🤔
 

Looks like just really good command traits which doesn't help the bespoke god factions.

[MitGas]

30 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

Looks like just really good command traits which doesn't help the bespoke god factions.

Yeah, I can see some worth in S2D but for us… it‘s a big meh unfortunately. 🤔

[Duke of Mousillon]

Oh yeah. He would not be great without his command traits. Definetly not. But if his heroic action ability with the spell would work in our army he would be able to cast Binding Damnation. So he would be interesting to put next to a 30 man Tzaangor unit. He gives out an immune to battleshock aura and would have a strike last spell. Would at least be interesting to try out in that case. 

Furthermore i just love Daemon Princes. Having one Daemon Prince in an army just feels so thematic. 

[Malakithe]

I like using DPs in 40k but the AoS version is just...bleh

[GunslingerOy]

How many ways to make spawn now in this book? Three? Magistrate spell, endless spell, vortex beast allied in?

[Sinfullyvannila]

1 hour ago, GunslingerOy said:

How many ways to make spawn now in this book? Three? Magistrate spell, endless spell, vortex beast allied in?

The Changeblade artifact but its awful.

[Landohammer]

Hey everyone, I am taking a meme list to a tournament in two weeks. See below for the first draft.

Basically the goal is overwhelm the enemy with Enlightened while summoning a Lord of Change as early as possible. (potentially turn 1 but likely turn 2)

I have tested out various version of the list (with only 3 squads of enlightened) and it has done pretty well. Beating new ogors twice and losing to a super hard nurgle fly spam list by 1 point. 

The biggest weakness is the fluxmaster getting sniped early, so I am considering dropping 3 enlightened for a second character. (I am actually considering Sigvald just for the LOLs.) Any thoughts? Should be fun either way

 

Guild of Summoners

Flux master (general)

-Daemonspark

-Arcane Tome

10 Kairic Acolytes

10 Kairic Acolytes

10 Kairic Acolytes

6 Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs

6 Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs

6 Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs

6 Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs

[angrycontra]

9 hours ago, Landohammer said:

Hey everyone, I am taking a meme list to a tournament in two weeks. See below for the first draft.

Basically the goal is overwhelm the enemy with Enlightened while summoning a Lord of Change as early as possible. (potentially turn 1 but likely turn 2)

I have tested out various version of the list (with only 3 squads of enlightened) and it has done pretty well. Beating new ogors twice and losing to a super hard nurgle fly spam list by 1 point. 

The biggest weakness is the fluxmaster getting sniped early, so I am considering dropping 3 enlightened for a second character. (I am actually considering Sigvald just for the LOLs.) Any thoughts? Should be fun either way

 

Guild of Summoners

Flux master (general)

-Daemonspark

-Arcane Tome

10 Kairic Acolytes

10 Kairic Acolytes

10 Kairic Acolytes

6 Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs

6 Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs

6 Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs

6 Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs

Flux master can't summon loc in guild of summoners. Must be Arcanite wizard hero, so kairic acolytes don't work either 

[Landohammer]

6 hours ago, angrycontra said:

Flux master can't summon loc in guild of summoners. Must be Arcanite wizard hero, so kairic acolytes don't work either 

Dang. Great catch. I have been using host arcanum for all my practice games and only switched to Guild for the new draft. Completely missed that keyword in the sub faction.  Guess I need another hero option! Thanks!

 

[Jabbuk]

41 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

Dang. Great catch. I have been using host arcanum for all my practice games and only switched to Guild for the new draft. Completely missed that keyword in the sub faction.  Guess I need another hero option! Thanks!

 

I feel like having only 1 hero makes this list super dangerous to play. If your goal is to summon a LoC asap, I'd strongly consider adding another 2 cast wizard yeah.

[Landohammer]

46 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

I feel like having only 1 hero makes this list super dangerous to play. If your goal is to summon a LoC asap, I'd strongly consider adding another 2 cast wizard yeah.

You are absolutely correct, no doubt. But if I take another hero it means I have to take less enlightened! And the meme must be maintained at all costs!

I think subbing in a Tzaangor Shaman/Magister + Tome of eyes or maybe a curseling (if I can get one in time) will do the trick. 

Demonspark is the best summoning value but since only demons can take it, Cult Demagogue seems like it could generate some decent fate points if I burn destiny dice to guarantee doubles. (Or fish for them with tome rerolls)

 

[Jabbuk]

On 11/24/2022 at 8:49 AM, Landohammer said:

You are absolutely correct, no doubt. But if I take another hero it means I have to take less enlightened! And the meme must be maintained at all costs!

I think subbing in a Tzaangor Shaman/Magister + Tome of eyes or maybe a curseling (if I can get one in time) will do the trick. 

Demonspark is the best summoning value but since only demons can take it, Cult Demagogue seems like it could generate some decent fate points if I burn destiny dice to guarantee doubles. (Or fish for them with tome rerolls)

 

Don't forget that Demagogue has been FAQ'ed, it is now only the first spell. I dunno if people still feel it is da bomb or if it lost too much value.

[Landohammer]

On 11/25/2022 at 4:27 PM, Jabbuk said:

Don't forget that Demagogue has been FAQ'ed, it is now only the first spell. I dunno if people still feel it is da bomb or if it lost too much value.

The version I was reading in the app is updated, so yea I think I am reading it right. Admittedly its nothing crazy, but in my practice games it seemed like a good way to use up the 2's or 3's in your destiny dice pool (assuming you have two of either). Because if you use two 2's it still goes off, generates 2 fate points, and cant be unbound. I found its a great way to force Arcane Suggestion through. Its also the only option available to arcanites for additional fate point production.  

I think the enlightened on disc warscroll is a solid value. So even though the "all flying chicken" list is a bit of a joke and far from optimized, I think it may surprise some folks. The tourney is on sunday and I have one practice game between now and then. I will let yall know how it goes. 

Side rant: One thing I find "un-fun" about tzeentch is dumping a lot of points into magic just to get paired vs a faction who can absolutely shut it down or shrug it off. (slaans, kroak, teclis, nagash, dragons, certain SBG builds, etc). So I always avoid going to heavy into heroes. Though admittedly only taking 1 is asking for trouble 🤣