AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Charleston]

14 hours ago, Skarband said:

Hi did someone use skullreapers spam list? 

Define Spam List? 20+ Models? I doubt it. But a buffed unit of 10 can really shine quite easy with tons of hits and potential mortals. They don't need much support, rather propper targets that provide them the rerolls. To build a spam list the usual Bloodsecrator and Bloodstroker are a solid support choice, especially as latter one helps them to land a load of save rolls for the opponent to roll.. Also the "ignore -1 rend" battalion is really solid to improve durability. Brozen Flesh Prayer for +1 to save is another good option to keep them around for longer, meanwhile killing frenzy isn't that necessary. Sadly we lack a propper way to give them +1 Rend which would be a huge improvement.

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

I’ve never paid much attention to Archaon lists as he fell under model I never expected to own.  But the rest of Zoom League surprised me with a NIB version for running the two games a week over Zoom fir last year plus.  Don’t know where to start.  Any advise re: Mortals?  Even better anyway to fit into Khorne Beast Brisket?

[Lord Krungharr]

Happy to be back on the Skull Train! 

I picked up 33 Blood Warriors, the Skull Altar, and Judgements, plus some bits to make a couple more Daemon Princes once I find bodies.  I also have 1 ready Daemon Prince, 2 Bloodsecrators, 2 Slaughterpriests, Skar Bloodwrath and a Bloodstoker, plus 10 Skullreapers on the workbench.  All in addition to Brass Despoilers Bullgors if they fit anywhere, and allied Mindstealer Sphiranxes.

I think even if tome battalions go by the wayside in v3.0, I should still have a solid core army.  

[Charleston]

On 6/4/2021 at 1:26 AM, Charleston said:

Define Spam List? 20+ Models? I doubt it. But a buffed unit of 10 can really shine quite easy with tons of hits and potential mortals. They don't need much support, rather propper targets that provide them the rerolls. To build a spam list the usual Bloodsecrator and Bloodstroker are a solid support choice, especially as latter one helps them to land a load of save rolls for the opponent to roll.. Also the "ignore -1 rend" battalion is really solid to improve durability. Brozen Flesh Prayer for +1 to save is another good option to keep them around for longer, meanwhile killing frenzy isn't that necessary. Sadly we lack a propper way to give them +1 Rend which would be a huge improvement.

Okay, nevermind, with the new coherency rules here is my updated tought on this topic:

-Never play more than 10. You would loose too much due to weird coherency reasons. Units of 5 are fine, they don't need much buffs and fit this way easier into the bubbles of wrathmongers or the charge reroll bubbles we have access to.

 

Btw the coherency renders our Juggernaut-Cavallery even more useless then before as we basically have to decide whether we want to loose the good D3 Mortals-charge or of we want to loose half a squad worth of attacks.

Also Bloodreavers lost loads of use as we can't use them as screen-line anymore.  

[LordRhulak]

Flesh hounds might be our best screen now. 100 for five bodies that can be strung out. Wrathmongers might work in 10s but not skullreapers. Also, there seems to be a rumor that prayers will be limited to one a turn. That might hurt depending if judgement are roped into the limit of 1. Chaos spawn for screening teleports look good but bloodreavers are definitly out. The skulls will have a harder time as well. 

With increased MSU in other armies insensate rage thirsters are going to be loving life. 

[Agent of Chaos]

Im very concerned prayers will be limited to 1 per turn. Although strange they now gave 2 generic prayers to every priest. Hopefully Judgements are an exception as, now that enemy priests can banish them, going to be really hard to justify slaughterpriests.

Unless the rules for melee attack range change, units of 10 x bloodwarriors, Bloodletters, Bloodreavers and 6+ skullcrushers/blood crushers will be very tough to use. At least we are well placed to take advantage of an MSU meta; its going to rain bloodtithe

[LordRhulak]

Playing without slaughterpriest would really change the way we play the army. I think that would hit us very hard seeing as they are a staple in almost all khorne lists. Saying that, we are the strongest prayer army in the game so if there is even more emphasis put on prayers, we might have a way to pull ahead there.

 

Edited June 8, 2021 by LordRhulak

[frenk_castle]

This one prayer per turn is a rumour correct? Nothing "confirmed"?

[Lord Krungharr]

18 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Im very concerned prayers will be limited to 1 per turn. Although strange they now gave 2 generic prayers to every priest. Hopefully Judgements are an exception as, now that enemy priests can banish them, going to be really hard to justify slaughterpriests.

Unless the rules for melee attack range change, units of 10 x bloodwarriors, Bloodletters, Bloodreavers and 6+ skullcrushers/blood crushers will be very tough to use. At least we are well placed to take advantage of an MSU meta; its going to rain bloodtithe

******, I just bought the Judgements and made 2 Priests out of my 2 Spawn.  Of course they can still be Spawn, just with an axe and armor.  Still think the Priests will have value, even at 100 points, with 1 prayer.  Tossing out an armor buff and generic CA, desummoning an enemy prayer...

10 Bloodwarriors might still work okay as a tank with the Gorefists though.  But I guess MSU still works for that.  

[Agent of Chaos]

"On the flip side, you really need to think about Battleshock now, as only one unit can benefit from the Inspiring Presence command ability." 

This is a great change. Certainly helps Reapers of Vengeance.

12 hours ago, frenk_castle said:

This one prayer per turn is a rumour correct? Nothing "confirmed"?

It is sort of implied by the first line of the banishing Invocation rule below...

Might mean you've only got one prayer per turn, might mean you lose one prayer slot out of however many you have. Needs clarification. 

3 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

 Still think the Priests will have value, even at 100 points, with 1 prayer.  Tossing out an armor buff and generic CA, desummoning an enemy prayer...

You can only banish an enemy prayer instead of chanting a prayer with that priest.  So that severely limits their usefulness if its a 1 prayer per turn limit. 

Seeing as they introduced 2 generic prayers it would mean a Slaughterpriest would know up to 5 different prayers, in addition to any Judgements, but only be able to pick 1 per hero phase (assuming they didnt banish an invocation). Still unclear if Invocations can be attempted in addition to a prayer so that needs clarifying. 

Slaughterpriests are probably undercosted in AOS2 given they can unbind, chant 2 prayers and a judgement, likely with a free reroll to chant from the altar. This isnt an issue currently because Khorne as a whole is not a strong faction and has substantial limitations such as minimal ranged damage, average movement, no teleport, etc.

I fear that slaughterpriests will stay at 100, or even become more expensive, but be much worse off if its only 1 prayer/turn. Yes they can issue generic commands but that isnt unique to them. 

 

[Lord Krungharr]

By that wording I would expect that invocations and prayers will be separate things; hoping that's the case at least AND that they don't go up in points.

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

1 hour ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Seeing as they introduced 2 generic prayers it would mean a Slaughterpriest would know up to 5 different prayers, in addition to any Judgements, but only be able to pick 1 per hero phase (assuming they didnt banish an invocation).

Really hoping it isn’t this but you did see a change toward this with Morathi if I recall correctly?

[Grimrock]

Well considering that Khorne has had the best "wizards" in the game for quite some time it probably makes sense for them to nerf prayers. On the plus side our best combat prayers (+1 to hit and +1 to save) are now available via command abilities, so it might not be quite so terrible. Even then in the short term it looks like a huge nerf to the faction when combined with the hits taken through new coherency rules and the various buffs to ranged units. In the long term I'm hopeful it'll mean Khorne gets a significant improvement in the next battletome. Maybe we'll move away from being so buff reliant and towards having warscrolls that properly represent the combat monsters we're portrayed as in the fluff. 

[Agent of Chaos]

@Beer & Pretzels Gamer correct; DOK priests were limited to one prayer per turn. It was particularly obnoxious in DOK because they were a top tier faction. Was less of a problem in Khorne as, although Slaughterpriests were amazing value for their points, the faction as a whole was very mid-tier. 

@Grimrock Good point about the generic command abilities making up for the lost prayers. We can only hope for some scroll rewrites and/or stronger allegiance abilities.

Can't tie up ranged units with chaff as they will shoot them to pieces on approach.

Judgments, which were already swingy, can now be banished.

Slaughterpriests and battalions were carrying mortal khorne; now what does it have? 

The Daemon Locus to reroll 1's to hit is more valuable given its no longer a command ability so thats something. 

But everything on a 32mm base is now hard to use in units of 10 or more. Reavers cant screen as effectively. Letters and Warriors get less attacks in.

Looking like a rough edition so far...

[Lord Krungharr]

Awesome!  Don't we all love a challenge

 

 

[LordRhulak]

Interested to see if they'll hint at something when they do they're faction focus for Khorne. It probably won't be much, but maybe they'll give us a hint about the new battletome?

[frenk_castle]

As much as I would love new battletome early given how in both AoS and 40k later battletomes had a lot of advantages over early books seems Khorne would be better served if battletome is not here soon.

[Roark]

This unit cohesion business is weirding me out. At face value, it seems like any army without good or substantial 25mm base units is at a crushing disadvantage, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see eh...

[Agent of Chaos]

@Roark If weapon ranges are changed on warscrolls then it might be OK. 2" reach bloodletters with their giant 2 hand swords makes sense and makes them a viable unit again.

However I dont see blood warriors or reavers getting a 2" reach so yeah; sucks if you dont have great 25mm based infantry. 

Is marauder spam the answer... again?

[Perturbato]

i don't know what i'm more afraid of ... having our bloodreavers less usefull or they rebase it to 25 mm ..  25mm base would be cool but i would be devastated to rebase thoses 40 f*ckers i have !

 

But we can still use bloodreavers as screen line if we us the triangle-extremity solution

o8oooo8o      or       8oooooo8    but if we have any damage the unit is mainly destroyed. When i think about it we were not very counting on our bloodreavers to stay for a while either : they need to tag objectives and screen and that's all.

 

For the slaughterpriest i'm very stressed too because it is a very good unit currently and i would be sorry to see it decrased even if there is some explanation. Don't you make a diference between prayers (warcroll prayers, smite or banish) and khorne benedictions ? If we are only allowed to make one prayer per turn .. we would still be allowed to chant khorne benedictions arn't we ? And then one invocation in total ? Where is the rumor from only one prey coming from ?

Maybe the possibility of one invocation getting disband result of the disapearance of the roll at the end of the round to check if the judgement stays ?

Maybe they will give the ability for bloodsocker to buff EVERY khorne units instead of just mortals ?

Khorne priesthood hegemony was is a good identity for bloodbound armies ..

 

For all the juggernaut cavalry (daemon and mortal) i guess they will be switched to 5-10 models per unit.

[Zamik]

8 hours ago, Perturbato said:

For the slaughterpriest i'm very stressed too because it is a very good unit currently and i would be sorry to see it decrased even if there is some explanation. Don't you make a diference between prayers (warcroll prayers, smite or banish) and khorne benedictions ? If we are only allowed to make one prayer per turn .. we would still be allowed to chant khorne benedictions arn't we ? And then one invocation in total ? Where is the rumor from only one prey coming from ?

Maybe the possibility of one invocation getting disband result of the disapearance of the roll at the end of the round to check if the judgement stays ?

Maybe they will give the ability for bloodsocker to buff EVERY khorne units instead of just mortals ?

Khorne priesthood hegemony was is a good identity for bloodbound armies ..

With the new Heroic actions and command abilities, I'm hoping that'll actually take some of the pressure off Slaughterpriests--and the pressure to take a lot of them. And yes I really want the Bloodstoker to buff everyone--at the very least Khorgoraths! I'd love to see the Bloodstoker become some sort of beastmaster who could give additional buffs to monsters and other beastly types.

[Grimrock]

13 hours ago, Roark said:

This unit cohesion business is weirding me out. At face value, it seems like any army without good or substantial 25mm base units is at a crushing disadvantage, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see eh...

Yeah I'm hoping they add in a variation of 40k's melee range rule to compensate. Something like you're in range of an enemy if you're within a half inch of a model from your unit that is in range of an enemy. If not then... well I guess we'll just have to see how it goes. At least we do have access to marauders.

For reavers, I was thinking that we could still use them to screen using the dog bone formation (straight line with a triangle on each end). It's risky because a single casualty guarantees you lose half your unit, but if you're up against a primarily melee army it won't matter much. Against melee if reavers are attacked they're pretty much guaranteed to get wiped anyway, so might as well just set them up for the best screen. Either that or we just migrate to flesh hounds. 30 more points for a better save, more attacks, faster, better frontage for screening when turned sideways, and a dispel/unbind thrown in for good measure. As long as the battalion rules are accurate the only real downside is they look ridiculous turned sideways. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Grimrock

[Lord Krungharr]

3 hours ago, Zamik said:

With the new Heroic actions and command abilities, I'm hoping that'll actually take some of the pressure off Slaughterpriests--and the pressure to take a lot of them. And yes I really want the Bloodstoker to buff everyone--at the very least Khorgoraths! I'd love to see the Bloodstoker become some sort of beastmaster who could give additional buffs to monsters and other beastly types.

I remember the good old days when the Stoker could stoke anyone, including Skarbrand!  Perhaps they could get the universal effect back with a tradeoff....roll a D6, and on a 1 the unit gets angry and strikes back at the Bloodstoker and does a MW, but on a 2+ they are whipped to a frenzy.  Seems fair to me.  

[Roark]

19 hours ago, Perturbato said:

i don't know what i'm more afraid of ... having our bloodreavers less usefull or they rebase it to 25 mm ..  25mm base would be cool but i would be devastated to rebase thoses 40 f*ckers i have !

Don't worry, they won't resize their bases. The cannibal boys don't even fit on 25s.

[Perturbato]

3 hours ago, Roark said:

Don't worry, they won't resize their bases. The cannibal boys don't even fit on 25s.

i hope they loose their uselessness